Yeah, to be honest I think the video has some decent points from the little I've seen of it but if this was a 5 hour long video on a game I enjoyed way more than P5 I couldn't really justify watching it.
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Cvit - Persona 5: Style Over Substance, a 5 hour long P5 analysis video.
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imagine calling someone wrong without listening to a second of their reasoning
You can disagree with a thesis...
And I did watch a piece and im already out of the video, not worth my time.
I'm 25 minutes into it, which is 25 more minutes than other people in this thread.
can't believe people would rather spend lots of time doing something they enjoy rather than spending a still-significant amount of time doing something they don't, smh
Complain that they're wrong without watching is shallow reasoning and overall indefensible. You don't want to watch it, that's fine. Reacting to something you haven't watched is wack
Honestly I'd argue Persona 5 has too much substance and the style can't carry it. Of course it's all opinions. Many here in this thread love it and don't think the game is enough. Where as I was tired of the game 40 hours in. The episodic nature definitely kills it for me. The actual stories just aren't as interesting as the first one and there's not enough real plot going on to encourage me to keep playing it. I managed to beat it and really have very little interest in replaying it.
I'll check out a bit of this video, but the thing is, I find it extremely hard to believe that a video essay like this would warrant 5 hours. I just watched one of the best video essays for a game I've seen, and that was 31 minutes long.
Who wouldn't want to play more of a game they love rather than sit and watch someone dissect that game for 5 hours of their life? What could I possibly get out of that that would enrich my life? That's like 6 or 7 episodes of The Next Generation that I could be catching up on instead.
Nah, it's just the vocal minority. The truth is the game was nominated for GOTY and has a MC score of 93.
You can disagree with a thesis while not wanting to devote 5 hours of your day to have something you like be torn apart (ultimately subjectively from what I have seen). At least people arent pretending they took the time to watch it
oh I appreciate the craft behind it, the cinematography is just fantastic. Its just the characters themselves arent as engaging as i would like to. I stopped at the middle
Yeah, but given the reaction to each of these games together with the constant milking and increased bloat (e.g. Persona 4 Golden and the upcoming Persona 5 Royal), I wouldn't expect it to happen anytime soon.
I disagree with the premise. There is style and substance in equal measure and I really enjoyed the game. Don't think I'll be dedicating 5 hours of my time to this.
Yes I do tend to choose to do something I'd enjoy over something I wouldn't.
I'm not gonna watch it but I agree with the premise. The presentation is amazing, and surface-level it's a very well made game. The gameplay is actually pretty decent too, but it drags on with how long the game itself is.
The writing, story and characters though leave a lot to desire. It starts off strong but after the first act or so, it's pretty bad. Everything's so clear cut, there's no real ambiguity in who's right and who's wrong, the story never really does anything with its premise. I'm playing FE3H recently and it's surprising because I feel like even the non plot important students in that game are more fleshed out than most of the P5 cast.
it gave us Hifumi tho so maybe it aint that bad
The writing, story and characters though leave a lot to desire. It starts off strong but after the first act or so, it's pretty bad. Everything's so clear cut, there's no real ambiguity in who's right and who's wrong, the story never really does anything with its premise. I'm playing FE3H recently and it's surprising because I feel like even the non plot important students in that game are more fleshed out than most of the P5 cast.
it gave us Hifumi tho so maybe it aint that bad
I mean if people enjoy doing stuff so much why are people commenting in a thread that is explicitly negative about P5 going by the thread title?
I wish P5 kept up its strong start. The ending was predictable but the actual climax was kinda hype no matter how much you could see it coming.
Like P5 attempts to be hard hitting with actual real problems. Then it remembers it needs to be an anime game. Royal looks like it is slapping more of the anime into the anime game.
Kamoshida was such a strong villain. Like really really good. Then we go into a plagiarist while not as strong as abusive sports coach, it starts to get a bit comical but still fairly real. Then we get generic gangster trash. A CEO? Why was the CEO lame. Because we had to stop and have pointless Morgana feels worthless drama to detract from that.
I wish P5 kept up its strong start. The ending was predictable but the actual climax was kinda hype no matter how much you could see it coming.
Like P5 attempts to be hard hitting with actual real problems. Then it remembers it needs to be an anime game. Royal looks like it is slapping more of the anime into the anime game.
A lot of this video seems to just be recap (and nitpicking) of the game tbh
Really? I haven't played p5 but that's massively disappointing
Because even if you're a fan of something you can still be open to reading or watching criticism of it.
More often than not though that criticism is something I can read or watch in a matter of minutes, not something that will take me an entire afternoon.
The problem is criticizing a video you didn't watch, not the fact you didn't watch it.
I just meant in terms of writing.
Royals is coming out next year and I'm hoping it'll address at least some of the problems 5 did.
Basically. It's a game that's unwilling to cash the check it wrote. It tries for some very ambitious social critique of society and even manages to do it decently at first with Kamoshida, but then it undermines that for the sake of male otaku wish fulfillment and anime hijinks because that's what's expected from it.
Just gonna say this is obviously purposeful. Persona 5 is a game about being able to do something about horrible people who are generally untouchable in real life because of societal reasons. It's not intended to be a grey story about 'But maybe these awful people aren't actually that awful.' A story isn't necessarily bad for taking a clear side on an issue and is arguably stronger for it.
Lol yeah, people WOULD like 20 more hours of a game they like rather than watch a 5 hour analysis video
I don't need to listen to the video to know I disagree by the premise and especially with the style over substance comment.
I have a number of problems with the game, but not enough to watch a 5 hour video about them. Really like the game overall.
Anyway, I think the biggest problem is the game's pacing conflicts heavily with the story. The game tells the story within Palaces as if you are in there multiple times over the course of the three-ish weeks you are given, but to get the most out of your time, you'll want to 2-day all of the palaces, which leaves you waiting a good 3ish hours to continue the story, and sometimes even Mementos gameplay (there isn't enough Mementos requests imo)!
Anyway, I'd personally cut down the length of palaces by about a third to keep them from wearing on too long, add 2-3 new ones (probably between the 2nd and 3rd/4th and 5th ones), and shorten the time for each palace to ~10 days. I'd also make it so the treasure has to be stolen on the last day; maybe the calling card only works when tensions are at their highest idk they could come up with a half-good reasoning. It'd keep the story flowing smoothly and keep palaces from becoming too much of a slog, I'd think.
Anyway, I think the biggest problem is the game's pacing conflicts heavily with the story. The game tells the story within Palaces as if you are in there multiple times over the course of the three-ish weeks you are given, but to get the most out of your time, you'll want to 2-day all of the palaces, which leaves you waiting a good 3ish hours to continue the story, and sometimes even Mementos gameplay (there isn't enough Mementos requests imo)!
The constant "did we actually do it? i guess we have to wait and see." texts get annoying, and there's no real story justification for the gap. You're telling me Futaba was actually asleep for 3 weeks? What bs. It also doesn't make sense when Shadow Okumura is killed, but it takes three weeks for the real Okumura to die. And now I'm worried I'll lose out on time for trying to two-day Sae's palace bc I saw the initial cutscene!
Anyway, I'd personally cut down the length of palaces by about a third to keep them from wearing on too long, add 2-3 new ones (probably between the 2nd and 3rd/4th and 5th ones), and shorten the time for each palace to ~10 days. I'd also make it so the treasure has to be stolen on the last day; maybe the calling card only works when tensions are at their highest idk they could come up with a half-good reasoning. It'd keep the story flowing smoothly and keep palaces from becoming too much of a slog, I'd think.
I agree with you that a lack of ambiguity isn't necessarily a problem in and of itself. That being said, I feel like Persona 5 compromises its message in multiple ways, and I feel like exploring the ramifications and potential downsides of what the Phantom Thieves were doing would have made for a much stronger overall story.
I was talking about mementos, the boring ass main villain and how little the game evolves the gameplay, when now was the perfect chance for it.
It's 31 minutes long for what is essentially a 4 hour game (if that).
This is 5 hours long for what is essentially a 100 hour game.
It'd be like if someone did a scene for scene breakdown for all of Game of Thrones, but then when the video was multiple hours long, people ridiculed and said it was too long.
The video would be easier to swallow if the video was broken down unto a multi-part series, but other than that, I think the time is warranted, if you take a look at what all is covered via the time stamps.
I agree with this. If people don't want to watch the video due to it's main premise and length, then that is perfectly reasonable. Life's too short to fill it with stuff you don't want to hear.
I think most of the ridicule being thrown is at people who are calling it a bad video or overly bloated for no reason, when the video starts off with a good explanation as to why it's long and as much as I've watched so far, actually has good points to make.
Like if the video isn't to your taste, you disagree with the premise, or don't have enough time to watch, then just state that. Don't just blindly shit on the video due to its length or because you don't agree with the premise. You can say you don't like or are interested in something without saying it sucks. Note, my response isn't targeted towards you per say, just to this thread as a whole.
Man, I like P5 but if they don't mention that garbage gay panic shit at all in that 5 hour runtime, Imma say it's not worth it.
5 hours. Who's really going to waste 5 hours of your life watching this? Condense your points and make it 30 minutes at most.
Hmm, maybe I could phrase it better, but on the whole I disagree. The game does try to tackle societal problems, like sexual abuse, suicide, familial ties, social media, etc, but it just ends up being very simple. I understand what you mean, there is a definite focus on being a force for good, but my issue is that you can't create an engaging story/world like that.
The game never asks for any thinking beyond the surface level of 'good vs. bad', and thus you get a game which drags. It would have been okay for the game to be a cheesy anime inspired good-feel game, but at the same time, for that to work you can't introduce complex issues and not expect the player to want to solve them, or at least tackle them in a meaningful way. For example the game's very first act introduces sexual exploitation of a minor, and actually handles it pretty decently, but the rest of the game acts like that never happened, and sexualises said character itself, even in the ending CG. You can't have your cake and eat it.
I'm not going to watch something I'll disagree with because I love the game. The only major complaint since Persona 4 is the character development is on the optional side than being the game's narrative like in Persona 3. It's something I want to see comeback in Persona 6.
Then why not just skip the optional stuff? Nobody is asking you to do everything.
Then why not just skip the optional stuff? Nobody is asking you to do everything.
The op put time codes in his post. Watch what sections you're interested in
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