1. Sanctuary

    Sanctuary
    Member

    LOL. From one of the most atmospheric series of last gen:

    You know that this was originally planned as System Shock 3 right?
     
  2. Well. All out would be a top of the line PC lol
     
  3. spad3

    spad3
    Member

    Your character can be admired in cutscenes and whenever you upgrade. You will absolutely not miss out on seeing your character. The experience is meant to be personal so the FPP adds to the immersion
     
  4. DarkFlame92

    DarkFlame92
    Member

    Because the art style is perfect is another reason they made a good choice with first person view. You might sacrifice "seeing" yourself,but you get to see every other single think in the world with a closer look and a more immersive approach. I think it's a perfectly valid tradeoff.
     
  5. Disgraced

    Disgraced
    Member

    I need an image of my spider-dog buddy.
     
  6. SolidChamp

    SolidChamp
    Member

    This game is insanely ambitious.

    I highly doubt this is coming out this gen.
     
  7. LabRat

    LabRat
    Member

    i just found out from max scovilles twitter that not only will the game be mostly first person, but conversations and dialogues will also be "mostly" in first person

    this worries me more than anything else, the best thing about the Witcher 3 was the story, the characters and how you interacted with them. are emotional moments like this one

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICQDXqvcSfI

    even possible if you don't see the emotions on V's face? certainly this scene from the witcher 3 wouldn't be the same if it was just from a first person perspective. what about the romance scenes, aren't they going to feel weird from a fp view? like i said story and characters are so important to cdpr games, i'm not entirely sure why they also went this route for the dialogues. i don't want the story to be one note and always balls to the wall extreme and over the top. i want there to be sad moments, funny moments and everything in between. they chose the route of giving us V as a character with a backstory, so to me having fp conversations feels a little schizophrenic because if cdpr wants us to feel a connection to V at least in my opinion it would be better if we get to see what he/she feels like at least during conversations and cutscenes.
     
  8. Maligna

    Maligna
    Member



    Damn... This is so heartbreaking. Madqueen has been living and breathing this game for years and now she finds out she may not be able to play it because of motion sickness issues due to it being first person only.

    I feel so bad. You can tell she cut the camera right before she burst into tears. :(
     
  9. Forsaken82

    Forsaken82
    Member

    and there's a reason why it's dead space and not system shock. Outside of general Sci-Fi Aesthetics and Atmosphere, it has nothing in common with System Shock. And if you are wondering what my point is... it's quite simple. Game designs change.

    Metroid Prime and Halo used to be Third Person too...
     
  10. Blade30

    Blade30
    Member

    Speaking of verticality was there any talks or info about climbing? I know of the armblades from the impression demo where you climb on a wall and thrust into it to keep hold but can you actually climb stuff as in choosing a path/getting a different angle?
     
  11. Sanctuary

    Sanctuary
    Member

    So it wasn't System Shock, but was comparable to System Shock's atmosphere, which is what I said in the first place, yet my post needed correcting from you? The argument was that System Shock "had to have" first-person for the atmosphere, when it actually didn't. People are just so used to playing it that way, that they can't imagine it in third. When it was initially released, it probably would have looked like shit in third, but we aren't in that decade anymore.
     
  12. i-Lo

    i-Lo
    Member

    Has there been any word on whether the game will go the route of Fallout/ES or Deus Ex HR/MD when it comes to engaging in dialogue?

    With respect (and setting aside the choice made by CDPR), if you're insinuating that sense of atmosphere is found lacking in third person view then you're patently wrong. The SoulsBorne series is known for their atmosphere as well as other broader western RPGs such as Mass Effect also excel in this area (esp. ME1 and some of ME2's DLCs) and if Bioshock's gameplay mechanics were designed around the TPP then it would have worked too.
     
  13. N7_Angel

    N7_Angel
    Member

    Damn wow... i hope CDPR will take notice of things like this.
     
  14. eyeball_kid

    eyeball_kid
    Member

    Geralt was the lead actor in a play called The Witcher. You watched that play and watched him, so it made sense for that to be third person, among other mechanics-based reasons.

    V is your character. You design their backstory, their look, who they are. Do you normally want to see how you react when you're in a conversation with someone? No. You're invested in the conversation. And that's the goal with first person here. To really inhabit the character through their eyes and the choices you make. This is a proper old school RPG. The writing and the emotional beats won't change because of perspective.

    Also, major cutscenes and likely the romance stuff will be third person. Don't worry about it.
     
  15. Forsaken82

    Forsaken82
    Member

    I misinterpreted your argument for being Dead Space is System Shock in third person based on the quote. My bad. Didn't realize you were only referring to atmosphere.
     
  16. icyflamez96

    icyflamez96
    Member

    Yeah they'll prolly add a mode
     
  17. Maligna

    Maligna
    Member

    Do it for the Madqueen, CDPR!
     
  18. spad3

    spad3
    Member

    There hasn't been any mention of that yet, but with confirmation that your character will be visible during cutscenes, it wouldn't be a surprise if they went DE:HR/MD with the dialogue instead of Fallout. It might vary based on situation though. Like key story moments it'll be like DE, but roaming around doing side missions it'll be closer to Fallout/ES. This is just speculation though. We'll have to wait and see.
     
  19. Tovarisc

    Tovarisc
    Member

    I highly doubt we are getting free climb system like AC's have.
     
  20. i-Lo

    i-Lo
    Member

    Actually, I just found the answer right here (time stamped):

    https://youtu.be/pi7GF6-zZZc?t=11m53s
     
  21. Artdayne

    Artdayne
    Member

    What is there to take notice of? It's sad that she may not be able to play it though she did say that she's been okay playing some first person shooters in the past, I think she said Deus Ex was okay but Doom was more difficult. In any event, CDPR needs to stay true to their vision. Adding a functional third person mode on top of the first person mode is a lot more work then some people think, it's just not feasible to accommodate for every person. There are also legitimate reasons for being in first person, in terms of atmosphere, cramped streets which stifle third person perspective, cybernetics will have a bigger effect because they impact your HUD in a more natural way. This is me who has stated on multiple occasions here that I really do not like first person perspective for anything other than multiplayer shooters but all things considered I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. It's terrible that she may not be able to play but CDPR needs to stick to their vision of the game.
     
  22. I think theres an error in communication when discussing atmosphere. What people are referring is that you're more connected and it feels more personal in first person than third, not that third person doesnt have these things. In your example the atmosphere is great, tense, but it would've been more terrifying in first person but maybe thats just taste. I never get scared in third person games since you brought up Dead Space but I was sweating my ass off in Amnesia or Alien Isolation. I dont think the latter games in third person would've been such great experiences to me, if they were in third person, not as much as in first person anyway.
     
  23. BoukObelisk

    BoukObelisk
    Member

    [​IMG]

    this is such a bad ass outfit.
     
  24. Disgraced

    Disgraced
    Member

    Have you played Deus Ex: Human Revolution? The first-person negotiations using the Social Enhancement augmentation are considered one of the best aspects of the game.

     
  25. Flipyap

    Flipyap
    Member

    I doubt that changed since last July. People always took the first part of Pondsmith's vague comment far too literally, skipping over the part that implied that it wouldn't be the same role system.
     
  26. LabRat

    LabRat
    Member

    i know what you are trying to say but it still feels schizophrenic to me. if V is supposed to be me, why did they make him/her voiced? why did they choose the mass effect style of dialogue options where you pick a line and V gives his take on the dialogue option that you choose instead of reading the exact line? it feels like cdpr wanted to make the game a true mix between fp/tp camera but it became too ambitious and crazy so they cut one camera pov but there are still features and choices in the design of the game that make more sense for a rpg with a third person camera.
     
  27. BoukObelisk

    BoukObelisk
    Member

    The diegetic excuse doesn't make sense when you consider the fact that they allow you to play in thirdperson when driving a vehicle.

    The reason why there's no third person perspective is because of project scope. CD Projekt RED are all about extravagance and appeasing its fanbase, the fact that they won't have thirdperson tells me that they simply scaled back on their original vision to avoid all the extra work that a thirdperson camera entails.

    Exactly. The fact that they allow you to have third person when driving should indicate that this is a question of project scope and workload, and not because of diegetic reasons.
     
  28. spad3

    spad3
    Member

    First Person dialogue sure, but it could be in the same vein as DE where certain sequences you get in first person some in third.
     
  29. Fredrik

    Fredrik
    Member

    FPS? Why??
    Well, bummer, there goes my interest. Usually I can't even play first person games without wanting to puke from motion sickness. I've managed to play Skyrim, because it's so slow, I can never sprint though. I've played through Halo 4 too without puking, not sure why that worked tbh but in general the rule for me is to stay far far away from first person games. Sometimes it works if they run super smoothly but it's honestly a lottery so it's easier to just pretend they don't exist. Which I really didnt want to do with Cyberpunk. :(
     
  30. Disgraced

    Disgraced
    Member

    If they're really all about appeasing their fanbase they'd have appeased you too. Perhaps they will. But that is ridiculous conjecture.
     
  31. Sanctuary

    Sanctuary
    Member

    First-person can be more immersive, which seems to be what most are using as its main selling point for RPGs, but I have never found that to be worth it when the combat suffers for it (at least not after two decades of that), and I've yet to play a single first-person RPG that didn't have awful combat. Not that TW3 had stellar combat either, but I was assuming CRPR could at least do "shooting" combat a little better than they did with melee.

    I also know that a lot of people don't seem to care at all about combat when playing an RPG, but when a game is intented to be an ARPG, it needs to actually do both well, not sacrifice one aspect for the other. Skyrim was one of the most immersive RPGs I've played aside from Morrowind, and I enjoyed running around the above ground areas and running through the fields, forests and towns, but when it came to combat, after about ten hours I just wanted to fall asleep. And Bethesda had since Morrowind to actually improve the combat, but practically took baby steps in that regard.

    The perspective itself isn't what actually bothers me, it's what I said in an earlier post: the combat has historically sucked in these kinds of games in first-person, or at best, it's just like every other run of the mill first-person shooter circa HL2. Is it impossible to think that developers could be doing a lot more inventive things with combat in first-person? Not at all, but they simply haven't been.
     
  32. Amiablepercy

    Amiablepercy
    Member

    I honestly feel bad for her but you act like it is flipping a switch.

    Agreed. When did we get to a point where fans dictated to developers how to make their games? Her situation sucks, of course, but I'm kind of vexed by this. Things change in development cycles and we all have to accommodate that change if we decide to partake in a given experience. There are tons of VR experiences (Stormland for instance) I'd love to try but that motion sickness is too much for me. It is disappointing but I'm not going to act like the developer should make decisions just based on my situation.
     
  33. His Majesty

    His Majesty
    Member

    PCWorld: Straight up: Cyberpunk 2077 is the most impressive game demo I’ve ever seen.
    VG247: We sat down at E3 to witness 50 minutes of stunning gameplay. Jaws dropped at the ultraviolence. Eyeballs sprang out on stalks. Ears burned at the spicy language. And afterwards we jabbered out mouths off in excitement at what we’d just witness. Holy. Guacamole. The wait has been justified. The hype tame in comparison to reality. Cyberpunk 2077 is going to be a game changer.
    GameInformer: Cyberpunk 2077 is like Rockstar levels of open-world craziness. Beautiful, detailed, choice everywhere. Gunplay is wicked. Can run on walls, plant into them with blades, drop onto foes, slice their heads off. Slow time, use mods to control bots. Wow. Wow. Wow.
    Eurogamer: Cyberpunk 2077 is legit. I can’t even imagine this being current gen. Like holy shit. It’s like Deus Ex + Crysis + Witcher at a scale and level of detail that I’ve never seen. It’s the kind of game I’ve dreamt of for ages. That was one hell of an hour.

    It's almost like this game may be pretty decent after all. Huh.
     
  34. Chris McQueen

    Chris McQueen
    Member

    The first-person perspective has lowered my hype, but I need to see gameplay.
     
  35. Vault

    Vault
    Member

    Deus ex was First person and that's the gold standard,

    3rd is so limiting to gameplay
     
  36. DarkFlame92

    DarkFlame92
    Member

    But it's a first person game. How can it be decent,huh? First person=Call of Duty,we all know that
     
  37. spad3

    spad3
    Member

    Is everyone done crying about the first person perspective now? CDPR made the game that way because it fit their vision for the game. You don't have to play it if it doesn't fit your arbitrary expectation.

    Anyways.

    Cyberpunk 2077 |OT| The Perspective War
     
  38. Shake Appeal

    Shake Appeal
    Member

    As someone who loves first-person games, I feel like I mistakenly took crazy pills before reading this thread.

    This has nothing to do with "project scope." It's an aesthetic and mechanical choice that makes perfect sense—to most people—for the type of game that this is. I also believe that it was widely predicted for more than a year now, so the outrage seems even weirder to me.

    The only strong argument I've read is that some people literally experience physical discomfort by playing first-person game, which is deeply unfortunate. I feel bad for them. But suggesting that CDPR "scaled back" on their "original vision" by not having a third-person camera seems wildly out of touch with what kind of game this is, the strong legacy of first-person WRPGs, and the kinds of aesthetic and mechanical choices that developers make in different genres for different reasons. I'm struggling to get my head around it.
     
  39. i-Lo

    i-Lo
    Member

    It is definitely a possible especially when he talks about cutscenes which could theoretically tie into dialog choice segments. That said, the tone from the video sounds like they want to leverage every bit of their newly developed first person dialog system.
     
  40. Disgraced

    Disgraced
    Member

    Deus Ex is pretty good, and the gameplay of The Witcher series only got better with each installment so I think that curve could continue.
     
  41. LabRat

    LabRat
    Member

    btw even deus ex goes into third person during most dialogues scenes. i think there is a reason why most narrative driven rpgs have a third person view during conversations between your character and npcs. i'm not an expert but seeing your characters expression must surely be one of them so i really hope cyberpunk 2077's story and the characters don't suffer. it's CDPR's biggest strenght after all. the only game that stays in first person during conversations that i can think of is skyrim and skyrim's story and characters made me feel absolutly nothing.
     
  42. NoKisum

    NoKisum
    Member

    Just seems kinda pointless to have both a "deep character creator" and have it only in First Person.

    Plus, I've played various First Person games. They're always disorientating and hard for me to control.
     
  43. Eros

    Eros
    Member

    No it hasn't.
     
  44. DarkFlame92

    DarkFlame92
    Member

    Story had historically been taking a backseat to open world games,then we got the Witcher 3. So please,just wait until we have something concrete. Seriously now. Stop being so narrowminded everyone. It would be the easiest thing for them to make a 3rd person game ala Witcher 3 in a sci fi setting,but there was a reason they went with the first person choice instead of third person.And there's a reason Mike Pondsmith agreed to such a decision too. So please,this camera "controversy" just blows my mind
     
  45. Tovarisc

    Tovarisc
    Member

    Jason saw gameplay demo, some impressions.

    https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1006959455399890944

    https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1006960809728020481

    https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1006960313697103873

    Edit:;

    https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1006961619262324736
     
  46. Vault

    Vault
    Member

    There are cutscenes with your character in the demo they showed the press
     
  47. Dragoon

    Dragoon
    Member

    fuck it.. i'm running with red hair though most likely a dude.. that looks AMAZING <3
     
  48. Sanctuary

    Sanctuary
    Member

    I loved the original Deus Ex when it came out. It was also 2000. I've also replayed it numerous times since release, but I've had my fill of dealing with the aspects that haven't aged well at all. I also previously mentioned that I think both of the modern revisions have pretty good combat, and I don't really have a problem at all with the way it was handled. But they are not strictly first-person games either. They are first/third hybrids. I also disagree with the combat improving in TW3. It was bad at a fundamental level, and all the expansions did was add another layer of flash on top of the crummy base.
     
  49. LabRat

    LabRat
    Member

    yeah but again most cutscenes and dialogue seem to be in first person. which makes it even more weird to me why they make such a big deal out of customization. you are only seeing your V in "some" cutscenes and in the options menu.
     
  50. Heid

    Heid
    Member

    Its in the trailer.