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Cyberpunk 2077 E3 2018
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Thanks for people trying to put it into another perspective, but third person camera is a must in a RPG for me. It really takes me out of the game world to be constricted to FP view as I no longer feel like I'm playing a character in a story, but rather just a floating camera with a gun in front of her/him. Thirdperson gives you a sense of space, of belonging, of situatedness. You are a character who's actually embedded into this world and not just a screen or camera onto a world.
Vampire bloodlines, fallout new Vegas, Skyrim, etc. I all played in third person throughout. It made a huge difference to seeMeanwhile Deus Ex never gave me immersion or relating to the character I was playing.
CD Projekt red are known for thirdperson RPGs so it should be understandable why people are disappointed by this news. Perspective matters a lot as I've tried explaining above
Vampire bloodlines, fallout new Vegas, Skyrim, etc. I all played in third person throughout. It made a huge difference to seeMeanwhile Deus Ex never gave me immersion or relating to the character I was playing.
CD Projekt red are known for thirdperson RPGs so it should be understandable why people are disappointed by this news. Perspective matters a lot as I've tried explaining above
First person only ? I'm out.
What's the point in creating my character with tattoos and stuff if I'm never going to see them outside cutscenes. When am I ever going to see my cool character walking through a cyberpunk city ? We already have Deus Ex in first person. I wish we could at least have exploration in 3rd person, with a toggle like in Elder Scrolls games. Man I'm so bummed... I don't like FPS.
Ok, not really out, but SERIOUSLY bummed.
What's the point in creating my character with tattoos and stuff if I'm never going to see them outside cutscenes. When am I ever going to see my cool character walking through a cyberpunk city ? We already have Deus Ex in first person. I wish we could at least have exploration in 3rd person, with a toggle like in Elder Scrolls games. Man I'm so bummed... I don't like FPS.
There will be a photo mode and you'll be able to see your character plenty.
I just really prefer walking around in third person, seeing my character inside the game world, and not just in a photo mode or during dialogue.
I hope the devs reconsider this. I don't mind the view automatically switching to first person as soon as I draw my gun, but a 3rd person view during exploration is really important for me (and a lot of people apparently, seeing the reactions here).
I guess Deus Ex 1 is no longer cyberpunk because it had first person for gameplay and third person for cutscenes with choices.
Oh wait.
Oh wait.
Well i hope they stick to their guns and maybe add something later.
I hope they dont change their game due to "fans" negative thoughts on behind closed door game play impressions (That are all positive)
The way they've reacted to the massive disappointment by tons of fans tells me that they're sticking to it and doubling down. I assume it's due to the way they've built the engine or that they just want to cut back on extra costs from animation, assets, QA, etc
CdprojektRed would obviously include thirdperson if they could, they're all about pleasing their fans. That they're not doing it this time tells me that we probably won't see it.
At least not right away. But I doubt they'll ignore that people want it. CDPR is pretty cool.
I really do hope they stick to their artistic vision for the game. Putting you in the shoes and letting you see through the eyes of a person in this amazing world. As an artist I can absolutely see how the first person view would play a huge and vital part in the experience that they are tailoring for people to see.
It would be like if Remedy caved and shoed in first person halfway through developing Max Payne. A game that is obviously tailor made for Third person view and a whole lot of it's mechanics work with it. It would be terrible. I just looked up a mod for first person view for that game and it just doesn't even look like the same game. I see the same for the mechanics in Cyberpunk.
It would be like if Remedy caved and shoed in first person halfway through developing Max Payne. A game that is obviously tailor made for Third person view and a whole lot of it's mechanics work with it. It would be terrible. I just looked up a mod for first person view for that game and it just doesn't even look like the same game. I see the same for the mechanics in Cyberpunk.
Because this is the only thread where you can have a normal discusion without the stupid drive-by reactions (we already had that several pages ago, "Lol GTA clone", "Where's muh bladerunner", "cyberpunk =/= sun").
I've read four of the seven authors mentioned - and yes, cyberpunk - without "re-appropriating" the term, means social commentary on a world soley run by corporations.
If CDPR somehow managed to overlook that, and make a game about flashing out your car, and wearing hip LED stacked jacketcolors - while engaging in some of that great "hyperviolence" - while shooting hillbillies in a GTA like setting...
If Cyberpunk (the rpg system) made their own sell out spin on the concept - I wasnt aware of it. And while it serves as an explanation -- it doesnt address the "entirely tonedeath" problem with the trailer to begin with. Coming from what Cyberpunk as a genre was venturing out to do.
Its like taking Star Trek, and making it all about the fun pink dinosaur people in episode 366 (episode nr made up).
Those concepts stand for something, and certainly not CDPRs, funky colors, and ultraviolence - lets shoot at hillbillies approach.
I really hope CDPR completely ignore the complaints about first person and visuals and nail their vision for the game.
I'm not really a fan of the aesthetic but looking at some of the art around the board games and books they have nailed it and have a clear vision for the game.
Plus parkour and vertical exploration in games like Mirrors Edge, Dishonored, Titanfall, To The Top, Sprint Vector, Windlands, Metroid Prime are significantly better than those found in 3rd person games and are far more involving, grounded, giving you a better sense of presence in the area.
Whereas in games like Uncharted, Assassins Creed, Tomb Raider, Jet Set Radio, Prince of Persia and Infamous the parkour and vertical exploration is just fast and you are always in flux of going from point A to B. The area you are in is just a location you are passing through rather than something you are observing and engaging with and the mechanic are something just there rather than something you can properly engage with and master.
I'm not really a fan of the aesthetic but looking at some of the art around the board games and books they have nailed it and have a clear vision for the game.
Plus parkour and vertical exploration in games like Mirrors Edge, Dishonored, Titanfall, To The Top, Sprint Vector, Windlands, Metroid Prime are significantly better than those found in 3rd person games and are far more involving, grounded, giving you a better sense of presence in the area.
Whereas in games like Uncharted, Assassins Creed, Tomb Raider, Jet Set Radio, Prince of Persia and Infamous the parkour and vertical exploration is just fast and you are always in flux of going from point A to B. The area you are in is just a location you are passing through rather than something you are observing and engaging with and the mechanic are something just there rather than something you can properly engage with and master.
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Sounds like a dream game for me. I knew the Cdproject-Cyberpunk setting would be something real special. I can't wait to see gameplay. I prefer TPS unless it comes to games like TES, Vampire Masquerade, etc. First person was abouslutely the right choice for this game, and i'm really exicited to be immersed in this world. It's probably very hard at this point for them, but they should try to implement a TP camera at some point after launch
All the people crying about it being first person really need to get a fucking grip.
The devs are making it first person for a reason and you've seen absolutely fuck all of the game so wait a while before passing your shite judgement
The devs are making it first person for a reason and you've seen absolutely fuck all of the game so wait a while before passing your shite judgement
They already said that this game isn't for everyone. If perspective bothers you, well tough. They're sticking to their guns, and I appreciate that.
Anyway, for those interested, Digital Foundry uploaded their technical analysis video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imZYzSOV27g
Anyway, for those interested, Digital Foundry uploaded their technical analysis video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imZYzSOV27g
Thanks, will give it a watch.
Shit there's really too many Cyberpunk threads currently, hard to keep up with all of them lol.
More than a few previews have said the world absolutely nails the feeling of social divide and sense of economic inbalance, the feeling that you're a disposable nobody in your grimy slice of a massive world that doesn't care about you. That it didn't have the feeling of a power fantasy, that interacting with megacorp execs or in the sights of a Trauma Team makes you feels small, that the augmentations are unsettling body horror and the world felt gritty and grimy
Another interesting tidbit:
".... For whatever reason, CD Projekt hasn't made any video footage available beyond the trailer from the Xbox media briefing and there are barely even any official screenshots. That's probably in part due to the fact that the game doesn't have a release date, but also because it's pretty blatantly being designed as a next gen title. CD Projekt has alluded to the fact before and trying to clarify exactly what formats the game will be released on involved a series of nervous questions between CD Projekt staff, unsure of what exactly they should be saying. Eventually we got them to admit it would be coming out on Xbox One, PlayStation 4, and PC, with a nervous little laugh making it clear that also appearing on next gen consoles was very much the plan (which also gives a hint as to when the game will be released)."
https://metro.co.uk/2018/06/13/cyberpunk-2077-preview-game-next-generation-7627025/
".... For whatever reason, CD Projekt hasn't made any video footage available beyond the trailer from the Xbox media briefing and there are barely even any official screenshots. That's probably in part due to the fact that the game doesn't have a release date, but also because it's pretty blatantly being designed as a next gen title. CD Projekt has alluded to the fact before and trying to clarify exactly what formats the game will be released on involved a series of nervous questions between CD Projekt staff, unsure of what exactly they should be saying. Eventually we got them to admit it would be coming out on Xbox One, PlayStation 4, and PC, with a nervous little laugh making it clear that also appearing on next gen consoles was very much the plan (which also gives a hint as to when the game will be released)."
https://metro.co.uk/2018/06/13/cyberpunk-2077-preview-game-next-generation-7627025/
I know some people want this but I just don't think it would work. The game is heavy on first-person animation a la Crysis, Dishonored 2 and Mirror's Edge. Those games wouldn't feel right in third person. The combat wouldn't work, I feel. It's just not a third person game and it would require an insane amount of work to get right that would be totally different from FP mode. It's like asking for a first person mode in an Uncharted game - it just goes against how the game is designed to be played. I really hope they do not compromise their vision by shoehorning in a third person mode.
The work involved would depend heavily on how they've animated the models and such.
Games like Mirrors edge and crysis both had poor animation quality from third person because they took shortcuts (since you were never intended to see them), you end up with things like this:
meanwhile some games do true first person modeling and they fully animate the character model regardless if you are going to see it or not, among sharing animations with npc's , so things that are shared like walking/running animations or combat moves that npc's can do as well as the player would likely be shared (since the player will see npc's do them you have to animate them expecting them to be seen).
It's much easier to do a full true animation and then add first/third person then it is to do "fake" first person and then add third person to that later on, because if you do it that way you're going to have to fix all those animation shortcuts and issues for the third person.
A compromise is that some of us just want to be able to simply walk around in third person. This is one of the easiest ways to offer third person, since it's simple walk/run animations and things which are likely shared from the player model and npc's. I don't mind of it goes into first person for combat or such personally (though I think melee would work better in 3rd person) I just want to be able to walk around the world in third person and see my character in their outfits, etc as well as dialogue in third person. (We don't know if dialogue is shown in third person or not, some people have said it's only specific cutscenes and dialogue happens in first person, which would drastically reduce seeing your character at all in the game).
Part of the joy of customization in rpgs is seeing your character as you play, being able to see all the cool new gear you get and how your character looks, seeing them interacting with npc's and dialogue, the whole thing seems rather trivial if you put all of that in first person.
Speaking of Cyberpunk itself, one of the things about Cyberpunk is literally "looking cool/badass," that's one of the pillars of it. That's even a mechanic in the game with your jackets/outfits and affecting streetcred and things, which seems rather meaningless when you never see that aside from a very small time in cutscenes.
Then there's the people who simply can't handle first person view, and that's the people that I truly feel bad for, for example:
Watch this video, her reaction to seeing the reveal trailer from the xbox conference:
now watch her reaction to it being first person:
You are literally forcing some people to not be able to play or enjoy the game, people that were looking forward to it for years, that are huge rpg fans and fans of the studio.
To me it's worth it to have both, even if third person is somewhat "janky" like Bethesda games, I'd take some jank in third person just to have it over not having it.
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Just hoping for an option like the elder scrolls or fallout.
I actually really like playing elder scrolls and fallout in third person. Then switch to first in congested areas. It's really cool to switch between the two perspectives on the fly and see your character first hand.
The work involved would depend heavily on how they've animated the models and such.
Games like Mirrors edge and crysis both had poor animation quality from third person because they took shortcuts (since you were never intended to see them), you end up with things like this:
meanwhile some games do true first person modeling and they fully animate the character model regardless if you are going to see it or not, among sharing animations with npc's , so things that are shared like walking/running animations or combat moves that npc's can do as well as the player would likely be shared (since the player will see npc's do them you have to animate them expecting them to be seen).
It's much easier to do a full true animation and then add first/third person then it is to do "fake" first person and then add third person to that later on, because if you do it that way you're going to have to fix all those animation shortcuts and issues for the third person.
A compromise is that some of us just want to be able to simply walk around in third person. This is one of the easiest ways to offer third person, since it's simple walk/run animations and things which are likely shared from the player model and npc's. I don't mind of it goes into first person for combat or such personally (though I think melee would work better in 3rd person) I just want to be able to walk around the world in third person and see my character in their outfits, etc as well as dialogue in third person. (We don't know if dialogue is shown in third person or not, some people have said it's only specific cutscenes and dialogue happens in first person, which would drastically reduce seeing your character at all in the game).
Part of the joy of customization in rpgs is seeing your character as you play, being able to see all the cool new gear you get and how your character looks, seeing them interacting with npc's and dialogue, the whole thing seems rather trivial if you put all of that in first person.
Speaking of Cyberpunk itself, one of the things about Cyberpunk is literally "looking cool/badass," that's one of the pillars of it. That's even a mechanic in the game with your jackets/outfits and affecting streetcred and things, which seems rather meaningless when you never see that aside from a very small time in cutscenes.
Then there's the people who simply can't handle first person view, and that's the people that I truly feel bad for, for example:
Watch this video, her reaction to seeing the reveal trailer from the xbox conference:
now watch her reaction to it being first person:
You are literally forcing some people to not be able to play or enjoy the game, people that were looking forward to it for years, that are huge rpg fans and fans of the studio.
To me it's worth it to have both, even if third person is somewhat "janky" like Bethesda games, I'd take some jank in third person just to have it over not having it.
How is this any different from any other game that is only first person or only third person or only isometric or only sidescrolling and so on?
You are acting like it's an decision intentionally made to "force" people to not play or enjoy something, like it's done out of spite or something. Like you realize how your comments sound?
No one gets sick from third person or isometric and can't play those games.
There's also a reason that most rpgs are third person or offer it as a choice, people like it and having the choice pleases both sides of the fence without locking anyone out, even if it's subpar to the 1st person.
I never said they intentionally made it out of spite or anything, I understand they just want to make a fun kick ass game which they usually nail. I just would like to enjoy it in tpp sometimes (more then cutscenes/driving only), as well as the people who get motion sickness, that's the ones that I feel sad for since some of them have literally been waiting on this since announcement and they might not be able to even play it because of this. I'm one of the lucky tpp fans that can still play and enjoy fpp games, it's just not my main choice if I have one.
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How many RPGs actually offer a choice? The vast majority are locked to their perspective; the only games I can think of are Bethesda games and MGS 4/5, that let you play from both (Bethesda games practically begrudgingly so, given how poor the third person camera is)
Also most third person RPGs are heavily focused on melee combat (ie Witcher, Elex, Kingdom of Alamar, Gothic, etc), hence the third person perspective. It's not because "people like it"; it's because they're melee combat games and that works best in third person.
The most of the ones that aren't (Prey, System Shock, Deus Ex, STALKER, etc) tend to be focused on shooting. Games like Skyrim, Kingdom Come, and Butcher Bay - that do first person melee - are the rarity
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It really depends on how fast-paced the shooting gameplay is. I tried Bioshock Infinite because it looked cool. Nope, too dizzy for me. All the other information about the game is incredible so I'm still really excited for it.
Trying to paint developers that create games with only FP as evil or somehow inconsiderate is ridiculous. The entitlement is real. Sure it sucks to have motion sickness but that does not mean everything now has to cater specifically to you and drastically changes their games to accomodate you.
Do you know what most of those games you listed that were restricted to 1st person have in common? Little to no melee combat options, almost 100% focused on shooting as their main combat.
Cyberpunk 2077 has melee weapons/combat in it, It's not restricted to just guns. We don't know how extensive the melee weapons are yet but In the pen and paper game they have a multitude of melee weapons, from normal things like swords, axes, knives, clubs, etc to some high tech futuristic things like monowhips, monoswords, chainsaw knives, battlegloves, etc.
On top of that we already know that you will have augments/implants and V has an arm blade.
I agree. Not really seeing an issue in the decision made here.
And the description of melee combat from the demo sounds contextual rather than flailing around like Skyrim. One of the recent video discussions mentioned clinging to the wall with the arm blades and then doing a drop attack on an enemy before, and doing stealth takedowns from behind.
Dishonored had pretty good melee combat, as I remember. Not amazing by any means, but it felt good and worked well with the game's other systems. If they can pull off melee at least as good as that then I'll be perfectly happy.
I'm hoping for that with the melee, especially with the verticality in this game. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if it was just contextual attacks like the Syndicate FPS
Imagine being a third party studio developing a multi-platform game and getting the last word at Microsoft's E3 presentation ahead of exclusives like Gears of War and Halo. CDPR have come a long way.
Yup.
This was probably the best reveal of E3 for me, the idea of "hacking" the conference was amazing, execution was also pretty smooth.
That's my question. Most games are either first or third. Why is this suddenly a problem? It's a first person game. Witcher 3 was a third person game. They're different things. Dishonored, Doom, Prey, Deus Ex etc - all first person. It's how they were designed and it's great. I'd rather they concentrate on great first person camera work and animation than sacrifice quality to support both.
It must have been amazing. I got chills watching it on stream.
Do you have beans to spill about the game?
No one from CD Projekt is watching this thread...….
When something like this comes down the pipeline, it is almost guaranteed that those who want something to complain about will get first word... And they have here.
When it comes to FPP in 2077, it only makes sense... If you are going for a more in-depth realistic feel to augmentation.
Think about this... If the player doesn't have any augmentations then they will have a normal FPP screen with their gun down at the bottom. Now... Send the player to get some eye augmentations, and you can add the extra added UI to their screen and it just feels more like you got eye augments as to where TPP it would not.
It doesn't really make sense to add the new UI to the screen in TPP, since you aren't actually viewing through the character.
I am actually more interested now that's FPS.
Still there is along way to go, I don't expect to see this game before 2020 or even 2021.
Edit: cdpr should announce it's an Xbox exclusive for extra salt.
Still there is along way to go, I don't expect to see this game before 2020 or even 2021.
Edit: cdpr should announce it's an Xbox exclusive for extra salt.
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