• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,527
It really depends on the persons critcisms tbh. If your talking about Yams he might think it looks mediocre for more reasons than just "sticks to the formula".
Maybe the movie is really bad and the success will be very frontloaded as word of mouth spreads. Who really knows at this point.
But to not give it a chance and look down at the excitement because its only apparent accomplishment is having an asian cast star in a normal-ass movie about regular-ass things happening in a universally recognizable family setting, then that's just snobbery. We should all be so lucky to have world cultures assimilated into mass media that white people otherwise not only dominate but get to do all the fucking time at the exclusion of everybody else.
 

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
I swear, it's like some of you weren't around for All American Girl.

So, a film adaptation of a book that was based on an Asian author's actual life in Singapore is window dressing? Has his entire life been a lie to appeal to white audiences then?
Funny, I thought we were discussing the movie and not the book in this thread. You said it yourself: the movie is an adaptation. We'll see how much when it's released.

You've been pretty adamant that this movie isn't "about the Asian experience" and other forms of "this isn't a real Asian movie" throughout this thread, despite the fact:
  • It has an all-Asian cast and an Asian director.
  • It's based on a book written by an ethnically Chinese man who was born to one of the Singaporean "royalty" families that the book depicts.
  • The entire plot is how a Chinese-American woman is introduced to her boyfriend's family and the reaction is that all of the younger members of the family absolutely adore her for being this refreshing, very American person whereas all of the older members reject her for being not Asian enough (and the ways she is Asian, she's mainland Chinese, which shouldn't mingle with their stratosphere of social group).
  • The author's original purpose for writing the novel was to pull back the curtain on the culture and attitudes of this very small subset of an ethnic group in a very small nation in Asia--i.e. Chinese immigrants who came to Singapore decades before China went communist and became rich off of the backs of shipping, financial and other industries.
It's just embarrassing how you keep tripping over yourself screaming "NOT FOR ASIANS" when that is 100% what the book is, and (from what it sounds like) the movie as well. To me, it just looks like you see this movie is aimed more at women than the hyper-malecentric movies you seem to prefer, and conflate that with designed to appeal to white people.
HAHAHA...are you trying to shame me into supporting this movie or something? I couldn't care less that it centers on the experience of an Asian woman. I enjoyed the hell out of Joy Luck Club when it came out and all the movies Gong Li were in, but I can still recognize how problematic JLC is when it comes to reinforcing Asian male stereotypes. Can I enjoy Fresh Off the Boat while understanding that it's problematic as well or should Eddie Huang be blasted for not liking it for the same reasons?

From what I see in the trailers, CRA isn't any better in that regard except for the boyfriend, who is perfection personified while juxtaposed with Ken Jeong yet again playing another minstrel. Should I support Esther Ku too because her comedy is based on her experience? Or Chinese Burn? Every big movie in the West that features Asians is almost always centered on Asian women who are allowed to be 3 dimensional. That's a systemic issue I'm allowed to speak out against.

Yeah, nearly everyone involved in this is Asian yet Sparda is claiming "NOT ASIAN ENOUGH!" based on some personal, seemingly arbitrary, benchmark
Yeah, it's so Asian that it's constantly barraging us with being th Asian version of something white in the trailers. And so what if it is some personal and seemingly arbitrary benchmark? I don't have to support something just because it's Asian and that's not a bad thing.

I would be ecstatic if I was proven wrong when the movie's out. Until then, no thanks.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
Yeah, it's so Asian that it's constantly barraging us with being th Asian version of something white in the trailers. And so what if it is some personal and seemingly arbitrary benchmark? I don't have to support something just because it's Asian and that's not a bad thing.

Supporting the movie has nothing to do with your nonsense statement that the movie is just "Transposing yellow faces". I literally said I have no interest in seeing the movie, but I'm not trying to discredit it using bullshit reasons, then move the goalposts when I'm proven wrong (like snapcracken did with his post). You entire argument has been "Meh, not Asian enough for me" which is entirely different from "Meh, not my kind of movie"
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
Supporting the movie has nothing to do with your nonsense statement that the movie is just "Transposing yellow faces". I literally said I have no interest in seeing the movie, but I'm not trying to discredit it using bullshit reasons, then move the goalposts when I'm proven wrong (like snapcracken did with his post). You entire argument has been "Meh, not Asian enough for me" which is entirely different from "Meh, not my kind of movie"
To be fair, they're not the first to make that criticism:
Alfian Sa'at, a Singaporean poet and playwright, commented on the film's title referring to it as "Crazy Rich EAST Asians", further adding "Does a win for representation mean replacing white people with white people wannabes?"

Now I have no idea how valid this criticism is being I'm not Asian American, Asian, or Singaporean, nor have I read the book or watched the film.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,369
But to not give it a chance and look down at the excitement because its only apparent accomplishment is having an asian cast star in a normal-ass movie about regular-ass things happening in a universally recognizable family setting, then that's just snobbery. We should all be so lucky to have world cultures assimilated into mass media that white people otherwise not only dominate but get to do all the fucking time at the exclusion of everybody else.

Again it just depends who your talking about. Hopefully not me or Yams lol, because I had a similar thought process to him when watching the trailer.

With that said, I HOPE this movie does well and I hope it's good, because like you said Hollywood simply needs more diversity. I know what its like not being represented or when your ethnicity does pop up it's the same bullshit stereotypes. And tbh I'll probably end up seeing this movie down the line because like I said I'm a fan of romcoms.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
To be fair, they're not the first to make that criticism:
Alfian Sa'at, a Singaporean poet and playwright, commented on the film's title referring to it as "Crazy Rich EAST Asians", further adding "Does a win for representation mean replacing white people with white people wannabes?"

Now I have no idea how valid this criticism is being I'm not Asian American, Asian, or Singaporean, nor have I read the book or watched the film.

Yeah, I'm not Asian either, but I don't think the culture of excess detailed in the movie is from people trying to be white, anymore than skin bleaching in Asia is. It's one of those things that is just found across cultural boundaries. And I'd argue it's a win for representation because it's the type of story you'd typically see with white people, but with an Asian cast and setting.
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
Yeah, I'm not Asian either, but I don't think the culture of excess detailed in the movie is from people trying to be white, anymore than skin bleaching in Asia is. It's one of those things that is just found across cultural boundaries. And I'd argue it's a win for representation because it's the type of story you'd typically see with white people, but with an Asian cast and setting.
I don't know, it might be a crazy idea but perhaps Asians may have various and different in depth critiques about their own depictions than us outsiders can only view on the surface.​
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
I don't know, it might be a crazy idea but perhaps Asians may have various and different in depth critiques about their own depictions than us outsiders can only view on the surface.​
...Okay? What does that have to do with what I said? I admitted I wasn't Asian. I literally prefaced every statement with "I think" or "I". I didn't present anything as a fact.

My parents weren't born in the US (they're Nigerian), but I was so I'm only speaking based on my perspective of similar issues of representation
 

snapcracken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
619
I swear, it's like some of you weren't around for All American Girl.


Funny, I thought we were discussing the movie and not the book in this thread. You said it yourself: the movie is an adaptation. We'll see how much when it's released.


HAHAHA...are you trying to shame me into supporting this movie or something? I couldn't care less that it centers on the experience of an Asian woman. I enjoyed the hell out of Joy Luck Club when it came out and all the movies Gong Li were in, but I can still recognize how problematic JLC is when it comes to reinforcing Asian male stereotypes. Can I enjoy Fresh Off the Boat while understanding that it's problematic as well or should Eddie Huang be blasted for not liking it for the same reasons?

From what I see in the trailers, CRA isn't any better in that regard except for the boyfriend, who is perfection personified while juxtaposed with Ken Jeong yet again playing another minstrel. Should I support Esther Ku too because her comedy is based on her experience? Or Chinese Burn? Every big movie in the West that features Asians is almost always centered on Asian women who are allowed to be 3 dimensional. That's a systemic issue I'm allowed to speak out against.


Yeah, it's so Asian that it's constantly barraging us with being th Asian version of something white in the trailers. And so what if it is some personal and seemingly arbitrary benchmark? I don't have to support something just because it's Asian and that's not a bad thing.


So even though everything about the movie circles back around to being about an Asian person, or done by an Asian person, or some other connection to a person from Asia, it's still not Asian enough because you don't like the depiction of the male lead? And you're acting like I'm unfounded by saying that you're discounting the movie because it appeals to women and not you? Or that, now that I'm re-reading your post, Asian women get proper representation but Asian men don't? I, uh... what?

And at the same time you're complaining that it's advertising the Asian-ness of itself in its trailer, when it's literally just describing the setup of the movie. Nobody's asking you to support the movie if you don't like it. But to use this arbitrary nonsense of "it's only Asian if a. it appeals to me, and b. it has lots of three dimensional Asian men" is gonna get you some side-eye.

Also, since you're so obsessed with how Asian men are depicted in the movie, here are some of the male characters that were in the trailer that seem to be lining up to their book counterparts:
  • Nick Young, who you call "Superman", is supposed to be a hunk who's tired of all the glitz and glamour of the rich Singaporean lifestyle and as a result falls for a woman completely removed from that culture and in his own way is completely naive to how his parents and family would react, and how jarring that world will be to the love of his life.
  • Colin Khoo, Nick's best friend and the man getting married, suffers from chronic depression despite the facade he's forced to put on to the world and to his family. While he hasn't rejected the lifestyle that Nick left behind, he finds it extremely stressful and leans on Nick as a crutch and a confidant.
  • Bernard Tai, a spoiled piece of shit trust fund baby who likes to watch dog fights and burn his daddy's money on hookers, drugs and gambling. He's set up as sort of the type of person Nick and Colin would be if they weren't inherently "good", i.e. if they had embraced the rich person's lifestyle or had been spoiled more as kids.
  • Alistar Cheng, a heart-throb who spends his time as a movie star in the Hong Kong film industry. He's a good person but naive, and gets taken for a ride by a Chinese soap opera actress who just wants his money.
  • Oliver T'sien, seen in the trailer wearing a fly purple suit. He's sort of Rachel's guide to Nick's family, letting her know who's out to get her and how to deal with some of the more nasty relatives. It's later revealed (in the third book) that his family is actually several million in the red and unlike the rest of the socialites, has to rely on his job's income to survive and keep his parents afloat.
Other male characters not in the trailer but probably in the movie are Philip Young, Nick's dad who basically threw his hands up and left that life behind to live in Australia by himself, content; and Eddie Cheng, a try-hard cousin of Nick's who's always trying to move up in the world and is obsessed with being the star of the show, to the point where he's pretty much a joke (there are other characters that would need to be in the movie if they want to set up the other books to use as sequels, but I can't say for sure if they'll be in the movie).

Again, you seem to be conflating "doesn't appeal to me/appeals to women" with "isn't a good movie for Asians", to the point where you're now claiming Asian women get good enough representation, but what about the men? :( which reflects back poorly on you. Because it reads as "this movie doesn't deserve props because it helps female Asian representation, it only deserves props if it helps male Asian representation."

See the problem there?

To be fair, they're not the first to make that criticism:
Alfian Sa'at, a Singaporean poet and playwright, commented on the film's title referring to it as "Crazy Rich EAST Asians", further adding "Does a win for representation mean replacing white people with white people wannabes?"

Now I have no idea how valid this criticism is being I'm not Asian American, Asian, or Singaporean, nor have I read the book or watched the film.

I think that's a fair argument in that some of the characters in the book (and almost certainly the movie), emulate Westerners in how they raise their children and how they want to flaunt their social status. But if the movie is a proper adaption, it will also contain a fair share of characters who reject Western style to a certain degree; Nick's grandmother, seen in a promo shot WB released, is one of these characters. So it becomes the question of is it fair that the people that do get represented are some of the ones who want to be the most Westernized? The book sidesteps this by, as I said, having a fair amount of characters who act as sort of counterpoints to that. I'd be curious to see how the movie is able to address that concern, if at all.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
Yeah, I'm not Asian either, but I don't think the culture of excess detailed in the movie is from people trying to be white, anymore than skin bleaching in Asia is. It's one of those things that is just found across cultural boundaries. And I'd argue it's a win for representation because it's the type of story you'd typically see with white people, but with an Asian cast and setting.
WHAT THE MOTHER FUCK?

You're trying to gaslight and scold me about how I, as an Asian man, shouldn't have a problem with how I'm represented in media? And then you go on to say that yellow face on a typically white story is a win?
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
...Okay? What does that have to do with what I said? I admitted I wasn't Asian. I literally prefaced every statement with "I think" or "I". I didn't present anything as a fact.

My parents weren't born in the US (they're Nigerian), but I was so I'm only speaking based on my perspective of similar issues of representation
Because it doesn't negate some of the issues the poster could've had about it's "Asianess". Now that doesn't necessarily mean they're correct either, but as an outsider I feel woefully ill-equipped to debate it but that's just me.
 
Last edited:

Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,619
Ugh, as an Asian I want to support this movie. But I hate the concept of the movie and the messages I'm getting from the trailers.

That John Cho movie though, I'll travel to watch that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
WHAT THE MOTHER FUCK?

You're trying to gaslight and scold me about how I, as an Asian man, shouldn't have a problem with how I'm represented in media? And then you go on to say that yellow face on a typically white story is a win?

I'm not trying to gaslight you, nor do I think you're even using the term correctly. I'm just going based on the book and how the author's thoughts on various aspects of it, which I assume the movie is trying to convey as well. Going back to your main problem with the representation, specifically that it seems to be a "white" story replaced with Asians, I'm just saying it isn't unique to just Asians. It's the kind of thing that any ethnic group in the West, specifically the US, has dealt with, which isn't to discredit or downplay the unique issues Asians have to deal with.

My point is that stories that are both strongly steeped in the specific culture's identity and those which are seemingly "white" stories with predominantly non-white casts can both be examples of representation that we should see more of. This isn't an attempt negate your issues or concerns. I guess it's more a difference in what we consider as problematic representation
 

F2BBm3ga

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,083
I'm not trying to gaslight you, nor do I think you're even using the term correctly. I'm just going based on the book and how the author's thoughts on various aspects of it, which I assume the movie is trying to convey as well. Going back to your main problem with the representation, specifically that it seems to be a "white" story replaced with Asians, I'm just saying it isn't unique to just Asians. It's the kind of thing that any ethnic group in the West, specifically the US, has dealt with, which isn't to discredit or downplay the unique issues Asians have to deal with.

My point is that stories that are both strongly steeped in the specific culture's identity and those which are seemingly "white" stories with predominantly non-white casts can both be examples of representation that we should see more of. This isn't an attempt negate your issues or concerns. I guess it's more a difference in what we consider as problematic representation

Are you asian?

What makes a story a "white" story and not an asian story exactly?
 

DJChuy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,238
If Moviepass still lives, I'd watch it to support it. If not, maybe when it hits the dollar theaters.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
14,219
What I'm getting from this thread is that minorities should only be represented in media if they have a completely original and unique story to tell.
 

Megalosaro

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
431
Southern California
User Banned (2 Weeks): Hostility + Attempting to dictate the terms of inclusivity and diversity efforts. History of severe infractions.
WHAT THE MOTHER FUCK?

You're trying to gaslight and scold me about how I, as an Asian man, shouldn't have a problem with how I'm represented in media? And then you go on to say that yellow face on a typically white story is a win?

It's not gaslighting. You're being an idiot and need to stfu because you're doing more harm than good.

This movie will be probably alright. The plot is pretty generic. I think variants of it have been done in at least 3 dozen korean dramas. The only thing that would make it more generic is if the girl gets cancer. But the fact this is a Hollywood movie is pretty big. It IS progress one way or another. Would you rather that Asian men can only be leads in kung fu movies still.

Stop being a babyback bitch and take the W
 

F2BBm3ga

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,083
It's not gaslighting. You're being an idiot and need to stfu because you're doing more harm than good.

This movie will be probably alright. The plot is pretty generic. I think variants of it have been done in at least 3 dozen dramas. The only thing that would make it more generic is if the girl gets cancer. But the fact this is a Hollywood movie is pretty big. It IS progress one way or another. Would you rather that Asian men can only be leads in kung fu movies still.

Stop being a babyback bitch and take the W

Well that was aggressive
 

Pet

More helpful than the IRS
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,070
SoCal
You've been pretty adamant that this movie isn't "about the Asian experience" and other forms of "this isn't a real Asian movie" throughout this thread, despite the fact:
  • It has an all-Asian cast and an Asian director.
  • It's based on a book written by an ethnically Chinese man who was born to one of the Singaporean "royalty" families that the book depicts.
  • The entire plot is how a Chinese-American woman is introduced to her boyfriend's family and the reaction is that all of the younger members of the family absolutely adore her for being this refreshing, very American person whereas all of the older members reject her for being not Asian enough (and the ways she is Asian, she's mainland Chinese, which shouldn't mingle with their stratosphere of social group).
  • The author's original purpose for writing the novel was to pull back the curtain on the culture and attitudes of this very small subset of an ethnic group in a very small nation in Asia--i.e. Chinese immigrants who came to Singapore decades before China went communist and became rich off of the backs of shipping, financial and other industries.
It's just embarrassing how you keep tripping over yourself screaming "NOT FOR ASIANS" when that is 100% what the book is, and (from what it sounds like) the movie as well. To me, it just looks like you see this movie is aimed more at women than the hyper-malecentric movies you seem to prefer, and conflate that with designed to appeal to white people.

Well to be fair, that's not really made for Asian Americans... more like Asians in Asia. Which, btw, is still cool, and it's nice she's an Asian American.

A chick from Ohio that marries someone who is secretly the Crown Prince of Austria and then has to go back with her bf to Austria and then the movie centers about her adjusting to rich life in Austria is still going to be interesting but not really about Americans per se. It'll be about the Austrian royal family.

Like I don't need or want people to look at me and think, oh yeah, the experience of an Asian person born into an Asian family in Asia is going to be anything like the experience of an American person born into an Asian American family in America. Thankfully, this is mitigated by the main character being Asian American. Still, perpetual foreigner syndrome isn't really my cup of tea to propagate.

I actually like JLC in that there was much more story about being first/second gen in the US. The white worship/self hate was real, but that's an aspect of being a minority that is interesting to address.
 

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
So even though everything about the movie circles back around to being about an Asian person, or done by an Asian person, or some other connection to a person from Asia, it's still not Asian enough because you don't like the depiction of the male lead? And you're acting like I'm unfounded by saying that you're discounting the movie because it appeals to women and not you? Or that, now that I'm re-reading your post, Asian women get proper representation but Asian men don't? I, uh... what?

And at the same time you're complaining that it's advertising the Asian-ness of itself in its trailer, when it's literally just describing the setup of the movie. Nobody's asking you to support the movie if you don't like it. But to use this arbitrary nonsense of "it's only Asian if a. it appeals to me, and b. it has lots of three dimensional Asian men" is gonna get you some side-eye.

Also, since you're so obsessed with how Asian men are depicted in the movie, here are some of the male characters that were in the trailer that seem to be lining up to their book counterparts:
  • Nick Young, who you call "Superman", is supposed to be a hunk who's tired of all the glitz and glamour of the rich Singaporean lifestyle and as a result falls for a woman completely removed from that culture and in his own way is completely naive to how his parents and family would react, and how jarring that world will be to the love of his life.
  • Colin Khoo, Nick's best friend and the man getting married, suffers from chronic depression despite the facade he's forced to put on to the world and to his family. While he hasn't rejected the lifestyle that Nick left behind, he finds it extremely stressful and leans on Nick as a crutch and a confidant.
  • Bernard Tai, a spoiled piece of shit trust fund baby who likes to watch dog fights and burn his daddy's money on hookers, drugs and gambling. He's set up as sort of the type of person Nick and Colin would be if they weren't inherently "good", i.e. if they had embraced the rich person's lifestyle or had been spoiled more as kids.
  • Alistar Cheng, a heart-throb who spends his time as a movie star in the Hong Kong film industry. He's a good person but naive, and gets taken for a ride by a Chinese soap opera actress who just wants his money.
  • Oliver T'sien, seen in the trailer wearing a fly purple suit. He's sort of Rachel's guide to Nick's family, letting her know who's out to get her and how to deal with some of the more nasty relatives. It's later revealed (in the third book) that his family is actually several million in the red and unlike the rest of the socialites, has to rely on his job's income to survive and keep his parents afloat.
Other male characters not in the trailer but probably in the movie are Philip Young, Nick's dad who basically threw his hands up and left that life behind to live in Australia by himself, content; and Eddie Cheng, a try-hard cousin of Nick's who's always trying to move up in the world and is obsessed with being the star of the show, to the point where he's pretty much a joke (there are other characters that would need to be in the movie if they want to set up the other books to use as sequels, but I can't say for sure if they'll be in the movie).

Again, you seem to be conflating "doesn't appeal to me/appeals to women" with "isn't a good movie for Asians", to the point where you're now claiming Asian women get good enough representation, but what about the men? :( which reflects back poorly on you. Because it reads as "this movie doesn't deserve props because it helps female Asian representation, it only deserves props if it helps male Asian representation."

See the problem there?



I think that's a fair argument in that some of the characters in the book (and almost certainly the movie), emulate Westerners in how they raise their children and how they want to flaunt their social status. But if the movie is a proper adaption, it will also contain a fair share of characters who reject Western style to a certain degree; Nick's grandmother, seen in a promo shot WB released, is one of these characters. So it becomes the question of is it fair that the people that do get represented are some of the ones who want to be the most Westernized? The book sidesteps this by, as I said, having a fair amount of characters who act as sort of counterpoints to that. I'd be curious to see how the movie is able to address that concern, if at all.
I honestly don't know how much simpler I can say:

"Every big movie in the West that features Asians is almost always centered on Asian women who are allowed to be 3 dimensional."

It's not "what about the men," but "what about the Asian men." If you can't see the difference, then there's no point in arguing about this. Asian men are almost never depicted as fully realized human beings in most movies muchless ones featuring Asians.

You low-key call my post sexist, yet I'm not the one implying in any way that this movie is a "chick flick" as if I, or men in general, don't or can't enjoy these types of movies.

And unless you've seen the movie, you have no idea what's been adapted into the movie until it's been released.

It'll get it's props if it's good representation for ALL of us and not just Asian women because that's what's historically palatable for white audiences. Good representation of Asian men and women should be complementary and not exclusionary.
 

snapcracken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
619
I honestly don't know how much simpler I can say:

"Every big movie in the West that features Asians is almost always centered on Asian women who are allowed to be 3 dimensional."

It's not "what about the men," but "what about the Asian men." If you can't see the difference, then there's no point in arguing about this. Asian men are almost never depicted as fully realized human beings in most movies muchless ones featuring Asians.

You low-key call my post sexist, yet I'm not the one implying in any way that this movie is a "chick flick" as if I, or men in general, don't or can't enjoy these types of movies.

And unless you've seen the movie, you have no idea what's been adapted into the movie until it's been released.

It'll get it's props if it's good representation for ALL of us and not just Asian women because that's what's historically palatable for white audiences. Good representation of Asian men and women should be complementary and not exclusionary.

How is "what about the Asian men" any different than claiming representation doesn't count if it's about women? You keep claiming that Asian men are almost never depicted as fully realized human beings, as if to imply that Asian women get more representation, which I'm sure if you look at the numbers, is very much not the case, and even if that was the case, that shouldn't mean we get to discount a movie just because it has strong female representation.

And all I'm doing is re-stating what you've claimed so far. If that comes across as calling your post sexist, it's maybe because what you're saying is sexist.

On top of that, discounting the fact that there are many male characters, many of whom were in the trailer, as "well we don't know what they're like in the movie"... well isn't that what you're doing? You haven't seen the movie either, and yet are still claiming that it's doing Asian men dirty.

You are also attempting to circle back around to it being "palatable for white audiences" yet just throw that out there without really explicating at all, other than saying earlier it's a "universal" story. What exactly do you want, then, other than a movie with a mostly male cast, that appeals to men? Because your examples earlier are just that, which leads back to the initial point: you're literally discounting what this movie does and accomplishes in terms of representation, because you don't want female Asian representation, just male Asian representation. And if that sounds sexist, maybe you should re-evaluate your feelings here.
 

PhoncipleBone

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,338
Kentucky, USA
I honestly don't know how much simpler I can say:

"Every big movie in the West that features Asians is almost always centered on Asian women who are allowed to be 3 dimensional."

It's not "what about the men," but "what about the Asian men." If you can't see the difference, then there's no point in arguing about this. Asian men are almost never depicted as fully realized human beings in most movies muchless ones featuring Asians.

You low-key call my post sexist, yet I'm not the one implying in any way that this movie is a "chick flick" as if I, or men in general, don't or can't enjoy these types of movies.

And unless you've seen the movie, you have no idea what's been adapted into the movie until it's been released.

It'll get it's props if it's good representation for ALL of us and not just Asian women because that's what's historically palatable for white audiences. Good representation of Asian men and women should be complementary and not exclusionary.
Weren't you the one that said you don't care about how one film represented Asian women because the male portrayal wasn't as good?
He wasn't the one being low key sexist.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,020
Well to be fair, that's not really made for Asian Americans... more like Asians in Asia. Which, btw, is still cool, and it's nice she's an Asian American.

A chick from Ohio that marries someone who is secretly the Crown Prince of Austria and then has to go back with her bf to Austria and then the movie centers about her adjusting to rich life in Austria is still going to be interesting but not really about Americans per se. It'll be about the Austrian royal family.

Like I don't need or want people to look at me and think, oh yeah, the experience of an Asian person born into an Asian family in Asia is going to be anything like the experience of an American person born into an Asian American family in America. Thankfully, this is mitigated by the main character being Asian American. Still, perpetual foreigner syndrome isn't really my cup of tea to propagate.

I actually like JLC in that there was much more story about being first/second gen in the US. The white worship/self hate was real, but that's an aspect of being a minority that is interesting to address.

I know I'm going to be in the minority opinion about this, but I don't find the movie particularly problematic because of something that was touched upon in this post -- that is, the incredible class disparity between some East Asian populations. The community is doing itself a huge disservice when it fails to acknowledge that this is not an uncommon experience. Canada, for one, is filled with stories like this because of the multi-generational immigrant waves -- myself in one of them -- into the country.

I tend to view Crazy Rich Asians to be more of a class-based movie than anything else, and that the gender depiction isn't offensive or unbelievable in any way.
 

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
How is "what about the Asian men" any different than claiming representation doesn't count if it's about women? You keep claiming that Asian men are almost never depicted as fully realized human beings, as if to imply that Asian women get more representation, which I'm sure if you look at the numbers, is very much not the case, and even if that was the case, that shouldn't mean we get to discount a movie just because it has strong female representation.

And all I'm doing is re-stating what you've claimed so far. If that comes across as calling your post sexist, it's maybe because what you're saying is sexist.

On top of that, discounting the fact that there are many male characters, many of whom were in the trailer, as "well we don't know what they're like in the movie"... well isn't that what you're doing? You haven't seen the movie either, and yet are still claiming that it's doing Asian men dirty.

You are also attempting to circle back around to it being "palatable for white audiences" yet just throw that out there without really explicating at all, other than saying earlier it's a "universal" story. What exactly do you want, then, other than a movie with a mostly male cast, that appeals to men? Because your examples earlier are just that, which leads back to the initial point: you're literally discounting what this movie does and accomplishes in terms of representation, because you don't want female Asian representation, just male Asian representation. And if that sounds sexist, maybe you should re-evaluate your feelings here.
Or maybe you should actually read my posts instead of projecting whatever it is you think I'm saying in place of what I'm actually saying.

I don't know how you can post that mess with how how bookended my post. Like I completely don't know how the fuck your mind is making the leap from "mass marketed movies to white people that feature/headline Asians tend to feature fully realized Asian women with one dimensional Asian men" to "in general, Asian women have great representation in Hollywood."

I've also said many times that I'm going off the trailers and how it's promoted. You're the one going on and on about the book as if it's a page by page adaptation. My beef is that even when we have the keys to the car, WE STILL follow the same path that Hollywood put us on.

If you don't think there's a problem with how Asian men are represented, then just say so instead of white knighting.

Weren't you the one that said you don't care about how one film represented Asian women because the male portrayal wasn't as good?
He wasn't the one being low key sexist.
And you're not being low key about not actually reading my post about Joy Luck Club and Fresh Off the Boat.
 

F2BBm3ga

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,083
I honestly don't know how much simpler I can say:

"Every big movie in the West that features Asians is almost always centered on Asian women who are allowed to be 3 dimensional."

It's not "what about the men," but "what about the Asian men." If you can't see the difference, then there's no point in arguing about this. Asian men are almost never depicted as fully realized human beings in most movies muchless ones featuring Asians.

You low-key call my post sexist, yet I'm not the one implying in any way that this movie is a "chick flick" as if I, or men in general, don't or can't enjoy these types of movies.

And unless you've seen the movie, you have no idea what's been adapted into the movie until it's been released.

It'll get it's props if it's good representation for ALL of us and not just Asian women because that's what's historically palatable for white audiences. Good representation of Asian men and women should be complementary and not exclusionary.

I actually tottally get what your saying and where you are coming from. However, i dont see how this is a "white" story over an asian story
 

snapcracken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
619
Or maybe you should actually read my posts instead of projecting whatever it is you think I'm saying in place of what I'm actually saying.

I don't know how you can post that mess with how how bookended my post. Like I completely don't know how the fuck your mind is making the leap from "mass marketed movies to white people that feature/headline Asians tend to feature fully realized Asian women with one dimensional Asian men" to "in general, Asian women have great representation in Hollywood."

I've also said many times that I'm going off the trailers and how it's promoted. You're the one going on and on about the book as if it's a page by page adaptation. My beef is that even when we have the keys to the car, WE STILL follow the same path that Hollywood put us on.

If you don't think there's a problem with how Asian men are represented, then just say so instead of white knighting.


And you're not being low key about not actually reading my post about Joy Luck Club and Fresh Off the Boat.

This is a direct quote from you:

"Every big movie in the West that features Asians is almost always centered on Asian women who are allowed to be 3 dimensional."

It's not "what about the men," but "what about the Asian men." If you can't see the difference, then there's no point in arguing about this. Asian men are almost never depicted as fully realized human beings in most movies muchless ones featuring Asians.

How are you trying to spin this to "I never said Asian women have greater representation in Hollywood!"?

Plus, you say you're going off of the trailer, but when I list out all of the men in the trailer you straight up ignore in favor of the ones that fit your narrative, you pretend like those don't matter.

All you've done is throw a fit about how this movie doesn't count because something something Asian men, and then when anyone points out a. that's sorta sexist that you're acting like female Asian representation doesn't matter as much as male Asian representation (this is literally what you're doing!) or b. your assumption is unfounded because you're going off of very little and there is evidence to imply a completely different reality, you act like the other person is projecting and then complain about this movie appealing to white people.

You don't want a discussion about this movie. You just want this movie to be ignored so that people celebrate male-centric movies that appeal to you and focus on male Asians, not female Asians, instead.
 

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
I actually tottally get what your saying and where you are coming from. However, i dont see how this is a "white" story over an asian story
Because this story is generally told in movies in white settings with white actors for white people. For better or worse, now there's an Asian cast in Asian locations, but there's nothing uniquely Asian about it for me. If window dressing is enough for some, more power to them, but my expectations are a bit higher than that.

SRG01 made a goodpoint as well about the movie surrounding issues of class. I agree with that assessment and promoting issues of class over race is another way to white wash it. It's not the only take, but it doesn't make it an invalid one. We can talk about how class plays a part in inter-ethnic conflicts too, but that's not something I see addressed in the marketing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,593

F2BBm3ga

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,083
Because this story is generally told in movies in white settings with white actors for white people. For better or worse, now there's an Asian cast in Asian locations, but there's nothing uniquely Asian about it for me. If window dressing is enough for some, more power to them, but my expectations are a bit higher than that.

Just cause a story might be similar to a white person's story, doesn't make it exclusive to white people. White people arent the only ones experiencing a story like this. With that said, what are all the white stories that are exactly like this one. You should have a ton of examples being that you classify it as a white thing thus there being a ton of examples to deem so. I'll wait.
 

snapcracken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
619
Because this story is generally told in movies in white settings with white actors for white people. For better or worse, now there's an Asian cast in Asian locations, but there's nothing uniquely Asian about it for me. If window dressing is enough for some, more power to them, but my expectations are a bit higher than that.

SRG01 made a goodpoint as well about the movie surrounding issues of class. I agree with that assessment and promoting issues of class over race is another way to white wash it. It's not the only take, but it doesn't make it an invalid one. We can talk about how class plays a part in inter-ethnic conflicts too, but that's not something I see addressed in the marketing.

You still haven't explained what would make a movie "Asian" as opposed to a "white" story, other than to point at male-centric movies that also are movies that you could abstract to a level high enough that they work with white actors in "white settings."
 

-COOLIO-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,125
Because this story is generally told in movies in white settings with white actors for white people. For better or worse, now there's an Asian cast in Asian locations, but there's nothing uniquely Asian about it for me. If window dressing is enough for some, more power to them, but my expectations are a bit higher than that.

SRG01 made a goodpoint as well about the movie surrounding issues of class. I agree with that assessment and promoting issues of class over race is another way to white wash it. It's not the only take, but it doesn't make it an invalid one. We can talk about how class plays a part in inter-ethnic conflicts too, but that's not something I see addressed in the marketing.
i actually see it a positive that it's a "white story" with asian characters. the way you make a "white story" less white, is you tell the same story with other races, then it just becomes a story. the whole reason we have this "acting white" shit with minorities is because of the stupid belief that our genetics mean we're supposed to adhere to certain cultural behaviour.
 

Pet

More helpful than the IRS
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,070
SoCal
I know I'm going to be in the minority opinion about this, but I don't find the movie particularly problematic because of something that was touched upon in this post -- that is, the incredible class disparity between some East Asian populations. The community is doing itself a huge disservice when it fails to acknowledge that this is not an uncommon experience. Canada, for one, is filled with stories like this because of the multi-generational immigrant waves -- myself in one of them -- into the country.

I tend to view Crazy Rich Asians to be more of a class-based movie than anything else, and that the gender depiction isn't offensive or unbelievable in any way.

Yeah it's just small things (for me) anyway. I don't find the movie problematic. I jam kinda rolling my eyes at the cliche about marrying rich and OMIGOD NEW WORLD!!111!!! I mean, I know it's a thing, I just think it's a weird fantasy to push on women (lol). Then again, I always found the obsession with the wealthy/elite/etc really weird. Like all that royal wedding business, reality shows, etc.

Anyway, I'll see this for Wu, but I'm not particularly excited about it. I prefer action movies anyway, or slice of life/comedy (like Fresh Off the Boat).
 

-COOLIO-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,125
Yeah it's just small things (for me) anyway. I don't find the movie problematic. I jam kinda rolling my eyes at the cliche about marrying rich and OMIGOD NEW WORLD!!111!!! I mean, I know it's a thing, I just think it's a weird fantasy to push on women (lol). Then again, I always found the obsession with the wealthy/elite/etc really weird. Like all that royal wedding business, reality shows, etc.

Anyway, I'll see this for Wu, but I'm not particularly excited about it. I prefer action movies anyway, or slice of life/comedy (like Fresh Off the Boat).
i don't think it's trying to push the fantasy so much as it is trying to appeal to people's base desires.

wealth has been an attractive asset since the dawn of man.
 

TickleMeElbow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,668
Because this story is generally told in movies in white settings with white actors for white people. For better or worse, now there's an Asian cast in Asian locations, but there's nothing uniquely Asian about it for me. If window dressing is enough for some, more power to them, but my expectations are a bit higher than that.

SRG01 made a goodpoint as well about the movie surrounding issues of class. I agree with that assessment and promoting issues of class over race is another way to white wash it. It's not the only take, but it doesn't make it an invalid one. We can talk about how class plays a part in inter-ethnic conflicts too, but that's not something I see addressed in the marketing.

Why does it have to be uniquely Asian though?

I don't give a shit about this movie whatsoever, but I don't think stories about Asians have to be all about what it means to be Asian or whatever. Like if the same story was made in Japan or some shit, it would just be....a movie lol. Seems like the classic Cinderella type narrative judging by the trailer, and there's plenty of those made everywhere. Also, it does seem like the movie is tackling the whole "banana" thing, so there appears to be some element of Asian American issues in there.

Idk to me the movie looks dumb, but I don't think it's harmful judging by the trailer alone.
 

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
This is a direct quote from you:

How are you trying to spin this to "I never said Asian women have greater representation in Hollywood!"?

Plus, you say you're going off of the trailer, but when I list out all of the men in the trailer you straight up ignore in favor of the ones that fit your narrative, you pretend like those don't matter.

All you've done is throw a fit about how this movie doesn't count because something something Asian men, and then when anyone points out a. that's sorta sexist that you're acting like female Asian representation doesn't matter as much as male Asian representation (this is literally what you're doing!) or b. your assumption is unfounded because you're going off of very little and there is evidence to imply a completely different reality, you act like the other person is projecting and then complain about this movie appealing to white people.

You don't want a discussion about this movie. You just want this movie to be ignored so that people celebrate male-centric movies that appeal to you and focus on male Asians, not female Asians, instead.
I literally said that there should be good Asian female and Asian male representation and that it shouldn't be mutually exclusive like it has been. Stop ascribing Asian male patriarchal stereotypes onto me.

For the record, I didn't like Better Luck Tomorrow, Gook was a very LA Korean American story, and My Chinese Life is a very Chinese American story of a guy that grew up in the 80's. All were independent films and not mass marketed. Big fucking difference.

If the movie is good enough, it'll stand on it's own merits and anything I say in either direction will not affect it.

Again, if you don't think there's a problem with how Asian men are represented, then just say so instead of white knighting.

Just cause a story might be similar to a white person's story, doesn't make it exclusive to white people. White people arent the only ones experiencing a story like this. With that said, what are all the white stories that are exactly like this one. You should have a ton of examples being that you classify it as a white thing thus there being a ton of examples to deem so. I'll wait.

You're asking me to name white centered movies like this one as if we don't exist in a medium dominated by whiteness? Really?

i actually see it a positive that it's a "white story" with asian characters. the way you make a "white story" less white, is you tell the same story with other races, then it just becomes a story. the whole reason we have this "acting white" shit with minorities is because of the stupid belief that our genetics mean we're supposed to adhere to certain cultural behaviour.
That's something to aspire to, but we ain't there yet. You don't overwrite 400+ years of white supremacy with a couple of movies.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
i actually see it a positive that it's a "white story" with asian characters. the way you make a "white story" less white, is you tell the same story with other races, then it just becomes a story. the whole reason we have this "acting white" shit with minorities is because of the stupid belief that our genetics mean we're supposed to adhere to certain cultural behaviour.

Let's see if he'll accuse you of gaslighting as well, because I basically said the same thing. The whole idea of "white" stories is because of the lack of representation and predominantly white casts being considered the "default". There's absolutely nothing inherently white about the story. There's no even anything inherently Western about it.

Power of Sparda, would this be considered a "white" story simply because there's nothing uniquely Asian about it?
better-luck-tomorrow-poster.jpg
 

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
Why does it have to be uniquely Asian though?

I don't give a shit about this movie whatsoever, but I don't think stories about Asians have to be all about what it means to be Asian or whatever. Like if the same story was made in Japan or some shit, it would just be....a movie lol. Seems like the classic Cinderella type narrative judging by the trailer, and there's plenty of those made everywhere. Also, it does seem like the movie is tackling the whole "banana" thing, so there appears to be some element of Asian American issues in there.

Idk to me the movie looks dumb, but I don't think it's harmful judging by the trailer alone.
I don't entirely disagree with you about it not having to be THE Asian breakthrough movie. I've seen this type of shit every 5 or so years for the last 30 years about a breakthrough movie for us and it's always "you gotta support this or there won't be more of it" as if we're obligated to no matter how shit it is for us. This is just another movie in that cycle. In all my years, the best movie of that type is Moana, but even then, the characterization of her mother was beyond light.

Either way, I'm sick and tired of being pushed to support Asian media just because it's made by or features Asians. If the movie is good, I'll eat shit. If it isn't, I won't be back to say I told you so. Some people don't seem to want to understand that.

Let's see if he'll accuse you of gaslighting as well, because I basically said the same thing. The whole idea of "white" stories is because of the lack of representation and predominantly white casts being considered the "default". There's absolutely nothing inherently white about the story. There's no even anything inherently Western about it.

Power of Sparda, would this be considered a "white" story simply because there's nothing uniquely Asian about it?
better-luck-tomorrow-poster.jpg
A presumably black guy is telling me, an Asian guy, how to feel about how Asian men, and Asian women by extension, are represented in media. What would you call that?

If you need me to quantify and qualify the Asian experience, the difference in the Asian-American experience will be lost on you, judging from your question.
 
Last edited:

PRrambo_

PlayStation.jif
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,870
The GF loves rom coms and wants to see this. She has watched plenty of B List Horror Movies with me, so Ima go with her.

Getting to help support Asian Representation is a bonus.