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eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,236
The nods toward new players is promising to hear, as I've crashed against the rocks of CK2 more times than I'd care to admit. It's obvious they have some game design and big UX problems that so many people find the game's difficulty curve to be more of a straight vertical line as soon as they start the game. From the screenshots it doesn't seem like there will be any holistic rethinking of the UI though.

I'm definitely onboard and intrigued by the genetic DNA system which crafts the models, and like the idea of more RPG elements. The latter brings it more in line with my favorite grand strategy, Romance of the Three Kingdoms.


No "Deus Vult". Paradox is excising the term entirely. (Props to RPS for asking about this.)


I just read the RPS article and an update has been inserted on this point. Looks like Paradox is backpedalling a bit on whether "Deus Vult" will be in the game.
Update – Henrik Fåhraeus offered this comment: "I feel like this issue has been miscommunicated thus far. We have not specifically considered which terms are used in the game apart from making sense in the historical context. The team will decide how any text fits or does not fit into CK3 in a way that feels appropriate."
 
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Deleted member 15311

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,088
Damn, awesome news, although i don't even master CKII in any shape or form. Victoria III was the one i was expecting the most.
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
RPS issued an update:
Update – Henrik Fåhraeus offered this comment: "I feel like this issue has been miscommunicated thus far. We have not specifically considered which terms are used in the game apart from making sense in the historical context. The team will decide how any text fits or does not fit into CK3 in a way that feels appropriate."

Edit: Already posted. Oops!

My opinion is that I don't mind it too much being there, but I also wouldn't mind it being gone. The fandom will, unfortunately, always have the presence of some altright people, so removing it won't help much.
 
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Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
I just read the RPS article and an update has been inserted on this point. Looks like Paradox is backpedalling a bit on whether "Deus Vult" will be in the game.
That's makes more sense to me, part of what made the game interesting was how gameplay wise it encourages you to look at everything in the most pragmatic realpolitik way imaginable but then you'd always get phrases said by your character explaining how it was justified.

It almost feels like a joke when you manipulate the Pope into calling a crusade on Constantinople for a blatant land grab or call a Jihad on Sicily for a new trade route and then see your character don holy armor and end this obviously secular decision with "Deus Vult" or "Allahu Akbar"
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,234
Seattle
Wait, really? Is this some alt-right thing now?
That's makes more sense to me, part of what made the game interesting was how gameplay wise it encourages you to look at everything in the most pragmatic realpolitik way imaginable but then you'd always get phrases said by your character explaining how it was justified.

It almost feels like a joke when you manipulate the Pope into calling a crusade on Constantinople for a blatant land grab or call a Jihad on Sicily for a new trade route and then see your character don holy armor and end this obviously secular decision with "Deus Vult" or "Allahu Akbar"

I mean all decisions in the game from a player stand point are likely just a land grabs. Holy wars were easy ways to conquer lots of territory without claims.

The crusade mechanic was whoever got the most points got to keep the territory, so the crusade wasn't your best way to ensure a land grab. Although with holy fury, I believe you can choose who gets to keep the land (and it gives negative opinion Malus If you choose yourself)

I'm not sure why we want to hide from the fact that holy wars existed in those times.
 

NCR Ranger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,867
Dammit. This is the second time I spent all day programming and missed something huge. I loved CKII so I am pretty hyped for this and it being on game pass is just another plus for it. Hopefully, they have some kind of ruler designer as well.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,405
I just read the RPS article and an update has been inserted on this point. Looks like Paradox is backpedalling a bit on whether "Deus Vult" will be in the game.
That's a pretty disappointing response from Paradox. I guess time will tell where they actually land on the issue.

RPS mentions in the piece that they'll have more about CK3 & how it navigates its sensitive topics, so hopefully that won't be subject to Paradox jumping in and going "WAIT WE DIDN'T MEAN IT". I'd really like for Paradox to have an enlightened take on this stuff.
 

Cameron122

Rescued from SR388
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,289
Texas
my favorite game of all time is getting a sequel!!! Yay! Hope to see a proper government type for Byzantium.
 

Deleted member 58961

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 2, 2019
248
Seems like they're leaning into the RPG aspects, which makes a lot of sense. Feels like many people played it more like an SRPG than a straight-up grand strategy.

I wonder how much of this came out of the overly EU elements in I:R leading to its launch unpopularity.

Just hoping for a more accessible and in-depth tutorial. I've always wanted to get into CK2 but just never had enough free time to spend hours trying to wrap my head around it and the tutorial didn't really help at all.

Everything I've read sounds amazing!

Praying for something interactive AND directed, like Stellaris's mostly. The lastest one is more than a joke, especially given its had no meaningful change afaict since 1.1 and 1.2.

I've got the hots for the new UI. 😍 re: the deus vult thing, I can't help but wonder if they're going to correct the phrase to 'deus lo vult', since that ain't actually used by clueless fash. all the same, all the brigading going on at the moment is trying to depress tf out of me.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,405
Er... So CK2 just got the Monarch's Journey. Where you complete challenges in Crusader Kings 2 to unlock cosmetics in Crusader Kings 3, I guess?
Crusader Kings II now features the Monarch's Journey! The Monarch's Journey is a new way of exploring the world of Crusader Kings and will help you earn cosmetic add-ons for Crusader Kings III through Ruler Challenges.

The Ruler Challenges present you with a new realm with a specific objective to achieve. Whether you are a newcomer or a veteran The Monarch's Journey is your chance to (re)learn parts of the game, try new worlds and new ways of play in our infinite medieval sandbox!

Just login with your Paradox Account in the launcher and enjoy the base game of this cult grand strategy game and its new challenges NOW:

source: https://steamcommunity.com/games/203770/announcements/detail/1569993750898763280

Paradox what are you doing...
 

Lord Arcadio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,172
I tried out the challenges this morning. It features a new bronzeman mode which uses the ironman rules except you can have multiple saves. In order to do the challenges, you have to play in either bronzeman or ironman.

It isn't going to be hard for veterans to do, but people starting out or people who kinda know what they are doing but still aren't good at the game might have a somewhat difficult time. There will be new challenges every two weeks. I do not know if you can continue doing old challenges or if they go away. Hopefully all the challenges stay as new ones get added.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,087
I tried out the challenges this morning. It features a new bronzeman mode which uses the ironman rules except you can have multiple saves. In order to do the challenges, you have to play in either bronzeman or ironman.

It isn't going to be hard for veterans to do, but people starting out or people who kinda know what they are doing but still aren't good at the game might have a somewhat difficult time. There will be new challenges every two weeks. I do not know if you can continue doing old challenges or if they go away. Hopefully all the challenges stay as new ones get added.
There are some lateral arrows in the challenge thingie, so I hope they stay. Otherwise forcing players to do a campaign in 2 weeks time is a bit of an asshole time :P

Edit: In the forums it is said that scenarios will be unlocked forever.
 

Jegriva

Banned
Sep 23, 2019
5,519
I can't wait to head a rebellion just in time to be killed by my own brother after a successful coup!

I know some people ruined everyone's fun, but this is a bit of a shame in a game literally called Crusader Kings.
The first expansion of the original (which wasn't original developed by PDS) was called Deus Vult in 2007.
 
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Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
What is the difference between playing something like Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis? Is it similar, but with more of an emphasis on royal lineage and the spreading of religion?
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,405
Rock, Paper, Shotgun has a new article outlining the importance of character in CK3:

This bit, about how events are now due to direct cause & effect, sounds really great:
The traits you cultivate for your character won't just inform their abilities, but the types of things that happen to them. Maximilian Olbers, the game's content design lead, had been working on Stellaris prior to moving focus to CK3, and took a lot of that game's thinking on event design over with him.

"A big one we learned from Stellaris is that it's good when there's a direct link between action and reaction in the case of events," he explains. "The old style would have random events popping up and telling you something that might or might not be relevant, generated by basic game state parameters and a random timer. We're successfully moving away from that now – virtually every event in Crusader Kings 3 is a direct consequence of either an action that you did, or an AI actor in your vicinity."

For example, if a nearby ruler picks a diplomatic lifestyle for themself, and focuses on building their skill in foreign affairs, you can expect to see the results in your own realm. They might invite you on hunts, or lavish diplomatic summits… but they might also choose to throw their weight around more in the ducal political landscape. "It's important to remember that almost all of the events are two-sided," says Olber. "Either you're doing something, or someone else is doing it to you."
It's a massive expansion to the Way of Life expansion's handling of character cultivation.

The article also outlines some new/deeper systems. Notably, intrigue (schemes) are about quality rather than quantity, and with knights (named non-commanders) in an army, the possibility of defeats in battle being catastrophic to your court. Church holdings are also more important, with a physical representation on the map and more characters to interact with.

They also outline the stress sytem:
Not only does CK3 allow more opportunities to roleplay, but it gives you good reasons to do so, too. Fåhraeus explains: "In CK2, you can largely ignore your own personality traits. You're the player character, right, so why does it matter? In this game, we wanted to make it matter." The answer to this is the Stress system, which imposes difficulties if you play wildly against your character type. "It's nothing major to begin with, but for each level of stress you gain, you risk a negative trait or another type of cost, and if you hit the roof, it's bad news."

Then, they talk about how Paradox is following the "losing is fun" model for CK3, which inspired the dynasty system. Basically, it is a skill tree/influence system that accrues as you play, allowing you to shape your dynasty in a real Game of Thrones fashion. So if your empire collapses, it won't feel like you lost everything.

There's way more detail in the article, but it basically sounds like they're doubling down on the very best elements of CK2, and designing CK3 from the ground up around them. It sounds incredible.

Right on, Paradox.
What is the difference between playing something like Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis? Is it similar, but with more of an emphasis on royal lineage and the spreading of religion?
On top of what Kyora posted, it's also more like an RPG than EU; something that CK3 is leaning more into.
 

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,505
Portugal
What is the difference between playing something like Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis? Is it similar, but with more of an emphasis on royal lineage and the spreading of religion?
alongside what Kyora90 said i want to add what she/he means.

EU and CIV are similar in the sense that most of your focus is int he outside of your contry. In EU IV is all about having a strong military and economy while CIV depends on what victory condition you chose.

CK2 has 2 main focus:
1) roleplaying as your char
events change depending on the traits of your char; other leaders will like you or hate depending on your traits. But most important is your relationship with your vassals. The game has several mechanics taht force you to have a small ammount of territory thus required to lean on your vassals for both taxes and levies. Thus this leads to the 2nd point

2) internal country politics
Since the ammount of "Power" you can wield is highly dependant on your vassals being loyal it means that there will be a lot of maneuvering from your vassals to try and curb your power (by for example increasing council authority) while you are trying to please the strong loyal vassals while striping the power of those that either are too big to control or are a potential threat to you. For example if one of your brothers is a powerful member of your country he might create a faction to steal your throne. If your vassals are loyal to you he might never declare war.

CK2 is much more focused in char and relations between them.
 

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,505
Portugal
Gamesplanet UK has CK3 royal edition at a really good price. 58€ for me.

I dont know if I should buy the normal edition or the royal one, $40 is a bit much compared to $27
I think you need to take the time and see what time of player you are.

For I example I buy most DLCs from PDS (and a few other companies) at launch. Why? because their games are a lot of fun to me. For example I am giving GTA V a try because it was supposedly a good game. I have played for a few hours and i am already regretting the 100gb donwload. For me the game is "jack of all trades master of none" boring game, is the game pretty? kinda. Is driving good? meh. is the shooting nice? no. Is the storyline engaging? i have had Ck2 roleplay with better plot. My point is that for my tastes wasting money in DLC for games I already like is better than trying a new game. So if the decision is will i waste 60€ on a new game vs 60€ in a DLC for a game I like. I'd choose the DLC every time. After all when i playing stellaris and other PDS i am having so much fun that i lose the track of time. While with other games I don't get that feeling.

For others it might be different. For some people they prefer putting their money in new games and skip the DLC; after all who knows if you are still playing the game when the DLC launches. Or maybe you can just buy the base game and wait for sales in the DLC. OR maybe you prefer a more polished experience so you only buy ck3 2-3 years after launch when the gameplay as matured.

Logically speaking the "correct" way would probably be to buy the base game when reviews are out. See the contents of the DLC before buying the DLC. If the major expansion is not to your taste then it might be cheaper to buy all other DLC separately instead of the more expansive edition.

If money is tight maybe going the gamepass route is better?

IMO no one here can give you the correct answer. You should ask yourself how often you buy PDS DLC and how satisfied you are with the purchases of the ones you made.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,678
Gamesplanet UK has CK3 royal edition at a really good price. 58€ for me.


I think you need to take the time and see what time of player you are.

For I example I buy most DLCs from PDS (and a few other companies) at launch. Why? because their games are a lot of fun to me. For example I am giving GTA V a try because it was supposedly a good game. I have played for a few hours and i am already regretting the 100gb donwload. For me the game is "jack of all trades master of none" boring game, is the game pretty? kinda. Is driving good? meh. is the shooting nice? no. Is the storyline engaging? i have had Ck2 roleplay with better plot. My point is that for my tastes wasting money in DLC for games I already like is better than trying a new game. So if the decision is will i waste 60€ on a new game vs 60€ in a DLC for a game I like. I'd choose the DLC every time. After all when i playing stellaris and other PDS i am having so much fun that i lose the track of time. While with other games I don't get that feeling.

For others it might be different. For some people they prefer putting their money in new games and skip the DLC; after all who knows if you are still playing the game when the DLC launches. Or maybe you can just buy the base game and wait for sales in the DLC. OR maybe you prefer a more polished experience so you only buy ck3 2-3 years after launch when the gameplay as matured.

Logically speaking the "correct" way would probably be to buy the base game when reviews are out. See the contents of the DLC before buying the DLC. If the major expansion is not to your taste then it might be cheaper to buy all other DLC separately instead of the more expansive edition.

If money is tight maybe going the gamepass route is better?

IMO no one here can give you the correct answer. You should ask yourself how often you buy PDS DLC and how satisfied you are with the purchases of the ones you made.
I guess it depends on how complete the base game is, if mongol tribes play more or less the same as germanic tribes and the dlc is to give variety to that ...