Critical Role |OT| Is It Thursday Yet?

SilkySm00th · Jun 28, 2019

If we're gonna extrapolate what could have gone differently - was anyone else baffled why they didn't just... fuckin try to ruin the dude with damage? Like a gigantic fireball from the fire loving fire boi wouldn't have hurt anyone but Oban up in the air and could have done a lot to disrupt his ability to read. Knots sneak attack damage alone over two turns could have combined with other damage to get it done. It felt like everyone was trying so hard to be clever that they all stopped actually thinking straight...
Sam even said quietly to Laura when she was beating herself up over missed whips and spells that he should have just attacked and i'm shoving cookies in my mouth at 2 am half whisper yelling at my phone "OBVIOUSLY!!"

There is no denying the dice were just..... hateful... this game as well. So. Many. 1s.

SilentMike03 said:
Yeah, I thought it was really great how Caleb at the end was basically like "we need to stop being assholes and just shoot straight from now on".

Honestly it was like the whole group. Everyone was firmly in the "Yah we gotta tell people about this" kick either because of the danger involved or to get ahead of rumors or to be good envoys of the Bright Queen... like every single member was on the same trip except for Fjord.
And that almost being dead by someone you called a friend thing must have struck that very specific chord with our green dude here cause he was so deeply ready to just bounce forever. Curious how they'll talk that out during the next game.

Sonicbug · Jun 28, 2019

Matt probably had a few different scenarios inside this scenario written out for how to write out Yasha for the time being. The last time she said she knew Matt had something planned but didn't know how it was going to go down, and likewise the same thing this time. The dice rolls were not kind during that fight. What if she made the saving throw? What if they knocked her out and dragged her out? What if the whip had worked?

People saying it wasn't in character for the group to run missed Fjord's scree about her maybe having been evil this entire time, and the fact that despite the fact the M9 are closer than they used to be they're still super selfish people. Plus, they knew they were out of time and outmatched, Fjord and Cad almost died. It was either run or TPK. All things considered, it still felt pretty organic.

Arrrammis · Jun 28, 2019

Man, what a tense session. It's a cool way to get Yasha away from the party for a while, but still keep her relevant if/when she returns. Maybe this whole debackle will push the party to think about what they want to do in broad terms and consider consequences rather than just running around chasing whatever pops up in the moment? There's Cad's thing here in the mountains to look forward to, but without some major stretches from Matt, I don't see many of the M9's personal or backstory connections coming back in to play any time soon.

P.S. Ashley's whole demeanor once Yasha got controlled is why I pretty much never use a dominate person type spell against players - no agency, the player is just sitting there basically watching, and rolling a few dice when the DM tells them to, often against their will. It might have been better if it was shorter, but that was like two hours of her sitting there.

SilentMike03 · Jun 28, 2019

Nah, they made the right call, but it's just the dice were against them. Oban was just reading from a tablet, it's not like he would have had to roll for concentration. And with him flying so high, they wouldn't have been able to do enough to finish him. If anything, I thought Jester should have immediately gone to try and banish Oban and maybe Fjord could've went with his spell that creates total darkness so that Oban couldn't read the tablet.

SilkySm00th · Jun 28, 2019

Sonicbug said:
People saying it wasn't in character for the group to run missed Fjord's scree about her maybe having been evil this entire time, and the fact that despite the fact the M9 are closer than they used to be they're still super selfish people. Plus, they knew they were out of time and outmatched, Fjord and Cad almost died. It was either run or TPK. All things considered, it still felt pretty organic.

Truth and one of the reasons the chat being so onery feels extra shite. Feels like they give these players a hard time for not acting on things they know as players or like that they feel like the group is abandoning Ashley instead of a rage beast psychopathic barbarian. Who wouldn't fuckin run from that??? They lost their dmg sponge and 1/3rd of their physical dmg as a party in one fell swoop. Time to GO, people.

SilentMike03 · Jun 28, 2019

SilkySm00th said:
Honestly it was like the whole group. Everyone was firmly in the "Yah we gotta tell people about this" kick either because of the danger involved or to get ahead of rumors or to be good envoys of the Bright Queen... like every single member was on the same trip except for Fjord.
And that almost being dead by someone you called a friend thing must have struck that very specific chord with our green dude here cause he was so deeply ready to just bounce forever. Curious how they'll talk that out during the next game.

Yeah, the majority were on the honesty kick, but the sense I got from Caleb was that he was proposing a broader change in how they operate. When he said that they messed up and needed to accept responsibility, I took that as him telling the group that they all need to grow up and stop fucking around.

It's honestly kind of funny looking back at how different the group is now compared to when they were pirates and everyone was cool with Fjord breaking the 2nd seal.

Smiley90 · Jun 28, 2019

Definitely one of the tensest episodes of this campaign though, I don't remember an episode where this many single rolls going another way would've completely changed things. The fact that it felt this way just further supports Matt as a masterful storyteller

Jamh · Jun 28, 2019

Honestly, I don't understand why some people are questioning why they were in the tomb. They found out Oban was part of a conspiracy to open portals to the Abyss around Xhorhas and they needed to find out what he was up to. The Laughing Hand was going to be released whether they showed up or not, nothing they did was something that Oban couldn't do himself (or hire someone to do), and at least this way they at least had a chance to stop it. Maybe I'm just a glass half full kind of person.

Also, I see some people bringing up Matt not using the Laughing Hand's fear effect but unless I missed something I thought it only activated at the beginning of its' turn and only affected anyone within 15ft of it. By the end I think everyone either saved or was outside its' range at the start of its' turn so they didn't have to roll, I'm not 100% sure that's how it worked though.

SilentMike03 · Jun 28, 2019

Yeah they were chasing down a lead and they got played like a fiddle by Oban. Really their biggest mistake was overestimating themselves and not asking for help with the original stake out of the shop. If they had back up, it's possible Oban never makes it out of that town and this never happens. They were so concerned with winning favor that they tried to go it alone and it backfired.

The fear effect seemed to be inconsistent. Matt also forgot about the shadow doggers for a round, so I just chalk it up as to him losing track.

SilkySm00th · Jun 28, 2019

SilentMike03 said:
Yeah, the majority were on the honesty kick, but the sense I got from Caleb was that he was proposing a broader change in how they operate. When he said that they messed up and needed to accept responsibility, I took that as him telling the group that they all need to grow up and stop fucking around.

It's honestly kind of funny looking back at how different the group is now compared to when they were pirates and everyone was cool with Fjord breaking the 2nd seal.

I feel like Caleb especially feels like there is a hope for some legit clout and like... a home? ... in Xory-land. His wizard buddy, his big moves with the BQ, their house. I wouldn't be surprised if he feels more like a good and productive person that is helping rather than hurting for the first time in a long time here and definitely doesn't want to screw it up.

If this somehow manages to shake the shit out of this whole group to make them stop lying and acting fucking ridiculous whenever confronted when any authority at all it'll be well worth it. Getting these rascals to just talk straight and not try to sound smart or clever or hide their intentions or outright lie is like pulling teeth. It was nice to see them all immediately think to reach out to the Bright Queen with this info instead of shuddering with fear of consequences like a group of 13 year olds.

I'm into this Forge they are heading towards right now. Real bad.

timedesk · Jun 28, 2019

Jamh said:
Honestly, I don't understand why some people are questioning why they were in the tomb. They found out Oban was part of a conspiracy to open portals to the Abyss around Xhorhas and they needed to find out what he was up to. The Laughing Hand was going to be released whether they showed up or not, nothing they did was something that Oban couldn't do himself (or hire someone to do), and at least this way they at least had a chance to stop it. Maybe I'm just a glass half full kind of person.

This is actually what I'm most curious about. Why did Oban waste all his time with the Abyssal anchors and working with the Empire if he could just casually fly through that entire dungeon an awaken the Laughing Hand? Why did he want Yasha there, could he have just triggered her at any point? The M9 feel responsible, but it feels like the only thing they are guilty of is failing to stop Oban when he was reading from the Tablet.

Dream Machine · Jun 28, 2019

killerrin said:
You can see their character sheets on CritRollStats.

Here are the spellcasters for Level 9:
Caleb
Nott
Jester
Caduceus
Fjord

Gotcha.

I think for the Clerics that's just a list of all the spells they have used in game, but they can still potentially pick whatever they want from the overall cleric spell list at the beginning of each day. I'm sure part of it is them trying to keep their spell picks in character to give themselves a sense of identity, as well, rather than picking all of the most advantageous spells every day. Some of it is just out of habit as well, I'm sure. Both Clerics and Druids have a huge spell list, and I'm sure it's much easier to go with the default and maybe switch out one or two utility spells rather than going over the whole list and optimizing each morning.

Nott and Fjord are stuck with what they pick when leveling up, and Caleb learns new spell upon leveling up, but can also copy spells into his spellbook to learn them outside of leveling up as well.

SilentMike03 · Jun 28, 2019

SilkySm00th said:
I'm into this Forge they are heading towards right now. Real bad.

The forge thing actually felt like it came out of left field and I was super confused by Cad's enthusiasm for it. It seems like a bit of a stretch to think they're connected in any way. I think both Cad and Jester should try asking their gods about some guidance in dealing with this situation.

timedesk said:
This is actually what I'm most curious about. Why did Oban waste all his time with the Abyssal anchors and working with the Empire if he could just casually fly through that entire dungeon an awaken the Laughing Hand? Why did he want Yasha there, could he have just triggered her at any point? The M9 feel responsible, but it feels like the only thing they are guilty of is failing to stop Oban when he was reading from the Tablet.

You're assuming that Oban was only working on one thing. It's possible the anchors are unrelated to LH and are just a secondary objective for him. Maybe he was trying to weaken the barriers between this plane and the Abyssal plane for the eventual release of the Crawling King. Don't forget that the one disc had the cloth of the Empire guy stuck to it, so they're most likely working together in some capacity.

I don't think he wanted Yasha there specifically. Running into her was just happenstance. He used M9 to do his job for him and Yasha being there was simply a bonus. At least that is my read on it.

Dream Machine · Jun 28, 2019

timedesk said:
This is actually what I'm most curious about. Why did Oban waste all his time with the Abyssal anchors and working with the Empire if he could just casually fly through that entire dungeon an awaken the Laughing Hand? Why did he want Yasha there, could he have just triggered her at any point? The M9 feel responsible, but it feels like the only thing they are guilty of is failing to stop Oban when he was reading from the Tablet.

I assumed Oban's crew that Yasha used to be a part of were setting up all of the abyss anchors around the continent while he was working on the big job of getting the information (and tablet?) required to release the Laughing Hand. Sewing chaos and discord to kind of prep the material plane with reinforcements and resources for the bigger baddy to call upon once he was freed.

It really seems like the M9 just stumbled upon Oban by chance, and yasha wasn't a part of his plan at all until she showed up and he decided he might as well mind control her and use her again.

killerrin · Jun 28, 2019

SilentMike03 said:
Yeah, the majority were on the honesty kick, but the sense I got from Caleb was that he was proposing a broader change in how they operate. When he said that they messed up and needed to accept responsibility, I took that as him telling the group that they all need to grow up and stop fucking around.

It's honestly kind of funny looking back at how different the group is now compared to when they were pirates and everyone was cool with Fjord breaking the 2nd seal.

I would honestly love to see Caleb step up and take on the spotlight as an actual leader figure for the group. I feel like he is one of the ones with legitamite skill in that side of things and it would be amazing to see him just try and right the ship they are on.

timedesk · Jun 28, 2019

SilentMike03 said:
The forge thing actually felt like it came out of left field and I was super confused by Cad's enthusiasm for it. It seems like a bit of a stretch to think they're connected in any way. I think both Cad and Jester should try asking their gods about some guidance in dealing with this situation.

You're assuming that Oban was only working on one thing. It's possible the anchors are unrelated to LH and are just a secondary objective for him. Maybe he was trying to weaken the barriers between this plane and the Abyssal plane for the eventual release of the Crawling King. Don't forget that the one disc had the cloth of the Empire guy stuck to it, so they're most likely working together in some capacity.

I don't think he wanted Yasha there specifically. Running into her was just happenstance. He used M9 to do his job for him and Yasha being there was simply a bonus. At least that is my read on it.

That makes a lot of sense. Yasha was probably just a bonus, an old tool he happened to stumble upon. I am confused though, wasn't Oban the guy in the empire who left that cloth on the anchor? I guess he could have been using the Empire to get the tablet to release the LH. I really want to know how much the Cerberus Assembly knew about him. Did they know he was a demon and just didn't care so long as he was attacking the Dynasty?

If I were the M9 right now I would be trying to contact Dairon and try to implicate the Cerberus Assembly with this demon situation. The Cobalt Soul would be really useful to research what this thing is and how to stop it. It was implied that it was going to look for other creatures like itself right?

SilentMike03 · Jun 28, 2019

Dream Machine said:
I assumed Oban's crew that Yasha used to be a part of were setting up all of the abyss anchors around the continent while he was working on the big job of getting the information (and tablet?) required to release the Laughing Hand. Sewing chaos and discord to kind of prep the material plane with reinforcements and resources for the bigger baddy to call upon once he was freed.

It really seems like the M9 just stumbled upon Oban by chance, and yasha wasn't a part of his plan at all until she showed up and he decided he might as well mind control her and use her again.

Something that I took away from their talk with him is that Oban is and Yasha was part of some kind of group, so there are others out there doing other stuff. And when he mentioned that they were looking for other children (? I forget his exact wording), I took that as LH not being the only entity they were looking to unleash. Which is quite a scary proposition.

Dream Machine · Jun 28, 2019

SilentMike03 said:
Something that I took away from their talk with him is that Oban is and Yasha was part of some kind of group, so there are others out there doing other stuff. And when he mentioned that they were looking for other children (? I forget his exact wording), I took that as LH not being the only entity they were looking to unleash. Which is quite a scary proposition.

Yeah, I get the feeling yasha will be releasing some nasty stuff off screen for the next few months

timedesk · Jun 28, 2019

I actually think I know how they could deal with the Laughing Hand. They need to get the Orc professor and Tinkertopp the gnome together and find a way to perfect his clockwork soldiers. The Laughing Hand is strong, but it's biggest threat is that it's fear laugh seems to grow louder with all the damage it takes. An army of constructs can't be scared, they will just keep attacking until the whole thing is just one giant mouth. It would be like that one immortal in Bloodborne. It doesn't matter if you can't be killed if you're ground into a lump of flesh.

I mean the only downside would be that you have introduced mass constructed killing machines to the world...so yeah maybe not a perfect idea.

Dream Machine · Jun 28, 2019

timedesk said:
I actually think I know how they could deal with the Laughing Hand. They need to get the Orc professor and Tinkertopp the gnome together and find a way to perfect his clockwork soldiers. The Laughing Hand is strong, but it's biggest threat is that it's fear laugh seems to grow louder with all the damage it takes. An army of constructs can't be scared, they will just keep attacking until the whole thing is just one giant mouth. It would be like that one immortal in Bloodborne. It doesn't matter if you can't be killed if you're ground into a lump of flesh.

I mean the only downside would be that you have introduced mass constructed killing machines to the world...so yeah maybe not a perfect idea.

Marisha and Laura were joking about just continuing to attack it and turning it into a stationary mouth at one point in the episode too. I love how weird and otherworldly that is, so I'm all for it.

That's assuming it doesn't have a bunch, or continue to gain a bunch, of new powers in the time after getting freed, though. He might have been at like 20% and groggy when they were fighting him.

SilentMike03 · Jun 28, 2019

timedesk said:
That makes a lot of sense. Yasha was probably just a bonus, an old tool he happened to stumble upon. I am confused though, wasn't Oban the guy in the empire who left that cloth on the anchor? I guess he could have been using the Empire to get the tablet to release the LH. I really want to know how much the Cerberus Assembly knew about him. Did they know he was a demon and just didn't care so long as he was attacking the Dynasty?

If I were the M9 right now I would be trying to contact Dairon and try to implicate the Cerberus Assembly with this demon situation. The Cobalt Soul would be really useful to research what this thing is and how to stop it. It was implied that it was going to look for other creatures like itself right?

Here's where things get kind of fuzzy. They found the scrap of cloth on a portal device and the person that they scryed on from that seemed to be some kind of secretary or government official. Their first scry was just the person in a room alone. A second scry revealed this person taking notes during a high level meeting between King Dwendel and presumably some very high ranking government officials talking about strategy for the war. Jester's perception roll wasn't very high and she only got bits and pieces of the conversation. It was at this point that they learned about the meeting place.

They went to the meeting place where they assumed this person was going to be there, but instead they found Oban buying the medallion. From this we can assume that Oban is working as a proxy for the Empire in some capacity (official or potentially off the books). Whether or not they knew of his true nature would just be guesswork at this point. But we know that the Empire set up that meeting for Oban to buy the medallion which unlocked the passage that led to the release of LH. So now is it possible that this person they scryed on is part of Oban's crew or merely that they came to some kind of agreement to unleash this thing on the Dynasty. There's a lot of questions here.

eyeball_kid · Jun 28, 2019

Dream Machine said:
I can understand not liking the fact that real world circumstances are affecting in game events –even though that's exactly what happened with the iron shepherd kidnappings, and that whole arc was one of the best parts of this campaign– but at a point you just have to look at the execution within the game itself rather than pointing out the strings. It's like when film students learn about film structure and get way into pointing out all the seams and plot holes. Sometimes you just have to go with it and meet things half way

The Iron Shepards scenario and this are a bit different. We knew that Ashley was leaving back then and Matt would give her some narrative out, but we didn't know what. Her being kidnapped was a complete surprise to everyone, and the fight on the road was impromptu and exciting and deadly. The actors went all in because they were caught up in the moment as much as we were. This time around, everyone knew a few episodes back this Oban and this dungeon were somehow going to be involved. So we've been marching single-file towards this end for weeks. Yes, they had some agency on a micro level, but they weren't going to deviate from this path. Not that they had no choice and couldn't say fuck the dungeon, but because the actors knew this was the plan Matt had set up and they had to see it through for Matt's exit for Yasha to happen. So in that sense, the past few weeks have felt less like D&D and more like a TV show with dice rolls. That's not interesting to me.

I have no problem with Matt scripting big narrative events, even unwinnable ones. I love them when they're done right. But they have to be a legit surprise for both the viewers and the cast, and this wasn't for anyone.

It also seems like Matt is developing Yasha's character more than Ashley is, and that feels weird to me. Maybe they've discussed it behind the scenes and she's totally in the know on Fallen Yasha, but in the moment it didn't seem that way.

timedesk · Jun 28, 2019

Dream Machine said:
Marisha and Laura were joking about just continuing to attack it and turning it into a stationary mouth at one point in the episode too. I love how weird and otherworldly that is, so I'm all for it.

That's assuming it doesn't have a bunch, or continue to gain a bunch, of new powers in the time after getting freed, though. He might have been at like 20% and groggy when they were fighting him.

I hadn't even considered that it could be weakened from its time being sealed. There is so much Matt could do with this thing, it could be amazing. This whole arc has just been great at giving us horrific and otherworldly creatures. It will be so cool to see if it has a bunch of new tricks when they fight it again.

Jamh · Jun 28, 2019

You know technically they have enough circumstantial evidence to pin the release of the Laughing Hand on King Dwendal and throw the Empire into chaos. All they have to do is turn over the scrap of cloth and the anchor to Dairon so they can verify it themselves and maybe try spreading the word across the Empire themselves. I mean, how does it look when the zealots who keep strict control over who people can or can't worship are found to be working with people releasing Abyssal demons?

Dream Machine · Jun 28, 2019

Jamh said:
You know technically they have enough circumstantial evidence to pin the release of the Laughing Hand on King Dwendal and throw the Empire into chaos. All they have to do is turn over the scrap of cloth and the anchor to Dairon so they can verify it themselves and maybe try spreading the word across the Empire themselves. I mean, how does it look when the zealots who keep strict control over who people can or can't worship are found to be working with people releasing Abyssal demons?

I would say the propaganda machine of the empire will take care of that and pin it on someone else. But if any group can spread that information effectively, and undermine the empire's misinformation, the Cobalt Soul is probably one of the best to do it.

Belfast · Jun 28, 2019

You know the mural showed the Crawling King with *three* hands, didn't it? He might actually have three hands, too, but I wonder if it is more symbolic given the creature's name and there are two other dudes sealed away out there that are as powerful as The Laughing Hand.

timedesk · Jun 28, 2019

Dream Machine said:
I would say the propaganda machine of the empire will take care of that and pin it on someone else. But if any group can spread that information effectively, and undermine the empire's misinformation, the Cobalt Soul is probably one of the best to do it.

Smart bet would be to get Dairon and the Cobalt Soul informed of the Assembly's culpability, and inform that mage in Nicodranis. I think he had some pull with the government there. The Menagerie Coast government can't be happy that they are being pulled into the Empire's war, especially since it means they have to devote ships to the war effort. If the Cobalt Soul and the Menagerie Coast both came out and declared the Assembly enemies of Wildmount it would have to provoke a response from the Empire.

Sensei · Jun 28, 2019

can i just say that its super dope how majin yasha was remembering her past and had a memory of a devil man that was trying to help her fix her life and a travelling troupe that she was close to. basically evil molly and evil carnival. fucking SICK!!!!!

matt's the fuckin MAN!

edit: and the circus had the fucking devil toad in it!!!!!!! HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmm

timedesk · Jun 28, 2019

Sensei said:
can i just say that its super dope how majin yasha was remembering her past and had a memory of a devil man that was trying to help her fix her life and a travelling troupe that she was close to. basically evil molly and evil carnival. fucking SICK!!!!!

matt's the fuckin MAN!

Wow, how did I not see that? It's kind of perfect. Everything about evil Yasha just feels right. I hope Ashley gets at least one episode where she gets to roleplay her and just cut loose.

Dream Machine · Jun 28, 2019

timedesk said:
Smart bet would be to get Dairon and the Cobalt Soul informed of the Assembly's culpability, and inform that mage in Nicodranis. I think he had some pull with the government there. The Menagerie Coast government can't be happy that they are being pulled into the Empire's war, especially since it means they have to devote ships to the war effort. If the Cobalt Soul and the Menagerie Coast both came out and declared the Assembly enemies of Wildmount it would have to provoke a response from the Empire.

This all sounds very cool. But then I remember who our party is, and game of thrones-ian political machinations start to seem further out of reach, lol

Sensei said:
can i just say that its super dope how majin yasha was remembering her past and had a memory of a devil man that was trying to help her fix her life and a travelling troupe that she was close to. basically evil molly and evil carnival. fucking SICK!!!!!

matt's the fuckin MAN!

Makes sense why even an amnesiac Yasha would feel drawn to the carnival. It's a nice little echo.

Though the fact that the giant toad man in the carnival from the very beginning was actually a demon (that summoned other demons to help him in battle, no less), and the leader of the carnival was shady as hell, makes me wonder if there's supposed to be an actual connection to Oban's group, or if Matt was just establishing themes he planned to pick up on later.

Yabberwocky · Jun 28, 2019

I caught up on the new episode, and loved it. I thought it was a great way to temporarily write out Ashley, and give the group's dynamic a huge shake up in the process. I knew the outcome of the episode before I went to watch it, and I was still on the edge of my seat the whole time.

(I'm also a simple soul - if Laura Bailey tears up, I automatically tear up. Goddamnit.)

I'm loving all the theories re: Yasha, too - What if Yasha's memories were just restored?

MJM_Stillanerd -

Okay, in rewatching the stream, I'm afraid that Fjord may have been partly correct about Yasha. When Oban told Yasha to avenge him just before he died, he didn't cast an enchantment on her. When he said that, her memories were restored.

Let's recall what we already know about Yasha's backstory, as related by Ashley herself. Against the wishes of her tribe, Yasha married Zuala even though she wasn't Yasha's intended mate. As punishment, the tribe executed Zuala, and Yasha escaped into the desert. After that, she had no recollection of the next several months until she woke up at the altar of the Stormlord. But now, based on what Matt told Ashley at the end of the session, we can piece together what really happened to Yasha.

It was clear from Matt's descriptions that Oban found her, and persuaded her to become a follower of the Angel of Irons. Then, out of revenge for Zuala's death, Yasha tracked down and slaughtered members of her own tribe. If anyone modified Yasha's memories, it was the Stormlord when he removed those memories of her time with Oban and the other followers of the Angel of Irons. And without those original memories, Yasha basically became a different person. EDIT: Furthermore, when Matt had Ashley roll a Wisdom save at disadvantage for Yasha after Oban said "Avenge me," what may have happened was the enchantment the Stormlord placed on Yasha broke.

In fact, based on the way Matt described her state of mind, there's now two personalities within Yasha. One is the Orphanmaker, a.k.a. the original Yasha; the other is the Yasha we and the Nein have come to know, the one who was "created" by the Stormlord when he removed her memories of Oban, the Angel of Irons, and what she did for them. Even more interesting, when Matt had Yasha attack Nott, he told Ashley, "You see a small, Goblin woman." He didn't say, "You see Nott."

Basically, for those who've seen the original Total Recall, "Yasha" is Quaid and "Orphanmaker" is Hauser.

Dream Machine said:
This all sounds very cool. But then I remember who our party is, and game of thrones-ian political machinations start to seem further out of reach, lol

Makes sense why even an amnesiac Yasha would feel drawn to the carnival. It's a nice little echo.

Though the fact that the giant toad man in the carnival from the very beginning was actually a demon (that summoned other demons to help him in battle, no less), and the leader of the carnival was shady as hell, makes me wonder if there's supposed to be an actual connection to Oban's group, or if Matt was just establishing themes he planned to pick up on later.

Some users on Reddit/Tumblr were discussing whether there was a potential connection with the Gustav/the troupe, or whether Matt was just generally foreshadowing the betrayer gods with his descriptions for the character's circus acts intros back Episode 1. It's really, really creepy to revisit retrospectively. MERCER-!

calicoJill -

This may be a long shot, but what if Gustav is Obann? They talk the same, and it would explain why he knew Yasha, and why he knew Jester despite not having seen her at the Overcrow. He also was in jail when Jester cast Detect Good and Evil at the carnival... And check this shit out, transcripts from the carnival show in episode 1:

"Lost without form into the mazes of the underworld. There, where the body would break, they found a teacher in a mystical serpent, and the gift they received was the ability to bend with this maze that captured them and slither their way back to the surface to reclaim their place in the world. May I present to you Mona and Yuli, the Knot Sisters." -Cloaked Serpent

"In a flash, beyond the ash, the gods all went and gone. The darkness came to grasp, reclaim, and suffocate the dawn." Suddenly, out of the darkness behind him, a burst of flame lights the room. "But from that night, a burning light doth keep back shadows' bane. The strength to fight will set alight the morning sun again. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Ornna the fire fairy." -The Luxon (sounds like it's heavily referencing Rosana across the Ashkeeper peaks… also possibly Molly? He did fucking die and come back to life like a pheonix)

"Even as the sun would rise anew, bellowing roars will quake the lands of Xhorhas and beyond. Terrible beasts, now freed from their dark masters, scattered into our world." (roars) A terrible, guttural roar shakes the room, followed by the sounds of grinding and dragged chains. From behind the performers' flap,the half-orc, Bo, who you'd met earlier, the Breaker, and the fool, who is now still playing the fiddle, yet the bow of it continues to go on its own as he drags the other chain with his arm,wrapped around his forearm. The two of them pull something through the flap. It swells, and from beneath it is revealed an enormous creature of green scales, slimy-looking skin, and a corpulent form, large toad-like legs frame a rotund torso, and muscular arms that are manacled and pulling him in." -The Crawling King

I don't know if Gustav is Oban, but if I thought the Gustav was shady before...

Wunder · Jun 29, 2019

Yabberwocky said:
I caught up on the new episode, and loved it. I thought it was a great way to temporarily write out Ashley, and give the group's dynamic a huge shake up in the process. I knew the outcome of the episode before I went to watch it, and I was still on the edge of my seat the whole time.

(I'm also a simple soul - if Laura Bailey tears up, I automatically tear up. Goddamnit.)

I'm loving all the theories re: Yasha, too - What if Yasha's memories were just restored?

Some users on Reddit/Tumblr were discussing whether there was a potential connection with the Gustav/the troupe, or whether Matt was just generally foreshadowing the betrayer gods with his descriptions for the character's circus acts intros back Episode 1. It's really, really creepy to revisit retrospectively. MERCER-!

I don't know if Gustav is Oban, but if I thought the Gustav was shady before...

Yeah Matt confirmed the circus foreshadowing in a panel a couple weeks back which got me thinking why that circus troupe knew such a bizarre and dark story about Betrayer Gods. Sure it could be brushed off as a tale that was picked up and passed around by bards and minstrels but it was a huge part of their act and not just a puppet show or something. Combined with the devil toad and the other revelations, it could be a possibility. The only thing is that the Hobgoblin wasn't there, and Oban said they thought she was lost, but Gustav would have known she was with the group, right?

CoolOff · Jun 29, 2019

I'm curious about the minis that Matt uses, specifically in this case the Laughing Hand. Is that custom made for how he wants the creature to look or does he purchase some standard figurines and then adapt the descriptions to fit what he has in mind?

Smiley90 · Jun 29, 2019

CoolOff said:
I'm curious about the minis that Matt uses, specifically in this case the Laughing Hand. Is that custom made for how he wants the creature to look or does he purchase some standard figurines and then adapt the descriptions to fit what he has in mind?

I believe he's mentioned before that he gets custom-made ones. With access to a 3D printer it's gotta be super cheap

Jamh · Jun 29, 2019

Wait a minute, all this talk about restoring Yasha's memories reminded me of when Trent cast a spell on Yasha after the M9's win in the Victory Pit. Could Trent have been another one of Oban's disguises? Probably not, but it's fun to think Matt could've cast a spell all the way back then to have it finally take effect after all this time.

Deleted member 1190 · Jun 29, 2019

CoolOff said:
I'm curious about the minis that Matt uses, specifically in this case the Laughing Hand. Is that custom made for how he wants the creature to look or does he purchase some standard figurines and then adapt the descriptions to fit what he has in mind?

Smiley90 said:
I believe he's mentioned before that he gets custom-made ones. With access to a 3D printer it's gotta be super cheap

I think its probably both. Vecna at the end of C1 was a modified warhammer Nagash figure, IIRC

Skade · Jun 30, 2019

For the laughing hand, it looks like a stock mini on wich he simply put a hood with Green Stuff and repainted the whole afterwards.

I don't think he would have needed anyone to do it for him, it seems pretty straightforward to do.

Rinse Bassfunk · Jun 30, 2019

Skade said:
For the laughing hand, it looks like a stock mini on wich he simply put a hood with Green Stuff and repainted the whole afterwards.

I don't think he would have needed anyone to do it for him, it seems pretty straightforward to do.

I was searching through the monster lists and was struggling to find anything relative. If it looks like an edited standard mini, which original did you think it started as?

I ask because when I saw it I thought it seemed familiar but I couldn't put my finger on it

Skade · Jun 30, 2019

Rinse Bassfunk said:
I was searching through the monster lists and was struggling to find anything relative. If it looks like an edited standard mini, which original did you think it started as?

I ask because when I saw it I thought it seemed familiar but I couldn't put my finger on it

I don't think it's a D&D mini, it would not be the firtst time Matt used something from somewhere else. I have another brand in mind but i can't remember the name (one with steampunk robots of roughly that size, i think it had monsters on the same scale).

Rinse Bassfunk · Jun 30, 2019

Ah gotcha, man I wish I had a large collection of minis. I'll make do with printed cardboard cutouts in mini bases for the moment. If I started I don't know where I'd stop

Pilgrimzero · Jun 30, 2019

And Yasha is out. Which is fine because shes the least interesting character.

Skade · Jun 30, 2019

Pilgrimzero said:
And Yasha is out. Which is fine because shes the least interesting character.

You seem to have forgotten Fjord. To me, the little tidbits we had about Yasha are more intersting that Fjord as a whole. I would have be fine with him dying this week. With some luck, the magic that brought us Cad could strike again.

eyeball_kid · Jun 30, 2019

Skade said:
You seem to have forgotten Fjord. To me, the little tidbits we had about Yasha are more intersting that Fjord as a whole.

I agree, but as I said before it also feels more like Matt is developing this character more than Ashley is. It really feels more like this is Matt's character and Ashley is just rolling dice for her. I've just never felt like Ashley has claimed it as her own, in part because she's so quiet in the games and because Yasha herself rarely speaks. It's the worst combination of in-game and out-of-game traits for a player who is gone all the time. The lore may be cool, but I just don't feel connected to Yasha at all.

Dream Machine · Jun 30, 2019

At least Ashley will have a strong jumping off point for her character when she comes back into the fold for good. The last couple times she left, it was either kind of arbitrary, or she didn't get to play her character being rescued.

She's got several months to stew over what yasha is up to, and what she's going through in her head as she's doing it. Something interesting I might like to see is maybe one or two short one on one games with Matt and Ashley (when she has time) wherein we see what dark shit she's up to. Maybe some storm lord interactions through visions. All of it being off screen and us having to piece everything together after she gets back might be just as good or better, but a couple of games in the interim for her might be good for keeping her character's story somewhat fresh and evolving in her mind. It could be something good to do as a private, unbroadcasted game like their session zeros were. I think keeping the other players from watching what she's up to—or fans from telling them about it on social media—would probably be for the best.

timedesk · Jun 30, 2019

Dream Machine said:
At least Ashley will have a strong jumping off point for her character when she comes back into the fold for good. The last couple times she left, it was either kind of arbitrary, or she didn't get to play her character being rescued.

She's got several months to stew over what yasha is up to, and what she's going through in her head as she's doing it. Something interesting I might like to see is maybe one or two short one on one games with Matt and Ashley (when she has time) wherein we see what dark shit she's up to. Maybe some storm lord interactions through visions. All of it being off screen and us having to piece everything together after she gets back might be just as good or better, but a couple of games in the interim for her might be good for keeping her character's story somewhat fresh and evolving in her mind. It could be something good to do as a private, unbroadcasted game like their session zeros were. I think keeping the other players from watching what she's up to—or fans from telling them about it on social media—would probably be for the best.

This sounds like a good idea. I want to be completely in the black about what's going on with Evil Yasha until she shows up again played by Ashley. I know we will probably have some Scry scenes, but anything more than that should be private between Matt and Ashley. When she shows up again it should be a really dramatic moment for everyone at the table, and I am fine waiting four months for that.

Skade said:
You seem to have forgotten Fjord. To me, the little tidbits we had about Yasha are more intersting that Fjord as a whole. I would have be fine with him dying this week. With some luck, the magic that brought us Cad could strike again.

I mean we all have our least favorite characters. I think, honestly speaking, anyone could have died in that temple and it would have lead to some insanely great RP from the rest of the cast. The situation was so tense that everyone could have done something incredible with the grief. Still, I'm glad Fjord lived. I need to know what his fifth level spell was, it is driving me crazy not knowing what he picked. Also his talks with Cad and possibly finding a new divine source of power have really helped make him interesting to me again.

It's going to be a long two weeks waiting to see all the wonderful emotional fallout this episode is going to bring. There are a bunch of different directions the party could move in, it's going to be great to see what they choose.

eyeball_kid · Jun 30, 2019

Dream Machine said:
Something interesting I might like to see is maybe one or two short one on one games with Matt and Ashley (when she has time) wherein we see what dark shit she's up to. Maybe some storm lord interactions through visions. All of it being off screen and us having to piece everything together after she gets back might be just as good or better, but a couple of games in the interim for her might be good for keeping her character's story somewhat fresh and evolving in her mind. It could be something good to do as a private, unbroadcasted game like their session zeros were. I think keeping the other players from watching what she's up to—or fans from telling them about it on social media—would probably be for the best.

That's a great idea. I hope Ashley has the time to do something like that, even if they're short sessions. I think it'd benefit both her and the character.

SilkySm00th · Jun 30, 2019

Feels like the only way Yasha will stop feeling so removed from the group and kind of just lacking as a character will be with time, once she comes back permanently. Theres just almost no way to build that investment when you're popping out constantly and shes woefully behind on just the amount of moments shes had to develop anything at all.

They are pretty deep into this story now so I hope she comes back strong and has some immediate things to say and do. A little jolt to her personality over this experience would be nice. And some 1 on 1 sessions might help her get there. That would be dope and after Colbert I basically think Matt could DM anything.

Dream Machine · Jun 30, 2019

timedesk said:
This sounds like a good idea. I want to be completely in the black about what's going on with Evil Yasha until she shows up again played by Ashley. I know we will probably have some Scry scenes, but anything more than that should be private between Matt and Ashley. When she shows up again it should be a really dramatic moment for everyone at the table, and I am fine waiting four months for that.

I mean we all have our least favorite characters. I think, honestly speaking, anyone could have died in that temple and it would have lead to some insanely great RP from the rest of the cast. The situation was so tense that everyone could have done something incredible with the grief. Still, I'm glad Fjord lived. I need to know what his fifth level spell was, it is driving me crazy not knowing what he picked. Also his talks with Cad and possibly finding a new divine source of power have really helped make him interesting to me again.

It's going to be a long two weeks waiting to see all the wonderful emotional fallout this episode is going to bring. There are a bunch of different directions the party could move in, it's going to be great to see what they choose.

Yeah, i think not actually seeing it, but instead the consequences of her actions, would be more powerful for the other players and the audience. I think some one on ones with matt so that Ashley knows exactly what she's been up to would be good for her, though.

I first thought Cad was going down and Fjord would have to take up his wildmother quest in his stead. Then I thought Fjord was dying and the rest of the party would have to do something with his body/the orb inside of it to keep uk'atoa from getting released. Either could have been cool, but I'm still glad they both survived.

I don't really take character deaths that seriously though, because they are just a catalyst for more drama and usually a better story. I sometimes see some people that are still tender about Vax, and i'm like come on. I have a hard time telling who is actually upset about stuff and who is being performative about it in internet fandoms, though. this is still all just a story to me, at the end of the day.

timedesk · Jun 30, 2019

Dream Machine said:
Yeah, i think not actually seeing it, but instead the consequences of her actions, would be more powerful for the other players and the audience. I think some one on ones with matt so that Ashley knows exactly what she's been up to would be good for her, though.

I first thought Cad was going down and Fjord would have to take up his wildmother quest in his stead. Then I thought Fjord was dying and the rest of the party would have to do something with his body/the orb inside of it to keep uk'atoa from getting released. Either could have been cool, but I'm still glad they both survived.

I don't really take character deaths that seriously though, because they are just a catalyst for more drama and usually a better story. I sometimes see some people that are still tender about Vax, and i'm like come on. I have a hard time telling who is actually upset about stuff and who is being performative about it in internet fandoms, though. this is still all just a story to me, at the end of the day.

I think I have a similar opinion on character deaths. I think individual deaths can be a great source of drama, and a cool showcase of creativity for the players when they make new characters. I'll admit that I really don't like the idea of a TPK though. That would just halt all narrative momentum, and we would have to go through the entire getting to know you phase of the story all over again.

Dream Machine · Jun 30, 2019

timedesk said:
I think I have a similar opinion on character deaths. I think individual deaths can be a great source of drama, and a cool showcase of creativity for the players when they make new characters. I'll admit that I really don't like the idea of a TPK though. That would just halt all narrative momentum, and we would have to go through the entire getting to know you phase of the story all over again.

A tpk seems really unlikely to me as well, but I think it would also just be the end of that campaign. I don't see the point of trying to shoehorn a completely new party into the plot of the old one. Just start new characters in a new place, a new time, doing something else. Use the fact that the last party failed, and progress whatever bad guy they lost to's plan forward somehow into the next campaign. Advance the world's plot, even if the party characters' plots are over. Like when people were speculating what campaign 2 would have been like had VM lost to Vecna and it was still set 20 years later with the new party living in a world ruled over by a despot god king.

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