CTR Nitro Fueled includes a racially insensitive skin for Tawna [see staff post: discussion guidelines]

unholyFarmer

Member
Jan 22, 2019
318
Colorism is not the same as calling someone colored. Colorism is when people favor people with whiter skin(even if they are PoC) to darker ones. This is a thing in Brazil and latin american countries as mostly of actors, people on magazines, etc are white or white passing.
Yeah, colorism is a huge issue in Brazil due to the reasons you pointed out (alongside some bad shit rooted in most of the families there). Some people have the impression that racism in Brazil is not as serious as in the US due to centuries of miscegenation and since segregation worked in a different way in these countries. But if you take colorism in particular, I think it is even worse (as it is something spread among all population groups).
 

Red Arremer

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,316
Again, here's the Switch version's using the Switch's own screenshot function - no stream artifacting or capture device changing the saturation or stuff like that - I posted those earlier in the thread.



The selection icon is much darker than the actual model (you can't even tell the lighter part of the muzzle from the darker part of the head on it, but it's very clearly visible on the icon), and in the icon, the colour is, imo, more auburn, much like her hair in the icon.
 

Cloud-Hidden

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,933
I'll admit. I skipped five pages of commentary, and I'm posting *only* after seeing the high-res photo.

Her fur is not that dark, and she is *very clearly* wearing a shirt that's (correct me if I'm wrong) literally a watermelon. Are we still under the impression that there was something fishy and malevolent going on behind the scenes here? Are any other character variations named after the clothes that they're wearing? I don't have the game so I can't check. If they are, though, I don't think there's really anything more to this.

Edit: The Switch captures do make her fur look a little darker. If I saw this in a vacuum on my own, though, I definitely would have made the t-shirt connection (and the light green shorts) and figured "that's that."
 
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Napalm_Frank

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,037
Finland
Again, here's the Switch version's using the Switch's own screenshot function - no stream artifacting or capture device changing the saturation or stuff like that - I posted those earlier in the thread.



The selection icon is much darker than the actual model (you can't even tell the lighter part of the muzzle from the darker part of the head on it, but it's very clearly visible on the icon), and in the icon, the colour is, imo, more auburn, much like her hair in the icon.
Makes you wonder if they already altered the skin to be lighter but left the old icon for some reason.
 

jacktuar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,761
Nope, I miss players being players. Enjoying good games and making guides and whatnot. Nowadays everything gets political. Fewer people enjoy things, they only want "justice". There is a word in my language that describes this kind of behavior, but out of respect I shall restrain.
Is it ‘decency’?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,270
I'll admit. I skipped five pages of commentary, and I'm posting *only* after seeing the high-res photo.

Her fur is not that dark, and she is *very clearly* wearing a shirt that's (correct me if I'm wrong) literally a watermelon. Are we still under the impression that there was something fishy and malevolent going on behind the scenes here? Are any other character variations named after the clothes that they're wearing? I don't have the game so I can't check. If they are, though, I don't think there's really anything more to this.

Edit: The Switch captures do make her fur look a little darker. If I saw this vacuum on my own, though, I definitely would have made the t-shirt connection (and the light green shorts) and figured "that's that."
Somebody posted another character with a watermelon themed skin. I feel the same way, it's an unfortunate coincidence at worst.
 

Red Arremer

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,316
I'll admit. I skipped five pages of commentary, and I'm posting *only* after seeing the high-res photo.

Her fur is not that dark, and she is *very clearly* wearing a shirt that's (correct me if I'm wrong) literally a watermelon. Are we still under the impression that there was something fishy and malevolent going on behind the scenes here? Are any other character variations named after the clothes that they're wearing? I don't have the game so I can't check. If they are, though, I don't think there's really anything more to this.

Edit: The Switch captures do make her fur look a little darker. If I saw this vacuum on my own, though, I definitely would have made the t-shirt connection (and the light green shorts) and figured "that's that."
Yes, some other character skins are themed after food (including another Watermelon skin on N. Oxide that I also posted earlier) and/or named after their clothing. For instance, Isabella has a skin that's called "Mermaid" where she's wearing teal and mauve-coloured clothing and her hair also is mauve. The same character has a Racer skin which changes her suit to have a checkered finish flag pattern. There's a Lemonade skin for Megumi where she's dressed in a yellow suit with lemon patterns on it. Just to name a few examples.

Makes you wonder if they already altered the skin to be lighter but left the old icon for some reason.
All of the character icons are darker than the actual character models - but it's hard to make a full equivalence given that the renders likely have different lighting than the models do.
 

Lant_War

The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
7,776
I don’t really see another reading. It it’s anything else it’s an enormous coincidence. Even that unfortunate coincidence would be avoided by hiring more than 0 black people.
The lack of black people explains how they might've missed it, and considering how it looks on the other console versions (the ones Beenox is likely most used with) Tawna isn't so dark in this version it's more understandable
 

FrostyLemon

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,635
user banned (permanent): concern trolling over race; previous severe infraction excusing discrimination and a history of dismissive behavior in sensitive threads
I'm British and I learnt something new today. I watched Child's Play recently in the cinema and the black detective made a quip about a white guy dying in a watermelon patch and it totally went over me and my friends heads. Now I understand. Americans just need to understand that what's racially sensitive in their culture isn't racially sensitive in ours or others. When you guys refer to black people as 'people of colour' I wince because in England calling a black guy anything close to 'coloured' would get you a smack in the chops.
 

BasilZero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,700
Omni
Her shirt in that color is watermelon colored (at least I think it is).


They should have made the skin light and keep everything else or change the name and the shirt lol.
 

Ryuhza

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,005
San Diego County
Edit: The Switch captures do make her fur look a little darker. If I saw this vacuum on my own, though, I definitely would have made the t-shirt connection (and the light green shorts) and figured "that's that."
Worth noting that the Switch version lacks the actual fur rendering and has slightly simpler shadows that often look a bit darker than the other versions.

Her shirt in that color is watermelon colored (at least I think it is).


They should have made the skin light and keep everything else or change the name and the shirt lol.
If they want the simplest fix, they could just rename the skin "Strawberry Tawna"
 

thatboydavey

Member
Jun 26, 2019
105
Worth noting that the Switch version lacks the actual fur rendering and has slightly simpler shadows that often look a bit darker than the other versions.



If they want the simplest fix, they could just rename the skin "Strawberry Tawna"
Yea, those Switch screen shots look way darker than what I'm seeing on my PS4 with HDR enabled. Going by those I could see why some people might take offense. On my end it looks auburn to me.
 

OldGamer

Member
Jul 6, 2019
33
Yeah.....that's gotta change. Should be patched ASAP.

Luckily it really just needs a name change.
 

MinusTydus

The Fallen
Jul 28, 2018
1,819
Yeah.....that's gotta change. Should be patched ASAP.

Luckily it really just needs a name change.
Tropical Tawna.

It's a better alliteration. It's sure as hell better than friggin' Watermelon Tawna.

It's not only the name, though. If they're gonna keep the darker skin tone, get rid of the damn Watermelon.

I still think someone thought they were bein' slick. Oh, it was an honest mistake!

Surejan.gif
 

OldGamer

Member
Jul 6, 2019
33
Tropical Tawna.

It's a better alliteration. It's sure as hell better than friggin' Watermelon Tawna.

It's not only the name, though. If they're gonna keep the darker skin tone, get rid of the damn Watermelon.

I still think someone thought they were bein' slick. Oh, it was an honest mistake!

Surejan.gif
Good call, the fruit design on the shirt should also be changed since leaving it as a watermelon would also evoke similar overtones.
 

Butch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,207
I think it's racist, but tbh we have no way of knowing if there was intent or not. I hope they change it soon.

from some post here you would think Brazil is rasim free. This is my problem with some fellow latinos, they refuse to admit there is racism and colorism in our countries and deflect it and blame Americans and stuff. Some Brazilians posters did the same in the black face thread and they don't realize how mostly of Brazilian TV is full of white or white passing actors and that other stuff.
No, you should read the thread again cause I'm sure absolutely no one said or implied that Brazil or others latino countries are racism free. The watermelon thing not being that relevant or known in Brasil (True) doesn't mean there's no racism, don't know how you got to that conclusion. There is racism just like in a lot of South America countries.

I can tell you for a fact most people here in Argentina haven't heard about it in their whole life and we still have tons of racist assholes.

I also think some people do ask this kind of questions in bad faith, it happens a lot, so I get where you guys are coming from, it sucks. Not saying it was the case here at all, but yeah, I totally get the defense.
 

i-Jest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,521
LOLOL WHY?

I'd like to think this wasn't intentional, but regardless QA was slacking and this isn't a good look for Activision.
 

Lant_War

The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
7,776
Saying something like "educate yourself" is not self righteus unless you are too used to people explaining everything to you.



from some post here you would think Brazil is rasim free. This is my problem with some fellow latinos, they refuse to admit there is racism and colorism in our countries and deflect it and blame Americans and stuff. Some Brazilians posters did the same in the black face thread and they don't realize how mostly of Brazilian TV is full of white or white passing actors and that other stuff.
I don't think anyone's denying that racism is rampant in latam. The people that said they didn't know about this stereotype were talking about this specific stereotype.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,740
North Carolina
The fact that they named it Watermelon and just have her a shirt is some bullshit. They could have gone with like pink hair and stuff for a watermelon theme like with Nitrus and the dark skin would have been fine if only to make the bright colors pop more. OR they could have just made her as orange as she is in the portrait. As it stands they just made her darker brown contrary to the portrait. With how it is its just racist.
 

nib95

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,675
Is the skin colour actually different? Because the third edited in screen posted shows her as having a similar light skin, just wearing the watermelon top. The first comparison images however show her with different shades of fur/skin colour.

If the skin/fur colour does change, that is fucked up and should be amended immediately, if however the colour stays the same and it's just the watermelon top that changes, then I think that's fine, though I'd still say it was a pretty weak and uninspired skin/top.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,591
Is the skin colour actually different? Because the third edited in screen posted shows her as having a similar light skin, just wearing the watermelon top. The first comparison images however show her with different shades of fur/skin colour.

If the skin/fur colour does change, that is fucked up and should be amended immediately, if however the colour stays the same and it's just the watermelon top that changes, then I think that's fine, though I'd still say it was a pretty weak and uninspired skin/top.
It’s a different fur color. All the different palette swaps change the fur color.

As for being uninspired, it’s a palette swap. I’m not sure why you expected more. There are some really clever ones (Kabuki face paint Norma for example) but most of them are pretty simple.
 

nib95

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,675
It’s a different fur color. All the different palette swaps change the fur color.

As for being uninspired, it’s a palette swap. I’m not sure why you expected more. There are some really clever ones (Kabuki face paint Norma for example) but most of them are pretty simple.
That's really fucked up then given the racist connotations. Hopefully they patch that out.

Regarding the skins being uninspired, I don't know, I just expected more elaborate differences than just a watermelon tank top swap. I haven't seen the other skin changes, so perhaps they're more interesting and complex.
 

Spinosaurus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,562
I'm just saying I never had issues of racial stereotypes against black people thrown in my face when drifting around Yoshi Circuit.

But if I missed something, please feel free to enlighten me.
I'm all for criticizing this, I'm just not about putting up Mario Kart in comparison when, as mentioned, I'm still seeing whitewashed Daisy.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,229
I'm American and I've never heard it referenced anywhere but the internet.

I'm white though, so that probably helps.
If you go to google image search and type "watermelon stereotype black" or something along those line, you'll see that there was a whole period of American history where this stereotype was not only prevalent, but it was socially acceptable in advertising.

Similarly, there was about a hundred year period where popular American music and theater consisted primarily of blackface, but then the civil rights movement rolled around and it was swept rapidly under the rug, so it's entirely possible it's just been hidden from you at this point.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,925
I'm black and still only saw nothing more than the shirt. Then you guys mentioned her fur tones and it's a whole new context.

I find it hard that they were intentional.
 
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Yarbskoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,894
If you go to google image search and type "watermelon stereotype black" or something along those line, you'll see that there was a whole period of American history where this stereotype was not only prevalent, but it was socially acceptable in advertising.

Similarly, there was about a hundred year period where popular American music and theater consisted primarily of blackface, but then the civil rights movement rolled around and it was swept rapidly under the rug, so it's entirely possible it's just been hidden from you at this point.
I'm not sure whether something like that is best forgotten or not.

Probably not, though it seems like people around here are more likely to see history as less a series of pitfalls to be avoided and more a list of accomplishments to be emulated.
 

SleepSmasher

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,500
Australia
Really? You profile says you are from Río de Janeiro, I have seen racist memes in portuguese using the watermelon stereotype. It's not like brazilians don't know about it.
I’m Brazilian as well and although not living there anymore I can guarantee that this isn’t a thing in Brazil at all.

Also, what if their QA isn’t in the US? Why people around here always assume the worst? So many hot takes.
 

Sanka

Member
Feb 17, 2019
356
Nah, it a UK thing as well, so not just a US thing. Not every black person wants to educate people on racist shit over and over again. It shouldn't just be down to black people to educate people either.
I haven't said anything about black people needing to do anything. Any person who is aware of it can educate. And yea it's probably confined to the anglosphere.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,956
This stereotype is 100% confined to american culture and its surroundings. Outside of america this is just not a thing. So if you aren't even aware of it, making the connection between black people and watermelon doesn't even cross your mind. The whole world doesn't revolve around the US.
Educate them and save this condescending attitude for something else.
My cousins in Norway know about the watermelon stereotype, and so do my friends in England. It's not a stereotype localized in America that isn't known or understood overseas. This entire argument is similar to people who bring out Bananas only being a negative stereotype for black people in America, which is demonstrably untrue going by Fifa.
 

VERSAT1L

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
66
Montréal
User Banned (Permanent): Dismissing Racism; Account in Junior Phase
The developper is Canadian (Vancouver), as I am. Sorry but racism is USA's debate, we don't share the same history. Please keep your problems home, we've got enough issues to take care of on our side of the border.
 

Baccus

Member
Dec 4, 2018
2,205
The only way people know about the watermelon stereotype Is in relation with the US.