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BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
If you don't care about these issues one way or the other, don't bother telling us that in this thread.

I freaking love CyberPunk 2077 from what I've seen. Looks like a dream game (unless you are playing on base consoles RIP current gen).

But there's some things that are exhausting about CDPR. They suck at social issues from diversity to publicly respecting LGBT people to humane work schedules. And they don't seem to mind that much. They say they'll avoid crunch, but have set a hard date almost a year in advance, so I wonder how well they've planned that considering the game has already taken longer than they expected. Crunch is lame and detrimental. Let's hope they avoid it this time.

First we had The Witcher games. White as f despite being a fantasy with zero valid reasons to alienate non-white depictions. They chalk it up to adapting books and being Polish... as a white person with Polish ancestry I thought their answer was totally bland. But hey, CyberPunk 2077 looks more diverse in its side characters despite going with white man cover art as generic as usual. https://www.pcgamer.com/fifty-shades-of-white-witcher-3-devs-talk-race-and-adapting-literature/

There was the incident of tweeting a Gamergate support meme from the GoG Twitter. They later apologized.
619fe8d734594c103cdec6457236b20b434199630f534f08ccc2acfdd28faf67.png


Then there's trans issues. They screwed this up on social media more than once as well, and while they possibly replaced one person responsible for the first incident shown below (according to some articles), the second case seemed to end in deleting the tweet and making no positive acknowledgement of trans people. Just an apology that was along the lines of 'sorry to those offended' and ending it there. Do they need to fire someone again? Nope. Should they clarify their views on trans people? I think so. First it was this:

Then this:

Then we move on - despite having US offices they don't acknowledge pride or LGBT people as a company with any positive notions. Many gaming companies and outlets both in and out of the USA acknowledge their LGBT employees. Why don't they? With their history in tweets and silence in public, I'd love to know if they care about this.

There was also the weirdness where a dev on their Discord said they won't do any similar statements to the progressive one the Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines 2 put out which takes a firm stance and vows to represent LGBT people and even mental illness well.

Also who writes "cocksucker" as an insult still for fictional future settings?

So I'm conflicted. They've casted doubt on themselves, and left it there.

I wish they'd make the doubt go away.
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
They managed to make everyone forget about this by using the amount of clout that Keanu Reeves has, nothing matters anymore.
 
Mar 29, 2018
7,078
Some of the "social stances" angle definitely seems to be particular individuals within the company who maybe had too much volition. Not the case everywhere though.

What I'm more worried about is the crunch thing. I met a couple of devs who worked at CDPR on Witcher 3: Wild Hunt and they basically said it was 3 years of straight crunch, a proper sweatshop vibe. Said that it's a meat grinder people are keen to get out of.

That makes me more dubious about the title than anything else, but I'll probably be a total hypocrite and buy it anyway :(
 

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
I don't even necessarily agree it looks amazing. The setting is cool, but nothing they've shown so far has looked particularly compelling. Most of the showings are just some cool CG trailers, and while the gameplay they released last year looked cool, it was just that: cool. There's nothing there that seems special. It seems like people are assuming it will be great based on TW3, largely.

With all that said, I agree with you, OP. I'm a bit hesitant on getting this game with how much CDPR has been in hot water regarding social issues and stances.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
I'm in the same boat, OP. Still not decided whether I'll play CP2077 because of how suspect CDPR is in my eyes at this point.
 

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
Idk maybe I'm the problem but I've only heard like 2 developers not have crunch. I don't care about the messaging issue because what one person puts out as a message on a twitter post isn't representative of the team
 

Dalik

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,528
the trailer dropping slurs like cock suckers, supposed to be something negative, gave it away pretty easily how cdpr feels about the subjects.
 

fracas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,636
I'm probably going to get the game, but I definitely agree. Since CDPR has shared bigoted content more than once, it's pretty obvious it's a culture thing rather than an isolated incident.
 

HaremKing

Banned
Dec 20, 2018
2,416
I mean, if you don't want to support the amazing job that CDPR has done for PC gaming, that's all and fine as that is your choice. I have no issues with doing so. GOG is by far the most consumer-friendly PC gaming store/launcher with its complete 100% no DRM policy.

For me, actions speak much louder than Twitter posts, but I can understand that for some people it is the other way around.
 

Sasliquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,294
I had real concerns about Keanus speech framing Cyberpunk as a cool badass place instead of a terrifying corporate hellscape
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
I thought the community manager (who doesn't work on the game) got fired due to those posts?

For the insults ingame, I mean, it's a bleak setting. You'll have offending terms in many ways due to the NPCs and being edgy/stupid. I'm not sure that's a game you should play if you don't want that.
 

r0t

Banned
May 23, 2019
28
Why do social issues matter? I disagree with 99.9999% of the politics of people in the music and movie industry but I still buy their music and watch their movies and TV shows.
 

Harlequin

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,614
I agree. I'm gonna take a bit of a wait and see approach. Wait until we know more about things like how they handle sexual objectification of NPCs* in the game, how they handle same-sex romances, how they handle LGBTQ NPCs, etc. If they handle those well, it's all good. but for the reasons mentioned in the OP, I'm not currently convinced that they will.

*I'm not saying there should be no sexual objectification or no nudity or any such nonsense. I'm merely saying that it shouldn't be handled in a sexist or misogynistic way. If you sexualise characters, sexualise male and female characters equally. And make sure keep it contained to situations where it makes sense. Showing characters in flimsy outfits in a strip club, for example? A-okay. Putting soldiers or hitmen into impractically flimsy outfits? Not so much.
 

Loudninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,188
I mean, if you don't want to support the amazing job that CDPR has done for PC gaming, that's all and fine. I have no issues with doing so. GOG is by far the most consumer-friendly with its complete 100% no DRM policy.
Wow you didnt read a damn thing in the OP.

Gaming isnt that important to ignore this stuff.
 

AnchormanV2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15
Yeah, don't really care about the social media messaging issues. Cyberpunk looks like a damn good game that I now plan to get (Keanu or not)
 

Ducayne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
643
It's also disappointing to me considering how high regard I hold CD Projekt in other areas, but this does rub me the wrong way a bit. I'm not too hung up on a low life thug character using the word cocksucker if it fits with his narrative to be an asshole. I think we'll have to see how LGBT and other minority representation is in their new game, that will be their redeeming factor or the final nail in the coffin.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Considering how damn uninspired the game's box art is, I feel like this game is going to be just as bad as I'm afraid it is

Like I said "Naughty Dog jizzed on a piss-soaked rag" or something close to that effect and someone here noted that Naughty Dog didn't originate or codify the "white dude with a beard holding up a gun and looking into the distance" style of art which I take as an argument that the design is even more uninspired than I'd taken it to be
 

Francesco

Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,521
The culprit is gone.
Didn't he join some alt right media group?
Asshole.

Game companies are not political parties, they're made up of different people. Just watch the Noclip doc on them.

Of course there are some right minded individuals, but also not, just like in the USA.
 

oxymoron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
821
Wasn't this one bad actor that got fired?
Regardless of whether the social media manager in question got fired or not (I'm genuinely unaware of if that's true or not), the company as a whole's response to the incidents and their attitude wrt to people demanding better really show that it's not one person's probably, but a company-wide issue.
 

LifeLine

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,779
Yeah their repeated offenses definitely speaks to their values/culture.

I'll still probably get the game though.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Also who writes "cocksucker" as an insult still for fictional future settings?

You do realise that the swear words we use today came about a long time ago?



What insight into the future has you think people won't be swearing any more?

I don't even necessarily agree it looks amazing. The setting is cool, but nothing they've shown so far has looked particularly compelling. Most of the showings are just some cool CG trailers, and while the gameplay they released last year looked cool, it was just that: cool. There's nothing there that seems special. It seems like people are assuming it will be great based on TW3, largely.

With all that said, I agree with you, OP. I'm a bit hesitant on getting this game with how much CDPR has been in hot water regarding social issues and stances.

Persona 5 has you dating if not having implied sex with your teacher.

Not to mention the gay jokes.
 

Deleted member 56580

User requested account closure
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May 8, 2019
1,881
the video game doesnt even understand the concepts of the base game, I'll give a safe take on the player not able to play the fully non lethal classes. its just gonna be another boring power fantasy as opposed to what the base game is, on top of very much known issues as far as CDPR are involved in

tbh i think that the satisfaction you get from the production values shared by so many people partaking in this industry kinda overshadows the misteps

but i also think that forgiving is being human.

```It's going to be the whitest game. ```

yeah especially when V as a girl is clearly mixed latina, with a latino sidekick, working for a black dude
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
I recommend, at the very least, waiting to see how the game pans out, in terms of story. Yes, the person responsible for the GOG.com media account got fired after making those tweets, but one of them came directly from the Cyberpunk account, and we have no reason to believe they share the same media team. But, knowing Gamers, nothing will happen, even if they have queerphobic overtones in their game. We've seen this happen before with Persona and Dragon Quest. If people like the game or the developers, they support them no matter what.
 

xMaximusx

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
235
Not everyone at every company is gonna believe everything you believe. I'm not worried about the inner thoughts of the guy flipping my burger, nor those of people creating games that catch my interest and i wanna play. I'll be buying Cyberpunk for sure
 

honest_ry

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
4,288
They could personally call you a cocksucker and i bet you would still buy the game.

On a more serious note, if you are conflicted then dont buy it. You are not being forced.
 

Deleted member 925

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,711
Why do social issues matter? I disagree with 99.9999% of the politics of people in the music and movie industry but I still buy their music and watch their movies and TV shows.

Are you a straight white dude or a queer person?

Because depending on your answer, it definitely matters.
 

Danteyke223

Banned
Oct 24, 2018
937
The social stance is one thing I find iffy with CDProjekt Red, the other thing I find iffy is the rumors about how shitty is to work for them as developer. Also even though they make record amount of cash, they get EU founding and the wages there are maybe mildly better compared to Hungary. Cause that Polish Zlotyi is shit tier currency I tell ya
 

Deleted member 32374

User requested account closure
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Nov 10, 2017
8,460
They managed to make everyone forget about this by using the amount of clout that Keanu Reeves has, nothing matters anymore.

The Keanu Reeves thing is eye rolling. But apparently effective.

Its ok to be conflicted. I'm a bit conflicted with the issues surrounding CD Project but I will probably support GOG and their upcoming products.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
Not everyone at every company is gonna believe everything you believe. I'm not worried about the inner thoughts of the guy flipping my burger, nor those of people creating games that catch my interest and i wanna play. I'll be buying Cyberpunk for sure

I sort of want the person flipping my burgers to recognize basic human rights of minorities if you know what I mean tho.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,102
See how the game actually turns out and whether more of this shit pops up.

If the game seems fine, purchase.

Donate to a worthy cause to offset.
 

Harlequin

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,614
You do realise that the swear words we use today came about a long time ago?

What insight into the future has you think people won't be swearing any more?

I don't think anyone here has any issues with swearing in general but more with the particular swear word being used in this case and the implications it brings with it.
 

iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,939
Why do social issues matter? I disagree with 99.9999% of the politics of people in the music and movie industry but I still buy their music and watch their movies and TV shows.

I'm going to be blunt, but if everyone was like you - then a bunch of people would have skated by without hindrance in the #MeToo movement. Basically, if everyone excuses or explains away this shit, it's never going to change.
 

Uthred

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
If you feel strongly about buying the game then don't buy it. Don't look for excuses to let them off the hook so you can justify buying a game to yourself.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
While I would have liked a proper apology, they made the right moves behind the scenes to rectify the overall issue. Hollie Bennet is now part of the communications team and as both a woman and one who generally keeps with the social norms and zeitgeist, the problematic past behaviours most likely will not be repeated.

That said, I am not going to criticize others for their ambivalence towards purchase decision.
 

Blackthorn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,315
London
The close proximity to next gen means that I'll be waiting a few months before I play it anyway, but if this wasn't a factor their messaging definitely pushed it from "day one" to "I'll wait and see how well they represent people first".

Unlike The Witcher 3 (which I adored), they can't possibly skirt around "social issues" in a cyberpunk setting as the genre itself is a vehicle for exploring social issues in a futuristic setting. So I'm approaching with caution this time.
 

dragonbane

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,583
Germany
Stuff CDPR has been doing is pretty rampant in Poland unfortunately. So I very much doubt it is just that one social media guy.
 

Billdrew

Member
Apr 8, 2019
516
Although I'm hoping for some kind of decent LGBT representation in Cyberpunk, I actually don't think the company itself needs to get involved in anything outside of developing and marketing their game.
Why does every company have to post things about pride month to not be considered homophobic
 
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