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Cory Barlog addresses the lack of boss fights in GOW

Sanctuary

Sanctuary

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Oct 27, 2017
14,203
Certinfy said:
Is this guy for real? Asking for more bosses is being greedy? There's barely any bosses in the game and only very few are even good. If there were already a ton of good ones I could understand that statement but given the bosses in the game? Hahaha.
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Stop being greedy and enjoy killing trolls and valkyries. Again.

Killer751 said:
Probably by having actual talent.

I refuse to play the new GOW out of principal. I'm getting massive TLOU flashbacks at how people hype this game up just for being a dad simulator.

I'll stick with Yakuza, thanks.
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Well, it does have many elements that would remind you of TLOU, but it's more Tomb Raider + Arkham Asylum + any random open world game of the last decade + TLOU. The main problem is the FoV though. Kratos is wearing horse blinders 100% of the time.
 

ced

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Oct 27, 2017
2,751
i-hate-u said:
The one GLARING disappointment was that the
Hel Gate Guardian was a freaking Troll
, but other than that, the side content satisfied me when it came to boss fights.

And if they're following the trajectory of the previous boss fights, we should be fine.
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Totally agree, that was the only spot where I was disappointed in a lack of boss per say.
 
ZeroX

ZeroX

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Yeah if it's taking them that long to make bosses of that quality, something ain't quite right compared to what other devs and past GoW entries have put out. You could tell that they were being purposefully conservative in some areas, but other areas it was clearly just troll padding.

At least it shows he's aware of the criticism and presumably it will be rectified in future entries.
 

Deleted member 135

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I didn't even notice the lack of boss fights (there isn't a lack). The ones in the game are the best I've ever played.
 
MegaSackman

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ronaldthump said:
Maybe its because the POV of the new GOW is different so you're fighting them differently from the old games. The old games were sort of mindless-ish hack and slashers; new GOW has more strategy to them due to the view point and the inclusion of atreus. I think designing these encouters are compounded by the POV + boy mechanics.
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Also, the old GOW games had a fixed camera.
 
J 0 E

J 0 E

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Oct 27, 2017
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Never bothered me at all
I'll take quality over quantity every time, the first Baldur encounter was phenomenal and set the tone of the game perfectly
 
LonestarZues

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Oct 27, 2017
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i-hate-u said:
And to make matters worse, they
rubbed salt in the wounds by putting in that giant bird crow thing after you beat the troll. I wanna fight that thing.
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I wouldn't doubt it if you told me that was 1 of the bosses they cut.
I feel like the troll was the mini boss before the boss, but for reasons they had to cut it.
 
CHC

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Oct 27, 2017
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I think some of the Troll fatigue could have been alleviated by incorporating a few Valkyries into the main story as boss fights. They were exceptional fights, and while I have no issue with their actual history being a sidequest, it would have been cool to have an actual introduction to at least one as part of the main plot.

I think the most disappointing fight was
the guardian of Hel. It's so built up - the way you have to dig up the Blades of Chaos
just to be able face him at all - and then, lo and behold, its another goddamn Troll. I'd say that was the only one where I actively felt disappointed, rather than just thinking "I'd rather fight something new."
 
Blade Wolf

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Cory you know I love this game super much, but at one point you have to understand maybe people are right on this, maybe there's just not enough people working on the boss team?

I'm no developer, just a gamer, so all I can say is that I do wish the boss fights in the next game will be better, maybe it's time to rethink how to create unique boss fights without taking up years of time, there's got to be a way.

The story bosses in the game are really cool to look at but disappointingly kind of average in terms of gameplay, especially when compared to the Valkyries which are truly AWESOME boss fights.

The Baldur fight was cool but it was repeated more than 5 times, the dragon fight was impressive but it's basically a throwing ball game, Magni and Modi was quite good, probably the most mechanically enjoyable boss fights in the story, and then that's really it for unique story boss fights....

then we have the Helheim troll....god if I can change one thing about this game it would probably be this, such a absurd decision imo, to make such important boss a troll.
 
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DontHateTheBacon

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That's not a great explanation about why there aren't more bosses, lol.

"You're getting greedy!"

For expecting a franchise based on massive scale and insane boss fights to have... massive scale and insane boss fights? This was the single most disappointing part of the game for me. They did everything else great, but the actual "boss fights" are... just not really that good or numerous.

Trolls, Golems or <insert major character here>. Over and over.

The best "boss fights" aren't even main line fights, and even they are very similar, considering they're all the same class of enemy.

I hope they don't skimp on bosses going forward. That would be a real problem for me, sadly.
 
Chairman Yang

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I think the next GoW could do better with using their resources for bosses if they focus less on flashy scripting and more on interesting AI behaviors and attacks, like the Souls games.
 
Brobit

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i-hate-u said:
The one GLARING disappointment was that the
Hel Gate Guardian was a freaking Troll
, but other than that, the side content satisfied me when it came to boss fights.

And if they're following the trajectory of the previous boss fights, we should be fine.
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Totally forgot about that, but you're absolutely right. If there had been one more huge creature fight at this point, that would have been enough for me.
 
No Depth

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Oct 27, 2017
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I only just started...so I had no idea this was a thing. Disappointing to hear coming off the great first boss, I am kind of disliking the arena fights against swarms of zombies on repeat in the hour or so since.
 
Dmax3901

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Oct 25, 2017
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I have finished the game but I have to say I'd be mad reading that thread title if I hadn't.
 
Papaya

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I don't really see why they took so long. The Balder fights, sure, but everything else seemed pretty standard. Maybe those two fights really did take up a significant portion?

Even that Dragon fight felt a bit like a standard Bayonetta boss that Platinum games seems to make a lot of. It feels more advance with some things, but not by much.
 
dralla

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i-hate-u said:
The one GLARING disappointment was that the
Hel Gate Guardian was a freaking Troll
, but other than that, the side content satisfied me when it came to boss fights.
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That whole area of the game is disappointing, not only is there no unique boss there's not a single unique enemy. But yea, when the boss turned out to be another troll I was extremely disappointed and it's the only spot in the game where I wish there was another boss.
 
ghostcrew

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I kinda feel like most other devs would get raked over the coals if they said that players were "being greedy" for having barely one criticism about the game. The game got pretty much perfect scores and everyone agrees that it's a highlight of the generation. A few people have a small criticism in that a lot of the boss fights are colour variants of things you've fought over and over.

Nah, you're being greedy. Sorry Cory! Shouldn't have had any criticisms.
 
Yearsoflurking

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Honestly the lack of boss fights and the repetitiveness of giant/troll fights is starting to piss me off. It reminds me of halo 5s repetitive fights
 
Dark_Castle

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Killer751 said:
Probably by having actual talent.

I refuse to play the new GOW out of principal. I'm getting massive TLOU flashbacks at how people hype this game up just for being a dad simulator.

I'll stick with Yakuza, thanks.
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Are you insinuating that the current Sony Santa Monica team has no actual talent? That'd be quite an obscure opinion you have I must say.
 
ronaldthump

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CHC said:
I think some of the Troll fatigue could have been alleviated by incorporating a few Valkyries into the main story as boss fights. They were exceptional fights, and while I have no issue with their actual history being a sidequest, it would have been cool to have an actual introduction to at least one as part of the main plot.
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This is a great idea. Shame it wasn't included. It would have made for a good way to segue into the side missions. Offer a hook.
 
Betty

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It very much feels like the first God of War in the best possible way, it teases you, keeps the wider conflict as sequel material and only talks about the other Gods without showing you them.
 
JordanKZ

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If you consider that God of War was previously a franchise that lived and died by its boss encounters, the copy and paste routine they had in GoW 2018 is an utter disappointment.
 
ZeroX

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I mean technically he's right, looking at the numbers. God of War 1 has four full bosses. God of War 2018 has four full main story bosses. Then add on mini bosses like Trolls and Ancients and the optional Valkyrie. It's still not a lot though, in both quantity and quality.

While he is right that they're introducing Kratos to this world, and he may be new to the world, but the audience is coming with many games worth of expectations.
 
Absent Uncle

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Except for the first boss fight early on, any fight against big enemies in this game was so disappointing. I really love the combat when fighting smaller enemies, but once a big guys shows up it's so anticlimactic. I haven't finished the game because the last time I played I stopped as I was about to fight an ancient again and while it's not hard, it would only take a minute to do, I just don't fucking want to do it.
 
Blade Wolf

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WellbornWarrior said:
1-2 years for a single boss? Seems more in issue of inefficient development than time constraints to me.
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I want to say this too but feel like people are gonna jump on me saying ''you don't know shit about developing games!''

It's true I don't, but 1-2 years for a single boss is just stupid.

Saint-14 said:
See guys, even Cory doesn't consider the trolls bosses.
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So the story technically only has 3 bosses? I mean the final boss is really just Baldur, again.

That means the main story fights is basically just: Baldur ----> Dragon ----> Magni & Modi ----> Baldur
 
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Nostradamus

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Oct 28, 2017
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Honestly, like other people already mentioned, my only problem was with the Helheim boss battle because there was some serious build up (and the giant bird didn't help either). Other than that, I didn't mind the lack of bosses at all. Basically, there are 3 big boss battles in the game plus the Valkyries.
 
NediarPT88

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Anung said:
"What about optional bosses?"

"Just copy and paste the same Valkyrie 8 times"

"Genius!"
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That's kinda unfair tbh.

They all have their unique moves (3-4 different moves each) so you won't get overwhelmed and can learn them to fight Sigrun after.

Combat wise they were easily the best part in the game.
 
GustyGardner

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The Hel Bird better be a boss in the sequel. That thing was unsettling as fuck when I first noticed it. I was disappointed at the lack of even any detailed dialogue about it so when it showed up briefly in the ship escape sequence, I was all hyped up and ready for a battle. Alas, it wasn't meant to be.
 
MaximusPayne

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Being God of War and the lack of a boss fight with Odin or Thor was my only let down. The bosses and minibosses that were there were superb. No sweat here.
 
Mass_Pincup

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If that's the case, don't copy paste trolls at every turn.

You can't at the same time say that you wanted to make a leaner game while shoehorning troll boss fights every couple of hours.

Also pretty sure that most people would've been happy with no name boss fights creature as long as their moveset were different. No need to make it as cinematic as it was in GOW3.

Feels like it's a self inflicted constraint.
 
jarnet87

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They should of cut the 15 troll re-skin minibossss and added in 1 or 2 more real bosses.

The first GoW on PS2 was light on bosses, they increased it a significant amount in the 2nd and 3rd game. I imagine we will see more in the sequel.
 
Phendrift

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The greedy comment kind of rubs me the wrong way, I don't think it's fair to call people who wanted more bosses greedy.

But yeah, the game was way more intimate, so the focus on less characters and big bosses did help imo. I do expect the next ones to have more, just like the original trilogy
 
Decarb

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There's not a lot of characters. There's not a lot of bosses. And that's intentional, 100%. You look at the first God of War game, not a lot of bosses. Not a lot of characters. And I think that's good. I thought of God of War 3, I love it, but it's like a swan song for Greek mythology, so there's a lot of characters, which we spent two games building up relationships for. Now, we're introducing Kratos to a new world, and like a fish going into a tank, he needs to adjust. We need to leave the bag in the water for a little while before we release him in so he can go free.
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Most people expected this already but thank you for confirming it. Not wanting to blow your entire load on first game was intentional.
 
ghostcrew

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NediarPT88 said:
That's kinda unfair tbh.

They all have their unique moves (3-4 different moves each) so you won't get overwhelmed and can learn them to fight Sigrun after.

Combat wise they were easily the best part in the game.
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Would agree with this. The Valkyries are by far the best boss encounters in the game. They force you to actually fight with the skills and experience you've built up playing the rest of the game.

The other big boss fights are mainly pattern recognition. The Valkyries are difficult but they're incredibly fun. They elevate the combat so much. Love them.
 
ryushe

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I literally never thought "man, I sure would love more bosses" in my 40 hour playthrough.

I will say however, I don't quite love how the best fight is repeated numerous times.
 
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