CONTROL Spoiler Thread

Luckett_X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,069
Leeds, UK
I still think Polaris is like the offspring of Hedron. I think it requires a catalyst to be born, or just merely exist in infancy, and that is why it has a symbiotic relationship with Jesse, a sound producing mammal. Hedron was the singularity, gender neutral, but because Polaris was born from mixing with Jesse it mirrors her voice and so she addresses it as a Her. Polaris is not just her power or psychosis, she clearly demonstrates sentience throughout the game.

All signs point to Darling having 'ascended' in some way, and I wonder if he too hasn't become some form of 'resonance being'. The way he communicates his final message to Jesse is through a music video, the most human and bombastic way of delivering sound possible. The Old Gods of Asgard produce such a powerful sound they can interrupt the effects of Objects of Power, and indeed the FBC were conducting experiments with their records and their parallel dimension counterparts the Poets Of The Fall ;)

Probably due to the SCP inspiration, a lot of Control's base is exploring the 5 senses. The Mold twisting the sense of smell for instance, a different way to infect members of the FBC. Then theres articles like the Flamingo screwing with sight and senses of vertigo and so on. The Not-Mother in the Ordinary reports could be seen as manipulating Taste too.

Not sure what to make of The Board and Former though. They're probably not Resonance beings, but something else perhaps more traditionally psychic, sleeping Astral world Lovecraftian based.

Boy do I enjoy all the Control lore.
 

labx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,191
Medellín, Colombia
Trench went on the expeditions into the slide with Darling and others. The slide is silent because Hedron was keeping the Hiss at bay, and they're sound based entitites. But Trench heard something that no one else did in the slide. That was the Hiss infecting him first. They corrupted him over time and made him paranoid of the people around him and threatened by Darling's work with Hedron who was an enemy of the Hiss. So he was convinced the only way to save the world from Darling and everyone else around him was to let the Hiss in. He used another slide that he had pocketed that was burned but still usable to let the Hiss in.

As for Darling, they left that one more vague. He might not physically exist anymore but his consciousness might still be out there. Sounds like some kind of ascension after communing with Hedron or something.

Most of this is contained in the last video files plus Trench's monologue when you're an infected office worker. And you can talk to Pope about what she thinks about where Darling is after the credits.
Thanks man. Do you thing Hedron is some being like the board?
 
Dec 14, 2017
666
I still think Polaris is like the offspring of Hedron. I think it requires a catalyst to be born, or just merely exist in infancy, and that is why it has a symbiotic relationship with Jesse, a sound producing mammal. Hedron was the singularity, gender neutral, but because Polaris was born from mixing with Jesse it mirrors her voice and so she addresses it as a Her. Polaris is not just her power or psychosis, she clearly demonstrates sentience throughout the game.

All signs point to Darling having 'ascended' in some way, and I wonder if he too hasn't become some form of 'resonance being'. The way he communicates his final message to Jesse is through a music video, the most human and bombastic way of delivering sound possible. The Old Gods of Asgard produce such a powerful sound they can interrupt the effects of Objects of Power, and indeed the FBC were conducting experiments with their records and their parallel dimension counterparts the Poets Of The Fall ;)

Probably due to the SCP inspiration, a lot of Control's base is exploring the 5 senses. The Mold twisting the sense of smell for instance, a different way to infect members of the FBC. Then theres articles like the Flamingo screwing with sight and senses of vertigo and so on. The Not-Mother in the Ordinary reports could be seen as manipulating Taste too.

Not sure what to make of The Board and Former though. They're probably not Resonance beings, but something else perhaps more traditionally psychic, sleeping Astral world Lovecraftian based.

Boy do I enjoy all the Control lore.
I like that Polaris/Hedron idea. We do see Polaris's visual representation when Jesse thinks to herself and when she speaks out loud, Polaris could simply be tuned to the 'sound' of Jesse's thoughts I guess?
 

labx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,191
Medellín, Colombia
I still think Polaris is like the offspring of Hedron. I think it requires a catalyst to be born, or just merely exist in infancy, and that is why it has a symbiotic relationship with Jesse, a sound producing mammal. Hedron was the singularity, gender neutral, but because Polaris was born from mixing with Jesse it mirrors her voice and so she addresses it as a Her. Polaris is not just her power or psychosis, she clearly demonstrates sentience throughout the game.

All signs point to Darling having 'ascended' in some way, and I wonder if he too hasn't become some form of 'resonance being'. The way he communicates his final message to Jesse is through a music video, the most human and bombastic way of delivering sound possible. The Old Gods of Asgard produce such a powerful sound they can interrupt the effects of Objects of Power, and indeed the FBC were conducting experiments with their records and their parallel dimension counterparts the Poets Of The Fall ;)

Probably due to the SCP inspiration, a lot of Control's base is exploring the 5 senses. The Mold twisting the sense of smell for instance, a different way to infect members of the FBC. Then theres articles like the Flamingo screwing with sight and senses of vertigo and so on. The Not-Mother in the Ordinary reports could be seen as manipulating Taste too.

Not sure what to make of The Board and Former though. They're probably not Resonance beings, but something else perhaps more traditionally psychic, sleeping Astral world Lovecraftian based.

Boy do I enjoy all the Control lore.
I like this theory a lot. But I think (yesterday I read all the in-game lore) that Hedron, the thing that they discover in Ordinary is a being like the board. The manifestation is Polaris in the mind of Jesse and his brother. I make the parallels with Bloodborne and the eyes. Jesse's brother was contaminated with the Hiss (because of Trenche) and Polaris couldn't do much. So is up to Jesse. I think that like in bloodborne there is a war between more powerful beings in other dimensions, some of them are "with" us and other "against". Hedron is with us in this case, and the board too. Maybe they have their own agenda.
 

JackEtc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
296
NYC
I just finished the game and am going back to do all the side missions/bosses I ignored initially (I was too engrossed in the main story, I only fought the Former and none of the other side bosses) - I'm never like this with singleplayer story games! Control is a ride and I really enjoyed every second, I only wish it was longer and kept the twists coming!

The world building is just so amazing. I never saw the Northmoor thing, fucking nuts!

Combing through and reading this entire thread now. Have there been any notable games podcasts that did a spoilercast for this? I was hoping Giant Bomb would but nothing so far.
 

UnluckyKate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,837
I didn't catch who / what was inside the powerplant ? 665 neigbor of the beast, but I didn't get if it was an entity or a former agent who became unstable after contact with altered item.

Daring disapear ? God I loved Daring.

Marshall disapeared too ? That sounds like DLC.

God of old north lol nice throwback to Alan Wake.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,595
For people who really loved the ashtray maze, what stood out about it for you that made it so amazing? The environmental shifts were cool and all, but there has been similar stuff in other games, I was really underwhelmed here with how much this was hyped. Does this section completely hinge on how much you enjoy this type of music? Because the buttrock made it worse for me lmao. My girlfriend was in the room when I played it and I felt actively embarrassed by how lame the music was lol.
 

Steak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
119
the level and combat design in the ashtray maze is better than anywhere else in the game,
it came at a point where I had bascially figured out how I liked to play and it let me play that way and be successful,
I wasn't spoiled or even aware that there was a bit that people were excited about so it was completely unexpected,
the music and lyrics are so agressively silly that it is wraps back around to being fun.
 

Rumenapp

Member
Nov 9, 2017
937
For people who really loved the ashtray maze, what stood out about it for you that made it so amazing? The environmental shifts were cool and all, but there has been similar stuff in other games, I was really underwhelmed here with how much this was hyped. Does this section completely hinge on how much you enjoy this type of music? Because the buttrock made it worse for me lmao. My girlfriend was in the room when I played it and I felt actively embarrassed by how lame the music was lol.

I guess being involved in the Remedy's "universe" might help with the hype. I was smiling during the whole section and i´m saying a huge grin on my face even after knowing that this supposedly was one of the best sections of the game.

In terms of surprise i think the Hideo Kojima cameo had more impact for me personally.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,595

I guess being involved in the Remedy's "universe" might help with the hype. I was smiling during the whole section and i´m saying a huge grin on my face even after knowing that this supposedly was one of the best sections of the game.

In terms of surprise i think the Hideo Kojima cameo had more impact for me personally.
I played on PC so no hideo. And yeah I've played all the other remedy games, I thought the music was cringey lame buttrock in Alan Wake too lol.

Definitely didnt find ashtray maze to be the best section of the game. It was fine, probably better on mute.

I also never liked the idea that these geriatric old dudes had a rock band in the 70's that sounded like a hybrid of stone sour/dream theater and disturbed or whatever. Would have made way more sense as a classic rock band. I just don't see these songs coming out of two old grizzly biker dudes at all.
 
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Dec 14, 2017
666
I played on PC so no hideo. And yeah I've played all the other remedy games, I thought the music was cringey lame buttrock in Alan Wake too lol.

Definitely didnt find ashtray maze to be the best section of the game. It was fine, probably better on mute.

I also never liked the idea that these geriatric old dudes had a rock band in the 70's that sounded like a hybrid of stone sour/dream theater and disturbed or whatever. Would have made way more sense as a classic rock band. I just don't see these songs coming out of two old grizzly biker dudes at all.
In game the band members are now old, but that was their sound when... they were a classic rock band? But regardless, I guess if the music doesn't click then the whole section doesn't hit as hard. I'm not really big on music like that, but Remedy pulls off incorporating stuff like that excellently for me. Also for me seeing Jesse put on the headphones and finally making real progress, I spent a long time trying to figure out what to do in the maze early in the game, was enough to set me in grin mode.

It's also just really funny how all these phd labcoat researchers are bashing their heads in trying to figure out what this part of the house is. When all they need is the right jams/blessing from the janitor/elder god.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,595
In game the band members are now old, but that was their sound when... they were a classic rock band? But regardless, I guess if the music doesn't click then the whole section doesn't hit as hard.
Yeah lol I just feel like biker dudes from the 70's should sound like zz Top or maybe Judas Priest or something. Poets of the Fall is bad modern butt rock and it just doesn't fit at all. That whole concert section in Alan Wake felt so off to me. "This song is supposed to be by THESE fuckin guys? " The sound is so whack, it's like the Seether version of a Will Smith movie title song.

Finally completed the game though. Overall 7.5/10, would have been 8.5 if it wasn't for the shitty checkpoint system. Game is really cool, but you get levitate waaaay too late in the game, crucial powers locked behind side quests is unintuitive, and the mod system feels really tacked on. Why does this game need 12 different kinds of currencies/mats? Why am I constantly getting showered with level 1 and 2 mods 8 hours into the game? I only found like 5 mods throughout the whole game that felt meaningful in any way. Two 3 tiered wave based fights in a row basically at the end of the game, where you have to start from tier 1 if you die felt shitty to me too and led to me just hiding and sniping from a far, which is boring, but I'm also not trying to play risky and have to play the entire section 5 times.

Once you have all powers, the combat is fucking great though, really fun stuff, shame the first half, maybe even 2/3rds of the game felt like a standard TPS with telekenesis thrown in. Love the worldbuilding and atmosphere, that carried the whole game imo.
 
Dec 14, 2017
666
Yeah lol I just feel like biker dudes from the 70's should sound like zz Top or maybe Judas Priest or something. Poets of the Fall is bad modern butt rock and it just doesn't fit at all. That whole concert section in Alan Wake felt so off to me. "This song is supposed to be by THESE fuckin guys? " The sound is so whack, it's like the Seether version of a Will Smith movie title song.

Finally completed the game though. Overall 7.5/10, would have been 8.5 if it wasn't for the shitty checkpoint system. Game is really cool, but you get levitate waaaay too late in the game, crucial powers locked behind side quests is unintuitive, and the mod system feels really tacked on. Why does this game need 12 different kinds of currencies/mats? Why am I constantly getting showered with level 1 and 2 mods 8 hours into the game? I only found like 5 mods throughout the whole game that felt meaningful in any way. Two 3 tiered wave based fights in a row basically at the end of the game, where you have to start from tier 1 if you die felt shitty to me too and led to me just hiding and sniping from a far, which is boring, but I'm also not trying to play risky and have to play the entire section 5 times.

Once you have all powers, the combat is fucking great though, really fun stuff, shame the first half, maybe even 2/3rds of the game felt like a standard TPS with telekenesis thrown in. Love the worldbuilding and atmosphere, that carried the whole game imo.
I think that's part of the appeal and goofiness of Old Gods of Asgard, they aren't supposed to sound like their contemporaries. There's even a sound research room in Control where they're blasting a song by them to find supernatural powers in it. As for how Poets of the Fall being modern butt rock, I guess, again I find all their music in Remedy games well implemented. Sort of like how Crush 40 matches perfectly with Sonic, regardless of genre or quality, if it fits it fits.

I'm seeing more people having issues with mods, which I also find odd. I suppose it is rng based, but I had tons of useful mods and wanted to upgrade my weapons constantly for more slots. Damage on kill, headshot boosts, shield reload speed are all mods that change how you play. I also only find weak mods at endgame from enemy drops, which are simply source breakdown fodder. At that point chests in hidden areas and drops from timed missions and rolling tier 5 mods from the upgrade screen are the main source for good mods. Weapon specific mods are also usually really strong.
 

endlessflood

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,786
Australia (GMT+10)
Just looked up a hint and went back to it in-game.



"It's the director's job to keep the lights on"



Now I'm even more interested. How the shit is Northmoor powerful enough to do all that.
In game files they call him a pyro-something (Pyromancer? Pyrokinetic? Something like that) and that his powers had started to spiral out of control and become a danger to everyone. So they turned him into a power plant lol. That moment when you finally figure out what the ‘NSC’ in ‘NSC Power Plant’ stands for is brilliant.
 

SofNascimento

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,217
Playing the game again with that info is great. There are a lot of references to it. And listening to Trench's audios take a whole new meaning. Also, there is a Jesse monologue if you go there after beating the game.

 

Chitown B

Member
Nov 15, 2017
4,038
This game is in my veins. I freaking love all the Alan Wake info. It's just full of information, I don't know where to start. I've only got secret areas to find for my 100%, but I will need to read up on it for awhile.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
7,373
Would love for them to put together official FBC in-world books and guides. Would be pretty neat.
 

Guy.brush

Member
Oct 27, 2017
739
Seems most of the talk is about taking the world presented at surface value. What about the underlying subtext?

I feel like this could be all in her mind. Jesse fighting multiple personas inside her own psyche?
The Old House has strands of the tube mail system everywhere, the plants looking like neuron receptors or dendrites, the art piece of the brain in pieces...
From the first minutes on, the whole arrival of Jesse is totally surreal. Everything in the Old House is basically dream logic. Layout of rooms, the firebreaks, the giant pillars at the foundation, the ashtray maze all of that.
Then there are the missions from the Janitor, unclogging pipes, cleaning the mold, making the plants bloom and grow by talking to them, all fit quite well with the Old House being a damaged psyche/brain metaphor.
To me it feels hard to believe this is an actual dimension shifting reality somehow hidden in something quite close to our own reality where people go to work and do proper science all the while they are slaughtered or having deadly accidents on a daily basis_
It feels more like a dream where you think it all makes sense, there are rules and it is feeling real while you are still captured by it, but when you wake up, it is a whole bunch of weird mumbo jumbo when looked at with wake eyes.

Polaris? Bi-polar? Are Darling, Underhill "reminds me of my biology teacher", Marshall, Pope etc different aspects of her personality?
All seem to have meaningful names.
Then there was this line where Dylan told her about both Jesse and his names being non-gender specific? Is Dylan also an aspect of her personality?

One thing I found missing is a more personal connection of Jesse to the 60s/X-Files inspired secret US agency culture?
It is obvious that the game & art director love that exaggerated brutalism and Sam Lake is a huge X-Files/FBI fan probably, but what is it that gives this a direct connection to the protagonist? That connection is only there if you take the Bureau for "real", but then this would go against subtext of this happening in her head. Felt there was a bit of missing connective tissue there between Jesse and why she chose the Bureau to represent her struggles.
 

Seneset

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,070
Limbus Patrum
Seems most of the talk is about taking the world presented at surface value. What about the underlying subtext?

I feel like this could be all in her mind. Jesse fighting multiple personas inside her own psyche?
The Old House has strands of the tube mail system everywhere, the plants looking like neuron receptors or dendrites, the art piece of the brain in pieces...
From the first minutes on, the whole arrival of Jesse is totally surreal. Everything in the Old House is basically dream logic. Layout of rooms, the firebreaks, the giant pillars at the foundation, the ashtray maze all of that.
Then there are the missions from the Janitor, unclogging pipes, cleaning the mold, making the plants bloom and grow by talking to them, all fit quite well with the Old House being a damaged psyche/brain metaphor.
To me it feels hard to believe this is an actual dimension shifting reality somehow hidden in something quite close to our own reality where people go to work and do proper science all the while they are slaughtered or having deadly accidents on a daily basis_
It feels more like a dream where you think it all makes sense, there are rules and it is feeling real while you are still captured by it, but when you wake up, it is a whole bunch of weird mumbo jumbo when looked at with wake eyes.

Polaris? Bi-polar? Are Darling, Underhill "reminds me of my biology teacher", Marshall, Pope etc different aspects of her personality?
All seem to have meaningful names.
Then there was this line where Dylan told her about both Jesse and his names being non-gender specific? Is Dylan also an aspect of her personality?

One thing I found missing is a more personal connection of Jesse to the 60s/X-Files inspired secret US agency culture?
It is obvious that the game & art director love that exaggerated brutalism and Sam Lake is a huge X-Files/FBI fan probably, but what is it that gives this a direct connection to the protagonist? That connection is only there if you take the Bureau for "real", but then this would go against subtext of this happening in her head. Felt there was a bit of missing connective tissue there between Jesse and why she chose the Bureau to represent her struggles.
I totally didn't get the, 'this is all a dream inside her head' logic. The oldest house is an OOP, but I don't remember them saying people died in their daily.

Considering the connection to all the other Remedy games we see via Easter eggs, how do you rationalize them? Does Alan Wake, Quantum Break, etc also take place in her head also? Who would the Board or the Former represent in this, all aspects of her personality? Same for the places in the oldest house, are they all markers of something too? This just seems too Tommy Westphall Universe for me.

Lastly, can you explain why she needs "a more personal connection of Jesse to the 60s/X-Files inspired secret US agency culture "? I don't get what you're pointing to there.
 
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teague

Member
Dec 17, 2018
791
I totally didn't get the, 'this is all a dream inside her head' logic. The oldest house is an OOP, but I don't remember them saying people died in their daily.

Considering the connection to all the other Remedy games we see via Easter eggs, how do you rationalize them? Does Alan Wake, Quantum Break, etc also take place in her head also? Who would the board or the former represent in this, all aspects of her personality? Same for the places in the oldest house, are they all markers of something too? This just seems too Tommy Westphall Universe for me.

Lastly, can you explain why she needs "a more personal connection of Jesse to the 60s/X-Files inspired secret US agency culture "? I don't get what you're pointing to there.
I took it to be more like the opposite of this, if you will--the origin of many of the supernatural happenings in the game is in urban legends, myths, that kind of thing. There are these huge unexplainable things out there beyond our normal life (the supernatural entities/Thresholds/etc.) and when the rub up against our experience, they get filtered through the collective unconscious or something like that and turned into stuff that's still pretty weird but understandable. So some kind of Lovecraftian horror monster that would break your brain gets manifested as a weird black pyramid, etc. The OOPs are like this too-a bunch of the files note that what people associate with certain objects influences their powers insofar as they'll stick to archetypal kinds of forms (yellow rubber duck, Christmas tree, stoplights, and so on). The logic is definitely kind of like dream-logic, but it's more because of all of these unconscious associations everyone has that are shaping the world and allowing in supernatural entities in certain forms, that kind of thing.

And also, powerfully psychic people can just exert a lot more "gravity", if you will, both in terms of controlling how things manifest and in terms of acquiring power themselves. So Alan Wake shaped the form of the AWE at Bright Falls because his unconscious beliefs/desires were both really powerful and he was just naturally psychic, so it got to kind of be like a "nightmare" for him, but he also subjected everybody else to it. And Jesse is the same way--it's not random that all the stuff in the Oldest House when she shows up seems to center on her, it's reacting to her paranoia and turning out that way. Her powers are also kind of like typical dream/power fantasy abilities--flying, telekinesis (externalizing the will), and so on.

I guess I would need to think about it more and it's a little intentionally vague, but I would say the themes are more centered around something like the idea that we unconsciously exert a lot of control (haha) over how we perceive the world and therefore what ends up in it.