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Lord Fagan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,367
Lower end of the spectrum because they're really mostly just fit, well trained techno sorcerers with narrowly defined powers and flaming swords.

They're very mortal and fallible. Nowhere near superhuman as even Spiderman, honestly.
 

Tavernade

Tavernade
Moderator
Sep 18, 2018
8,628
Can Superman resist the force? I always figured you need to control the force to resist others using the force on you so Superman would be unable to move if someone force grabbed him.

It would really depend on what Superman you're dealing with. If he's faster than the speed of light-ing no one anywhere stands a chance. I imagine a Jedi could stop a ship from taking off or force push a ship into a mountain but if it was going so fast they couldn't concentrate on it they'd be powerless.

I think Wonder Woman is an easier match up, even if she's often shown to be more indestructible than Supes, just because she can't fly as fast. A Jedi could definitely ground her, the question is for how long.

Not very high. A well-equipped guy like Jango Fett can hold his own against someone like Obi Wan. And that's nothing compared to Iron Man armor or something like that. That's more like around the level of Firefly, the Batman villain, who also has a jetpack and flamethrower.

Did Jango hold his own? I thought Obi wanted him alive. Plus didn't that fight just become fisticuffs at one point (I genuinely forget).

Jango did not last much time at all against Mace, though admittedly the jet pack was busted that time. Still, if imagine Mace could have pulled him out of the sky.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,690
Luke projected an image of himself across the galaxy that was capable of physical touch. While Professor X had to hook himself up to a supercomputer to communicate with mutants in other states. So I'm gonna say that Jedi would rank fairly high.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,998
Where does somebody like Captain America rank on this list? In theory he should be taken down by anyone with a machinegun or shotgun, but can magically deflect all incoming fire with his shield.

If Jedis have the same plot armor as Captain America, then I say they should rank in the same tier that he does. In theory they are as squishy and vulnerable as somebody like Cap or Wonder Woman, but just always manage to deflect or reflect projectile fire.

Cap is harder to kill than a jedi for a couple of reasons:

1.) He's running around with a weapon that completely ignores all laws of physics. It is completely unbreakable* and will null out all energy and impact stone dead, yet will bounce off anything with pinpoint accuracy when cap throws it. The edge of that disc is is anywhere from "totally harmless" to "razor sharp" as the plot requires. Planning around that thing is very difficult. Thanks to the SSS Captain America's reaction speed is fast enough that he can react to bullets after they're fired, so the shield "magically" intercepting shots isn't all that magic. It's usually just speed.

2.) Martial arts is in and of itself a superpower within marvel earth, and if Cap isn't the best there is at unarmed combat, he's damned close. Top tier martial artists on his level can not only predict what moves you will use in advance by reading your body language and muscle movements, they can and do employ "pressure point strikes" that do anything from render you completely immobile in a single shot to killing you outright. Physical strength doesn't appear to be a defense here, Black Panther knocked out Luke Cage this way and Luke can lift 50 tons and has unbreakable skin. On top of his martial arts prowess, Marvel also saw fit to make Rogers the greatest military tactician that's ever lived. Not just on earth! In the entire goddamned Universe.

3.) No one knows how strong or fast Captain America is, not even within the Marvel Universe. There's a common trope that he's "peak human" but this is false. The Super Soldier Serum has rendered Cap as strong as the plot requires. The man can run 60mph while carrying other people, jump from planes sans parachute without a problem, survive point blank gunshots to the head, etc. Nobody knows how. Captain America routinely fights and beats opponents who *should* be many times stronger than himself. USAgent has a ten ton minimum. Cap beats him like it's his job. Spider Man couldn't take him down during Civil War- Cap was just too good. Sinister even cloned Namor, Prince of Atlantis, sent him after Cap and Cap knocked it out regardless. Sinister was bewildered.

You don't piss off Captain America if you can avoid it no matter how strong you are. The dude is just ludicrous.
 

thetrin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,643
Atlanta, GA
Wait, why is Spider-man ranked so low?

"Although his raw strength is portrayed pretty inconsistently in the comics (including feats of lifting up to 40+ tons), he's usually expected to be able to lift somewhere between 10-20 tons with relative ease."

Dude is a fucking beast. The only reason he doesn't knock dude's jaws off constantly is because he holds back.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Cap is harder to kill than a jedi for a couple of reasons:

1.) He's running around with a weapon that completely ignores all laws of physics. It is completely unbreakable* and will null out all energy and impact stone dead, yet will bounce off anything with pinpoint accuracy when cap throws it. The edge of that disc is is anywhere from "totally harmless" to "razor sharp" as the plot requires. Planning around that thing is very difficult. Thanks to the SSS Captain America's reaction speed is fast enough that he can react to bullets after they're fired, so the shield "magically" intercepting shots isn't all that magic. It's usually just speed.
I tend to feel like Jedi also benefit from similar undefined and nebulous attributes. Their lightsabers can deflect almost anything......they can throw their saber and have it return like a boomerang. It's pretty similar to Cap's shield, with the additional benefit that they can cut through almost anything. In combat they have psychic or precognitive abilities that allow them to read and know any opponent's future moves. I can't say that a Jedi would beat Cap, but just that they seem roughly in the same tier, but don't have the ever-present plot armor that Cap does.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,998
Luke projected an image of himself across the galaxy that was capable of physical touch. While Professor X had to hook himself up to a supercomputer to communicate with mutants in other states. So I'm gonna say that Jedi would rank fairly high.

Yeah that aint accurate.

1.) That projection feat literally killed Luke, so not a great example.

2.) X holds back the vast majority of his powers. If he doesn't, you get Onslaught. The kinds of things X did as Onslaught and Red Skull did as Red Onslaught were "planetary domination" level.

3.) X in astonishing Xmen about 2 years back took over the body of an ally from the astral plane and telepathically reconstructed it molecule by molecule into a younger copy of his original body. Later in that arc X was able to simply take the combined telepathic energy of planet earth and use it to nuke an opponent out of existence.

Jedi are in NO WAY anywhere close to where Marvel psychics are. And X isn't even the strongest one that exists. Nate Grey as X-Man telepathically built his own dimension.
 

Deleted member 56306

User-requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
2,383
The Force isn't really a psychic ability - but also Jedi haven't been shown to be anywhere near Mutant Level BS.
 

Mochi

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,704
Seattle
That being said...

youtu.be

KotOR 2 HK-47: How to Kill Jedi

You can unlock this dialog after reaching an influence level pretty close to 100 with HK (you'll need to play VERY dark sided). Funny stuff! xD STAR WARS Kni...

Apparently if you want to kill a lot of Jedi, send Gambit.

This is so great, thanks for sharing. I've forgotten most of KOTOR but I really hope the property gets reintroduced into current media.
 

carlsojo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
33,816
San Francisco
Peak Anakin/Obi Wan could hold their own on mid tier.

Palpatine would survive on High Tier. Dude is the Lex Luthor of the SW universe in terms of overarching schemes and plans. Probably manipulate Superman into killing him and then possess him.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,998
I tend to feel like Jedi also benefit from similar undefined and nebulous attributes. Their lightsabers can deflect almost anything......they can throw their saber and have it return like a boomerang. It's pretty similar to Cap's shield, with the additional benefit that they can cut through almost anything. In combat they have psychic or precognitive abilities that allow them to read and know any opponent's future moves. I can't say that a Jedi would beat Cap, but just that they seem roughly in the same tier, but don't have the ever-present plot armor that Cap does.

You misunderstood me a bit re: Cap's shield. It is simultaneously unbreakable AND nulls out any force directed at it.

It can soak up a 100 ton blow from the hulk just as well as it can eat a plasma blast. Cap won't feel anything. Swing a lightsaber at it, the saber is nulled out.

It also has a "razor sharp" edge as the plot requires, meaning it goes right through anything just as wolverine's claws do- if the plot requires it. Cap has split Semi trucks and ICBM's literally in half with it.

So...doing the math, throwing that shield at a Jedi means the lightsaber can't block it and can't slow it down. Very few things can because the shield is a mystery metal made of the most durable substance in the universe. At best you have a KOed Jedi, at worst they're cut in half. It's a nasty piece of work that just ignores the laws of physics.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,225
Only the strongest of Jedi's would reach into the low mid-tier. Everyone else is street level or low tier.

No Jedi is matching Betsy Braddock with her force fields that blocked a city destroying shot from a Shi'ar space ship (she had Rachel's help, but still). No one is holding Wonder Woman in place with telekinesis when she's strong enough to wrestle out of GL constructs and fast enough to RUN INTO THE SPEED FORCE VIA BRUTE FORCE.

No one is touching Superman because he's vulnerable to telepathy when the telepaths he normally goes up against can hijack the minds of cities and planets
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,998
Wait, why is Spider-man ranked so low?

"Although his raw strength is portrayed pretty inconsistently in the comics (including feats of lifting up to 40+ tons), he's usually expected to be able to lift somewhere between 10-20 tons with relative ease."

Dude is a fucking beast. The only reason he doesn't knock dude's jaws off constantly is because he holds back.

It's not that he's ranked low, its that the high end is stupidly high.

40 tons is great (and to be fair parker is probably stronger than this under duress) but the WEAKEST THOR EVER took a planet sized starship and threw it through space like a baseball.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,225
It's not that he's ranked low, its that the high end is stupidly high.

40 tons is great (and to be fair parker is probably stronger than this under duress) but the WEAKEST THOR EVER took a planet sized starship and threw it through space like a baseball.
Or we can go even lower, like the time Iron Fist judo chopped a helicarrier out of the sky.

main-qimg-12b6716f9d65019bb423ec79aecff3a3
 
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Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,085
Lightsabers took a hot minute to cut through some thick doors, they ain't touching Omega Red's bootleg adamantinum. Let alone whatever Cap's shield is made of
 

Actinium

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,792
California
There's an inverse ninja law for jedi, if we don't accept that a named, trained jedi can perform the bread and butter force abilities and drop a room full of storm troopers than most of them would just be beat cops with laser swords.
 

Illusion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
You put Wonder Women in Mid Tier and not High? Yeesh. Low tier in that case. Iron man in mid tier and not low? Your really not helping the case here.

They are just super powerful cops/agents of the government but with space magic and laser swords. In Marvel terms the closest I could pin them down too is stronger then The Guardians of the Galaxy, but weaker then most of Doctor Strange's monks.
 

Futaleufu

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,910
In episode 1 Qui Gon was stunned after being hit with the hilt of Darth Maul's double lightsaber.

Jedis aren't physically stronger than the average person.
 

B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,030
Jedi are High Tier. Their powers are whatever the story wants them to be.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,327
Mid-tier at max (and that's only for a select few)

most Jedi are low-tier

they certainly are not touching reality warpers, time manipulators, or gods
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,327
Also Batman is S-tier. The only problem in that list I could see. He's beat supes so many times.
 
Dec 31, 2017
7,097
Low tier for the vast majority of them.

In the movies at least apart from Palpatines super lightning and Luke's galactic projection we haven't seen any amazing force powers. So without that they are just high powered swordsman.
 

Zombine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,231
They are low mid to high mid and anything else is just bias.

You can't overlook the utility of force powers that would absolutely wipe the floor with street level goons, but they can't contend with the likes of Thor. Using their powers to any real sort of significance seems to put a great toll on them, so I couldn't see them dealing with high tier character that are impervious to just about everything for too long. Jury is out on how any of these characters respond to Mind Tricks though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,690
Yeah that aint accurate.

1.) That projection feat literally killed Luke, so not a great example.

2.) X holds back the vast majority of his powers. If he doesn't, you get Onslaught. The kinds of things X did as Onslaught and Red Skull did as Red Onslaught were "planetary domination" level.

3.) X in astonishing Xmen about 2 years back took over the body of an ally from the astral plane and telepathically reconstructed it molecule by molecule into a younger copy of his original body. Later in that arc X was able to simply take the combined telepathic energy of planet earth and use it to nuke an opponent out of existence.

Jedi are in NO WAY anywhere close to where Marvel psychics are. And X isn't even the strongest one that exists. Nate Grey as X-Man telepathically built his own dimension.
I was thinking about the 90's lol. X-Man was my favorite dude. But I disagree about them being nowhere near Marvel. Jedi precognition allows them to block blaster fire without even looking. Marvel psionics can barely block a punch. And despite how it looked onscreen, the novelization of the movie says Luke and Vader were fighting faster than the eye could keep up with. It sucks that we're limited to the movies here though.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,335
Did you really put TRIATHLON on a higher tier than Spider-Man? Slayven, you fucking MONSTER.

In answer to the thread, I'd have put Jedi on the low tier before Luke Skywalker used interplanetary telepathy, so high it is.
 

Grahf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,664
It's useless to do ranking with comics hero. Depending on the period / author / direction of the wind, the same hero can have like 10 different set of stats.
Can't compare anything to something this volatile/unstable.

I remember an old thread here where people wanted to rank heroes by strength or something. Depending on the answer Spiderman was able to lift up 20T to 2000T.
Guess what, everyone was right apparently (25T to "thousands of tonnes on occasion").

And same with Jedi, even with you limiting it to live action Jedis, the last trilogy's force users are miles ahead : healing++, teleportation and all the other bullshit I don't want to remember.
 

PHOENIXZERO

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,085
Also amusing is that since marvel earth is *typically* lower tech than the SW verse is, Jedi would have a *much* harder time against street level thugs than stormtroopers.

I recall reading somewhere that the Mandalorians were a huge pain in the ass for Jedi to deal with because they figured out pretty quickly that blaster shots were just batting practice for skilled Jedi.

To get around this they switched to "slugthrowers" i.e. regular ass bullets. A jedi tries to block a slugthrower with a lightsaber they get a face full of molten shrapnel.

Now imagine what happens when a jedi runs into a pissed off punisher, taskmaster, bullseye, or similar. It won't be pretty
Yeah, I was thinking about that as I was reading through the new posts, most Jedi could get taken out by street level, gun wielding thugs.
Who can and can't a lightsaber cut through?
Superman could grab the "blade" and comment on the cute light show and offer to show them his own with heat vision.
 

Duebrithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
831
Can't see Spider-Man losing to a Jedi to be quite honest. I'd put them on the middle of street tier.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,998
I was thinking about the 90's lol. X-Man was my favorite dude. But I disagree about them being nowhere near Marvel. Jedi precognition allows them to block blaster fire without even looking. Marvel psionics can barely block a punch. And despite how it looked onscreen, the novelization of the movie says Luke and Vader were fighting faster than the eye could keep up with. It sucks that we're limited to the movies here though.

Nate Grey busted a moon with nothing but telekinesis.


 
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Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,085
Are they? Could you go in-depth as to why they're wrong?
First of all he ignores how it works. He did a surface read of the lore. He says since the shield could be forged at a certain temp, all you have to do is reach that temp to reforge it. The shield has taken that temp and more and not been damaged. Hell it took a sustain shot from Human Torch's nova blast which we know can get up to a million degrees. Actually we know he can do the Planck temp, but he never goes that high without reason
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,998
Are they? Could you go in-depth as to why they're wrong?

He's wrong about the composition of the shield, for one. Its Vibranium, steel, "something else that has never been replicated" AND it was reinforced with Asgardian Uru during the Fear Itself arc.

He also seems to argue that Cap's shield (or adamantium in general) not melting is impossible after it's been forged, despite marvel definitively showing and stating repeatedly that this is the case.

Adamantium doesn't melt at ANY temperature, and Cap's shield is not only more durable it will null out energy used against it. Cyclops unloaded a full force beam at it and not only did it NOT break the shield, Cap was able to charge straight at Scott like his beam wasn't there.

The only way to damage the shield (and material like it) is molecular manipulation or high powered magic that ignores physics.
 
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Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,085
He's wrong about the composition of the shield, for one. Its Vibranium, steel, "something else that has never been replicated" AND it was reinforced with Asgardian Uru during the Fear Itself arc.

He also seems to argue that Cap's shield (or adamantium in general) not melting is impossible after it's been forged, despite marvel definitively showing and stating repeatedly that this is the case.

Adamantium doesn't melt at ANY temperature, and Cap's shield is not only more durable it will null out energy used against it. Cyclops unloaded a full force beam at it and not only did it NOT break the shield, Cap was able to charge straight at Scott like his beam wasn't there.

The only way to damage the shield (and material like it) is molecular manipulation or high powered magic that ignores physics.
Remember when Molecule Man took apart the shield, ironman's armor, and the silver surfer's board and said the most interesting thing was the shield?