considering everything about tlou is focusing on immersion and its hud being as minimalistic as possible, i highly doubt it, at least in the story mode.
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Damage Numbers in games. I hate them
- Thread starter boontobias
- Start date
considering everything about tlou is focusing on immersion and its hud being as minimalistic as possible, i highly doubt it, at least in the story mode.
Me too. I always turn them off the first chance I get, if the game allows it. Sometimes, I'd even go as far as installing mods to get rid of them.
I just have a general dislike of numbers indicating pretty much anything in games, since my brain goes into a mode where every number matters more than life and must be optimized to the max.
This is a strange complaint since numbers are used to inform the player of what is actually happening on screen. Without numbers you could only guess as to what is the truth and it becomes confusing for everyone involved in the current challenge.
Destiny is a good example of this where bosses usually have phases that can end poorly if the damage output is too low. So to understand what your team has to correct there is visual representation of the damage in the form of numbers. Player number 5 does only 10k damage when others are doing 25k. Ok got it, let's gather and look at what's wrong with the current setup for this particular player.
Of course this will also lead to unnecessary competition but all in all it's needed to plan your approach. The system gives you the facts and you deal with it from there.
Destiny is a good example of this where bosses usually have phases that can end poorly if the damage output is too low. So to understand what your team has to correct there is visual representation of the damage in the form of numbers. Player number 5 does only 10k damage when others are doing 25k. Ok got it, let's gather and look at what's wrong with the current setup for this particular player.
Of course this will also lead to unnecessary competition but all in all it's needed to plan your approach. The system gives you the facts and you deal with it from there.
It's also not really necessary when you know all targets are going to go down after a few well-placed bullets or slices with a blade.
I don't like 'em in my action games. They're typically a sign of a lack of diegetic visual feedback. and that the HP amounts are over-inflated, especially in shooters. I don't mind them in slow-paced games where careful, strategic decisions are required though.
And here I thought monster hunter needs to go a step further and add lifebars.
I'm all for immersion but seeing numbers fly up makes a game more exciting for me. It's also the best way to know how effective you are.
I agree some games don't need it (when a life bar is enough) but I can't think of a game where not having it makes the game better. Of course this is talking about games where you deal damage.
I'm all for immersion but seeing numbers fly up makes a game more exciting for me. It's also the best way to know how effective you are.
I agree some games don't need it (when a life bar is enough) but I can't think of a game where not having it makes the game better. Of course this is talking about games where you deal damage.
Any game that's stat/gear based benefits from easy to read feedback. Damage numbers are that. A life bar is that.
Even in pure action games some of the hidden stats could be useful to see for learning purposes. Like damage drop with increasing range, headshot area size etc.
Some of this can be done with animation but especially if lots of thing are happening that may not be enough to actually teach the player.
Of course, if i'm playing a heavily story based campaign with a bit of shooting gallery sprinkled in, idc about how much damage i'm doing.
Even in pure action games some of the hidden stats could be useful to see for learning purposes. Like damage drop with increasing range, headshot area size etc.
Some of this can be done with animation but especially if lots of thing are happening that may not be enough to actually teach the player.
Of course, if i'm playing a heavily story based campaign with a bit of shooting gallery sprinkled in, idc about how much damage i'm doing.
They do have that side-effect, there's no doubting that. I get satisfaction from seeing them in two ways: they allow me to see how much damage I'm able to currently do and to visualise — so long as they're used alongside a health bar — chipping away at an enemy's health.
I'm playing Devil May Cry 5 and I wish that had damage numbers / health bars on enemies — without the need to lock on.
Not only that, it needs to be in comc-book themed. Like when you punch someone, "Pow!" should pop up.
The only thing damage numbers are useful for is seeing if I'm actually damaging an enemy or not. The numbers themselves couldn't matter less and could easily be replaced by a basic 0/.5/1/2 effectiveness pop-up system in most games.
Is there a word for "something you never miss until it's there, and you never wish if it was never there to begin with"? Because that's what damage numbers are.
I don't give a fuck about them in games and would absolutely hate it if it was in every game; I don't give a fuck until they're in the games I play. Then I would hate it if it's removed from that game. Whenever a game adds damage number, it's usually not a half-assed decision, and almost all of the time it's a good decision for that particular game.
However, when you have sponge enemies, it's when damage counters have gone too far. At that point, give me beat-em-ups style colored boss health's (some games like Destiny get away with it by having shield bar and then health bar).
I absolutely despise it in The Division. It's just useless numbers flashing in your face with no feedback to get from it. The Division 2 unintentionally fixes this (and more) by reducing sponge enemies. On the other hand, It's great in games like Apex Legends as you know exactly how much damage you've done, you can estimate how many more bullets it'll take to kill the enemies, not how many more magazines.
I don't give a fuck about them in games and would absolutely hate it if it was in every game; I don't give a fuck until they're in the games I play. Then I would hate it if it's removed from that game. Whenever a game adds damage number, it's usually not a half-assed decision, and almost all of the time it's a good decision for that particular game.
However, when you have sponge enemies, it's when damage counters have gone too far. At that point, give me beat-em-ups style colored boss health's (some games like Destiny get away with it by having shield bar and then health bar).
I absolutely despise it in The Division. It's just useless numbers flashing in your face with no feedback to get from it. The Division 2 unintentionally fixes this (and more) by reducing sponge enemies. On the other hand, It's great in games like Apex Legends as you know exactly how much damage you've done, you can estimate how many more bullets it'll take to kill the enemies, not how many more magazines.
not gonna happen as long as publishers are still keen on the idea of rpg elements increasing engagements
In action games, they're a cheap and lazy way of providing feedback that could, and in my opinion generally should, be handled through other means. To boot, their inclusion is increasingly cynical, and not unlike mechanics like lootboxes. But then the shlooter genre holds negative interest for me to begin with, so I'm not playing the kind of games where this sort of steady feedback might actually be preferable to the alternative.
Like most things, there's examples of well implemented and poorly implemented (or as people have pointed out, games that don't need them relying on them to graft some sense of RPG-esque progress onto themselves.)
I personally love seeing damage numbers in games that are built-around the idea of progression - I recall when I first started Diablo III turning on all the health bars and damage numbers and being like awwww yeah that's the stuff
I personally love seeing damage numbers in games that are built-around the idea of progression - I recall when I first started Diablo III turning on all the health bars and damage numbers and being like awwww yeah that's the stuff
As long as they are toggled, I'm fine. I would probably turn them on when experimenting with a build or testing vulnerabilities, but other than that I really dont enjoy seeing them, especially in action games.
Seeing stuff pop up like 12.7K or 14.3K in Borderlands 2 was just lol
Seeing stuff pop up like 12.7K or 14.3K in Borderlands 2 was just lol
I'm not keen on them. Sometimes they're necessary, though even then I tend to think better designs could convey the needed information better - simply different numbers shouldn't be the only sign that resistances are making your attacks ineffective.
For outright RPGs I'd rather have a combat log at the bottom, though that's not really in style nowadays.
For outright RPGs I'd rather have a combat log at the bottom, though that's not really in style nowadays.
Just a pet peeve of mine when posters bring up dopamine. Everything "fun" or "satisfying" gives you a dopamine hit. It's a completely meaningless thing to say and there's less pretentious and more informed/specific ways to describe game design than to invoke neurotransmitters, which have no real-world relevance to gamers.
But yeah, damage numbers/floating combat text are a fantastic tool for player feedback. I don't think they're "cheap" at all, and most games *should* give you a way to them off if they're not vital to gameplay. I'm a big fan of Dota 2's implementation, which treats it like a particle and gives it gravity and X/Y acceleration. It was the big inspiration for me when we redid League of Legends' combat text back in 2012.
People have some interesting ideas about immersion. A lack of damage numbers or other explicit under-the-hood info can lead to a more aesthetically cohesive experience (among other things), which can, depending on the context of the game, make it more engaging ("immersive") to me. It's not some binary thing, and it's not a universal preference, but I get the impression those joking about "ruined immersion" aren't really looking for good faith discussion here.
One of the most interesting implementations I've seen is Tekken 7. It exists at a character customization level, as a replacement for standard hit "explosion" effects. Being a character customization thing, this means your opponent will HAVE to see them if you've equipped them lol.
One of the most interesting implementations I've seen is Tekken 7. It exists at a character customization level, as a replacement for standard hit "explosion" effects. Being a character customization thing, this means your opponent will HAVE to see them if you've equipped them lol.
I used to hate them too, but not because of "immersion".
When I was a kid, I used to not like RPGs because whenever I looked at those big-digit numbers, I thought it was confusing and random. It was why Paper Mario really resonated with me because the damage count was super simplified so that you knew exactly how much you were doing and taking. Damage numbers were mostly single-digit, barely dipping into the 10s. The battles were also very interactive with the action commands and stuff, but that's going off-topic.
Nowadays, I enjoy seeing giant numbers, and I've played a variety of RPGs and other games since then.
When I was a kid, I used to not like RPGs because whenever I looked at those big-digit numbers, I thought it was confusing and random. It was why Paper Mario really resonated with me because the damage count was super simplified so that you knew exactly how much you were doing and taking. Damage numbers were mostly single-digit, barely dipping into the 10s. The battles were also very interactive with the action commands and stuff, but that's going off-topic.
Nowadays, I enjoy seeing giant numbers, and I've played a variety of RPGs and other games since then.
Given the way Horde works in Gears 5, I think the numbers are reasonable.
They have the card system, which gives you more stats (damage can be one of those stats), as well as the individual in-match progression that can also give the player more damage. As a matter of fact, I wish we had access to more numbers in Gears 5 for Horde specifically.
If I have a headshot perk that gives 20% more damage on a sniper and I know that a sniper headshot does ~2k damage, I can figure out what exactly that 20% amounts to. Without damage numbers, I wouldn't know.
Another non-damage example: Jack gets more power from putting extra guns into the forge. If I don't have a baseline for how much power he gets his team on a per-gun basis, I don't really have a point of reference for how much more he gets that is immediately obvious. Since I do, I can very quickly figure out the breakeven point for the structure and figure out whether or not it's worth it for my team. It's a huge positive to have these point of references.
I dunno, I see it as a total positive given how the mode works.
They have the card system, which gives you more stats (damage can be one of those stats), as well as the individual in-match progression that can also give the player more damage. As a matter of fact, I wish we had access to more numbers in Gears 5 for Horde specifically.
If I have a headshot perk that gives 20% more damage on a sniper and I know that a sniper headshot does ~2k damage, I can figure out what exactly that 20% amounts to. Without damage numbers, I wouldn't know.
Another non-damage example: Jack gets more power from putting extra guns into the forge. If I don't have a baseline for how much power he gets his team on a per-gun basis, I don't really have a point of reference for how much more he gets that is immediately obvious. Since I do, I can very quickly figure out the breakeven point for the structure and figure out whether or not it's worth it for my team. It's a huge positive to have these point of references.
I dunno, I see it as a total positive given how the mode works.
I think they probably stick out like a sore thumb in some games/genres but those I don't usually play/don't interest me for other reasons.
If the game's underlying mechanics relies on statistics under the players control (different armor/weapons/etc.) then at least as an option they should be displayed, if only as an aid to help with build construction.
Other games are obviously still built on statistics under the hood, but if the player is never presented with any then I don't think damage numbers are necessary in this case.
If the game's underlying mechanics relies on statistics under the players control (different armor/weapons/etc.) then at least as an option they should be displayed, if only as an aid to help with build construction.
Other games are obviously still built on statistics under the hood, but if the player is never presented with any then I don't think damage numbers are necessary in this case.
