Cyberpunk 2077 looks amazing, but I’m conflicted about supporting CD Projekt Red with the doubt they’ve cast around their social stances.

Eternalgamer

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
220
I'm arguing against the fights that are being fought, not against the people behind the fights.
It's a good distinction and I agree, but when people start insinuating things about your character and start policing conversations based around identity politics rather than the quality of arguments, it's probably another one of those "know when to pick your battles, things." It frustrates me we can't have these kinds of discussions without it resorting to that stuff, but it's where our politics are at the moment, unfortunately. At any rate, I tried to share my thoughts on this stuff but this seems like a good time to head for the door before things get more direct and more nasty.
 

Jar0d

Persona Of Interest
Banned
Jun 11, 2019
47
I can't blame you op, but I've made my choice. I won't support CDPR anymore.
 

MXT

Banned
May 13, 2019
487
If you got an issue with my post, just say it because I don't know what you are trying to say.
No issue with your post. Saying that a lot of transphobes are going to get themselves banned due to their awful conduct in this thread. I meant to quote-reply to someone else, my bad.
 

Anustart

9 Million Scovilles
Avenger
Nov 12, 2017
2,061
It's a good distinction and I agree, but when people start insinuating things about your character and start policing conversations based around identity politics rather than the quality of arguments, it's probably another one of those "know when to pick your battles, things." It frustrates me we can't have these kinds of discussions without it resorting to that stuff, but it's where our politics are at the moment, unfortunately. At any rate, I tried to share my thoughts on this stuff but this seems like a good time to head for the door before things get more direct and more nasty.
Thank you. Honestly.
 
Nov 4, 2017
1,721
I might get shit for this but since you asked...

It’s funny to see how many (presumably cis) people in this thread are like “I’m willing to overlook the transphobia, it was probably just one dude”

Like, oh, are you? What a surprise.
As a cisgender straight white male, I can honestly say that I'm surprised more of us aren't getting neck injuries from now hard we look the other way on any issue.
 

AllChan7

Member
Apr 30, 2019
72
As long as people don't attack others for buying and enjoying the game cool. Or vice versa. If you don't wanna buy it because of this and other issues you've had with CDPR, that's fine. But I'm not the type to deprive myself of an amazing gaming experience over something that might be intentionally malicious.

And no, that image doesn't give me the impression that all trans individuals are what the image depicts.
 

Mewshuji

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,053
I didn't think that we would get a more transphobic joke than the one in GTA5's loading screens in AAA games going forward but uh... Holy shit? How else is it supposed to be taken?

A character evidently meant to be a trans woman (technically could be a very pretty cis or post-op trans man but knowing CDPR and their depiction of men this is highly unlikely) getting a boner by sucking on Chromosome juice made up of 16 different flavors.

At best it's not intended to be a joke at all and is just a flavor ad that no one with any level of sensitivity saw before it got added in.

But more likely? Again, knowing CDPR? With how they categorically denied they'd ever put in genderfluidity in their options for a fucking cyberpunk game with a creatable character, a genre that heavily involved identity and how we as a species express it? With, more egregiously, how they've made transphobic jokes in the past? It's a tasteless fucking joke at the expense of trans women and the concept of transness in general.

I think even people who want the game can admit that.
And no, that image doesn't give me the impression that all trans individuals are what the image depicts.
That's not really the point. Obviously someone who isn't outright bigoted won't have their mind changed by one bad joke, one bad image. However, people on the fence, or who aren't educated? Might see a number of these and start going bigoted. And it just reinforces the "attack helicopter" joke type transphobes. 16 flavors of chromosome juice!!!

Like if you can look past this and still enjoy the game, great. But let's not pretend this is an innocuous thing CDPR did here. It's not.
 
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Orwell

Banned
Jun 6, 2019
335
It's not because I think the behavior is ok. Like I said, i think it's worth discussing and criticizing. But I also think a lot of outrage culture that happens on the internet doesn't have much to do with actually changing culture for the better. That's not to say it never does (the "Me Too" movement is a good example of positive change that came from internet outrage), but most of the time I just don't think much productive comes out of it. Real change, in my view, largely happens legislatively on the large scale and through personal relationships on the small scale. It was a huge deal for me when the city I live in passed a law last year making it illegal to fire someone for being gay (yes it just happened here last year). And it was a big deal to see people I care about start to shift their opinions (my fundementalist father, colleagues, etc.). Real change is important. I just don't think telling strangers off online or trying to get them fired for saying things I don't like, denying them a livelihood, or even boycotting a company because I don't like what someone who worked there tweeted, makes much difference. In fact, if it moves the needle one way or the other, I'm tempted to think it just mostly creates more resentment and division than it does actually actually move things in the right direction.
If someone resents the fact that “outrage culture” got them fired for making comments that lead to the normalization of views which make society harmful to marginalized groups, I don’t care. That is not my problem. Division already exists, and it’s certainly not because those of us who comprise the culture of “outrage” are intolerant of bigotry.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Member
Sep 16, 2018
474
lmao these threads are such an idiot magnet, if you don't care why is it so hard to not comment, to look past the thread and ignore it, did you really think anyone wants to know how much you don't care about this topic? (But still enough to come tell us how much you don't care)

Look at you go, don't even care enough to read the first line of the OP:

Why don't you go on your carefree merry way outta here.
This is a discussion board not an echo chamber.

Until a mod says you are not allowed to disagree with the OP, you can.
 

AllChan7

Member
Apr 30, 2019
72
I didn't think that we would get a more transphobic joke than the one in GTA5's loading screens in AAA games going forward but uh... Holy shit? How else is it supposed to be taken?

A character evidently meant to be a trans woman (technically could be a very pretty cis or post-op trans man but knowing CDPR and their depiction of men this is highly unlikely) getting a boner by sucking on Chromosome juice made up of 16 different flavors.

At best it's not intended to be a joke at all and is just a flavor ad that no one with any level of sensitivity saw before it got added in.

But more likely? Again, knowing CDPR? With how they categorically denied they'd ever put in genderfluidity in their options for a fucking cyberpunk game with a creatable character, a genre that heavily involved identity and how we as a species express it? With, more egregiously, how they've made transphobic jokes in the past? It's a tasteless fucking joke at the expense of trans women and the concept of transness in general.

I think even people who want the game can admit that.
That's not really the point. Obviously someone who isn't outright bigoted won't have their mind changed by one bad joke, one bad image. However, people on the fence, or who aren't educated? Might see a number of these and start going bigoted. And it just reinforces the "attack helicopter" joke type transphobes. 16 flavors of chromosome juice!!!

Like if you can look past this and still enjoy the game, great. But let's not pretend this is an innocuous thing CDPR did here. It's not.
I wonder is that image one of ads you can interact with to buy drinks or food. If so than its gonna become very noticeable for the mainstream when they play it so hopefully CDPR addresses this and clarifies their intentions and change it to avoid backlash. I understand if they weren't trying to be offensive but as developer with a high profile game, the last thing you want is a scandal like this to lose out on potential sales

Tho, I believe this game will sell extremely well regardless but it doesn't mean it isn't an issue for some.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
5,038
UK
This is a discussion board not an echo chamber.

Until a mod says you are not allowed to disagree with the OP, you can.
Sure, but when all you're (we're both talking in the wider one) doing to discuss in the discussion is running in to tell people how little you care about transphobic issues because you want to play your game then perhaps don't play the victim when you're called out for shallow posts and contributing little to a sensitive topic.

I'm not running into every Cyberpunk thread telling people how I don't plan to buy the game. Why is it hard to allow a thread - this is hardly a niche game with only few of them - to discuss transphobic issues without feeling a compulsion to tell people how little you care or how much you're looking forward to the game.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,358
Re: the drink advert, I can't give CDPR the benefit of the doubt after their history, but at the same time it reads as bog standard thirst trap/fetishization stuff to my eyes. I'm trans, I certainly indulge in like shit, and I'd need more context to really feel like I could come down on one side or another on this.

my opinion is that this will be "wow, cool robot" the game

i might be pleasantly surprised, but i don't have the highest of hope's right now - gonna wait and see how the game turns out

it is nice that the game will have queer relationships according to an interview, but who knows how the execution will be
This is my fear to a t.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,966
I think what some people in this thread are trying to say is shaming, attacking, boycotting everything that has a belief against yours often doesn't actually have a positive effect on things, it either has them keep their same shitty beliefs or just pretending they don't have them.

I think more and more instead of attacking or boycotting or...being angry, we need to start celebrating, promoting and sharing love of the companies and things that do have those good beliefs.
Nothing is stopping people from doing both. In fact, people often do both. Like I posted pages ago, people in fact did do as much in regards to the overt progressive stances of the Bloodlines 2 devs on this very board. For people to start to change they actually have to know what's being done wrong. They have to actually face consequences and not just be ignored. If someone is driving on the wrong side of the road, you don't stay silent and hope they realize their mistake and do the right thing at some point in the next few miles. NOTHING about our world in regards to progress and equality changed because the marginalized stayed silent so as not to piss off the people behind their marginalization. If a company like CDPR wants to make their shit public then they're inviting a public response. And it's not up to those in the target of harmful rhetoric to be silent in regards to how they feel because of some nebulous idea that "they might continue to believe what they believe" be it CDPR or someone's coworker. Marginalized people aren't obligated to stay silent when they already let multiple instances of microagressions and outright abuse slide on a day to day basis just for the sake of their own mental health. If LGBTQ+ people, or black and brown people, or women, or religious minorities actually let loose literally everything they actually deal with none of us would get any fucking thing done. Here's a secret: genuine people will actually either want to change or want to actually have a conversation when confronted about their conscious or subconscious bigotry. They'll actually want to listen or have a discussion or actually grow. And people who aren't genuine and who aren't ever actually interested in being challenged will stay mired in their beliefs and will attempt to gaslight people. That's all. People don't dig in on their beliefs because they're challenged on them, they dig in because they want to. They dig in because they're self-concerned and uninterested/unemapthetic to the opinions and emotions of the people around them.
 
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Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,358

Basically, my eyes would roll into my ear canals if bozos like this were in charge of this game.
 

Raiden

Member
Nov 6, 2017
982

Basically, my eyes would roll into my ear canals if bozos like this were in charge of this game.
Who is that? A developer?

I'm going to be honest here i really dont care about crunch, i mean damn i get slaughtered at work at times and its my own free choice, i changed jobs before i can do it again, its Poland for crying out loud not Pakistan where jobs are hard to come by.

Now the whole transphobia i understand, i hope you guys get some answers in the future but i doubt it, they're probably going to focus on just positive marketing their game, unless another incident happens.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,358
Who is that? A developer?

I'm going to be honest here i really dont care about crunch, i mean damn i get slaughtered at work at times and its my own free choice, i changed jobs before i can do it again, its Poland for crying out loud not Pakistan where jobs are hard to come by.

Now the whole transphobia i understand, i hope you guys get some answers in the future but i doubt it, they're probably going to focus on just positive marketing their game, unless another incident happens.
Reactionary fuckboy on twitter. Stress on the IF people like that were determining the direction of the game.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Member
Sep 16, 2018
474
I'm not running into every Cyberpunk thread telling people how I don't plan to buy the game. Why is it hard to allow a thread - this is hardly a niche game with only few of them - to discuss transphobic issues without feeling a compulsion to tell people how little you care or how much...
Certainly you are free to do so, no one will stop you. Just as I am free to say I will not participate in a boycott.

However this is the only thread arguing for a CDPR boycott so there's nowhere else to to specifically state your position against participating in the boycott.

And honestly some unfortunate tweets are rather minor when it comes to trans issues. In my country trans are still pushed to prostitution as a last resort to make ends meet since the job market rejects them and as a result of that some of them have been murdered in the night while they were alone looking for clients. Talk about that and you have my support.

But I do not engage in boycotts and until a mod declares that this thread can only go one way, I will both state my opinion and my right to say it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
18
But I do not engage in boycotts and until a mod declares that this thread can only go one way, I will both state my opinion and my right to say it.
I don't get this position. I'm not boycotting CD Projekt... yet, anyways. That could change if turns out that the stuff we've seen on twitter is not just a few people but representative of the majority of the company or the leadership.

To refuse entirely to boycott is to throw away one of the only actual tools consumers have for exerting leverage on companies. Why would anyone give up that power?
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
5,038
UK
And honestly some unfortunate tweets are rather minor when it comes to trans issues. In my country trans are still pushed to prostitution as a last resort to make ends meet since the job market rejects them and as a result of that some of them have been murdered in the night while they were alone looking for clients. Talk about that and you have my support.
This isn't a competition, one is able to denounce both situations. Transphobia doesn't have to hit a certain level before it's an issue.

But I do not engage in boycotts and until a mod declares that this thread can only go one way, I will both state my opinion and my right to say it.
Go nuts I guess, if you feel you must.
 

seroun

Member
Oct 25, 2018
382
I am also pretty conflicted. I am excited for the game, but the transphobia that the company seems to defend makes me back down inmediately.
 

Sianos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,360

Basically, my eyes would roll into my ear canals if bozos like this were in charge of this game.
i'd almost rather no representation than gross attempts at using trans people as a spectacle in the anemic worldbuilding of what could potentially be a typical shooter-with-RPG-elements, except now it's future

people disingenuously try to claim that positive examples of LGTBQ+ representation are just shoehorned in, but i have the exact opposite opinion - it's the negative examples that use queer people for shock value that are *truly* shoehorned in, and games like Persona 5 would be vastly improved without them

similar to the edgelords who repeat The One Right Wing Joke About Gender, that's just lazily checking a box in the worst sense

i think i'm being a little too pre-emptively harsh, but i'd rather be pleasantly surprised than severely let down
 

Tzarscream

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,702
Isn't the prudent thing to do here to have a measured level of scepticism here, wait for it to come out, wait for clever people to play it and see what the subtext is and then not play it if it seems shitty?
 

starbuck2907

Member
Jan 29, 2018
74
I don’t believe in diversity litmus tests for entertainment products.

It doesn’t even cross my mind. If it is good, I check it out. That’s my litmus test.
 

Tya

Member
Oct 30, 2017
688
Considering how damn uninspired the game's box art is, I feel like this game is going to be just as bad as I'm afraid it is

Like I said "Naughty Dog jizzed on a piss-soaked rag" or something close to that effect and someone here noted that Naughty Dog didn't originate or codify the "white dude with a beard holding up a gun and looking into the distance" style of art which I take as an argument that the design is even more uninspired than I'd taken it to be
I judge everything based on box art.
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
850
I don’t believe in diversity litmus tests for entertainment products.

It doesn’t even cross my mind. If it is good, I check it out. That’s my litmus test.
Isn't that the criticism equivalent of I don't see race? You don't factor how a game handles themes like diversity or sexuality or body identity even if they are themes in the world itself? I understand gameplay is a major factor but so is setting and plot. Proudly declaring you don't care about diversity is not some enlightened take, it really is just bragging about your own apathy. Maybe you mean something different, but it really just comes off as a I don't care post.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,348
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
my opinion is that this will be "wow, cool robot" the game

i might be pleasantly surprised, but i don't have the highest of hope's right now - gonna wait and see how the game turns out

it is nice that the game will have queer relationships according to an interview, but who knows how the execution will be
This is where I'm at too. Cyberpunk's merely an aesthetic to many, and there have been a few instances that made me suspect CDPR is part of that group. We'll have to wait and see, I guess.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
This post clearly shows you aced Whataboutism 101.
Care to elaborate or are you trying to ace drive by comments that the person you are responding to has to decipher themself?

If it's the comment about Persona 5, it's not my fault people pick and choose what games they decide have the problematic content they're going to boycott but others with similar problematic content get overlooked because the game was good, fun or you simply decide this is the game you'll give a pass.

At the time of me making that post, Persona 5 actually has problematic content in game, we didn't even know what was in Cyberpunk other than what was shown in the 48 minute demo.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,313
Care to elaborate or are you trying to ace drive by comments that the person you are responding to has to decipher themself?

If it's the comment about Persona 5, it's not my fault people pick and choose what games they decide have the problematic content they're going to boycott but others with similar problematic content get overlooked because the game was good, fun or you simply decide this is the game you'll give a pass.

At the time of me making that post, Persona 5 actually has problematic content in game, we didn't even know what was in Cyberpunk other than what was shown in the 48 minute demo.
Seems like you figured out my post pretty easily, so why pretend it was cryptic?

And have you done any actual legwork to see if the people having an issue with this in this thread had no problem with the LGBT issues in Persona 5? Like, do you have an example of a single person doing this here?
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Seems like you figured out my post pretty easily, so why pretend it was cryptic?

And have you done any actual legwork to see if the people having an issue with this in this thread had no problem with the LGBT issues in Persona 5? Like, do you have an example of a single person doing this here?
Because guessing what part of the post you are aiming at was 50/50. Either the swearing or Persona. If I was wrong then I'd probably be ridiculed for not guessing right. Just saying it's better to be precise.

Sure they probably do, but the person I responded to just said they didn't go down that path. That's possible with the teacher buts it's not possible with the gay jokes and gay characters which chase you around. Why ask Phantom Thief? Well, I think everyone knows he's the biggest Persona 5 fan on this forum lol.

Anyway, it's totally up to you what you boycott or what you don't, or what content in one game you like you'll just ignore but something similar elsewhere you'll express more open resistance of. We're all hypocrites at times, but games are ripe for it because it's often a matter of convienence when many say anything.

Persona 5 went nuts on MC. Cyberpunk will probably do the same given TW3 and the fact most of the issues around this so far are outwith the game. We need to see more of the game to better judge how faithful it's been to source material. The second games score amazingly that's when hypocrisy is usually at its rife. No one wanting to miss out on 'potential GOTY'.
 
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Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
5,038
UK
If it's the comment about Persona 5, it's not my fault people pick and choose what games they decide have the problematic content they're going to boycott but others with similar problematic content get overlooked because the game was good, fun or you simply decide this is the game you'll give a pass.
Don't forget that people may be simply unaware of the harmful content in those games. Which is why threads like this discussing problematic or potentially-problematic content are important, as they raise awareness and discussion of those points.
 

Andrew-Ryan

Member
Dec 4, 2018
528
Is the issue with the in-game ad the ad itself or because it's CDPR behind it and so people assume it's insincere?
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,937
Honestly I'm finding this game easier and easier to pass up on. Cyberpunk should be interesting, the story could have some very messed up societal structure and clearly these are not the guys for that sort of story. Going by the trailer that leaves me with a generic failed robbery story and a Keanu surprise. Honestly, that's not enough to sell a game.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Is the issue with the in-game ad the ad itself or because it's CDPR behind it and so people assume it's insincere?
Bit of both, but probably primarily the latter. Anyone who knows enough about Cyberpunk will know of the sexual diversity, how the world doesn't care for anyone modding their body, including their genitals (which could imply size modification), and that sexual expression, in general, will be far less repressed than it is now. One of the tweet replies I seen was taken from the Cyberpunk manual of 1995 and it depicted a character you could assume was gender fluid or at least you couldn't say for certain unless they themselves stated, and there was a penis bulge. Though, a little less dramatic than what appears to be an erect cock here. The obsession that humanity has had with cocks, or phallic structures, is well documented. Even now when you get Clive Barker depicting hell, it's always demons/humanoids with massive cocks. Or when people draw hentai/furry art or whatever the "fantasy" depiction is, there is nearly always a massive cock. There's some genuinely serious study somewhere that probably goes through history and documents and argues as to why humans have had such an obsession with the penis being represented as a large, dominant power structure. I guess in part that is part of the patriarchy. The fucking Greeks/Romans were drawing big cocks on everything too, and everyone knows parts of Greek/Roman culture was probably even more fluid than what we have now.

Even if CDPR say it's relevant to the word of 2077 and Mike Pondsmith himself backs the swearing, sex, imagery and so on, the doubt will be CDPR are only doing all of this to mock people. You take our current day sensibilities and sensitivities and apply them to this make-believe world. While that itself is quite normal to do, given that even if you approach something as of another time or make-believe it could still upset or trigger bad memories for you. Just knowing that its acting or relevant to that world, doesn't mean everyone can then shrug it off. Like someone watching Deadwood and not being able to handle it due to all the swearing. I would never say you're wrong to feel like that. But I would say the context and intent matter, because something being created just to mock people is not the same as something being as it is because that's reality in that world.

If people want an actual conversation about why this could be a depiction of a penis (it almost certainly is, unless it's going to be rolled out as some "hidden" bomb mod or something daft like that), it is relevant to seat it in 2077 and how people are then, not how people are in real-life earth in 2019. Expressing concern right now is understandable, but this world and game are going to be a hell of a culture war.

What do I mean by that? Well, besides the issues CDPR bring on themselves from social media behaviour casting doubt on them being fit for this world, a lot of the right-wing media that is currently shouting about "censorship" and "overly sensitive people", are probably going to be in for a treat when they actually play the game. Why? Because I still remain optimistic the content of the game itself is going to be very in-line with Cyberpunk, which means people having sex with who they want without judgement, gender identity being fluid and accepted, people modifying all parts of their body with implants and technology, even genitalia, and imagery all around the world which leans into that without any shame or concern. So the Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve kinds of bigots who fight in these battles online are probably going to get put in uncomfortable positions for their own ideologies when it comes to actually playing this and not just posting shit on twitter about lefties overreacting.

You see, irrespective of some thinking Cyberpunk means everyone evolves and doesn't swear or use coarse language, but says jinkies and yikes, that's just not that this world. This world is less censorious than what we even live in just now. It's punk gone mainstream. The same applies to sexual fluidity and the concepts of male and female, they aren't even anywhere near as rigid as they are in 2019. So while you can express concerns CDPR are handling this world, I think a lot of people of all different persuasions right now might get a shock on how things actually are in-game. At least, CDPR won't be the kind of dev to hold back depicting things as the world suggests. PEGI and the ESRB will have their work cut out for them. I understand crudeness and being explicit don't necessarily mean being faithful or doing it well, but inherently this world is crude and explicit. Irrespective of 2019 sensibilities.

You know, the kinds of sensibilities that have MS censoring swear words at E3.
 
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Tzarscream

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,702
I'd like to add to this discussion that I lived in Poland for 4 years and can tell you they are generally pretty socially conservative due to a litany of reasons I can't really be bothered getting in to. Unfortunately, socially they are just behind about 10 or so years (or more depending where you go).

That's not to say there aren't progressive polish people though.

So I'm not expecting this game to be massively progressive but do hope they at least show some awareness of the subject matter they are dealing with and the wider world that we live in and not punch down.

Edit: Additionally I think the Cyberpunk world they are showing, regardless of the politics, looks pretty derivative and the music they have used in these trailers is also quite generic "future music" which kind of suggests to me this is more an amalgamation of previous cyberpunk films and media rather than something new.

I like Keanu though.
 

Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,311

Has this been posted yet? Because uhhh yeah it kind of contradicts the whole "the transphobia problem was one dude, now it's all fixed" assertion...
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,313
Because guessing what part of the post you are aiming at was 50/50. Either the swearing or Persona. If I was wrong then I'd probably be ridiculed for not guessing right. Just saying it's better to be precise.

Sure they probably do, but the person I responded to just said they didn't go down that path. That's possible with the teacher buts it's not possible with the gay jokes and gay characters which chase you around. Why ask Phantom Thief? Well, I think everyone knows he's the biggest Persona 5 fan on this forum lol.

Anyway, it's totally up to you what you boycott or what you don't, or what content in one game you like you'll just ignore but something similar elsewhere you'll express more open resistance of. We're all hypocrites at times, but games are ripe for it because it's often a matter of convienence when many say anything.

Persona 5 went nuts on MC. Cyberpunk will probably do the same given TW3 and the fact most of the issues around this so far are outwith the game. We need to see more of the game to better judge how faithful it's been to source material. The second games score amazingly that's when hypocrisy is usually at its rife. No one wanting to miss out on 'potential GOTY'.
Well you had nothing to worry about, because my comment was for both posts!

And it looks like you’ve done nothing to make sure the people you are criticizing are actually being hypocritical.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,966
I was dwelling on this point last night before falling asleep but the other angle people often don't consider is that on top of consumers watching how these companies react to these incidents, employees do to. There are undoubtedly employees at or who work with CDPR all the way from development capacities to distribution and publishing to simple building/office maintenance who are themselves or who have loved ones who are LGBTQ+. Some who are out and some who are still in the closet and simply trying to get by. What happens to their trust in the people they work with and under when the concerns of LGBTQ+ customers are either ignored or simply placated? What happens when these companies allow a working community to where inclusivity is treated so flippantly? Beyond just consumers, employees are allowed to ask for more from these companies in relation to being openly progressive and inclusive. Like has been said multiple times, the industry isn't absent of "politics". People work at these companies who have concerns beyond just the financial and deal with the same transphobia, homophobia, sexism, racism and general bigotry that marginalized people outside of their workplace deal with. This is why this shit is important and has nothing to do with just "seeking attention" or "being outraged". Marginalized people don't like being angry, or outraged or "seeing bigotry everywhere". It is just a testament to the reality that we live in that these problems ARE everywhere and aren't being treated as seriously as they should be. Topics like this pop up again and again because this nonsense is ubiquitous and insidious and too many people like to live in bliss calling them absurd when they're exactly what needs to start changing for the sake of bigger things changing.