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Cyberpunk (the genre, not just 2077 specifically) uses a lot of Japanese imagery because of xenophobic fears from the 80's.

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Inugami

Inugami

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Oct 25, 2017
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(EDIT) To be clear, neither me nor the user on Twitter were in any way trying to say you can't enjoy Cyberpunk or that Cyberpunk today is racist. Only that a lot of the imagery originally came from economic fears of the time frame. Again, this is from a historically interesting point of view, not an attack on anyone or anything.




Was going through my timeline today, and I found a tweet chain that caught my interest and I thought I'd share. But before we begin, let's be clear this is NOT an attack on 2077 or even a real criticism of cyberpunk in general... just a sort of history lesson. Being born in 86, I didn't catch a lot of this subtext growing up.

It's a fairly long chain, so I'll just post some snipets, I highly recommend checking it out though.







For those that can't see the twitter posts I can sum it up as in the 80's and even early 90's there was a general societal fear in the US that Japan was becoming a unstoppable economic and cultural force and that one day would take over.

Certainly gives me a new perspective on the genre as a whole.
 
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Lant_War

Lant_War

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Jul 14, 2018
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But isn't all the lights, brands and stuff the things that people like about Cyberpunk?
 
signal

signal

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Assuming this is even true (sources where) why is it assumed that it would be done out of "fear" or "xenophobia" rather than extrapolating that a powerful Japan might continue to increase in power?

"This was meant to be scary and dystopian to 80's audiences" is there a source for this.
 
Gentlemen

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Threadreaderapp version here.

I dimly remember the "Japanese corporations buying all the land and subjugating the US" propaganda from the day but never made the connection to the dystopian imagery in Cyberpunk since I'd never been exposed to that stuff until much later, long after asian imagery had been made "cool" by the barrage of ninja and samurai characters in cartoons and movies of the period.

Rising Sun is really fucking awful tho, I remember that for sure.
 
TeenageFBI

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Well, yeah. It's a dystopia based on people's fears at the time. I appreciate how the new BladeRunner film moved away from those old themes to bring in stuff that's more appropriate for today's audiences.
 
Landford

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Japan was a behemoth in technology at the time, so it was somewhat expected for them to be at the forefront of a technology-driven dystopia.

Turns out they were partially right. Our whole electronic society lives and breathes things that are made by Asian countries.
 
Geist

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That's funny, it's the blending of cultures that appeals to me the most.
 
Grath

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I'm not assuming it's all bullshit yet (it's a few tweets from someone I never heard of), but I'm also pretty sure that for many western pioneers of cyberpunk - like Gibson and Pondsmith - it wasn't a fear or hate, it was simply that this imagery looked futuristic and cool.
 
Timbuktu

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I thought a lot of the neon and east + west imagery was also based on Hong Kong.

There's the point in a lot of these things and stories like the Expanse where you see Japanese/ Chinese everywhere but not in the protagonists or dialogue. It's all seen but not heard.
 
Sun's Resting Place

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signal said:
Assuming this is even true (sources where) why is it assumed that it would be done out of "fear" or "xenophobia" rather than extrapolating that a powerful Japan might continue to increase in power?

"This was meant to be scary and dystopian to 80's audiences" is there a source for this.
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This sort of dystopia is meant to invoke "oppression" and "unease" at an alien version of your world where your own culture is no longer dominant and foreigners have all the soft cultural power. It's not hard to see this at all. America was freaking terrified of bubble Japan.
 
dabri

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But a ton of cyberpunk stylizations were lifted directly from Japanese anime and manga like Akira. I mean just look up how many videos and articles point out how blade runner visuals were a rip off of 80s anime at the time.
If Japanese creators were responsible for the look and it's well documented that a lot of these movies and stories appropriated the look based off those sources can we still say it was due to xenophobia?
I had always heard that it was western creators seeing visuals that were completely unique to anything at the time and going,"that's futuristic!"
 
808s & Villainy

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That's not what xenopohobia means...

Dio Over Heaven said:
This sort of dystopia is meant to invoke "oppression" and "unease" at an alien version of your world where your own culture is no longer dominant and foreigners have all the soft cultural power. It's not hard to see this at all. America was freaking terrified of bubble Japan.
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It was a fear of corporations taking over not at losing cultural dominance, hence the tons of large billboards and neon signs everywhere and the "punk" part of it.
 
Gentlemen

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signal said:
Assuming this is even true (sources where) why is it assumed that it would be done out of "fear" or "xenophobia" rather than extrapolating that a powerful Japan might continue to increase in power?

"This was meant to be scary and dystopian to 80's audiences" is there a source for this.
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Click to shrink...
Japan was routinely accused of being an unfair economic partner in the 1980s, much like China is today.
 
PancakeBurglar

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Is this supposed to make me feel guilty for liking the style? I think it just looks cool and is an interesting setting to tell a story.
 
nsilvias

nsilvias

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is there an academic source for this or are we just going to believe someone on twitter?
 
Jessie

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In a way this makes me feel good about where we are today. We aren't seeing entertainment take advantage of modern day xenophobia like this anymore.

The closest thing we've had was the Heathers TV Remake taking place in a world where "minorities take over and bully straight white people," and that was canceled pretty quickly.
 
OP
OP
Inugami

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PancakeBurglar said:
Is this supposed to make me feel guilty for liking the style? I think it just looks cool and is an interesting setting to tell a story.
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Not at all. I think today we accept that it's just part of the style. No one is using Cyberpunk in their arguments against Japan or Japanese culture today. That said, I found it interesting from a historic point. Tried to make that clear in the OP, but maybe I can do a better job of it.
 
cowbanana

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To a younger me in the 80s it always made me love Japanese stuff. The neon and Japanese letters looked so cool, I wanted to go to Japan. It is news to me that its supposedly born out of xenophobia.
 
Sumio Mondo

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Akira and Ghost in the Shell?
Snatcher?
Deus Ex?
Soul Hackers?

There's plenty of examples of cyberpunk fiction that takes place in Japan from Japanese creators or from American creators that don't go near Japan.

Seems this is more likely a thing from Philip K Dick's novels/Blade Runner specifically.
 
MrWindUpBird

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Oct 28, 2017
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure that this is a really case of Xenophobia outside of Asian beauty standards maybe. I think anyone would rightfully fear a single country/entity that could take in theory take over the world or what have you. It doesn't have to be Japan, it could be literally any superpower that could actually have the means to do so.
 
Protoman200X

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That was an eye opener, as I assumed the Cyberpunk genre incorporated multiculturalism as something that will be commonplace in a future. (Not so much with North Americans being xenophobic with.... corporate Japanese takeover?)
 
signal

signal

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TeenageFBI said:
Well, yeah. It's a dystopia based on people's fears at the time. I appreciate how the new BladeRunner film moved away from those old themes to bring in stuff that's more appropriate for today's audiences.
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None if it screams "fear" to me, just a large multicultural metropolis. I did like how 2049 used a lot of Cyrillic instead just kanji like every other cyberpunk city.


Dio Over Heaven said:
This sort of dystopia is meant to invoke "oppression" and "unease" at an alien version of your world where your own culture is no longer dominant and foreigners have all the soft cultural power. It's not hard to see this at all. America was freaking terrified of bubble Japan.
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Click to shrink...
Gentlemen said:
Japan was routinely accused of being an unfair economic partner in the 1980s, much like China is today.
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I know there were fears of Japanese dominance (DAT as a consumer format failed because of US record labels IIRC) but the random usage of Japanese characters and labels in these settings always comes across as an aesthetic choice and not one meant to invoke fear. Maybe someone older than me can comment if they watched Bladerunner in the theatre and were terrified of "Oriental dominance" in the city they were seeing but sounds like nonsense.
 
Joe Shlabotnik

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I thought this was relatively self-evident but I guess I'm super old.

If you're looking for sources, try Americans Who Clearly Remember The '80s
 
PeetFeet

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I lived through the 70's and 80's, scary and dystopian? Xenophobic? What a load of bollocks, it looked cool. Still does.
 
Space Lion

Space Lion

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If we no longer think of it anymore when we see Deckard eat with chopsticks then why is it a problem if it has supposedly become slowly more non-political?
 
Sun's Resting Place

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Sumio Mondo said:
Akira and Ghost in the Shell?
Snatcher?
Deus Ex?
Soul Hackers?

There's plenty of examples of cyberpunk fiction that takes place in Japan from Japanese creators or from American creators that don't go near Japan.

Seems this is more likely a thing from Philip K Dick's novels/Blade Runner specifically.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

All of those games and anime are inspired by Blade Runner. Snatcher even straight up traces production art from Blade Runner IIRC.
 

SkyOdin

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Apr 21, 2018
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A lot of genre fiction unfortunately has a many examples of genre conceits that are rooted in racism that have been perpetuated by subsequent creators who emulate their inspirations without looking at them critically. This is a problem that also crops up in fantasy fiction pretty commonly, as well as in post-apocalyptic and horror fiction.
 
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