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Deleted member 18400

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,585
Everyone involved or in a position of power with this needs to be shit canned and the company needs to move in a better direction.

People calling for the cancellation of the game and the closing of Quantic are being ridiculous. Not to mention boycotting Detroit.

You want to destroy the collective work of hundreds of people because their bosses were assholes? You want to destroy jobs for hundreds of game developers who already work in an industry that is seeing job cuts?

Yeah, that will show the assholes at the top who did this. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water people.
 

SausagePiano

Permanently banned for usage of an alt-account.
Banned
Jan 18, 2018
108
Everyone involved or in a position of power with this needs to be shit canned and the company needs to move in a better direction.

People calling for the cancellation of the game and the closing of Quantic are being ridiculous. Not to mention boycotting Detroit.

You want to destroy the collective work of hundreds of people because their bosses were assholes? You want to destroy jobs for hundreds of game developers who already work in an industry that is seeing job cuts?

Yeah, that will show the assholes at the top who did this. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water people.

The game will not be cancelled.
Only a small fraction, probably less than 5% of everyone planning to get this game, knows about this scandal. Most people who buys games dont read about them on the internet.

Game has cost 30 mil bones to develop and if they just release it, it will still sell like hot cakes. It is a day one for me.

This said, I hope the pricks behind the insults etc will get punished in some way for it.
 
OP
OP
Maxime

Maxime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,986
The (recently formed) French union of workers of the video game industry (Syndicat des Travailleurs et Travailleuses du Jeu Vidéo "STJV") gave an official statement today. They also affirm that some QD employees who talked to the journalists consulted them for advices.

About the recent scandal at Quantic Dream

After seeing some of the reactions that this case has provoked, it seems necessary for us to intervene and state our point of view as a union of workers.

The STJV was solicited by some of the people who gave interviews. We provided them with advices and support and remained discreet about the conflits they had with their employer. As a result, we have been aware of many of these elements for quite some time. Working ourselves in the industry, and knowing the relative respect of the labor code in it, it immediately seemed very clear to us that these accusations should be taken seriously.

The questions of sexism have been widely treated, we will simply add that in an environment where the proportion of women is estimated at 17%, no lightness of treatment is acceptable.

We think it is important to remember that in terms of employee protection, the employer has an obligation of result. In other words, its obligation is not to try to protect employees from physical or mental risks, but to do so.

In addition, we deplore the way in which some of the employees were treated in the light of these testimonies. The way it describes the crunch, the methods of dismissal and the pressure on the employees is worrying.

Quantic Dream say that all charges against them are unfounded. On our side, we are able to estimate how difficult it is to testify about our difficulties. Those who do so do not find themselves in this situation with pleasure. The threats of blacklisting and career sabotage are indeed common, when we do not internalize them, without even having to be pronounced. Therefore we believe that these testimonials deserve serious attention.

Some studios are more virtuous than others, we know, but it is clear that a lot of us have to complain about our working conditions.

In our industry, we are often seen as a variable of adjustment under the excuse of our passion. The almost systematic practice of crunch is one of the most obvious aspects, but it is not the only one. Sexual harassment, discounted wages, being marginalized or even moral harassment for the protesters are all symptoms that, if they may not be generalized, are at least recurrent.

For the moment, we do not have precise numbers to go forward, but we are working on it (see our survey: https://framaforms.org/enquete-stjv-novembre-2017-1508581061). We can simply say that these problems exist. The end of the omerta [code of silence] in effect in our industry is the sine qua non condition for this problem to be addressed and resolved.

One thing is certain: it is not by brute-force crushing those who speak, nor burying our head in the sand, ignoring the problems, that the situation can improve overall.

For our part, it is also our passion for this profession that guides us in the process of defending the workers of our industry, because we are convinced that poor manufacturing conditions ultimately bring video games of a lower quality.

A video game studio, a company, and Quantic Dream is no exception to that, is not a fuzzy and homogeneous entity, but a human collective effort, made of people working together. This is not an awesome leader eclipsing little hands. Refusing to listen to the words of the workers, even to discredit them, is an attack to the studio and an attack to its productions.

If we want to improve the quality of the games we make, we will have to be able to look at the problems in the face when they come up. This "we" is all the actors in the field, from studios to players, from publishers to journalists.
 
Last edited:

DocSeuss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,784
Suggesting suing a studio they've worked with for years and absolutely know about? Geez. You guys need to realize Sony's complicit in this.

They won´t and QD will keep putting out great games that i´ll love to play and buy the most expensive editions for those, as for the studio problems, hopefully they get fixed but that is none of my business. i´ll just keep enjoying their games.

Good to know you like supporting awful workplace environments because you care more about corporations than people, I guess?
 

badcrumble

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,732
Pretty cool, to be honest, that I can now tell myself I'm boycotting David Cage games for ethical reasons and not just not buying them because they're abysmally written.

For real, though, this stuff sounds really beyond the pale. I'm glad it's come out and shame on people who are waving it off as nothing.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,212
I had missed the CanardPC article, that's pretty damning.

All the useful idiots inside and outside the company downplaying the harassment are enablers that allow that kind of unacceptable behavior to fester. Bonus points to Julien Chieze for going out of his way to do so. If he had one, he'd have broken his spine carrying all that water for QD.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,212
The head of Ankama calls those investigations 'the new Inquisition'




That's always such a terrible way to react. I swear, someday Fillon's crisis management and PR will be taught in business schools, and people like this guy will stop answering like that.
I mean, if they're comfortable with working conditions and wages at Ankama, they should feel free to be more transparent and communicate on wages at their company.
 
OP
OP
Maxime

Maxime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,986
Yeah, given the stories about Ankama and more specifically Sir Roux, he should really keep it low.
 
Oct 27, 2017
13,464
Canard PC co-founder Ivan Gaudé tweeted:

"For the past month we've been having 2 kinds of feedback:

From a few managers: "clickbait, ungrateful, frustrated (people), witch hunt, false testimonies"...
From 120+ employees: "Thank you, what you do is important, here's my experience".

Needless to say, we're not losing any sleep over this."

 

Deleted member 11934

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,045
OP
OP
Maxime

Maxime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,986
Canard PC's co-founder Ivan 'Le Fou' Gaudé wrote a small piece regarding the QD investigation. Still behind a paywall, though the main lines are:

- At first, their goal was to draw a global picture of the French video game industry, more specifically working conditions. It wasn't targeting any company, but the name Quantic Dream was too recurring to not have a specific interest about what's going on there.
- They also soon realized that Le Monde was also investigating. So, instead of "walking on each other feet" and turning it into a "race", they joined forces.
- One key date was the 22nd of December of 2017, day where a hearing at the labor relations board (five former QD employees vs. the company) was happening. Also, Canard PC needed to wrap things up before the 5th of January, day they had to send their newspaper to the printer.
- The 26th of December, they (Canard PC, Mediapart & Le Monde) sent their joined questions list to Quantic Dream's board so QD could be aware about the investigation, the data collected but also what the accusations the outlets had towards QD.
- Meeting the 4th of January with QD's board (David Cage & Guillaume de Fondaumière) that Ivan Gaudé qualifies as "tense".
- Following that meeting, several emails form QD qualified as "extremely virulent", accusing the journalists of defamation, insults and harassment above some other things. Few days after, a letter from a law firm threatening them on behalf of QD (at that point, nothing was published yet).
- Mediapart & Canard PC gathered 20 testimonies from former but also current employees (including some that are happy there or left but without hard feelings). IIRC, Le Monde has around 15 testimonies (maybe some in common of course).
- They refused to give names of these employees but they know them all, verified all of them. They just don't want to destroy their careers, given how small the industry in France is.


Canard PC co-founder Ivan Gaudé tweeted:

"For the past month we've been having 2 kinds of feedback:

From a few managers: "clickbait, ungrateful, frustrated (people), witch hunt, false testimonies"...
From 120+ employees: "Thank you, what you do is important, here's my experience".

Needless to say, we're not losing any sleep over this."



Worth pointing the tweet from Mélanie "Melibulle" Christin, co-founder of Atelier 801:



[Some of us managers would want to thank journalists for their work but it is complicated on several layers], this is a small world, rejoicing publicly about accusations aimed at a "colleague" can be badly misinterpreted, even if you endorse it because it aims to improve working conditions.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
Canard PC's co-founder Ivan 'Le Fou' Gaudé wrote a small piece regarding the QD investigation. Still behind a paywall, though the main lines are:

- At first, their goal was to draw a global picture of the French video game industry, more specifically working conditions. It wasn't targeting any company, but the name Quantic Dream was too recurring to not have a specific interest about what's going on there.
- They also soon realized that Le Monde was also investigating. So, instead of "walking on each other feet" and turning it into a "race", they joined forces.
- One key date was the 22nd of December of 2017, day where a hearing at the labor relations board (five former QD employees vs. the company) was happening. Also, Canard PC needed to wrap things up before the 5th of January, day they had to send their newspaper to the printer.
- The 26th of December, they (Canard PC, Mediapart & Le Monde) sent their joined questions list to Quantic Dream's board so QD could be aware about the investigation, the data collected but also what the accusations the outlets had towards QD.
- Meeting the 4th of January with QD's board (David Cage & Guillaume de Fondaumière) that Ivan Gaudé qualifies as "tense".
- Following that meeting, several emails form QD qualified as "extremely virulent", accusing the journalists of defamation, insults and harassment above some other things. Few days after, a letter from a law firm threatening them on behalf of QD (at that point, nothing was published yet).
- Mediapart & Canard PC gathered 20 testimonies from former but also current employees (including some that are happy there or left but without hard feelings). IIRC, Le Monde has around 15 testimonies (maybe some in common of course).
- They refused to give names of these employees but they know them all, verified all of them. They just don't want to destroy their careers, given how small the industry in France is.

Thanks for the summary!
And yeah, as someone in this industry, it is really small, and not just in a single country. Having rumors/issues said about you can really damage your career at an international level.
 
Oct 27, 2017
13,464
Canard PC's co-founder Ivan 'Le Fou' Gaudé wrote a small piece regarding the QD investigation. Still behind a paywall, though the main lines are:

- At first, their goal was to draw a global picture of the French video game industry, more specifically working conditions. It wasn't targeting any company, but the name Quantic Dream was too recurring to not have a specific interest about what's going on there.
- They also soon realized that Le Monde was also investigating. So, instead of "walking on each other feet" and turning it into a "race", they joined forces.
- One key date was the 22nd of December of 2017, day where a hearing at the labor relations board (five former QD employees vs. the company) was happening. Also, Canard PC needed to wrap things up before the 5th of January, day they had to send their newspaper to the printer.
- The 26th of December, they (Canard PC, Mediapart & Le Monde) sent their joined questions list to Quantic Dream's board so QD could be aware about the investigation, the data collected but also what the accusations the outlets had towards QD.
- Meeting the 4th of January with QD's board (David Cage & Guillaume de Fondaumière) that Ivan Gaudé qualifies as "tense".
- Following that meeting, several emails form QD qualified as "extremely virulent", accusing the journalists of defamation, insults and harassment above some other things. Few days after, a letter from a law firm threatening them on behalf of QD (at that point, nothing was published yet).
- Mediapart & Canard PC gathered 20 testimonies from former but also current employees (including some that are happy there or left but without hard feelings). IIRC, Le Monde has around 15 testimonies (maybe some in common of course).
- They refused to give names of these employees but they know them all, verified all of them. They just don't want to destroy their careers, given how small the industry in France is.




Worth pointing the tweet from Mélanie "Melibulle" Christin, co-founder of Atelier 801:


What a nasty situation.
 
OP
OP
Maxime

Maxime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,986
Update:



Rough translation (FR -> EN translations regarding the law are hard yo)

@Quantic_Dream just lost a labor court suit against one of the employees at the heart of the photomontage affair from the beginning of the year. The act of breaking the employment contract was requalified as a dismissal without any real and serious cause. The studio can appeal
 
Mar 17, 2018
2,927
Everyone involved or in a position of power with this needs to be shit canned and the company needs to move in a better direction.

People calling for the cancellation of the game and the closing of Quantic are being ridiculous. Not to mention boycotting Detroit.

You want to destroy the collective work of hundreds of people because their bosses were assholes? You want to destroy jobs for hundreds of game developers who already work in an industry that is seeing job cuts?

Yeah, that will show the assholes at the top who did this. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water people.
Really this is true. I mean boycott all you want, it's not going to change anything because truly people in America first and foremost are way too used to this in their own jobs and lives. It's just another slave-driving force of nature here with David Cage. I never liked his games too much. I will try Detroit at some point though. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for how this studio operates in the future too. 15 is a decent amount of employees.
 

Yep

Member
Dec 14, 2017
531
I genuinely don't understand how boycotting a game for clear reasons is impacting negatively employees, in particular employees of non indie development studio, cause employees are already paid for their work, the fact that the game sell a lot have nothing to do with that no?