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Contrary to popular opinion here, Trump believes he can directly fire Mueller

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Kneecap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
304
People here don't seem to read even the posts in short threads, so I present this thread to help some of you.

Corroboration:
Time
President Trump Believes He Has the Power to Fire Robert Mueller, White House Says

The Hill
White House: Trump believes he has power to fire Mueller

This belief is based on the "strong version" of the Unitary Executive Theory and was first used by Reagan. Originally only supported at the Supreme Court in by a dissent by Justice Scalia, the Supreme Court has moved closer to the strong version (which would support Trump) in a recent case.

Of late, Allen Alan Dershowitz has been informally advising Trump and I believe he is an advocate of the strong version of this theory.

Wikipedia has an article on the Unitary Executive Theory..
 
NullPointer

NullPointer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,170
Mars
He has the power to achieve that end result, so it doesn't really matter much whether he believes he can do it directly rather than in a few steps.
 
konka

konka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,856
User banned (2 days): calling another user a nazi.
Kneecap may be a nazi? I think I have the authority to say it.
 
LukeOP

LukeOP

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,749
The whole point of unitary executive is to be able to hold the individual to greater scrutiny and criminality, not let them fucking be immune to it.

Might well make the President a King if this is how people interpret unitary executive.
 

Shroki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,910
Trump knows he can't directly fire him, he's just a belligerent idiot who will deny the idea that there's something he can't do.

You can tell because there's smoke around firing Rosenstein. The way to fire Mueller has always been to remove Rosenstein and install a crony.
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,584
What exactly is contrary here? I think people generally agree that the Trump believes he can fire Mueller. I haven't seen anybody argue that he doesn't believe that. I don't you know what the word contrary means.
 
TangoAlphaLima

TangoAlphaLima

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,799
Kneecap said:
This belief is based on the "strong version" of the Unitary Executive Theory and was first used by Reagan. Originally only supported at the Supreme Court in by a dissent by Justice Scalia, the Supreme Court has moved closer to the strong version (which would support Trump) in a recent case.

Of late, Allen Alan Dershowitz has been informally advising Trump and I believe he is an advocate of the strong version of this theory.

Wikipedia has an article on the Unitary Executive Theory..
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Neither of your links state that Trump's belief has anything to do with the Unitary Executive Theory. Do you have another source, or are you just spitballing here?

The applicable DOJ regulation regarding Special Counsels, 28 CFR 600.7(d), clearly states "The Special Counsel may be disciplined or removed from office only by the personal action of the Attorney General." In this case, Sessions has recused himself, and therefore the acting AG over the Special Counsel Mueller is Rosenstein. In other words, Trump can tell Mueller he is fired, but Mueller can choose to ignore that unless the acting AG instructs him otherwise.

Honestly, none of this matters anyway, because if Trump really wants Mueller fired, he'll just have his own Saturday Night Massacre until he gets to someone in the DOJ that doesn't want to lose their job and agrees to fire Mueller.
 

Deleted member 4614

Oct 25, 2017
6,345
This investigation seems to reach far beyond Mueller at this point.
 
CallMeShaft

CallMeShaft

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,355
Trump: Robert Mueller, you're fired!
Mueller: Okay. [starts writing something on a notepad]
Trump: What are you doing Robert, I just fired you. You're fired. Get the hell outta here.
Mueller: Actually you can't fire me, but this will help further prove obstruction.
Trump: [immediately goes to Twitter to talk about how this is a WITCH HUNT]
 
Xiaomi

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
Either way, it's dangerous for the US. It's gonna mean installing someone completely unfit for the job in the office of the country's highest counsel. Just dumb shit to do to your home country.
 
Cochese

Cochese

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
6,960
Kneecap said:
Did you read any of those links? Yeesh.
Are you a fox viewer?
Because that is the level of "discussion" found there.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Did you?

The Hill said:
The White House's stance on firing Mueller has been rejected by many legal experts who say Trump does not have the power to fire the special counsel directly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Time said:
Justice Department guidelines say only Deputy Attorney Rod Rosenstein, who appointed Mueller last May, has the authority to fire him and only for specific cause. Rosenstein has repeatedly said that he has not seen any reason to dismiss Mueller
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Neither link makes any assertions on Unitary Executive Theory nor the opinions of the Court.
 
OP
OP

Kneecap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
304
There are recent threads here where even moderators are misinformed about this matter. Were Trump to fire Mueller directly, it would add a whole new dimension to the crisis. The strong version of the unitary executive theory essentially makes the president King of the Executive Branch. And, this version of the theory has a measure of the support on the Supreme Court. Seems an important point to me.
 
Hecht

Hecht

Too damn tired
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
9,730
Kneecap said:
There are recent threads here where even moderators are misinformed about this matter. Were Trump to fire Mueller directly, it would add a whole new dimension to the crisis. The strong version of the unitary executive theory essentially makes the president King of the Executive Branch. And, this version of the theory has a measure of the support on the Supreme Court. Seems an important point to me.
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I really don't see Trump firing Mueller as being all that far-fetched or even implausible so much as a Very Bad Idea™
 
OP
OP

Kneecap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
304
Cochese said:
Did you?

Neither link makes any assertions on Unitary Executive Theory nor the opinions of the Court.
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I didn't say they did. I said they show Trumps belief. I also said that that belief is based on the theory, and S.H. Sanders has said that legal experts have advised Trump that he has the power to fire Mueller directly in recent days. That advice is based on this theory that has support in conservative legal circles.
 
Cochese

Cochese

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
6,960
Kneecap said:
I didn't say they did. I said they show Trumps belief. I also said that that belief is based on the theory, and S.H. Sanders has said that legal experts have advised Trump that he has the power to fire Mueller directly in recent days. That advice is based on this theory that has support in conservative legal circles.
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Conservatives think Obama is Kenyan. This is about as strong of a legal argument.

Show us where you came across the USSC leaning toward accepting this theory, as you asserted.
 
TangoAlphaLima

TangoAlphaLima

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,799
Kneecap said:
I didn't say they did. I said they show Trumps belief. I also said that that belief is based on the theory, and S.H. Sanders has said that legal experts have advised Trump that he has the power to fire Mueller directly in recent days. That advice is based on this theory that has support in conservative legal circles.
Click to expand...
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You're going to need to provide us a source on this. The media has thus far only reported that Trump believes he can fire Mueller. There have been no other specifics. You're throwing the Unitary Executive Theory out as Trump's justification without any proof that he intends to rely upon it.
 
TheBryanJZX90

TheBryanJZX90

Member
Nov 29, 2017
3,011
Kneecap said:
There are recent threads here where even moderators are misinformed about this matter. Were Trump to fire Mueller directly, it would add a whole new dimension to the crisis. The strong version of the unitary executive theory essentially makes the president King of the Executive Branch. And, this version of the theory has a measure of the support on the Supreme Court. Seems an important point to me.
Click to expand...
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You should provide some backup for the support on the current court part of what you're saying because otherwise the guy you said was the only one who believed in it is dead
 
B-Dubs

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,720
If you have a disagreement with someone in another thread then keep it in that thread, don't make a new thread.
 
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