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WedgeX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,200
Via the Des Moines Register.

Wisconsin lost almost 700 dairy farms in 2018, an unprecedented rate of nearly two a day. Most were small operations unable to survive farm milk prices that, adjusted for inflation, were among the lowest in a half-century.

As of Feb. 1, Wisconsin had 8,046 dairy herds, down 40 percent from 10 years earlier, according to state Department of Agriculture data.

Much of Wisconsin's $88 billion farm economy hangs in the balance. Hundreds of towns across the state depend on the money that dairy farmers spend at equipment dealerships, feed mills, hardware stores, cafes and scores of other businesses.

But in late 2014, farm milk prices started to plummet. The downturn, fueled by overproduction and failing export markets, has lasted more than four years and has wiped out dairy farms from Maine to California.

In 2012, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker announced an incentive program to produce, as a state, 30 billion pounds of milk a year by 2020 — a 15 percent increase. The state offered farmers grants for business planning, facility engineering and animal nutrition. The program, "Grow Wisconsin Dairy 30x20," required them to put up their own money as well.

Despite record production every year since 2002, Walker urged farmers to step it up even more. "The reality," he said, "is the growth is not fast enough for the opportunities that are here before us."

At the same time, foreign markets for American dairy products have shrunk in response to tariffs that President Donald Trump placed on foreign steel and aluminum. Cheese shipments to China have fallen almost 65 percent, according to industry figures, and exports to Mexico are down more than 10 percent.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...ure-dairyland-crisis-agribusiness/2941496002/

Guess it's only a matter of time before people wonder why Wisconsinites wear cheeseheads.
 

Arc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,514
Maybe this is an ignorant comment, but could they not farm something else?
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
The economy of this state is so fucked, it's going to take a long ass time to fix things post-Walker
 

Deleted member 16025

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,506
Maybe this is an ignorant comment, but could they not farm something else?
It is a bit ignorant but I don't think you meant it in a mean way. The operations at these farms are set up for dairy. You can't just use those same facilities to change your product entirely.

Those tariffs are really working out, huh? Fuckin' MAGA.

I don't see what Trump has to do with this.
Read the article, dude. Tariffs are killing the exports.
 

BKatastrophe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,359
Maybe this is an ignorant comment, but could they not farm something else?
The problem is that I'm pretty sure shit isn't just interchangeable. If you build your whole business around dairy farming, imagine the costs of switching over to something else? Even that's gotta be a gamble.

Plus where would you get the income for buying the new stuff? Dairy equipment and stock wouldn't go for much because it's a poor industry right now. And based on the article these farms are having a hard enough time trying to make money just to keep the existing business going.

And then you have to consider what you'd even change over to?
 

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,236
The US has only themselves to blame. Most modern economies are smart and use a quota system so they don't farm more than the market needs.

One of the big issues of the recent NAFTA discussions is the US wants to flood the Canadian market with it's dairy products while we use a quota system and make enough for the market.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
It's ok folks. The new USMCA opens up the Canadian diary market by 3.65%, despite leaving the TPP. Master negotiator.
 

Woolley

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,420
It is a bit ignorant but I don't think you meant it in a mean way. The operations at these farms are set up for dairy. You can't just use those same facilities to change your product entirely.

Those tariffs are really working out, huh? Fuckin' MAGA.


Read the article, dude. Tariffs are killing the exports.
But prices were the falling years before Trump was president.
 

DJ_Lae

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,870
Edmonton
Sounds about right, unfortunately.

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Farm gate prices are down, though they were pretty high for a while. And compared to other countries US milk products like butter have become more expensive.

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Production has crept up every year, too, so there's an absolute glut of milk products that are not as easily sold outside the US and farmers are getting way less for it.
 

Gatti-man

Banned
Jan 31, 2018
2,359
The US has only themselves to blame. Most modern economies are smart and use a quota system so they don't farm more than the market needs.

One of the big issues of the recent NAFTA discussions is the US wants to flood the Canadian market with it's dairy products while we use a quota system and make enough for the market.
How were they supposed to anticipate president Trump starting a trade war and said trade war lasting this long? You can't anticipate presidential dumbassery.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
How were they supposed to anticipate president Trump starting a trade war and said trade war lasting this long? You can't anticipate presidential dumbassery.
By listening to him promising to do this shit on the campaign trail and voting against him because of it.

He wasn't subtle about being a racist trash-ass protectionist. And you absolutely could tell that Trump was a dumbass.
 

Karl2177

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,108
Maybe this is an ignorant comment, but could they not farm something else?
Not an ignorant question at all. When it comes to animal farming, changing animals is an incredibly costly change. When it comes to changing crops, it's less of a hit (they should be swapping crops every year to replenish the soil). Even shifting from dairy farming to beef farming (despite both being cattle, there are different breeds for each) is an expensive change.

As for my perspective, it shows how much diversifying an economy matters. California is the largest exporter of dairy in the US, but this isn't impacting the state's economy as much. Iowa is going to be in big trouble this year unless the Trump administration reverses their trade war with China. We survive off of soybean and corn exports and China has essentially shut that trade down. It's kinda ironic considering our previous governor, a Republican, is now the ambassador to China and he's stuck between helping his state and helping his party.
 

Deleted member 33887

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 20, 2017
2,109
Scott Walker doing something alarmingly short sighted? Why I never.

Even before any of the tariff nonsense, US dairy has been overproducing for a while. And it's all megafarms now, so it's just completely unrealistic to expect things to be okay for the small dairy farmer.

On the flip side, the Canadian quota system is stupid and you have to deal with things like companies trying to gouge people over bread. There's a happy medium between controlling the market and subsidizing it when it makes absolutely no sense to.
 

Horns

Member
Dec 7, 2018
2,531
I don't feel bad for those who voted for Trump and are now getting fucked by tariffs. He campaigned on fucking up trade deals. The details were light and experts said it was a bad idea. These farmers still largely voted for that lying racist. Now they need to deal with the consequences.
 

Lucky241

Member
Oct 31, 2017
751
the shores of Carcosa
FTA - "But in late 2014, farm milk prices started to plummet. The downturn, fueled by overproduction and failing export markets,"

That's 2014. That's before the tariffs. What caused exports to fall 5 years ago? Is it quality? Is France buying our butter? What about Germany or Italy?

I know myself and many others around me import butter from Europe (Ireland) because it's better quality. Perhaps Wisconsin dairy farmers should try to compete by raising quality rather than just simply yield.
 

Goldenroad

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,475
I know this is an international economic issue, but it seems like this can be a more microeconomic issue as well (ie. I go to the dairy aisle and half the cooler that used to be all dairy products is now half dairy substitutes). I just think the demand for dairy amongst adults in the Western world is declining and going to continue to decline for the forseeable future, and those type of consumer trends won't be able to be controlled by trade agreements and subsidies, at least not in the long term.
 

Deleted member 3010

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,974
The US has only themselves to blame. Most modern economies are smart and use a quota system so they don't farm more than the market needs.

One of the big issues of the recent NAFTA discussions is the US wants to flood the Canadian market with it's dairy products while we use a quota system and make enough for the market.
Even if they try, you have ads here in Quebec saying that our milk doesn't have all the shit US milk has (as counterpoint to 'You shouldn't drink milk'.) so even if they throw more our way, people likely won't buy it.
 

Stardestroyer

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,819
How were they supposed to anticipate president Trump starting a trade war and said trade war lasting this long? You can't anticipate presidential dumbassery.
I have to agree with this person. Who could have predicted that a racist moron who had no understanding of trade would start a trade war. Noone could have, even though he was saying it, but no one could have.
 

Maolfunction

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,871
Scott Walker fucking over farmers in his own state for years, causing them to produce a glut of milk products they can't easily sell for short term gains? Trump's tariffs hurting the people he promised to help? Color me shocked.
 

Froyo Love

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,503
How were they supposed to anticipate president Trump starting a trade war and said trade war lasting this long? You can't anticipate presidential dumbassery.
Even if you accept this fundamentally deranged premise that Trump's behavior was totally unexpected: the ideology of the party they voted for is "personal responsibility", i.e. it's up to you to succeed or fail, and you don't deserve any sympathy or support for failing to navigate the market. Why do they deserve sympathy for getting fucked over?
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,515
Instead of just government subsidies why don't they do something like expand WIC and give more people in need access to free dairy? It's still a subsidy, but at least it helps on more than one front.
 

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,236
How were they supposed to anticipate president Trump starting a trade war and said trade war lasting this long? You can't anticipate presidential dumbassery.

This was an issue before Trump and will be an issue after Trump. The issue is overproduction due to your lack of a quota system. Trump has just accelerated it by drying up some markets with tariffs but they've been overproducing for a long time.
 

Gatti-man

Banned
Jan 31, 2018
2,359
This was an issue before Trump and will be an issue after Trump. The issue is overproduction due to your lack of a quota system. Trump has just accelerated it by drying up some markets with tariffs but they've been overproducing for a long time.
I don't think you underand business. Low milk prices with high volume sold = profit. Even lower milk prices with lower volume sold= massive loss. It isn't some acceleration of a trend that occurred its trump literally changing the market for Dairy farmers.

No such thing as over producing if you're making a profit off what you sell. Also quotas aren't free market. And who decides who gets what quota? It's a shit system when all you need to do is export extra product.
Trump literally talked about ripping up trade agreements and upending trade partnerships and these people cheered him on.
Trump says shit every day he's alive. The guy lies and talks crap constantly. If businesses reacted to every move trump made it would cause more harm than just dairy farmers. Also large business doesn't just move on a dime. Even a year notice wouldn't be enough for farmers to change their output and remain profitable.

Trump talked about protectionism in his campaign. It shouldn't have been a surprise.

He talked about opening up trade and getting rid of other countries walls to our trade. Trump never said "I'm going to tariff countries so we have a trade war and our products get blockaded from huge trading partners killing random economies that suit those countries" come on now.

Trumps trade war caught even Wall Street by surprise. No one really thought he'd be this stupid when it came to international trade.
 
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Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
I don't think you underand business. Low milk prices with high volume sold = profit. Even lower milk prices with lower volume sold= massive loss. It isn't some acceleration of a trend that occurred its trump literally changing the market for Dairy farmers.

No such thing as over producing if you're making a profit off what you sell. Also quotas aren't free market. And who decides who gets what quota? It's a shit system when all you need to do is export extra product.
And Trump screwing this farmers over was entirely predictable. The whole "but the leopard won't eat MY face" thing was very rea.
 

Zoc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,017
On the flip side, the Canadian quota system is stupid and you have to deal with things like companies trying to gouge people over bread.

WTF? "Bread-gouging" sounds like crazy US right wing propaganda about Canada on the level of "can't choose your doctor" and "death panels".

In fact, the Canadian quota system for milk works very well. It protects farmers, keeps prices stable for consumers, and allows strict regulation of quality.
 

Froyo Love

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,503
I don't think you underand business. Low milk prices with high volume sold = profit. Even lower milk prices with lower volume sold= massive loss. It isn't some acceleration of a trend that occurred its trump literally changing the market for Dairy farmers.

No such thing as over producing if you're making a profit off what you sell. Also quotas aren't free market. And who decides who gets what quota? It's a shit system when all you need to do is export extra product.
It isn't free market to massively subsidize dairy production either. U.S. agriculture isn't a free market system and shouldn't be.
 

Gatti-man

Banned
Jan 31, 2018
2,359
And Trump screwing this farmers over was entirely predictable. The whole "but the leopard won't eat MY face" thing was very rea.
Eh no it really wasn't. And even if the farmers had predicted trump would do this they still wouldn't have been able to change their business in time for it. Lots of booty talk in this thread.

Also trump didn't choose Dairy. Other countries did bc farmers skew conservative so they are trying to sway trump by messing with his voters. Luckily for trump he doesn't give a shit about any Americans so it's ineffective.