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Cryptocurrency |OT2| Money's New ERA Shoots for the Moon! | Read OP for Thread Rules
- Thread starter breakYODAy
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Ok, so here is the new poll.
Added some new questions, consolidated and removed others. Any feedback is welcome in terms of answers provided or how questions are worded to reduce possible confusion.
Edit: Fixed https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZM8YW68, apologies to those who have done this multiple times
Note, when it comes to the questions on if you're up/down overall, skip over the question that doesn't apply to you, you're not forced to answer the questions to complete the survey.
Example: If you're down overall, answer the "How much are you down" question, and skip the "How much are you up" question. Have a few people answering both questions and it's going to throw off some of the tabulations. Same goes with any question that simply doesn't apply to your situation.
Added some new questions, consolidated and removed others. Any feedback is welcome in terms of answers provided or how questions are worded to reduce possible confusion.
Edit: Fixed https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZM8YW68, apologies to those who have done this multiple times
Note, when it comes to the questions on if you're up/down overall, skip over the question that doesn't apply to you, you're not forced to answer the questions to complete the survey.
Example: If you're down overall, answer the "How much are you down" question, and skip the "How much are you up" question. Have a few people answering both questions and it's going to throw off some of the tabulations. Same goes with any question that simply doesn't apply to your situation.
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This coin i posted a vid about recently just collected 180 million $ from private investors... smh.
https://cointelegraph.com/press-releases/hetachain-officially-raises-185-650-000-from-private-sale
Looks like a wannabe "jack of all trade" coin but is probably just a huge upcoming pump and dump project. Either way, just want my free airdrop coins after the public sale so i don't mind if it pumps huge afterwards :).
Sorry if I'm not pumping coins, and my personal assets are none of your business :)
I'm pessimistic because, well, look at whats been happening. Sorry if you want a bitcoin supporters club, but the reality is this stuff is tanking, and pretending the sky isn't falling does it no favours.
Hell, Brandson warned you months ago.
Point 1.) You don't need to derail my post as i didn't specifically ask for your assets but if you have one. Like, if you only invest in assets like Apple and co, people like this tend to downplay on crypto anyway, that was my main concern.
Point 2.) Also, you don't need to hype or pump coins, as i'm not doing it either, and neither does anyone here. But you only include negativity and pessimism, which no one needs here anyway. We don't need a support club, no one asked for that. Just because it's tanking doesn't mean it's bad per se.
Edit: Yes, before anyone hijacks that point, there might be, but no need to put everyone here in the same jar. I still think that most or the majority add objective posts.
Point 3.) I talked about an ongoing crash just as long as Brandson did. No need to educate me.
I think you just don't understand the difference between:
1.) being invested and still leading to a flourishing discussion (> yes please)
2.) being invested and only add "omg we go down bois" (> no thanks)
3.) not being invested and leading to flourishing discussions (> yes please)
4.) not being invested and also adding pessimism and negative views (> no one ever asked for that)
And again, when i talk about a discussion i talk about a neutral and objective view. You're adding nothing like this. To add it one last time, don't derail my post again, i'm none of your hype poster or any of those, but i have a positive outlook longterm and that's all there is to it.
I can only speak for myself here. But, I see what's going on in the market as well. I'm not blind. I'm also not shilling coins or trying to pretend that everything is cool. I do think that blockchain is the future though. And there's plenty of proof that a lot of companies, governments, cities and innovators think this too. Of course, there's still a long road ahead of us. All this daily gossip about the charts is not a fruitful discussion imho. At least not for me. Forget what Bitcoin does tomorrow and look at what might happen months or maybe years from now. Does that still make you pessimistic?
For those not aware, I want to make sure everyone sees this: https://mkr.tools/system/liquidations
In oversimplified terms (if any of this is not quite right, please correct me), Maker is an organization that allows for anyone to borrow DAI (an algorithm-controlled stable crypto currency) by putting up ETH as collateral. Each borrowing contract is called a CDP. Each CDP has a liquidation price determined by how much is borrowed and how much collateral is put down. As the price of ETH falls, each CDP-holder must either put up more collateral or pay off some of their CDP, otherwise their CDP will be liquidated, and the ETH collateral will be market sold.
There is currently a huge glut of CDPs with liquidation prices just below $70. If nothing changes with those CDPs, there could be a situation where most outstanding CDPs get liquidated. The amount of ETH that would be liquidated presently greatly exceeds the buy orders for ETH in the visible portion of Coinbase's books. The buy side on Coinbase is presently visible down to $26.
Maybe the holders of these CDPs move their liquidation prices, and maybe ETH doesn't fall below $70, but if you suddenly see ETH spike to $1, this would be a contributing factor. All those contracts waiting to be liquidated might also be too tempting for those steering this market, so be very careful. I continue to not hold any crypto. Trade at your own risk.
In oversimplified terms (if any of this is not quite right, please correct me), Maker is an organization that allows for anyone to borrow DAI (an algorithm-controlled stable crypto currency) by putting up ETH as collateral. Each borrowing contract is called a CDP. Each CDP has a liquidation price determined by how much is borrowed and how much collateral is put down. As the price of ETH falls, each CDP-holder must either put up more collateral or pay off some of their CDP, otherwise their CDP will be liquidated, and the ETH collateral will be market sold.
There is currently a huge glut of CDPs with liquidation prices just below $70. If nothing changes with those CDPs, there could be a situation where most outstanding CDPs get liquidated. The amount of ETH that would be liquidated presently greatly exceeds the buy orders for ETH in the visible portion of Coinbase's books. The buy side on Coinbase is presently visible down to $26.
Maybe the holders of these CDPs move their liquidation prices, and maybe ETH doesn't fall below $70, but if you suddenly see ETH spike to $1, this would be a contributing factor. All those contracts waiting to be liquidated might also be too tempting for those steering this market, so be very careful. I continue to not hold any crypto. Trade at your own risk.
Leaving aside Ryus attempts to police the thread to his liking.
-I've not yet seen a use case for Blockchain technology that isn't already handled better by existing technology. It's being invested in because maybe it can, but not yet.
-I strongly feel that most existing coins have a value almost or entirely based on speculation. Anyone serious actually using this tech in the future would create their own coin.
-The environmental impact of crypto, and Bitcoin in particular, is appalling. Using the same electrical output as the republic of Ireland to power this is entirely disgraceful.
-Honestly I'm looking forward to what happens after the end of the speculation bubble craters most crypto to near zero, it'll be a much better space for any actual innovation.
Incidentally this is a very good primer on 'blockchain', and where it's at.
https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchai...-market-researchers-tuesday-20-november-2018/
Warning, don't click on it if you don't want to read criticism, and the video is a long watch. It's rigorous though.
https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchai...-market-researchers-tuesday-20-november-2018/
Warning, don't click on it if you don't want to read criticism, and the video is a long watch. It's rigorous though.
Bakkt fanning their hype flames
https://beincrypto.com/starbucks-may-accept-bitcoin-claims-bakkt-ceo/
https://beincrypto.com/starbucks-may-accept-bitcoin-claims-bakkt-ceo/
Thought that was a given, why else would Starbucks be involved. Doubt they'll be making actual transactions though; Bakkt will probably be playing bank for both companies and consumers, and the BTC will only "transfer" in their internal ledger.
For what it's worth, I enjoy your posts. And I very much agree with these points.
I agree with everything you've said in your post.
I would just say that to this one specific point; blockchain and open ledger technology in general has the potential to completely change and disrupt the global financial settlements and correspondent banking industry. There is a real use case there.
Maybe a stupid question, so my apologies, but what does blockchain tech being useful (generally) have to do with the values of cryptocurrency?
In other words, if some big company goes all in on blockchain tech for something like supply chain management, why would that spell good news for the values of BTC or ETH specifically?
In other words, if some big company goes all in on blockchain tech for something like supply chain management, why would that spell good news for the values of BTC or ETH specifically?
Not a stupid question and it probably wouldn't mean anything for cryptos, especially not for BTC. I kinda see the value of blockchain for supply management / logistics but all those tokens are likely worthless. Even IBM using Stellar might not mean anything since they very well could just be using the protocol to run their own private blockchain without spending lumens.
Private blockchain solutions are controversial. Blockchain is supposed to be 'trustless', decentralized, secure (immutable), transparent.
If a large manufacturer decided to implement some sort of supply chain tracking solution with its suppliers and subcontractors then why would it need to be blockchain based? The manufacturer would still retain most of the power and probably be able to establish or manipulate ground truth.
Maybe the suppliers are still ok with that in the aforementioned example, but other use cases may require public blockchains.
Speculation happens with any new commodity or type of technology. I think the most interesting point now is thinking of Crypto as we have thought of any fiat during its creation period. Bitcoin is 10 years old, USD is almost a hundred years old —- it has time to work itself out. If anything, crypto right is more based on resource scarcity than it is store of value or transactions. As Blockchain tech evolves and ICOs die a horrible death, I think the use case of Crypto using traditional methods will emerge as either more secure or less immutable. Be interesting what lies ahead.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I see a lot of people point to the worthiness of blockchain technology (and I agree it has some promise) as some kind of boost to cryptocurrency values once blockchain becomes more widely used and I'm struggling to see the connection.
It seems to me blockchain could take off like wildfire, but coins like BTC and ETH (or any other coin) aren't neccesarily going to benefit if that happens.
Most people in crypto don't even ask that question -- they just see headlines and get hyped.
ETH is a little more interesting in this regard, as it's used to pay for transaction fees for any apps built on top of the etherium blockchain. But it is not easy to predict what etherium blockchain activity will do to the price of ETH. I'd be curious to see if there's any correlation, but I'm not sure how to find data about activity on the etherium blockchain (like how many cryptokitty transactions were done over time etc).
But personally, I'm still skeptical that blockchain has any real potential at all. Everything shown so far has serious drawbacks over traditional technologies. Etherium was experiencing major congestion from a stupid app like crypto kitties. This doesn't just affect the app causing congestion, it creates a backlog of all transactions. It's like everyone is hosting their website on a shared virtual host -- your neighbor's website sees a bump or they have some poorly optimized app running and your small site gets bogged down. Imagine if your paypal transaction was delayed because some unrelated chat app was spiking in usage. It's almost like creating an entire alternate internet that's worse because it forces p2p networking.
Proponents will often say "it takes days to send money from bank to bank!" -- and it's true, ACH is slow and archaic. But that's already been disrupted by technology. It's called PayPal and it's nearly 20 years old. Now there's even more -- Venmo, Cash App, etc. But more importantly, ACH isn't even a technological limitation, it's a legal one (underpinned by incumbent banks that don't want a better, less profitable system). It takes mere seconds to send money between banks in the UK through Faster Payments (over a decade old) and much of the rest of the world. So crypto is slower than traditional technologies. That system in the UK is close to free, so it also beats crypto's transaction fees -- which in my experience, were closer to credit card transaction fees, a few percent -- at least if you want it to be faster (still waited hours).
Now, proponents will respond to my above criticisms of etherium congestion by pointing out that etherium will be moving to proof of stake and get much faster (it currently operates on proof of work, similar to bitcoin), but that keeps getting delayed. The pursuit of a scalable proof of stake system is starting to feel like the pursuit of the perpetual motion machine, which has lasted centuries and has grifted many people. An immutable ledger that can't be gamed, but without the effort of mining -- might just be too good to be true. And if we're left with only mined coins, they don't seem worth it to me. Their advantages over traditional technologies are negligible and their energy cost is stupidly abhorrent.
Potential, maybe. But no use cases yet that aren't better served by other technology. This stuff has been in the wild for a decade at this point with no good use case.
Link here investigating blockchain claims and use cases:
http://merltech.org/blockchain-for-...-a-learning-agenda-to-address-knowledge-gaps/
Ayup, but there's Western Union, Paypal and a host of other cheap services for that.
But they are not free which was the point wasn't it?
Also, there's no denying transaction costs have been percentually ridiculous for BTC and others but there's also been LTC transactions valued at almost 100M$ costing cents in fees. I say give it time.
Great if true: no fee PayPal withdrawals on coinbase
https://beincrypto.com/coinbase-adds-free-paypal-withdrawals/
https://beincrypto.com/coinbase-adds-free-paypal-withdrawals/
I don't think we're talking about the same things here. Just to name a few, I think there is a use case in using a distributed ledger as a possible mitigation to the current single point of failure risk of traditional custodial banking arrangements.(in 2008 this risk became a reality).
I also think there is a use case that distributed ledgers could offer an improvement over the traditional dvp/rvp settlement of security transactions in that they could mitigate the credit risk and market risk that currently exists in that settlement process.
We haven't even touched on the cost of correspondent banking or reserve requirements for global fx trading vis-a-vis central banks.
These are all existing technologies and workflows that the industry agrees are not optimal and need to change and have been looking for ways to change them.
That's not to say it would be easy or without risk to use blockchain or distributed ledgers as an alternative, but with due respect, it's silly to say there aren't use cases for blockchain/distributed ledgers where they are an improvement over existing technologies.
There's a reason every central bank and every major financial institution is spending significant resources on this, they all see the potential for distributed ledgers to be a game changing technology in clearing and settlements.
https://www.bis.org/cpmi/publ/d157.pdf
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One who can't even write Ethereum and blames it for being the worlds worst invention is the only thing that worries me.
There's a difference between a decentralised system and one that is centralised, right?
I also wanted to point out that Bitcoins economical impact is always stated as an issue, while big banks have a lot more impact. Banking systems waste a lot more energy, but of course this is never included in criticism.
There still remains a single positive post from some people left to be seen. But to say that blockchain has no potential at all, when that's exactly what the greatest Bitcoin criticism is not saying, makes me really worried about some posts. I stretch out far from my window and say you're not one of those greater minds.
Also, there was a link from someone i don't want to mention, to one of the bigger Bitcoin nitpickers. He literally published a book with everything that's wrong about Bitcoin and swims in his salivation of bad publicity for Bitcoin as he wants to make it big time with downplaying and criticism in every single aspect. Those people of course get a lot of platform as soon as something goes down, but are nowhere to be heard when it goes up.
Some here got either:
1.) Pretty BAD hurt
2.) Salivating happy as they left out first time, were jealous on top, and want to see it die completely now. There will be an answer to those in the coming months or years, but my bet is on Bitcoin and not you.
There's a difference between a decentralised system and one that is centralised, right?
I also wanted to point out that Bitcoins economical impact is always stated as an issue, while big banks have a lot more impact. Banking systems waste a lot more energy, but of course this is never included in criticism.
There still remains a single positive post from some people left to be seen. But to say that blockchain has no potential at all, when that's exactly what the greatest Bitcoin criticism is not saying, makes me really worried about some posts. I stretch out far from my window and say you're not one of those greater minds.
Also, there was a link from someone i don't want to mention, to one of the bigger Bitcoin nitpickers. He literally published a book with everything that's wrong about Bitcoin and swims in his salivation of bad publicity for Bitcoin as he wants to make it big time with downplaying and criticism in every single aspect. Those people of course get a lot of platform as soon as something goes down, but are nowhere to be heard when it goes up.
Some here got either:
1.) Pretty BAD hurt
2.) Salivating happy as they left out first time, were jealous on top, and want to see it die completely now. There will be an answer to those in the coming months or years, but my bet is on Bitcoin and not you.
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You seriously think a Paypal/FastPayments transaction has a higher energy cost than a bitcoin transaction...?
Or, as many proponents do, are you misleadingly comparing the energy costs of the entire financial industry to the energy costs of just a blockchain? Ignoring all the employees, offices, cars, and whatnot involved in making the crypto markets work (coinbase, etc hire people and have offices with carbon footprints just like banks).
I spent $0 on my crypto and cashed out low 5 figures at the peak, so I did ok.
How's your LISK doing?
A distributed, immutable ledger would definitely be useful. I'm just skeptical that it's possible to have one that is
- non-exploitable
- immutable
- quick
- cheap to transact on
- not require a disproportionate amount of processing power to make the above possible so that it's actually worth it over traditional technologies
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I talk specifically about the banking sector. I don't talk about Paypal, did i talk about Paypal? How safe is Paypal? Does Paypal handle a decentralised currency? Now i talk about Paypal, and Paypal is nothing to Bitcoin. I don't talk about Paypal.
If you include Coinbase, you would literally also need to include all the brokers that work with stocks, as those are important for USD and other currencies too. The blockchain itself doesn't need Coinbase to be stable, neither does it need any broker. I speak about Bitcoin specifically. With a single big decentralised DEX, we wouldn't need to spend a dime on a footprint you just made up. You don't even need a single exchange at all to contribute to the system and get some Bitcoin.
On the other hand, the whole banking structure does. When you expand the system of Bitcoins "footprint", i could expand the banking sector also to the whole monetary system. The paper creation has a footprint, the buildings have a footprint, the workers have a footprint. Every store that receives and spends paper needs to carry and place it somewhere. I could go on and on.
Gold also does, as USD and other currencies are depending on gold. Do i need to go on what money we spent for people that have to defend gold? But someone made that post also already, can read it up a page before i think. What about all those "footprints"?
The currency system is the biggest cardhouse that is waiting to fall down. People grow up without seeing gold probably their whole life, gold gets less and less importance. Same with stocks, as people want less and less to invest in stocks. Zeros and zeros get added digitally the whole time, those $ don't exist.
When you expand the footprint and everything that the monetary system right now includes, i say goodnight to your Bitcoins bad economy impact. On top of it all, we have no chance to say stop to inflation and money printing. And we need to trust those people, which pay people big sums to print the right amounts and not doing something shady. We need to trust them, but still banks get judged with money laundering over and over again (2 cases just this week). Those footprints are far higher than any of your economical ones too. Where is your positive post about not needing trust, as the system itself is "fair", while banking never was.
Considering that you cashed out so high, you don't seem to be able to use coinmarketcap.com.
But because you asked nicely, LISK is trading 95% less than its ATH. My investment is doing fine and development is great :)
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It's kind of always been a mix of this for the crypto threads as far as I know and have seen. 2017 was a great year for growth but most of the "visitors" were concentrated in the last two months of the year when people were things were exponential. Theres anger from a crowd when people are making money hand over fist, and prayers for this to truly be the "real death" of crypto during down markets. Same ol' same ol'. Most of the community here has learned to ignore it by now.
I now constantly get messages or questions when i meet friends with "Hey, how are your coins doing wink wink grin grin" or they send me mainstream articles of how much down Bitcoin is now compared to late 2017. Lots of "i told you that this was hot air". My mother is one of them.
Funny thing is that all these people where really thirsty to get some piece of the pie when i casually talked with them in late 2017 about this whole crypto and my portfolio gains. But i said to them that they should read up about it themself and that i would not give any "this coin is good" or "go all in on Tether!!!" advice, to not be at fault when their money eventually evaporates. Specially since some of them thought about pouring in some serious amounts of fiat into this which i didn't condone. So most of them hesitated and are now parading that they dodged a bullet.
I'm not bothered since i already made money almost out of thin air. Crypto is just really an interesting hobby for me with the benefit of getting cash here and there. And i'm also glad that some of them didn't invest since i know they would not really read up on the matter, send their XRP to a BTC wallet or write their passphrases on some kitchen napkin and lose everything.
I have nothing against people be critical about Crypto or giving fair warnings but it sometimes really slides into "everything is SCAM/BUBBLE" territory which doesn't add anything to the thread.
-Distributed databases already exist.
-Companies spend huge amounts on potential technologies.
-I never denied that there MAY be some use in Blockchain, just that, per the investigation I posted, it ain't there after a decade.
This is because banks process billions of times more transactions. Traditional transactions are on the order of a million times more energy efficient than Bitcoin.
I made money from Crypto and got out. 'Investing'* in it now is not a smart move.
*Lets face it, gambling.
ARK successfully migrated to v2. New desktop wallet is out. Let's see if the delegate fees change.
https://blog.ark.io/new-frontiers-ark-desktop-wallet-v2-67df8f7bcbb5
https://blog.ark.io/new-frontiers-ark-desktop-wallet-v2-67df8f7bcbb5
A story about a guy having 1.2k BTC (yes the k is correct) stuck on Binance and trying to rally reddit from time to time to help him. But he doesn't really want law enforcement involved...
Comments are a good read.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurr..._lost_in_the_world/?utm_source=reddit-android
A bit backstory from Binance point of view:
"**Binance Response:**
The acco...
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurr...n_the_world/eb4vyks?utm_source=reddit-android
Comments are a good read.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurr..._lost_in_the_world/?utm_source=reddit-android
A bit backstory from Binance point of view:
"**Binance Response:**
The acco...
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurr...n_the_world/eb4vyks?utm_source=reddit-android
lol, saw that a couple of months ago, he's still at it? Dude either stole those coins or got them from running DM or something.
Yeah he's ignoring all posts asking about lawyers/law enforcement and his doctored Screenshot. With 1.2k legally aquires BTC, i would have already hired several elite lawfirms and talked to the FBI /federal LE institution of my country.
But hey, let's ask reddit.
But hey, let's ask reddit.
$93.90 hit on Coinbase. I think the $50-$60 region is quite likely, perhaps even this week. There might be a pitstop in the 80's. Trade at your own risk.
After that post you made about Maker I put some orders in at the rock bottom of ETH. I dont think they would trigger in case of a flash crash because I think coinbase has some kind of system in place to prevent that. But since I have some fiat there, may as well play the lottery for a few thousand ETH for a buck a piece, lol.
USDC-ETH on GDAX has a flash crash to 18 dollars last night.
Some people woke up to a nice stack of ETH
Some people woke up to a nice stack of ETH
