Cross-Gen games Next-Gen, patches, remasters, and rereleases.

[Deleted member 135]

The PlayStation 5 is confirmed to be backwards compatible with the PlayStation 4. Xbox Scarlett is 99.9% likely going to be backwards compatible with Xbox One (I don't know if it's been officially confirmed).

Considering that, and considering how this is native backwards compatibility rather than emulation or sticking the old hardware inside the new box what can we expect or what do we want from cross-gen games?

Let's assume that TLOU2, Death Stranding, and Ghosts of Tsushima come out between Q4 2019 and Q4 2020. That's the start of the window for cross-gen. We will also see Assassin's Creed Ragnarock in Q4 2020, a new COD, and so on.

How do you think and how do you want these to be handled? Do you think that these games will get two separate SKUs, one PS4 (that also works on PS5 via BC) and one PS5?

Will we see a co-branded SKU (see below for an example) that works on PS4 but when put in a PS5 has an additional mode that takes full advantage of the new hardware?

Will they just be PS4 branded and maybe get a patch to work better on PS5 or otherwise just get Boost Mode 2.0 enhancements?

Or do you think that games like Assassin's Creed Ragnarock and Ghosts of Tsushima are going to be next-gen only? Would that be wise when this generational transition is more iterative and soft than ever before?



This is an example of how Microsoft sells 360 games that are backwards compatible on Xbox One.

 

[Fushichou187]

Yeah I don't know how ready publishers are to leave money on the table and not find some way to charge consumers for the PS5 version of a game they initially bought on PS4.

If it is a patch to upgrade the game and bring it line with its PS5 counterpart, I think there'll be a charge for that. Only reason I think that is because I'd expect the PS5 version of a cross-gen game to be demonstratively superior to its PS4 version— more than simply performance upgrades— and there's a need to recoup costs.

At the end of the day these are still closed platforms and the platform holders are going to look to see how every area the consumer touches can be possibly monetized, especially if they're selling consoles at a loss during the initial launch.

 

[Gradon]

Yeah I don't know how ready publishers are to leave money on the table and not find some way to charge consumers for the PS5 version of a game they initially bought on PS4.

If it is a patch to upgrade the game and bring it line with its PS5 counterpart, I think there'll be a charge for that. Only reason I think that is because I'd expect the PS5 version of a cross-gen game to be demonstratively superior to its PS4 version— more than simply performance upgrades— and there's a need to recoup costs.

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Yeah I could see £20 upgrade patches being a thing you can buy on PSN.

 

[Fisty]

I think "cross-gen" wont be a thing beyond PS4 games getting a patch to support PS5 enhancements. I think there will be a hard rule that a game is either made for PS4 or PS5, where obviously the PS4 game can be played on a PS5 (maybe with enhancements per dev), but what you wont see is COD 18 at retail with both a PS4 version and a PS5 version.

Enhancement patches shouldnt need to be charged for, it's not a port or anything

 

[LewieP]

Sony have a policy that prevents anyone from charging for PS4 Pro updates. I would hope that the same would apply for PS5 updates.

 

[DrainedSpirit]

The PlayStation 5 is confirmed to be backwards compatible with the PlayStation 4. Xbox Scarlett is 99.9% likely going to be backwards compatible with Xbox One (I don't know if it's been officially confirmed).

Considering that, and considering how this is native backwards compatibility rather than emulation or sticking the old hardware inside the new box what can we expect or what do we want from cross-gen games?

Let's assume that TLOU2, Death Stranding, and Ghosts of Tsushima come out between Q4 2019 and Q4 2020. That's the start of the window for cross-gen. We will also see Assassin's Creed Ragnarock in Q4 2020, a new COD, and so on.

How do you think and how do you want these to be handled? Do you think that these games will get two separate SKUs, one PS4 (that also works on PS5 via BC) and one PS5?

Will we see a co-branded SKU (see below for an example) that works on PS4 but when put in a PS5 has an additional mode that takes full advantage of the new hardware?

Will they just be PS4 branded and maybe get a patch to work better on PS5 or otherwise just get Boost Mode 2.0 enhancements?

Or do you think that games like Assassin's Creed Ragnarock and Ghosts of Tsushima are going to be next-gen only? Would that be wise when this generational transition is more iterative and soft than ever before?



This is an example of how Microsoft sells 360 games that are backwards compatible on Xbox One.

Click to shrink...

Whoa, never seen 360/XB1 combo cases like that. Does it just contain a download-code? If not, that's kinda cool.

 

[SaintBowWow]

I don't think there will be multiple SKUs, you'll just buy the game and own it. I doubt there will even be a console name next to digital games, you'll just buy Death Stranding as opposed to Death Stranding (PS4) or Death Stranding (PS5).

 

[SMD]

Whatever one does, the other will try and outdo. Sony would be giving Microsoft an open goal if they let them have any performance advantages from the get go, even if it's just cross gen enhancements.

 

[Fisty]

Sony have a policy that prevents anyone from charging for PS4 Pro updates. I would hope that the same would apply for PS5 updates.

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This is true, if the content already plays on the device natively, theres no reason to charge $10 to increase the resolution or framerate

 

[Deleted member 135]

Whoa, never seen 360/XB1 combo cases like that. Does it just contain a download-code? If not, that's kinda cool.

Click to shrink...

I'm pretty sure they have a disc inside. I don't know how common they were or if they are still sold like that. But games like the above, Fallout 3, etc were sold like that.

 

[Chief Malik]

Microsoft will probably find some way to make games better off rip.

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

I want a single sku and a patch.
Anything else and I will be outraged.

 

[SeanMN]

This is an example of how Microsoft sells 360 games that are backwards compatible on Xbox One.

Click to shrink...

This is exactly what I want and expect. One SKU (digital or physical storefronts), your console downloads/installs the appropriate files per what model you have, then you play the game. If you have a different console that can also play the same game, that console does the same thing (installs/downloads the necessary files for it to play the game).

With the prominence of digital, and the architectural similarities that will exist between genereations (AMD cpu/gpu to AMD cpu/gpu) I think selling a PS4 version and a PS5 version of the same game would, or charging for next gen patches/upgrades would be a big miss.

 

[fiendcode]

There's definitely going to be dual releases, just like cross-gen at the start of every previous hardware generation. Publishers want that money.

Maybe Sony/MS will do something to help streamline it digitally, offer cross-buy options/discounts, etc, but PS5/Scarlet aren't going to be a Pro/X thing where "free" patches are mandated and forwards compatibility a given. These are new machines.

 

[YolkFolk]

You'll be able to play Last of Us Part 2 on the PS5 via backwards compatibility, but there will also be a separate remastered re-release which takes advantage of the PS5's power.

Too much money to be made by having a separate re-release.

 

[Fushichou187]

Sony have a policy that prevents anyone from charging for PS4 Pro updates. I would hope that the same would apply for PS5 updates.

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Yeah but that's because the PS4 & Pro are essentially the same machine. We're talking about generational leaps and charging to upgrade to the new-gen version has always come with a cost; or if it was free like Destiny PS3 -> PS4, then it'll be restricted to a certain version (e.g. digital only) and only for a limited time, after which you'll just have to buy the full game anyway.

So if charging for cross-gen PS4 -> PS5 games is a thing (it will be), expect it to be called an "upgrade" and not a "patch" because consumers are definitely willing to pay for one of those words more than the other.

 

[flyingman]

Wouldnt be surprised if PS4 versions are playable on PS5 but enchantments are sold for money.
Things like 4K textures and better graphics

 

[IronicSonic]

How do you think and how do you want these to be handled? Do you think that these games will get two separate SKUs, one PS4 (that also works on PS5 via BC) and one PS5?

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This. The rest doesn't make any sense

 

[flyingman]

This. The rest doesn't make any sense

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How does not ? A PS5 release will have use PS5 features like fast loads,better textures,better geometry,frame rate and so on(VR maybe).
Since those will created / implemented according to PS5 only they have to cost.

It makes perfect sense. PS4 versions will be playable on PS5 but with default base ps4 version. PS5 enchantments sold seperately.

 

[WhtR88t]

Same way it works on mobile- a single binary (app) that runs across devices (iPhone 6 -> iPhone XS) and simply scales in quality as the hardware gets more powerful.

 

[flyingman]

Same way it works on mobile- a single binary (app) that runs across devices (iPhone 6 -> iPhone XS) and simply scales in quality as the hardware gets more powerful.

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Do you really think a simple resolution update / scale for iPhone game is same effort as making game fit for PS5 ?

 

[butman]

What's the purpose of cross-gen games if it going to exist enhanced backward compatibility?

 

[Azurik]

We most likely get an internal boost mode on the PS5 for stable FPS, some upres maybe and some smoothing filter for older PS4 games.

Games that are coming close to ps5 release will be handled in different ways.

Some devs and first party studios will probably issue free patches for their games to take advantage of the ps5 and others may charge a fee for the substantial upgrade, while others will do a full remaster.

That's my guess. I don't mind paying for the patch as it will be cheaper than a remaster, but I also pay for the remaster if done well.

I guess we have to see how the first 1-2 years of transitioning are handled.

 

[Deleted member 47076]

We most likely get an internal boost mode on the PS5 for stable FPS, some upres maybe and some smoothing filter for older PS4 games.

Games that are coming close to ps5 release will be handled in different ways.

Some devs and first party studios will probably issue free patches for their games to take advantage of the ps5 and others may charge a fee for the substantial upgrade, while others will do a full remaster.

That's my guess. I don't mind paying for the patch as it will be cheaper than a remaster, but I also pay for the remaster if done well.

I guess we have to see how the first 1-2 years of transitioning are handled.

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That's what I expect. Not every company is going to take the same approach.

 

[LewieP]

Yeah but that's because the PS4 & Pro are essentially the same machine. We're talking about generational leaps and charging to upgrade to the new-gen version has always come with a cost; or if it was free like Destiny PS3 -> PS4, then it'll be restricted to a certain version (e.g. digital only) and only for a limited time, after which you'll just have to buy the full game anyway.

So if charging for cross-gen PS4 -> PS5 games is a thing (it will be), expect it to be called an "upgrade" and not a "patch" because consumers are definitely willing to pay for one of those words more than the other.

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That would not have worked if the PS4 was backward compatible with the PS3, like how the PS5 and PS4 Pro are compatible with PS4 software.

 

[WhtR88t]

Do you really think a simple resolution update / scale for iPhone game is same effort as making game fit for PS5 ?

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I think it's the same as tweaking various settings on a PC game to make it run well on whatever specs you have on your particular system- an adjustment of resolution (1080p? 1440p? Etc), frame rate expectations (30? 60? 144?), type of anti-aliasing or any of the dozens of settings you can turn off/on to help the game run well with your hardware.

 

[flyingman]

I think it's the same as tweaking various settings on a PC game to make it run well on whatever specs you have on your particular system- an adjustment of resolution (1080p? 1440p? Etc), frame rate expectations (30? 60? 144?), type of anti-aliasing or any of the dozens of settings you can turn off/on to help the game run well with your hardware.

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No. PC versions are dictated by console version limitations all time. If they want to focus on next gen they can add more things ray tracing, detailed textures not even on PC(before ""next gen version"") , more AI, more physics / destruction etc. Those are not cheap.

just higher resolution like iPhone games wouldnt be hard but they wont satisfy anyone with that and wont able to market it

 

[J_ToSaveTheDay]

I would personally prefer they rebrand packaging to just "PlayStation" or "Xbox," with specific platform compatibility designated clearly on the back side of the cover, and have the differences in graphics output be controlled completely in software.

There's a small part of me that kind of desires to see some "next-gen" distinction among my physical games on my shelf, but I'm also quite partial to it looking uniform as the PS4 games work seamlessly on PS5, essentially making them all part of the same collection as far as I'm concerned.

I do love the repackaged Xbox One/Xbox 360 games, but I don't think it's necessary to include both labels as actual etchings on the case itself -- I would've much preferred it being somewhere on the cover art, and the etching on the case just saying "Xbox."

 

[WhtR88t]

No. PC versions are dictated by console version limitations all time. If they want to focus on next gen they can add more things ray tracing, detailed textures not even on PC(before ""next gen version"") , more AI, more physics / destruction etc. Those are not cheap.

just higher resolution like iPhone games wouldnt be hard but they wont satisfy anyone with that and wont able to market it

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Of corse there will be games that require the newer hardware (the same as iOS games requiring newer phones). But there's no reason for whatever indie title to have to worry about creating a PS5 optimized build specifically for running on a PS5. Just make the same build run across the PlayStation OS.

 

[SweetBellic]

It depends on whether PS4 games have substantial performance enhancements on PS5 outside of some basic "boost mode" as that might complicate things. I'm skeptical that PS4 BC will be anything more than that (but would love to be wrong and get that 60fps Bloodborne we're all thirsty for). I think it's more likely that a theoretical cross gen game like Death Stranding would come with two SKUs. The PS4 SKU would play roughly the same on both PS4 (Pro) and PS5, while the PS5 SKU would only play on PS5 and boast significantly higher native resolution, framerate, and potentially other features.

 

[ResetEraIsTheBestEra]

i bet Nioh 1 and 2 will run at 4K@60 without additional cost besides the initial cost of acquiring the game so games that have adaptive engines?(i think this is the right expression or word) like Nioh most if not all Sony's first party games etc will readily take advantage of the new machines. games with fixed values will either have to get a patch or they wont aka that will be up to the devs

 

[LewieP]

The reason they won't go for two separate purchases for one game is that Sony are quite keen on having a smooth upgrade path for PS4 owners to buy a PS5. Carrying your library over and getting your games upgraded makes a PS5 purchase far more appealing to PS4 owners.

If you have to buy your games again to get any improvement, getting a PS5 loses an advantages that it would otherwise have over a new Xbox.

Edit: and third party publishers will straddle both generations for quite some time.

 

[WhtR88t]

Do you really think a simple resolution update / scale for iPhone game is same effort as making game fit for PS5 ?

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I also think it's similar to how the PS4 Pro works right now– the base PS4 gets particular settings and the PS4 Pro gets a nice bump in those settings/effects + maybe frame rate and/or resolution bump. It's the same, just that the PS5 will be able to handle higher settings than the PS4 Pro.

But again, this is for **some** titles (things like Fortnite, Apex, indie games etc). Obviously for things like Horizon 2 it'll require a PS5… and when the PS5 Pro hits they'll patch in higher settings for it, PS6… PS6 Pro on and on and on- some games being cross generational, some requiring the new generation.

 

[Jiraiya]

No way we get two skus. I don't see pc users getting charged when they upgrade their rigs. These systems aren't different enough anymore to claim theyd have to do this.

 

[Sesha]

I feel confident in saying that every Sony game already announced will be playable on PS4 (Main exception being FF7. The first part will probably be PS4 compatible, the rest probably not), and everything that releases before PS5's release window will get PS4 SKUs only.

 

[dreamcast]

One game for both platforms. It's a no-brainer in my opinion.

Can't be certain how Sony will handle it. But I feel Microsoft will definitely do it this way based off how the Original Xbox and Xbox 360 games work on the Xbox One currently.

I really feel "next-gen" will be a slow burn to upgrade hardware due to the changes coming. People won't feel compelled to upgrade because most games will be playable on any version of a console.

 

[Aswitch]

This is an example of how Microsoft sells 360 games that are backwards compatible on Xbox One.

Click to shrink...

This is what I've been thinking we'll see cross-gen. I think that they'll brand games for both since now the media is actually the same adjacent to dvds/blu-rays specifically with Xbox 360/Xbone. I think it will be one sku that has branding for PS4/PS5/Xboxone/Xbox2 respectively where then a patch can be applied for the latter games of next gen.

Now if Microsoft/Sony were really smart, I think they will start this branding way before the next gen consoles even release(but after they're officially announced) to encourage consumers on the fence of upgrading to do so when the consoles release while also being a constant reminder when purchasing the latest releases in wake of the next gen consoles.

Or they could in conjunction print titles for both generations (for some of us that are sticklers about stuff like that) but either print is compatible with either Gen. So if i have a PS4 print of Death Stranding I could play on PS5 just fine with upgrades and if i want to play the PS5 print of Death stranding on PS4 it will play just fine as the downgraded PS4 verison.

But then again, they could be money hungry and force us to double dip to some extent possibly, but i'd hope not. At worst we would pay a minimal fee to upgrade like previous gen titles like Destiny.

 

[t26]

Don't see EA or Activision doing anything for free. They just charged $10 to upgrade to the next gen.

 

[Tedmilk]

I expect retail will have separate boxes and branding to avoid consumer confusion. Digital copies will likely be separate also - this is a different situation to the Pro/X as it's a legit new gen.

 

[Dphex]

there won´t be an update to bring the game up to PS5 level...you will buy the game again, the PS4 version will run in an emulated PS4Pro without any extras and there will be a seperate PS5 version of the same game to buy.

same as it was with Last of Us Remastered for example.

people are naive if they believe in "for free" updates to existing PS4 games. either they make you double dip or there will be a price to pay to bring the game to PS5 level. i think they will go with selling the game again.

 

[xem]

I hope for a single SKU, with PS4/PS5 across the top of the boxes. The games will just look/run better on ps5 much like now with ps4 pro. As things progress we'll see games that only work on ps5 but i wouldnt expect this for a couple more years. I bet this gen more than any we will be held back by those Jag cores for some time.

edit: for MS the same thing. If either one charges for 2 SKU it will be a advantage to the other with a marketing smear.

 

[Lukemia SL]

I want to play Dead Space on the PS5 but I don't want to play it in 720p with no HDR and with L1+R1 for aim and shoot.
This is why I'd still buy remasters or an enhanced update would work for me instead. Plus with this 3D audio they're talking about I would want it to make use of that.

 

[RivalGT]

Updates will be the same as PS4 pro games. So not all games will have them, but don't expect to pay for patches or updates.

 

[dreamcast]

there won´t be an update to bring the game up to PS5 level...you will buy the game again, the PS4 version will run in an emulated PS4Pro without any extras and there will be a seperate PS5 version of the same game to buy.

same as it was with Last of Us Remastered for example.

people are naive if they believe in "for free" updates to existing PS4 games. either they make you double dip or there will be a price to pay to bring the game to PS5 level. i think they will go with selling the game again.

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This thread seems to be starting to focus on what Sony does. What do you think Microsoft will do? Because they already are giving out free upgrades to existing games that are over a decade old.

I just can't see Sony doing this though. If they do, I foresee a YouTube video put out by Microsoft showing how to upgrade your game to better graphics, fps, etc. It shows them taking the disc out of an Xbox One and putting it into the Xbox "Anaconda".

 

[blackmass]

Cross-gen games will be treated like last gen, I hope. Two SKUs, the next-gen one 10€/$ more.
And the times of remasters, rereleases should be over since we get officially confirmed BC. They had their run this gen.

 

[t26]

This thread seems to be starting to focus on what Sony does. What do you think Microsoft will do? Because they already are giving out free upgrades to existing games that are over a decade old.

I just can't see Sony doing this though. If they do, I foresee a YouTube video put out by Microsoft showing how to upgrade your game to better graphics, fps, etc. It shows them taking the disc out of an Xbox One and putting it into the Xbox "Anaconda".

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They can do that with first party stuff, but how is MS going to make third parties like EA give out free upgrade?

 

[dreamcast]

They can do that with first party stuff, but how is MS going to make third parties like EA give out free upgrade?

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They can't. But they can negotiate it. Not all the games that have been upgraded from the previous gen to this gen are first party. So there is hope.

 

[SMD]

No one is going to release a PS4 game to play on your PS5, come on guys.

 

[krae_man]

I don't think there will be multiple SKUs, you'll just buy the game and own it. I doubt there will even be a console name next to digital games, you'll just buy Death Stranding as opposed to Death Stranding (PS4) or Death Stranding (PS5).

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Next gen games are going to be so large, they require a UHD disk. That makes it impossible for one disk to work in both systems.

I guess Microsoft could do it if they want to leave original Xbox One owners out in the cold, but that seams unlikely.

It's also unlikely that two different disks are put in each box(like a movie coming with a DVD and Bluray disk in the package). That would have happened already if publishers were willing to do that.

 

[SaintBowWow]

Next gen games are going to be so large, they require a UHD disk. That makes it impossible for one disk to work in both systems.

I guess Microsoft could do it if they want to leave original Xbox One owners out in the cold, but that seams unlikely.

It's also unlikely that two different disks are put in each box(like a movie coming with a DVD and Bluray disk in the package). That would have happened already if publishers were willing to do that.

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Just use the disk as the license for a digital download on PS5.