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Adnor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,957
By the way : Veth Bernatto is an anagram for Nott the brave.
It's more than just that:

c9qPcac.png
 

TemplaerDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,204
Lots of setup, but I'm excited to see where this all goes. It's kind of nostalgic and reminding me of the very beginning of campaign 1 with them all traveling underground for a long time. Should be fun and let Matt spring some creepy monsters on them too. Also, Jester's "stop it" was the cutest thing. Wingman Nott.

The second half of the episode was a lot of starts and stops, but i'm glad they got all the logistical stuff out of the way and can just go into adventure mode for the next few episodes.

I hope everybody comes back with a shiny new feat next episode. I'm with Sam on nobody taking Lucky this campaign because it breaks the game and they all have the dodecahedron anyway. I was just looking at Liam's face the whole time Sam was going on his anti-luck tirade, haha

The part in the intro shows the snake people from that island they already went to.

I've got this feeling that they should probably think twice about using that dodeca any more, but they probably will. I'm firmly anti-luck just because it's a boring feat ha ha ha.
 

Arrrammis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,142
Just for fun, here's some feats that I could see them taking:
I think Fjord or Nott would do well with the Actor feat, especially Nott since she disguises herself every time they go around in a city.
Skilled at mimicry and dramatics, you gain the following benefits:
  • Increase your Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
  • You have an advantage on Deception and Performance checks when trying to pass yourself off as a different person.
  • You can mimic the speech of another person or the sounds made by other creatures. You must have heard the person speaking, or heard the creature make the sound, for at least 1 minute. A successful Insight check contested by your Deception check allows a listener to determine that the effect is faked

Caleb could take the Elemental Adept feat (since he focuses heavily on fire spells), but honestly I think it would be cool if he took the linguist feat. He's already expressed interest in creating a cipher like Avantica's, and the feat offers that as well as some additional languages that he may have learned by reading.

You have studied languages and codes, gaining the following benefits:
  • Increase your Intelligence score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
  • You learn three languages of your choice.
  • You can ably create written ciphers. Others can't decipher a code you create unless you teach them, they succeed on an Intelligence check (DC equal to your Intelligence score + your proficiency bonus), or they use magic to decipher it.

I could see Nott taking the sharpshooter feat, or Yasha taking great weapon master, but honestly those almost feel as boring as Lucky to me, so... meh. Jester might take the Infernal constitution feat (resistance to poisin, ice, and fire, advantage against poisins), considering the kind of danger she's gotten in before, but outside of those there's not any feats I can find that fit amazingly well.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Aha. Good catch.
Are the Krynn(?) in league with the Drow? It seems like a really bad idea to chase after them with the Dodecahedron in tow. They really should have gone back to the mage tower to seek advice.
I think they are Drow. The people who attacked Zidash to get the dodecahedron were Drow, they dig underground (and seem to be working with/for that "crawling king" worm demigod), and Yasha even said that the capital city has the skies above it permanently darkened. That last one feels very much like something Drow would do if they came to the surface.
 

Lexad

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,046
*Travis during the Nott reveal*: "Okay, cool cool... my backstory was I had a captain with a Texan accent..."



Maybe they'll meet Clarotta's cousin.
Let's not be so reductive of
Just for fun, here's some feats that I could see them taking:
I think Fjord or Nott would do well with the Actor feat, especially Nott since she disguises herself every time they go around in a city.
Skilled at mimicry and dramatics, you gain the following benefits:
  • Increase your Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
  • You have an advantage on Deception and Performance checks when trying to pass yourself off as a different person.
  • You can mimic the speech of another person or the sounds made by other creatures. You must have heard the person speaking, or heard the creature make the sound, for at least 1 minute. A successful Insight check contested by your Deception check allows a listener to determine that the effect is faked

Caleb could take the Elemental Adept feat (since he focuses heavily on fire spells), but honestly I think it would be cool if he took the linguist feat. He's already expressed interest in creating a cipher like Avantica's, and the feat offers that as well as some additional languages that he may have learned by reading.

You have studied languages and codes, gaining the following benefits:
  • Increase your Intelligence score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
  • You learn three languages of your choice.
  • You can ably create written ciphers. Others can't decipher a code you create unless you teach them, they succeed on an Intelligence check (DC equal to your Intelligence score + your proficiency bonus), or they use magic to decipher it.

I could see Nott taking the sharpshooter feat, or Yasha taking great weapon master, but honestly those almost feel as boring as Lucky to me, so... meh. Jester might take the Infernal constitution feat (resistance to poisin, ice, and fire, advantage against poisins), considering the kind of danger she's gotten in before, but outside of those there's not any feats I can find that fit amazingly well.

Not exactly exciting but Warcaster is such an important feat, especially for the concentration heavy cleric.

Matt may also have new feats he is testing, and some of the spellcasters may take his custom feat that allows second level as a bonus action. Matt's Flash Recall would be so good on Caleb (allows you to swap out a spell you have prepared for one that you do not). Caleb would also get a lot of mileage out of Mystic Conflux that allows you to attune to 4 items as well as having adavntage on arcana checks investigating the nature of a magical item.

I could see Caleb going with the Prodigy Human feat

Alert is always a solid feat

I could see Yasha going Mage Slayer especially with the magicians judge
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Talks Machina has been uploaded onto the G&S youtube channel in an unlisted playlist with the After Dark segments included. Not sure if this was purposeful or not, so if you aren't a subscriber and had any particular episodes you wanted to watch, now's probably the time.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7atuZxmT954R5TjnUcGSHDhUJuvytmtD
Reductive of... Fjord's backstory? It was a joke, and Travis himself said he had a very thin backstory and that's why he was freaking out about his arc.
It's kind of funny when while watching Talks the players will confirm things that people will get scolded for noticing and talking about by the community beforehand.
 
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modestb

Alt-Account
Banned
Jan 24, 2019
1,126
Just finished the episode from last week. Amazing stuff, I'm already back in after the bit of a drag that Fjord's arc was.

Level 8 is also the level VM started out as right? Just as we're heading into the underdark as well hahaha.. I'm enjoying the symmetry here of the M9 following in their footsteps, albeit in a very different fashion.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Just finished the episode from last week. Amazing stuff, I'm already back in after the bit of a drag that Fjord's arc was.

Level 8 is also the level VM started out as right? Just as we're heading into the underdark as well hahaha.. I'm enjoying the symmetry here of the M9 following in their footsteps, albeit in a very different fashion.
My attention has been fully grabbed back too. They're selling the immediacy and personal stakes more already.

I think they were 8-9 at the beginning of the VM stream. They didn't do milestone leveling last campaign so they weren't all the same. I wonder if they're actually going to the Underdark, or just underground. The Kryn Drow seem to be living on the surface currently, so I'm not sure. The Underdark is like a different plane of existence that you can access in some "soft" underground places like caves right?
 

modestb

Alt-Account
Banned
Jan 24, 2019
1,126
...I wonder if they're actually going to the Underdark, or just underground. The Kryn Drow seem to be living on the surface currently, so I'm not sure. The Underdark is like a different plane of existence that you can access in some "soft" underground places like caves right?

Unless that is a special feature to Exandria, no the Underdark is a natural part to the world. It's just an incredibly deep and vast cave network, although there is a magical field present that shapes things that typically live there that make them weaker/sensitive on the surface. Drow arms and armor disintegrate if kept out of the underdark for too long, for instance.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Unless that is a special feature to Exandria, no the Underdark is a natural part to the world. It's just an incredibly deep and vast cave network, although there is a magical field present that shapes things that typically live there that make them weaker/sensitive on the surface. Drow arms and armor disintegrate if kept out of the underdark for too long, for instance.
I see.

I swear I remember Matt describing it as gradually entering another plane at some point on VM's journey into or out of the Underdark, but maybe that's specific to Exandria or I'm just misremembering.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
I think you might be thinking of the portal they found that went into the Far Realm where the Beholder came from
I don't think so, but maybe.

I remember Matt explaining it to Laura as a gradual transition as they were traveling through the tunnels, but honestly, with all the CR I've watched I could be remembering a dream I had or something.
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,937
The past three episodes have been really great, with this most recent one being one of my top three of the campaign. I loved seeing Nott and Caleb be more open with their backstories. As someone who has been at times really tepid on Nott as a character, this episode did a lot to make me really enjoy her. Caleb, as always, frustrates me but communicating with the group is a huge step. Even Fjord, who has been a frustrating character during his arc, had some really nice moments where he showed a commitment to helping Caleb and Nott.

I might be crazy, but Beau really seems to be stepping up as almost the most emotionally mature/intelligent character in the group, and her growth seems to have been quiet but consistent. I really think she might be my favorite character from both seasons.

I do wonder how the fight would have gone if they had confronted those mages. I don't know much about high level wizards, but with a group of seven versus two, would it have really gone so bad? Caleb has very little health and defense, so I have to think that Yasha, Beau, and Fjord would be able to hit them fairly consistently in melee.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
The past three episodes have been really great, with this most recent one being one of my top three of the campaign. I loved seeing Nott and Caleb be more open with their backstories. As someone who has been at times really tepid on Nott as a character, this episode did a lot to make me really enjoy her. Caleb, as always, frustrates me but communicating with the group is a huge step. Even Fjord, who has been a frustrating character during his arc, had some really nice moments where he showed a commitment to helping Caleb and Nott.

I might be crazy, but Beau really seems to be stepping up as almost the most emotionally mature/intelligent character in the group, and her growth seems to have been quiet but consistent. I really think she might be my favorite character from both seasons.

I do wonder how the fight would have gone if they had confronted those mages. I don't know much about high level wizards, but with a group of seven versus two, would it have really gone so bad? Caleb has very little health and defense, so I have to think that Yasha, Beau, and Fjord would be able to hit them fairly consistently in melee.

Depends on level, stats, and spells equipped. A successful Crowd Control spell or 2 (Sleep, Blind, etc) and a couple of well placed high damage spells and things could go south quite quickly despite having larger numbers. The reason Caleb isn't absolutely demolishing at all times is a combination of Liam playing to the character and his trying not to catch the rest of the group in collateral damage (most of the time at least). Two wizards defending themselves against a larger group of attackers don't have either of those problems.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Especially if those wizards are dabbling in dunamancy, I think crowd control would be a definite problem for the current group. Slow, maybe that new Sickening Radiance spell damaging and exhausting them in an area, followed up by a high level Fireball for cleanup. Things could get ugly quickly.
 

Sensei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,518
Depends on level, stats, and spells equipped. A successful Crowd Control spell or 2 (Sleep, Blind, etc) and a couple of well placed high damage spells and things could go south quite quickly despite having larger numbers. The reason Caleb isn't absolutely demolishing at all times is a combination of Liam playing to the character and his trying not to catch the rest of the group in collateral damage (most of the time at least). Two wizards defending themselves against a larger group of attackers don't have either of those problems.
yeah youre right about that

something that helps me put Caleb's power into perspective is when he fucking burned just about everyone on Avantika's ship to cinders in a moment of confusion and exasperation. he's very strong
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
yeah youre right about that

something that helps me put Caleb's power into perspective is when he fucking burned just about everyone on Avantika's ship to cinders in a moment of confusion and exasperation. he's very strong

They very much are the epitome of Glass Cannon but yes, in the right situation with a good selection of spells available they can wreak a lot of havoc very quickly.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,235
The past three episodes have been really great, with this most recent one being one of my top three of the campaign. I loved seeing Nott and Caleb be more open with their backstories. As someone who has been at times really tepid on Nott as a character, this episode did a lot to make me really enjoy her. Caleb, as always, frustrates me but communicating with the group is a huge step. Even Fjord, who has been a frustrating character during his arc, had some really nice moments where he showed a commitment to helping Caleb and Nott.

I might be crazy, but Beau really seems to be stepping up as almost the most emotionally mature/intelligent character in the group, and her growth seems to have been quiet but consistent. I really think she might be my favorite character from both seasons.

I do wonder how the fight would have gone if they had confronted those mages. I don't know much about high level wizards, but with a group of seven versus two, would it have really gone so bad? Caleb has very little health and defense, so I have to think that Yasha, Beau, and Fjord would be able to hit them fairly consistently in melee.

I think the group would've been toast fairly quickly if they'd tried. I mean one of the elven mages started the Order a few hundred years ago. Dude could probably kill half the team while having breakfast.

Not really with you on the Beau assessment. I think she's trying to grow and be self-aware, but she seems far from emotionally intelligent yet. Generally I think Jester is the most emotionally mature of the group despite her jokester appearance, maybe a toss-up with Caduceus. They're both the ones to typically seek out others in the party who are having a rough time emotionally.
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,937
I think the group would've been toast fairly quickly if they'd tried. I mean one of the elven mages started the Order a few hundred years ago. Dude could probably kill half the team while having breakfast.

Not really with you on the Beau assessment. I think she's trying to grow and be self-aware, but she seems far from emotionally intelligent yet. Generally I think Jester is the most emotionally mature of the group despite her jokester appearance, maybe a toss-up with Caduceus. They're both the ones to typically seek out others in the party who are having a rough time emotionally.

I agree that Jester is good at providing emotional support to the group, and I was wrong to not include her as one of the most emotionally mature members of the group. I do sometimes wonder if she is particularly aware of her own emotions though, as it is fairly apparent that she is somewhat repressing a degree of emotional pain, which is probably not the healthiest option in the long term.

I think with Beau, I view her interactions with Caleb and Jester as a sign that she understands their pain and is trying to provide a safe space for them to talk about it, at least with her. Even her immediate impulse to compliment Nott on her bravery for dealing with the ocean, or how Nott has rubbed off on the group seemed to be in service of building up Nott's sense of self worth to the group. I was probably wrong to say she is the most emotionally mature or intelligent, but I think she is taking pretty great strides. I honestly wouldn't have pegged her to be so non judgemental back in the early episodes.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Beau is trying to be more emotionally available but she still whiffs sometimes. Like when Caleb was telling her that they needed to be more careful, especially around wizards, because he doesn't want to get the group killed if they draw attention from the powerful people that are after him. Her "you know Caleb, you don't get to choose who cares about you" responses felt really tone deaf, and kind of like a cliche she heard somewhere else and recited, rather than being the emotionally intelligent response. She's trying, but she's definitely not there yet.

Marisha/Beau also has this tendency to make subtext and implication into very clearly stated text and draw attention to it in a way that feels really unnecessary, clumsy, and undercutting to me.
 
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timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,937
Beau is trying to be more emotionally available but she still whiffs sometimes. Like when Caleb was telling her that they needed to be more careful, especially around wizards, because he doesn't want to get the group killed if they draw attention from the powerful people that are after him. Her "you know Caleb, you don't get to choose who cares about you" responses felt really tone deaf, and kind of like a cliche she heard somewhere else and recited, rather than being the emotionally intelligent response. She's trying, but she's definitely not there yet.

Marisha/Beau also has this tendency to make subtext and implication into very clearly stated text and draw attention to it in a way that feels really unnecessary, clumsy, and undercutting to me.

That's very interesting. I viewed Caleb and Beau's discussion very differently. It seemed to me that Beau thought Caleb was using the possibility that his issues would get the M9 killed as an excuse to keep a degree of emotional distance from them. His position being that if he was not close with them then they would not get involved in hill problems and would be safe. Beau was countering that position by saying that they already were friends, and that they all would risk their lives to help Caleb if he opened up. She seemed to be stating that Caleb withholding from the group accomplished nothing, and was only causing him more pain.

As for your second point, Beau is absolutely blunt when she has a point she wants to make, even if the point is simple or obvious. I think she really tries to get people to acknowledge obvious issues and points so that they are dealt with in some way. She is absolutely tactless and can be inconsistent with what issues she thinks need to be called out, but that seems pretty human. I will say I prefer her tendency to state the obvious and force discussions over someone like Fjord's refusal to really engage in an emotional way for long stretches of time.
 

Lexad

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,046
yeah youre right about that

something that helps me put Caleb's power into perspective is when he fucking burned just about everyone on Avantika's ship to cinders in a moment of confusion and exasperation. he's very strong
I am a level 9 bladesinger in a party of martials. I actively hold back my spells in fights and stick to sword fighting or buff spells unless I have to otherwise I would complete most encounters with a well placed fireball or firewall. High level wizard is no joke. If one of them had played that in vox machina at the higher levels they would have put Scanlan to shame.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
That's very interesting. I viewed Caleb and Beau's discussion very differently. It seemed to me that Beau thought Caleb was using the possibility that his issues would get the M9 killed as an excuse to keep a degree of emotional distance from them. His position being that if he was not close with them then they would not get involved in hill problems and would be safe. Beau was countering that position by saying that they already were friends, and that they all would risk their lives to help Caleb if he opened up. She seemed to be stating that Caleb withholding from the group accomplished nothing, and was only causing him more pain.

As for your second point, Beau is absolutely blunt when she has a point she wants to make, even if the point is simple or obvious. I think she really tries to get people to acknowledge obvious issues and points so that they are dealt with in some way. She is absolutely tactless and can be inconsistent with what issues she thinks need to be called out, but that seems pretty human. I will say I prefer her tendency to state the obvious and force discussions over someone like Fjord's refusal to really engage in an emotional way for long stretches of time.
That's the thing though. Caleb saying "hey let's not be reckless and do things like antagonize/show our entire hand to powerful wizards for no reason in the future because I don't want any of us to get hurt or killed" wasn't him pulling away, it was him showing that he cared about they group's safety. That's why I said she whiffed it because she completely misinterpreted what he was saying and ended up giving him a bit of a chiding lecture about him not opening up and caring even though that's what he was literally just doing. Then she screamed at him when he said never mind and walked away, lol. "Cool, Caleb! COOL!" It was obvious that Caleb was frustrated by her reaction after their scene because they were talking past each other.

I'm also not a fan of Fjord's complete wishy washiness about almost everything, but I prefer Caduceus's version of bluntness and getting people to talk about things. Beau's way often feels a little too on-the-nose because she doesn't really weave it into the conversation as much as she states the theme or subtext of what just happened out loud for the audience. Like she's giving commentary on the scene rather than being a part of it. And those moments usually end with her saying "I'm just saying...", an awkward silence, and then a change of subject from someone else. Maybe she's just expertly playing awkward conversation, but it's not my favorite thing.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
That's the thing though. Caleb saying "hey let's not be reckless and do things like antagonize/show our entire hand to powerful wizards for no reason in the future because I don't want any of us to get hurt or killed" wasn't him pulling away, it was him showing that he cared about they group's safety. That's why I said she whiffed it because she completely misinterpreted what he was saying and ended up giving him a bit of a chiding lecture about him not opening up and caring even though that's what he was literally just doing. Then she screamed at him when he said never mind and walked away, lol. "Cool, Caleb! COOL!" It was obvious that Caleb was frustrated by her reaction after their scene because they were talking past each other.

I'm also not a fan of Fjord's complete wishy washiness about almost everything, but I prefer Caduceus's version of bluntness and getting people to talk about things. Beau's way often feels a little too on-the-nose because she doesn't really weave it into the conversation as much as she states the theme or subtext of what just happened out loud for the audience. Like she's giving commentary on the scene rather than being a part of it. And those moments usually end with her saying "I'm just saying...", an awkward silence, and then a change of subject from someone else. Maybe she's just expertly playing awkward conversation, but it's not my favorite thing.

It was an awkward conversation because Caleb was meandering to his point and she inferred the wrong meaning. Which I don't think was that strange because when he panics he's tended to go into "me me me" mode. It was definitely a case of miscommunication but they equally played a role in that.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,235
That's the thing though. Caleb saying "hey let's not be reckless and do things like antagonize/show our entire hand to powerful wizards for no reason in the future because I don't want any of us to get hurt or killed" wasn't him pulling away, it was him showing that he cared about they group's safety. That's why I said she whiffed it because she completely misinterpreted what he was saying and ended up giving him a bit of a chiding lecture about him not opening up and caring even though that's what he was literally just doing. Then she screamed at him when he said never mind and walked away, lol. "Cool, Caleb! COOL!" It was obvious that Caleb was frustrated by her reaction after their scene because they were talking past each other.

I think Caleb had two things on his mind there -- self-survival because the group was acting too rashly, which is always on the top of his list, and not wanting to relive his past again where his actions got people he loved killed.

Beau of course was completely oblivious to both points. As I think Marisha said in Talks, they were both talking past each other instead of actually communicating.
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,937
I think Caleb had two things on his mind there -- self-survival because the group was acting too rashly, which is always on the top of his list, and not wanting to relive his past again where his actions got people he loved killed.

Beau of course was completely oblivious to both points. As I think Marisha said in Talks, they were both talking past each other instead of actually communicating.

I think Beau has a very specific problem with how Caleb views the group. I think she views Caleb as someone who views his relationships with others from only his own perspective, if that makes any sense. I think, in their conversation, Caleb said something along the lines of "It's harder of leave or lose people when you care about them." To me this indicates that Caleb thinks so long as he keeps his distance regarding his past and his issues, the group is safer and he can leave with no repercussions. I think Beau focused on that and was trying to tell him that regardless of how he sees the group, they see him as a friend and would want to help him no matter what.

One major question I have, and have probably missed, is if anyone is actually looking for Caleb? I know he is worried about being found, but he seems like a pretty small loose end in the long run. Even if he went to the capital and told his story, would anyone take his word over Trent's? I just wonder how much of his anxiety is actually founded and how much of it is PTSD or general trauma.

I should watch more Talks, it sounds like they actually get into some good analysis of the characters. One of these days I'm going to have to invest in subscribing or something.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,235
Between the Sheets is back on, and...I have no idea who this Logic dude is, and maybe Foster should've said that at the start. If they're trying to branch out to non-CR people for interviews, I'm not sure this guy was the right start. Tthe only Logic I know is a musician and I'm pretty sure it's not this guy.

I think Beau has a very specific problem with how Caleb views the group. I think she views Caleb as someone who views his relationships with others from only his own perspective, if that makes any sense. I think, in their conversation, Caleb said something along the lines of "It's harder of leave or lose people when you care about them." To me this indicates that Caleb thinks so long as he keeps his distance regarding his past and his issues, the group is safer and he can leave with no repercussions. I think Beau focused on that and was trying to tell him that regardless of how he sees the group, they see him as a friend and would want to help him no matter what.

One major question I have, and have probably missed, is if anyone is actually looking for Caleb? I know he is worried about being found, but he seems like a pretty small loose end in the long run. Even if he went to the capital and told his story, would anyone take his word over Trent's? I just wonder how much of his anxiety is actually founded and how much of it is PTSD or general trauma.

I should watch more Talks, it sounds like they actually get into some good analysis of the characters. One of these days I'm going to have to invest in subscribing or something.

I don't think Caleb would disagree with Beau's viewpoint. In fact he said last episode, "I've been using all of you." My read on Caleb is that he's starting to view some in the group fondly, and trusting them to an extent, but for him the relationship dynamic is still purely transactional in nature, and I'm not sure that will change any time soon. Beau's desire for emotional "realness" is going to fall on deaf ears for him.

We don't really know how Caleb escaped, do we? I guess that would better inform whether people are really gunning for him or not. I imagine he's a bit paranoid, but not totally wrong to be either considering how powerful these people are.
 

Sensei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,518
Between the Sheets is back on, and...I have no idea who this Logic dude is, and maybe Foster should've said that at the start. If they're trying to branch out to non-CR people for interviews, I'm not sure this guy was the right start. Tthe only Logic I know is a musician and I'm pretty sure it's not this guy.
lol its the same one
the rapper
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,862
Haha, well see...I didn't even know. If Foster even said who he is, it was a blip. Anyway, that's cool and a fairly big win for them.

Not so big of a win when you consider than Foster and Logic are old friends. You can even see Foster, Ashley, Laura, Travis, Steve Blum and i think Mary Elizabeth too on this Logic album cover (he plays D&D with Foster, Ashley, Blum and Mary) :
 

Wunder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,795
That's the thing though. Caleb saying "hey let's not be reckless and do things like antagonize/show our entire hand to powerful wizards for no reason in the future because I don't want any of us to get hurt or killed" wasn't him pulling away, it was him showing that he cared about they group's safety. That's why I said she whiffed it because she completely misinterpreted what he was saying and ended up giving him a bit of a chiding lecture about him not opening up and caring even though that's what he was literally just doing. Then she screamed at him when he said never mind and walked away, lol. "Cool, Caleb! COOL!" It was obvious that Caleb was frustrated by her reaction after their scene because they were talking past each other.

I'm also not a fan of Fjord's complete wishy washiness about almost everything, but I prefer Caduceus's version of bluntness and getting people to talk about things. Beau's way often feels a little too on-the-nose because she doesn't really weave it into the conversation as much as she states the theme or subtext of what just happened out loud for the audience. Like she's giving commentary on the scene rather than being a part of it. And those moments usually end with her saying "I'm just saying...", an awkward silence, and then a change of subject from someone else. Maybe she's just expertly playing awkward conversation, but it's not my favorite thing.

I'm with you on the Beau stuff, that last discussion reminded me of the bowl stuff whereby Beau/Marisha completely misinterpreted the point of Caleb/Liam's cautiousness. She kinda went back into the mode of "We'll protect each other from the world because we're good friends now" while Caleb was already talking past that and how to self-preserve as a group. I think Marisha also mentioned the fact that she didn't realize that Caleb/Liam specifically didn't see how Beau handled Yussa and as a result there was a bit of a disconnect where she was mad that he wasn't happy while he didn't even know what was happening.

I can't wait for them to get to Xhorhas! This whole tunnel thing is a bit meandering, and I'm not sure how they can efficiently travel hundreds (thousands?) of miles with no sense of direction, supplies or real sense of purpose, but I suppose Matt can handwave it away and they'll find their way to where they want to go. I hope Matt throws in a couple Hook Horrors/Umber Hulks in there for a nice throwback.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

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Oct 25, 2017
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It was an awkward conversation because Caleb was meandering to his point and she inferred the wrong meaning. Which I don't think was that strange because when he panics he's tended to go into "me me me" mode. It was definitely a case of miscommunication but they equally played a role in that.
Sure, and I wouldn't call either Beau or Caleb the most emotionally intelligent members of the group, which was the argument made that I disagreed with and the reason I gave this as a counterexample in the first place.
I think Caleb had two things on his mind there -- self-survival because the group was acting too rashly, which is always on the top of his list, and not wanting to relive his past again where his actions got people he loved killed.

Beau of course was completely oblivious to both points. As I think Marisha said in Talks, they were both talking past each other instead of actually communicating.
Yep. They're both awkward characters that have trouble understanding and communicating with others. It's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black or just Beau actually talking to herself when she was giving Caleb a lecture on putting emotional walls up.
I'm with you on the Beau stuff, that last discussion reminded me of the bowl stuff whereby Beau/Marisha completely misinterpreted the point of Caleb/Liam's cautiousness. She kinda went back into the mode of "We'll protect each other from the world because we're good friends now" while Caleb was already talking past that and how to self-preserve as a group. I think Marisha also mentioned the fact that she didn't realize that Caleb/Liam specifically didn't see how Beau handled Yussa and as a result there was a bit of a disconnect where she was mad that he wasn't happy while he didn't even know what was happening.

I can't wait for them to get to Xhorhas! This whole tunnel thing is a bit meandering, and I'm not sure how they can efficiently travel hundreds (thousands?) of miles with no sense of direction, supplies or real sense of purpose, but I suppose Matt can handwave it away and they'll find their way to where they want to go. I hope Matt throws in a couple Hook Horrors/Umber Hulks in there for a nice throwback.
It was just tonally off. Like a wife talking to her husband about how funds are tight and they need to budget better because the kids need clothes, and they still haven't done some needed grocery shopping this month, and he comes back at her with a platitude about how families love each other so it will all work out. It's like... okay? But I'm talking practicalities and logistics of doing actions to show that love over here. Why am I getting a lecture?

I'm wondering if they're going to unintentionally hitch a ride on a giant worm or something while down there. I hope Matt does some more homebrewed monsters in Xhorhas too. You can have a lot of fun with monstrosities, and I still remember his crazy stitched-together monsters from the VM Underdark arc.
 

Jest

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Oct 28, 2017
4,565
Sure, and I wouldn't call either Beau or Caleb the most emotionally intelligent members of the group, which was the argument made that I disagreed with and the reason I gave this as a counterexample in the first place.

Of *this* group, I definitely would call Beau one of the most emotionally intelligent and a miscommunication caused by Caleb's long winded meandering in search of a point doesn't indicate that she lacks emotional intelligence. It illustrates that their natural communication styles don't line up. Those communication styles don't have to line up for her to be emotionally intelligent. Beau is one of the only characters in the group that seeks to emotionally support anyone else in the party when she sees it. Most of the others have their party favorites that they give platitudes towards but go completely silent when others are struggling or suffering.

Going back and watching the conversation again... Caleb just does a poor job of expressing the why instead of just the what. He keeps saying that his enemy will kill him and will kill them but he never supports why that is or explains/reiterates the strength of that person. Meanwhile Beau doesn't have that information and operates on the assumption that they'll overcome that challenge as they have all previous ones. With that in mind while watching, Beau's responses are completely clear in intent. To assuage the fear by saying your friends will be there.

Now from our perspective there are factors that we know that give Caleb's fear more weight than it would to Beau. Not the least of which is that no matter how strong M9 gets, their enemies will be comparably strong because it's a game with a DM that is literally crafting encounters to give challenge. So it's easy to read Caleb's side of the exchange but from an in-world perspective he just reads as having his usual paranoid and fear laden response to things happening beyond his direct control.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

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Of *this* group, I definitely would call Beau one of the most emotionally intelligent and a miscommunication caused by Caleb's long winded meandering in search of a point doesn't indicate that she lacks emotional intelligence. It illustrates that their natural communication styles don't line up. Those communication styles don't have to line up for her to be emotionally intelligent. Beau is one of the only characters in the group that seeks to emotionally support anyone else in the party when she sees it. Most of the others have their party favorites that they give platitudes towards but go completely silent when others are struggling or suffering.

Going back and watching the conversation again... Caleb just does a poor job of expressing the why instead of just the what. He keeps saying that his enemy will kill him and will kill them but he never supports why that is or explains/reiterates the strength of that person. Meanwhile Beau doesn't have that information and operates on the assumption that they'll overcome that challenge as they have all previous ones. With that in mind while watching, Beau's responses are completely clear in intent. To assuage the fear by saying your friends will be there.

Now from our perspective there are factors that we know that give Caleb's fear more weight than it would to Beau. Not the least of which is that no matter how strong M9 gets, their enemies will be comparably strong because it's a game with a DM that is literally crafting encounters to give challenge. So it's easy to read Caleb's side of the exchange but from an in-world perspective he just reads as having his usual paranoid and fear laden response to things happening beyond his direct control.
Even without outside knowledge from a viewer's perspective, if "hey we need to be more careful in the future. I'm worried about people who want me dead, and I don't want to die or you all to get killed on my behalf because of unnecessary risks" is the what, then the why should be very obvious. He doesn't want the group to be put into unnecessary danger. I think most emotionally intelligent people would get that, and appreciate it coming from someone who is bad at expressing emotion or affection. Not lecture them and then berate them as they walk away.

And speaking of in-game characters not knowing about things, like Wunder brought up, why would Beau assume Caleb knew about how she handled the situation with the wizard when he was waiting outside. She seemed personally hurt that he didn't give her validation ("I think I did a damn good job" or whatever it was she said with a quaver in her voice). I guess that was from Marisha not realizing how things went down in the moment, but it's not like those kinds of interpersonal misunderstandings are out of character for Beau.

I'm not saying Beau is terrible or anything, just that she's not really emotionally intelligent from my view. More like she's just emotional and fragile under her awkward, hard surface and seeks validation. Being third or fourth most emotionally intelligent out of a group of seven people who are constantly lying, distant, and talking past each other doesn't really mean much to me. She's trying to be better and to be more open, but she's still missing signals and projecting her own feelings onto others a lot.
 

eyeball_kid

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Oct 25, 2017
10,235
Removing the phrase "emotionally intelligent" which I think people are applying to different things, I think Beau is empathetic of others, sometimes. But she's not very insightful and able to read between the lines and connect the dots. I guess you might call that social intelligence.

Honestly I find Beau a bit incongruous as a character. She's supposed to be very streetwise, yet she isn't able to navigate social interactions very well. Her gambit with the Plank King paid off, but just as often she screws up social encounters. That doesn't say to me that she's someone with street smarts.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

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Removing the phrase "emotionally intelligent" which I think people are applying to different things, I think Beau is empathetic of others, sometimes. But she's not very insightful and able to read between the lines and connect the dots. I guess you might call that social intelligence.

Honestly I find Beau a bit incongruous as a character. She's supposed to be very streetwise, yet she isn't able to navigate social interactions very well. Her gambit with the Plank King paid off, but just as often she screws up social encounters. That doesn't say to me that she's someone with street smarts.
Sure, that's a good way of putting it.

I think she plays up being gritty and streetwise, but in practice she acts more like the person who has been cloistered away in a library with monks for the past few years that she is. All the streetwise stuff is her recounting her own backstory, and I have a feeling if we were able to see the scenes of her bootlegging her dad's liquor as a teenager she would be just as awkward, missing social cues, and making bad deals back then too. She was a rich girl playing at being at being from the streets to get a reaction out of her strict dad. Her peacocking about what a rebel badass she is just reads as more of her constructed personality she has erected to keep others at a distance.
 

timedesk

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Oct 27, 2017
4,937
I want to apologize for saying I found Beau to be the most emotionally intelligent in my earlier post. There really was nothing to be gained by using a term like most, which is more combative than I intended. I think Jest did a very good job of expressing what I meant in their post. I was only trying to say that I found it interesting that the so called "asshole" of the group seemed to be the one taking the most time to check on each member of the group. I really shouldn't have said most intelligent, but maybe I could argue she is making the most effort to improve.

I do think the Caleb argument from two episodes back was more complicated than Caleb raising legitimate fears, and Beau being unresponsive. I truly think Caleb is being extremely paranoid about his value and danger to his abusers, and that unless he threatened them directly they would likely just view him as a harmless burnout.

For the first time in a stretch of episodes, I am really liking the entire party's interactions and dynamics. These last three episodes have been really fun and I am really looking forward to them getting more involved in the Empire's conflict.
 
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Wunder

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Oct 25, 2017
5,795
I want to apologize for saying I found Beau to be the most emotionally intelligent in my earlier post. I think Jest did a very good job of expressing what I meant in their post. I was only trying to say that I found it interesting that the so called "asshole" of the group seemed to be the one taking the most time to check on each member of the group. I really shouldn't have said most inteliginet, but maybe I could argue she is making the most effort to improve.

I do think the Caleb argument from two episodes back was more complicated than Caleb raising legitimate fears, and Beau being unresponsive. I truly think Caleb is being extremely paranoid about his value and danger to his abusers, and that unless he threatened them directly they would likely just view him as a harmless burnout.

I will say though for the first time in a stretch of episodes, I am really liking the entire party's interactions and dynamics. These last three episodes have been really fun and I am really looking forward to them getting more involved in the Empire's conflict.

Yes you raise a good point about Caleb's paranoia - we as the audience have no idea how valid his claims are, what really happened in the asylum and whether or not Trent is actively pursuing him. However until those claims are proved false, we can't deny his fears because we have no real reason to believe it false. Mages are extremely dangerous and should be naturally feared, especially the Archmages. It's slightly different than just a monster or even powerful warrior, because of how intelligent and manipulative mages can be with both their words and abilities.

I'm so stoked for the campaign because it finally feels like they're taking on their first full arc. Not to say the previous adventures have been bad or anything, but prior to Fjord's pirate journey, it was almost a monster of a week type deal, taking on odd jobs and finding a handful of bread crumbs but nothing of substance. Even Fjord's adventure ended somewhat prematurely, sure Avantika was introduced and died, but ultimately nothing really changed. Now we have active stakes, a multitude of possible outcomes and two very clear sides of a deep faction war.
 

Sonicbug

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Oct 26, 2017
1,415
The Void, MA
Talks tonight dropped all kinda confirmations on tiny things the community noticed on a review of older episodes. Both Sam and Liam playing the long con, and Liam's ability to stay in character is nuts.
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,937
Yes you raise a good point about Caleb's paranoia - we as the audience have no idea how valid his claims are, what really happened in the asylum and whether or not Trent is actively pursuing him. However until those claims are proved false, we can't deny his fears because we have no real reason to believe it false. Mages are extremely dangerous and should be naturally feared, especially the Archmages. It's slightly different than just a monster or even powerful warrior, because of how intelligent and manipulative mages can be with both their words and abilities.

I'm so stoked for the campaign because it finally feels like they're taking on their first full arc. Not to say the previous adventures have been bad or anything, but prior to Fjord's pirate journey, it was almost a monster of a week type deal, taking on odd jobs and finding a handful of bread crumbs but nothing of substance. Even Fjord's adventure ended somewhat prematurely, sure Avantika was introduced and died, but ultimately nothing really changed. Now we have active stakes, a multitude of possible outcomes and two very clear sides of a deep faction war.

I totally agree, it is really cool to see them drawn in to larger arcs, while still keeping the stakes rooted in personal motivation. I feel like this is a good way to ease the group into larger world events without having to make them suddenly completely selfless or invested in the state of the government.

Fjord's arc did really feel like it kind of just stopped, but I trust Matt and the others to come up with an interesting hook for them down the line, providing Fjord doesn't get himself killed picking a fight with a badass historian.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

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Oct 25, 2017
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That Talks Machina episode last night was amazing. Obviously they can't do a deep character dive like that every week, but there were so many great questions and answers to flesh out Caleb and Nott. Stuff like the "take them out!" quote from 20-something episodes ago completely went over my head, and Veth's quirks and personality traits all being heightened in her goblin form makes a lot of sense.. TM is a good show.
I want to apologize for saying I found Beau to be the most emotionally intelligent in my earlier post. There really was nothing to be gained by using a term like most, which is more combative than I intended. I think Jest did a very good job of expressing what I meant in their post. I was only trying to say that I found it interesting that the so called "asshole" of the group seemed to be the one taking the most time to check on each member of the group. I really shouldn't have said most intelligent, but maybe I could argue she is making the most effort to improve.

I do think the Caleb argument from two episodes back was more complicated than Caleb raising legitimate fears, and Beau being unresponsive. I truly think Caleb is being extremely paranoid about his value and danger to his abusers, and that unless he threatened them directly they would likely just view him as a harmless burnout.

For the first time in a stretch of episodes, I am really liking the entire party's interactions and dynamics. These last three episodes have been really fun and I am really looking forward to them getting more involved in the Empire's conflict.
No need to apologize at all. Sorry if I came across as combative when arguing against your point, but I enjoy when you bring up feelings like that and we can have a discussion about our own interpretations and cite sources from the episodes as reasoning. The great thing about CR is that there is so much character material to work from for fans.

Fandoms become boring when things go uninterrogated because theres a canon way to look at everything.
 
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eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,235
That Talks Machina episode last night was amazing. Obviously they can't do a deep character dive like that every week, but there were so many great questions and answers to flesh out Caleb and Nott. Stuff like the "take them out!" quote from 20-something episodes ago completely went over my head, and Veth's quirks and personality traits all being heightened in her goblin form makes a lot of sense.. TM is a good show.

I'm of split mind about it. As a fan I love hearing those inside details about Nott, but on the other hand I feel like...wouldn't this be better to reveal within the game naturally? Sam is much more open about "secrets" than Liam and others are. But regardless yeah, there were some great insights. And the fact that it was just coincidence that Nott's whole fake name she used 20 episodes ago was the same as Caleb's real name just blew my mind.
 
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Dream Machine

Dream Machine

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I'm of split mind about it. As a fan I love hearing those inside details about Nott, but on the other hand I feel like...wouldn't this be better to reveal within the game naturally? Sam is much more open about "secrets" than Liam and others are. But regardless yeah, there were some great insights. And the fact that it was just coincidence that Nott's whole fake name she used 20 episodes ago was the same as Caleb's real name just blew my mind.
Ideally this would all be covered in the campaign wrap up show if it didn't come up in the game. But even then there isn't enough time to cover everything, so a lot of these smaller character moments aren't big enough to warrant being covered. Also, things aren't fresh in the players' minds, so it's a lot of them reading the question, going "oh... is that what happened 70 episodes ago?", and then giving a pretty vague answer/dick joke. It's nice to hear their thoughts on this stuff while it's still at the forefront of their mind.

So I agree I would prefer that this came up during the game, but if they skipped it on Talks and then it never did come up during the main show, then we probably would never get such personalized, insightful coverage of these moments.