• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Control (PC) 1.04 patch adds DRM, removes offline playability, breaks Steam Controller support (UPDATE: Remedy responds, see threadmark)

Reader mode
Tovarisc

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,404
FIN
ERA: This was intentional from devs and it's bullshit, totally fucks over customer

Developer: Sorry about that, it was unintended effect from trying to get in some DLC authentication as EGS can't do it

ERA: This just confirms that it was intentional from devs and it's bullshit, totally fucks over customer

Can't win huh? Should have just left it as is apparently and not bother with rollback.
 
Fallout-NL

Fallout-NL

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,701
Was just about to play some more last night, but it broke in home streaming (through steam) for me as well.

Good to hear they're rolling it back.
 
dex3108

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,577
Tovarisc said:
ERA: This was intentional from devs and it's bullshit, totally fucks over customer

Developer: Sorry about that, it was unintended effect from trying to get in some DLC authentication as EGS can't do it

ERA: This just confirms that it was intentional from devs and it's bullshit, totally fucks over customer

Can't win huh? Should have just left it as is apparently and not bother with rollback.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They tried to implement DLC authentication using EGS account so it was intentional move. They just didn't implement it right or they couldn't implement it better with current tools EPic gave them. One was or another they did just screw paying customers over because first DLC is still far from release.
 
Tovarisc

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,404
FIN
dex3108 said:
They tried to implement DLC authentication using EGS account so it was intentional move. They just didn't implement it right or they couldn't implement it better with current tools EPic gave them. One was or another they did just screw paying customers over because first DLC is still far from release.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

To be honest I don't really see whole "It's fucking over paying customer" part of it at all. Because how poorly EGS is put together and how it enables piratism (just copy paste installed game into .7zip and upload as torrent basically (super simplified)) I really can't blame developer for putting some DRM in even if "game is lost" at this point. There is no way Remedy feels great that people are able to refund their game, but still keep all access to it and even slap in DLCs as torrent downloads.

Offline play is just side effect of EGS not having any licensing check systems in place and not intended feature of EGS.
 

KoolAid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,676
It's almost like the EGS' main problem isn't the paid exclusives, but how shittily it works
 
MaLDo

MaLDo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,401
Tovarisc said:
To be honest I don't really see whole "It's fucking over paying customer" part of it at all. Because how poorly EGS is put together and how it enables piratism (just copy paste installed game into .7zip and upload as torrent basically (super simplified)) I really can't blame developer for putting some DRM in even if "game is lost" at this point. There is no way Remedy feels great that people are able to refund their game, but still keep all access to it and even slap in DLCs as torrent downloads.

Offline play is just side effect of EGS not having any licensing check systems in place and not intended feature of EGS.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Oh boy, you're making all that sound even more interesting than waiting a year to buy the game in Steam.

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure that Remedy is swimming in Epic's money.

Amirite?
 
Psamtik

Psamtik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,845
I played through the XB1 version, and am still planning a day-one purchase on Steam. Feeling vindicated about not touching the EGS version with a ten-foot pole - by next year, the DLC should be out and any major issues should be addressed.
 
Rickenslacker

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
lmao at some folks still turning this into a jab against epic

but i'm glad remedy came out and reverted this relatively quickly

Psamtik said:
I played through the XB1 version, and am still planning a day-one purchase on Steam. Feeling vindicated about not touching the EGS version with a ten-foot pole - by next year, the DLC should be out and any major issues should be addressed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
you could've bought an egs key for it at like $15 from here in the BST thread but you'll pat yourself on the back over playing it with worse performance with hardware drm because the exe doesn't launch from a particular program. well, alright.
 
Last edited:
Mivey

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,817
Tovarisc said:
To be honest I don't really see whole "It's fucking over paying customer" part of it at all. Because how poorly EGS is put together and how it enables piratism (just copy paste installed game into .7zip and upload as torrent basically (super simplified)) I really can't blame developer for putting some DRM in even if "game is lost" at this point. There is no way Remedy feels great that people are able to refund their game, but still keep all access to it and even slap in DLCs as torrent downloads.

Offline play is just side effect of EGS not having any licensing check systems in place and not intended feature of EGS.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't see how Remedy can possibly complain. That's just the service you get from a 12% store. For better infrastructure and service you'd need to go to a platform with a higher cut, say somewhere around 30%. You get what you pay for.
 
Umbrella Carp

Umbrella Carp

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
3,265
Yeah bull to the shit that Epic wasn't involved here somehow. This is straight out of the Square-Enix/SEGA playbook.
 
Nooblet

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,623
dex3108 said:
Steam doesn't force usage of Steam DRM. Reason why Ubisoft games on Epic Store don't require Epic Launchers is because there is no Epic Store API. That is why you buy MTX from UPLay overlay and not Epic Store. They simply don't have infrastructure to do it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, this is what people said when I first brought it up earlier this year when Division 2 came out. But the existence of F2P games on EGS proves that it's out of choice (or atleast not a priority) and not a failure of the store's functionality. Because if it was the latter you'd think they'd be on it first thing if they actually wanted to get that mtx cut but can't due to their infrastructure limitation. It also would make sense why Ubi would choose to go exclusive with them if they are able to get all the mtx money for themselves instead of the platform owner taking a cut like steam.
 
daninthemix

daninthemix

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,022
noyram23 said:
I hope Epic update their platfotm to avoid stupidity like this
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah, single player games need to remain playable offline, and don't prevent people from launching the executable through Steam (so they can stream, use the controller support etc).

Anything else will only multiply the already considerable hostility towards the platform.
 
Potterson

Potterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,408
The game was pirated DAY ONE.

I wonder why Remedy tried to do anything about it. Stupid Remedy, right? Oh, how naive of them to think piracy hurt them. Eh, some people.
 
Spark

Spark

Member
Dec 6, 2017
2,538
BeImonkey said:
What is the deal with Steam DRM anyway? Is it just convenient for most games to have it since it's an included extra when releasing on Steam anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Without it people can copy the game data to other PCs and run it without having paid for it. It'll essentially be DRM free like GoG. A number of games on Steam don't have this DRM, and you can copy and run them on any PC.
 
sandboxgod

sandboxgod

Attempting to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,919
Austin, Texas
I rarely ever play DLC unless it's included in an ultimate edition so I'll just keep the version I have forever unpatched

(and yes I read Rememdy's response)
 
Jebusman

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,081
Halifax, NS
BeImonkey said:
What is the deal with Steam DRM anyway? Is it just convenient for most games to have it since it's an included extra when releasing on Steam anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If you're leveraging a bunch of other Steamworks features into your game (multiplayer, trading cards, achievements, etc.), it's handy to ensure the user is actually launching the game through Steam to make sure those features work. In Valve's documentation they admit it's not really a good anti-piracy feature otherwise, maybe enough to stop Day 1:

The Steam DRM wrapper by itself is not is not a anti-piracy solution. The Steam DRM wrapper protects against extremely casual piracy (i.e. copying all game files to another computer) and has some obfuscation, but it is easily removed by a motivated attacker.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If you're developing a game that doesn't require the Steamworks API for anything you can skip it, or slap it on just to give you that likely 1 day (if that) of no piracy.
 
dex3108

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,577
Nooblet said:
Yes, this is what people said when I first brought it up earlier this year when Division 2 came out. But the existence of F2P games on EGS proves that it's out of choice (or atleast not a priority) and not a failure of the store's functionality. Because if it was the latter you'd think they'd be on it first thing if they actually wanted to get that mtx cut but can't due to their infrastructure limitation. It also would make sense why Ubi would choose to go exclusive with them if they are able to get all the mtx money for themselves instead of the platform owner taking a cut like steam.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That is why currently most if not all F2P games on Epic store have those Founders packs and DLCs that act like MTX. Also Fortnite has build in store in game itself and that is part of Epic Online Tools that they announced at GDC and then delayed. So i wouldn't say that it is by choice, it is simply issue of underdeveloped store.
 

Deleted member 679

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
Potterson said:
The game was pirated DAY ONE.

I wonder why Remedy tried to do anything about it. Stupid Remedy, right? Oh, how naive of them to think piracy hurt them. Eh, some people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's nothing they can do once it's already pirated. This only affects paying customers.

Unless a pirate really wants photomode, then I suppose they do need to wait for a new crack.
 
Pargon

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,995
horkrux said:
this is hyper weird
why can't you be normal, era
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Why can't Epic respect their users' privacy instead of scraping their drives for data they don't have permission for?
They've already done it once before, and have shown that they don't care about lying to customers if it benefits them.
Remember that time they said they wouldn't buy up exclusivity for games that already had an announced release date on Steam, and did it again only days later? They've lost my trust. I have no reason to believe they won't do it again.

daninthemix said:
It does seem a little extreme.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
noyram23 said:
A 'little' lol
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's really no big thing though. Hyper-V is built into Windows, so it only takes a couple of minutes to set up a new VM. I didn't even have to - I already had one set up.
It maybe adds 30 seconds to the install process to spin up the VM, and then move the files once it's downloaded the game.
epic-vm-0vj1e.png


Now I have a copy of Celeste that any of my PCs can access and play without having to deal with the client, or being locked out of playing it if their servers die because of a new Fortnite season.

Potterson said:
The game was pirated DAY ONE.
I wonder why Remedy tried to do anything about it. Stupid Remedy, right? Oh, how naive of them to think piracy hurt them. Eh, some people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Adding DRM to a game that is already pirated doesn't retroactively remove the pirated version from circulation. All it does is restrict what people that paid for the game can do with it.
 
Last edited:
Breqesk

Breqesk

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,229
I feel like this thread title could use the addition of 'Remedy rolls back patch'. 'Remedy responds' is kinda ambiguous and my first thought was that they'd simply put out a statement, not immediately fixed the problem.
 

Deleted member 17184

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,240
I can see why they'd want to validate the DLC. But that was supposed to be a simple check, not an always-on DRM - and they're going to fix it. I don't think there's a reason to worry there.
 
Lump

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,970
dex3108 said:
Steam doesn't force usage of Steam DRM. Reason why Ubisoft games on Epic Store don't require Epic Launchers is because there is no Epic Store API. That is why you buy MTX from UPLay overlay and not Epic Store. They simply don't have infrastructure to do it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The Epic Store is missing lots of things, but the craziest thing they're missing that no one talks about is giftcard support. It blew my mind how the Fortnite people didn't have giftcards ready for the 2018 holiday season, and my mind is sent orbiting around the moon knowing they won't have that support or infrastructure for the 2019 holiday season either. Even if you wanted to digitally gift Vbucks or Epic Store money to someone, the system just can't do it. I can't even imagine how much money that is left on the table when Fortnite is as big as it is.
 
dex3108

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,577
Lump said:
The Epic Store is missing lots of things, but the craziest thing they're missing that no one talks about is giftcard support. It blew my mind how the Fortnite people didn't have giftcards ready for the 2018 holiday season, and my mind is sent orbiting around the moon knowing they won't have that support or infrastructure for the 2019 holiday season either. Even if you wanted to digitally gift Vbucks or Epic Store money to someone, the system just can't do it. I can't even imagine how much money that is left on the table when Fortnite is as big as it is.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They can't do giftcards on Epic Store (at least ones sold in retail stores) because 12% cut is not enough to cover those costs. They could maybe do digital ones but because there is no gifting support on the store they can't do those either.
 
Lump

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,970
dex3108 said:
They can't do giftcards on Epic Store (at least ones sold in retail stores) because 12% cut is not enough to cover those costs. They could maybe do digital ones but because there is no gifting support on the store they can't do those either.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Typical retail giftcards, yes. But after the retail cut, they'd see 100% of "VBuck cards" if they ever could put them out.

I can understand physical giftcards not taking form yet. It's the digital gifting not being there that is really crazy.
 
dex3108

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,577
Lump said:
Typical retail giftcards, yes. But they'd see 100% of "VBuck cards" if they ever could put them out.

I can understand physical giftcards not taking form yet. It's the digital gifting not being there that is really crazy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

According to Valve selling wallet cards in stores costs them 15% or more per sold card. So no they wouldn't see 100% from those. They would take 15+% hit on those cards and then 12% hit on whatever is bought with those cards. That is why they can sell V-Buck cards in stores. But yeah digital gifting not being there day 1 is crazy. But again digital gifting is not easy to implement these days when publishers don't want to allow cross region gifting.
 
Lump

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,970
dex3108 said:
According to Valve selling wallet cards in stores costs them 15% or more per sold card. So no they wouldn't see 100% from those. They would take 15+% hit on those cards and then 12% hit on whatever is bought with those cards. That is why they can sell V-Buck cards in stores. But yeah digital gifting not being there day 1 is crazy. But again digital gifting is not easy to implement these days when publishers don't want to allow cross region gifting.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I sneakily edited in a "after the retail cut" into my post because I realized I sounded dumb
 
Tovarisc

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,404
FIN
Lashley said:
Control devs roll back an update that added DRM – "no need to blame Epic for our mistakes"


How do you add DRM by mistake?

And this guy guessed it

Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If you had read Remedy's response to this patch, threadmarked in this thread too, they state their intention was to add DRM / licensing checks in order to have DLC checked before it activates in the game. It becoming what it was in patch was unintended by them hence the rollback.
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.