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rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,003
Considering just how many people in games press are working for next to nothing, I guess you get what you pay for.
To the average journalist that has to push out 30 articles a month to get something resembling a paycheck, a statement from Judd/Dangen/DDMA is "enough".

It's not just a case of it being quicker to uncritically rebroadcast things, it's that sites are terrified of being perceived as having any sort of slant on disputes like these, especially in the event that they misinterpret a nuanced situation and come out looking like fools, so they just don't do it--they'll offer an extremely broad generalization of the dispute with pull-quotes from both sides and that'll be that.

I think this situation demonstrates that there's a lot people can do without any of those outlets anyway. People in Judd/Dangen's circles are finding success pushing him out, I'm confident they'll be able to keep them out, too.
 

dwarn

Member
Dec 10, 2019
12
I was one of those posters who read both the original Medium post and Dangen's rebuttal and, without personally knowing anyone involved on either side, thought their explanations seemed reasonable. I never bought Ben Judd's half-hearted attempt of discrediting the accusations against himself but I fell for some of their smearing of you. On the surface, it seemed like mistakes were made on both ends and the timing of your Medium post made me question your motives. That was obviously wrong and your second Medium post made that more than clear. Most of the posters in this thread were smart enough to see through their lies, I wasn't. I'm very sorry if my post caused you hurt and want to directly apologize for that.

Thank you. I appreciate the apology. To your credit, I was in severe physical pain at the time, so practically any less than 100% supportive reaction towards me got under my skin. After I'd allowed myself to go back on the pain medications I was supposed to be on and rested for a few days, and after I finally even read Dangen's rebuttal (I'd only heard other people's reactions) I had a better grasp of how Dangen had managed to convince people of their version of my character with cherry picked screenshots and flat-out lies. I was able to focus on the second Medium post a little better and clarified a lot of the unfortunate omissions I had made in the first Medium post.

A lot of the omissions I had made in the first Medium post were either out of respect to various developers' medical conditions, less than concrete evidence or lack of access to evidence, or quite simply a lack of time. I'm especially embarrassed I second guessed myself and didn't notice I was referencing the outdated US-Japan tax treaty, so I can understand people assuming I must've gotten other things wrong as well. (I think I even made a mistake in the second Medium post and called it the 2013 instead of the 2003 tax treaty... lol.)

Without having read Dangen's rebuttal, at the time it felt like people had looked at all the "evidence" and sincerely believed me to be petty and conniving, and I didn't think I would have the ability to convince anybody otherwise. I felt like I had poured the last of myself into the first Medium post, and that it would always be as easy as Dangen just making up anything they wanted to discredit me. When I finally analyzed Dangen's rebuttal and knew I had access to concrete evidence to the contrary of all their claims, I was a lot more confident.

I don't really blame anybody if they find what I did unprofessional, and I readily admit I had trouble keeping my tone more "gracious". I obviously find DE Dev's blunt criticisms of Dangen's treatment of him completely justified, and I very much accept that many people would disagree with that. But it upset me to be criticized for things I never did or said. I'm glad that my second Medium post seems to have clarified matters and I hope telling the truth will continue to be the right course of action.

Would it be worthwhile to tag any and all indie devs that had their game published by Dangen if I make a tweet linking to dwarn's post?

Pretty much all of the devs under Dangen are aware of what's going on, and have been aware of Ben Judd's abusive history since Alex tweeted about it back in August. I think Dangen may have assumed the spread of discontent with them among devs could only possibly have come from me and the DE team, but in reality many devs were already unhappy with Dangen well before DE even had payment problems. DE just happens to have been "first out of gate"... and we also happen to be the team least likely to take poor treatment quietly. Many devs had begged me for help and advice on terminating their contracts well before the Medium posts, but most have gone silent and appear completely terrified of retaliation against themselves should they speak out in support of me.

There's actually a lot more information other devs gave to me that I could not disclose for their protection, and some devs have taken to similar anonymous "guerilla" actions against Dangen as well. I know of no developer who is happy with Dangen and wanting to continue their relationship after their current contracts are up, and I know of many developers who, after I reviewed their contract, I frankly admitted they would be best off remaining silent and compliant until their current contract obligations were completed.

In short, it's probably best to respect other devs' decisions to remain publicly silent on the matter.

Yeah I would not be surprised to see a Schreier exposé.

I was told that Jason Schreier is aware of this story but does not have the resources to pursue it. I e-mailed him myself as well, and I did not receive any response.



This has got to be absolutely brutal for an indie dev.

To clarify, this has already been the case since roughly August. We are merely announcing the situation clearly now as there's been a lot of public confusion about whether or not Protoculture is receiving profits from sales of DE on Switch/Steam at this time.

* * *

Edit: Also, in general, thank you to everyone for your continued support and kind words.
 
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datschge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
623
That Gamasutra report does link to the warning archives, by the way, although it makes no effort to summarize or pull apart any of the accusations therein. Maybe they weren't linked at all before and they edited them in, I don't know.
Well, ain't that great? The original version of that Gamasutra "report" did really not link to the warning archives.
Why is Gamasutra allowing article edits after the fact without notes of such?
(I originally thought you are kidding me, then started second guessing myself before finding an archived version. I guess I better only post archived links from now on.)
 
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LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,091
I guess the main thing left to do is to pay developers any outstanding money owed, and to release developers from contracts they would otherwise be bound to against their will, should they so choose.
 

datschge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
623
I guess the main thing left to do is to pay developers any outstanding money owed, and to release developers from contracts they would otherwise be bound to against their will, should they so choose.
Dangen may as well dissolve after that. Might actually the best solution to all this:
Pretty much all of the devs under Dangen are aware of what's going on, and have been aware of Ben Judd's abusive history since Alex tweeted about it back in August. I think Dangen may have assumed the spread of discontent with them among devs could only possibly have come from me and the DE team, but in reality many devs were already unhappy with Dangen well before DE even had payment problems. DE just happens to have been "first out of gate"... and we also happen to be the team least likely to take poor treatment quietly. Many devs had begged me for help and advice on terminating their contracts well before the Medium posts, but most have gone silent and appear completely terrified of retaliation against themselves should they speak out in support of me.

There's actually a lot more information other devs gave to me that I could not disclose for their protection, and some devs have taken to similar anonymous "guerilla" actions against Dangen as well. I know of no developer who is happy with Dangen and wanting to continue their relationship after their current contracts are up, and I know of many developers who, after I reviewed their contract, I frankly admitted they would be best off remaining silent and compliant until their current contract obligations were completed.

In short, it's probably best to respect other devs' decisions to remain publicly silent on the matter.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,891
I guess the main thing left to do is to pay developers any outstanding money owed, and to release developers from contracts they would otherwise be bound to against their will, should they so choose.

They need to make damn sure everyone has their money. At this point, whatever the holdup is, they need to expedite the procedure. Even if that means more money out-of-pocket for them.

I also agree that they need to release everyone who wants out from their contracts. There has been too much shady shit going on. Developers shouldn't be bound to a publisher they have a hostile relationship with. Especially since that hostility is something that Dangen earned.

Though I doubt any of this will happen...
 

PtM

Banned
Dec 7, 2017
3,582
Again, the story's being covered in a reductive, misleading way that overwhelmingly benefits Dangen and Judd but no part of me thinks outlets are covering the story in this manner due to fear of reprisal from DDMA--like, DDMA's overlap with the games press is next to nil and I'd wager most writers don't even know who they are, much less what they do or who they employ. They're not scared or consciously covering for anyone, they're just bad at what they do.

That Gamasutra report does link to the warning archives, by the way, although it makes no effort to summarize or pull apart any of the accusations therein. Maybe they weren't linked at all before and they edited them in, I don't know.
vg247 put a little more effort into it. Don't have the link on me right now.

 
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LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,091
Yeah. I mean if Dangen want to actually repair their reputation, they should be paying devs immediately and letting people out of contracts.

If they don't care about repairing their reputation, then I guess it doesn't really matter (in terms of what steps they take next, obviously it does matter to the devs involved).
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,091
I asked these questions of the interim CEO, might I suggest those who are on twitter ask the same of him



Kind of astonishing to me that he is supposedly the CEO of Dangen but as far as I can tell hasn't put out any public statements on these or any other related subjects.
 

rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,003
Why would they? They haven't admitted to doing anything wrong. It's right there in their statement, "we think our rebuttal is sufficient" and then a call for people to send them invoices or whatever, as if that's the sole barrier between the devs and their money.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,091
Main reason I can think of why they would do it would be because they want to salvage their reputation. I assume that's why Judd is gone.
 

Deleted member 9100

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
I asked these questions of the interim CEO, might I suggest those who are on twitter ask the same of him



Kind of astonishing to me that he is supposedly the CEO of Dangen but as far as I can tell hasn't put out any public statements on these or any other related subjects.


Not astonishing to me at all that they haven't. The company seems extremely mismanaged and barely getting by.

If they offered to let any devs leave who wanted to, their business would be done. For a lot of these devs, dangen has already done work on their side (localization, marketing, etc.) and are hoping to recoup the costs and then some through royalties. If they let any dev who wants out of their contract, they'll have nothing to show for their work they did on that dev's game and will be giving up revenue. That would likely mean the end of the company.

I am fully against Dangen and completely support the devs and Writer of the medium articles, but I'm not shocked at all they haven't done that. Especially since it's much less likely now that Ben Judd would put more money into the company if they're struggling.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,091
I struggle to see how they can publicly state that Judd's conduct was so bad that required him to leave the company, but also that devs should just shut up and accept it because they've no plans to undo the damage caused by Judd.

Do they really expect people to buy games from them given this failure to do right by their devs?

I don't think deliberately tarnishing your reputation beyond repair is a good way to run a business.

If that are broke and cannot pay, they should at least let those devs free to self publish or sign with another publisher. They should do this anyway, but especially so if developers haven't been paid what they're owed.
 

dwarn

Member
Dec 10, 2019
12
Digital Development Management (DDM) has dismissed Ben Judd as Partner, Executive VP of DDM Japan. These actions were initiated by DDM as a direct result of the recent, serious allegations made against Ben. DDM takes workplace conduct and client confidentiality very seriously. DDM has now restructured its leadership team to address and accommodate the company's ongoing workload and client representation needs.

I'll see when the full thing drops (supposedly Monday), but I get the feeling DDM didn't give a single shit about Ben's sexual harassment stuff and mostly started getting blowback for Ben's NDA spilling habit. I kind of expected this, which is why I included all the NDA breaches he made to begin with, but even I'm a little surprised that it came to be this effective.

I had even more NDA stories Ben told me, but they either have already become public knowledge (Google Stadia) or frankly I had kind of started to ignore Ben whenever he started NDA storytime so I couldn't even remember the details. I do remember pretty clearly all the times he claimed two companies hated each other, especially how many times he brought up companies hating each other for withholding tax related reasons.

It makes me wonder how many of these soured relationships are actually a result of Ben's poor interpretation and bad communication, similar to what happened with FK and Nintendo. His own Discord username is "better than nothing" after his very famous interpretation fail where he inserted his own opinion about Mighty No. 9 as if it was Inafune's, causing a heavy drop to Inafune's reputation in the West. Many of the DDM deals Ben was on seem to be famous examples of mismanagement and bad communication between Japanese and Western studios as well.

But, that would be my own conjecture. I've done negotiations with other devs with other publishers before, and I've always been struck by how most publishers seem to be staffed primarily by mindless middlemen who have trouble thinking for themselves or even pushing e-mails around in a timely manner. This glut of frat boy bros drinking together and having a good time gossiping and flirting at game conventions as their primary method of "doing business" seems to be the rule, not the exception. Unfortunately, especially Nintendo Switch publishing access is completely obtuse and is the primary reason indie devs feel they have to kowtow to these perceived gatekeepers. Many would-be game developers and players have no idea about "how the sausage is made" in this sense and assume that access to Switch publishing is as easy as signing up.

I've seen so much abuse and exploitation already in my short time in this industry, and even now it pains me to have to keep secret all these stories that aren't mine to tell, that no one would believe me about because the names involved are often beloved "darlings" of the industry. I had to pick my battles, but I hope the fall from grace I've managed to inflict upon Ben Judd serves as warning to others like him.

You cannot compel a developer who you've already robbed everything from to give a shit about "NDA" or being blacklisted or being sued. I told Ben this frankly, and I suppose he took this as an empty threat from a scared girl rather than an honest statement of fact. He engineered a situation so vile that I couldn't stomach it to stay silent. Maybe bullying and threatening and slander works in AAA, but I hope indie developers realize how much power they have precisely because they have nothing to lose. We have direct access to players, the true source of our power and support. Most indie devs are afraid of being "blacklisted"... I ultimately decided I don't even want to work with any company or person who is primarily afraid of the truth of what they've done behind closed doors coming to light.

I guess the main thing left to do is to pay developers any outstanding money owed, and to release developers from contracts they would otherwise be bound to against their will, should they so choose.

This is fairly unlikely to happen without the company going bankrupt. If Dangen is continuing operations, there's a 100% chance Ben Judd has not pulled his initial investment out of the company and that Ben has remained as the primary investor and beneficiary of Dangen Entertainment's profits. Continuing to support Dangen Entertainment, even if Dan Stern makes good on their business obligations to their developers, is still supporting Ben Judd financially.

He told me he invested 300k of his own money. At the time just prior to DE's release, he claimed the company had just managed to become profitable due to Witch's House, with roughly 100k in extra profit. However, their basic operating costs were roughly 20k a month. Now that DDM has fired him, he will have to pay rent on that office, which was originally DDM's, so I will guess an additional 5k of rent will be added to their operating costs.

They bleed 300k a year just to keep the lights on and their own staff paid. What they took from DE was barely half a month's worth of expenses, which is why from their perspective it mattered so little to them.

They profited roughly 50k off of DE. I'm going to guess Minoria sold 30k units so far, roughly 400k minus Steam's cut. Disc Creatures, 20k. Bug Fables, 200k. BF had 25k expenses just for the Japanese localization. I'm not sure about the others, but let's not even bother calculating their full localization costs.

Dangen started with 400k this year, Ben's initial investment + 100k. They lost 265k this year from salary and localization expenses. They gained 620k from game sales, but roughly 70% of that is owed to the developers, so they only truly "have" 180k. They took 50k from DE.

So they're back at 365k. They very likely lost profit, and I haven't included full localization costs, devkit rentals, porting, buying Slack archives, legal/PR, any funding they've actually given up front to any developers. (They may also have more profits from other games, but typically most of a game's profits occur within the release year.)

If Ben takes out his investment and is truly no longer involved with the company, they maybe have 65k left. This is less than 3 months of operating costs.

Considering the character and business sense of the people involved, I assume Ben will keep his money in the company and they will slowly bleed to death hoping to strike it big with Switch releases in 2020. I don't know if the consumer base will realize that Ben Judd will ultimately still profit from Dangen sales.

The truly "sensible" business decision would be to lay off almost all staff (only Dan Stern, Dan Luffey, and Sal the porting specialist particularly pull their weight) and probably at this point rebrand under a different name hoping to god that will be enough to remove the taint associated with the "Dangen" name. But considering they are still keeping Nayan around, they are clearly prioritizing their mental image of a publishing company: good ol' boys drinking and having fun streaming awesome video games and sometimes talking about comic books and movies... rather than a profitable and sensible business model that prioritizes developer support and sound investment.

* * *

Apologies I keep having so much to say. I know a lot of what I say may come off as empty conjecture, but I think the majority of the public and even many developers and publishers don't have a good grasp of the basic cashflow problems at hand here and wanted to provide what I believe to be sound information to the discussion.
 

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,117
Apologies I keep having so much to say. I know a lot of what I say may come off as empty conjecture, but I think the majority of the public and even many developers and publishers don't have a good grasp of the basic cashflow problems at hand here and wanted to provide what I believe to be sound information to the discussion.
No worries. Your hard work and sacrifice helped to out a predatory sack of garbage. Alex, the DE/FK devs, and everyone else who was hurt by Ben Judd's actions owe you a huge debt of gratitude.

Also, your insight is greatly appreciated. I've learned a ton about indie publisher/developer relations in your "warning" articles.
 

Deleted member 9100

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
I struggle to see how they can publicly state that Judd's conduct was so bad that required him to leave the company, but also that devs should just shut up and accept it because they've no plans to undo the damage caused by Judd.

Do they really expect people to buy games from them given this failure to do right by their devs?

I don't think deliberately tarnishing your reputation beyond repair is a good way to run a business.

If that are broke and cannot pay, they should at least let those devs free to self publish or sign with another publisher. They should do this anyway, but especially so if developers haven't been paid what they're owed.

Judd didn't leave the company. They removed him from the website and maybe he's no longer "CEO", but he's the main owner of the business. There was no announcement of his ownership stake being bought out or transferred, so he still benefits from any income the company makes.

They do expect people to buy games from them in the future. This story unfortunately hasn't blown up too much outside this forum. I've only seen one or two websites cover it and the medium posts were deleted. Their hope is that it just blows over and people continue buying their games and have no idea about this.

Id never hear of dangen before this, but from reading about them it seems like they have the Japanese indie market cornered. So even developers who are aware of their reputation won't have many other options available for publishers.

Again, I am completely against dangen and disgusted by what I read in the medium articles and completely support the writer of those. But I'm just giving my thoughts on why they're doing what they're currently doing. Releasing developers from their contracts without requiring any "release payment" just isn't going to happen. Dangen has likely sunk a bunch of money into these projects (localization, marketing, etc.) with the hope to get that money back from royalties. If they cut off their future revenue by giving up these royalties and can no longer rely on Ben Judd to give them more cash, the business will be bankrupt very soon. All they can do is try to keep the contracts they have, hope this blows over and try to recover their costs through royalty agreements.

Apologies I keep having so much to say. I know a lot of what I say may come off as empty conjecture, but I think the majority of the public and even many developers and publishers don't have a good grasp of the basic cashflow problems at hand here and wanted to provide what I believe to be sound information to the discussion.

No apologies necessary. I'm sorry for what you had to go through and glad you were finally able to speak out. I read through both articles and they were truly eye opening. I found the behind the scene details you laid out fascinating, while at the same time being disgusted by the way Dangen and Ben Judd acted. I hope everything works out for you and I'm glad you were able to find support on this board. Hopefully the story gets picked up more in the near future.
 
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rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,003
Main reason I can think of why they would do it would be because they want to salvage their reputation. I assume that's why Judd is gone.

Judd's gone (to whatever dubious extent) because his conduct was by far the most contentious and widely-spread of all the accusations leveled against the company, and it behooves them to continue framing the conversation as if every accusation of wrongdoing was primarily or solely attributable to Judd's presence because then they can pretend getting rid of Judd is a solution to all their problems.

Again, they're not going to publicly talk about how they intend to deal with aggrieved developers because they're not willing to admit to or acknowledge any sort of substantial culpability on their part. Yes, it's a transparently shitty way to respond; no, I don't expect anything else from them.

I also suspect the company's at a point where they can't afford to relinquish games to developers or pay what they owe, in which case they won't publicly commit to such reparations because they can't and don't intend to follow through.

Beyond everything else... talk is cheap. I don't want to hear from Dangen anymore. If the developers and other aggrieved parties want to tell me they've reached a satisfactory agreement with Dangen then fine, I'll buy that, but Dangen's own word ain't worth shit, and I think even they recognize their only way out of this hole is to just shut up and let their actions speak for themselves.
 

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,117
Id never hear of dangen before this, but from reading about them it seems like they have the Japanese indie market cornered. So even developers who are aware of their reputation won't have many other options available for publishers.
Hardly.
Playism, Degica, Henteko Doujin, and countless other publishers work with the Japanese indie market. Players and developers alike have better options available to them.
 

Deleted member 9100

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
Hardly.
Playism, Degica, Henteko Doujin, and countless other publishers work with the Japanese indie market. Players and developers alike have better options available to them.

That's good to hear. I wasn't familiar at all with the Japanese indie scene prior to this and had never heard of Dangen or any of the above companies. But I'm glad to hear that indie devs wanting to publish in Japan have alternatives and I'm hoping they'll do their research in the future and go with one of the alternatives.
 
Oct 27, 2017
399
dwarn dirtbagboyfriend I just want to say thanks for your efforts to prevent others from being exploited, deceived and victimized by these people, personally or professionally, despite the personal cost. You have spared someone the grief, stress, and health damage that you have endured by making it possible to find this information. That's making a difference, and it is deeply appreciated. We shouldn't live in a world where people need to get a fact-sheet about the "open secret" creeps who are in their professional circle... it's really sad.

I hope there will be real impact on their business and influence, especially given how they seem to be playing the shell-game for PR purposes now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
Thanks for the continued insights, dwarn.

It makes me wonder how many of these soured relationships are actually a result of Ben's poor interpretation and bad communication, similar to what happened with FK and Nintendo. His own Discord username is "better than nothing"
Also, goddamn, what a ""shining"" example of self awareness
 

Arm Van Dam

self-requested ban
Banned
Mar 30, 2019
5,951
Illinois
It took a while for me to read up on everything, but holy shit I hope Ben Judd gets blacklisted from the industry and Dangen (assuming they survive) should just pay everyone who were owed and grant those who requested to get out of their contracts.

I thank dirtbagboyfriend and dwarn for the courage to come out
 

dwarn

Member
Dec 10, 2019
12
contract_bankruptcy.PNG

TERMINATION. Either Party may terminate this Agreement upon written notice if the other Party fails to pay its debts as its debts become due, becomes insolvent, files or has filed against it a petition under any bankruptcy law (which, if involuntary, is unresolved after sixty (60) calendar days), proposes any dissolution, liquidation, composition, financial reorganization, or recapitalization with creditors, makes an assignment or trust mortgage for the benefit of the creditors, or a receiver trustee, custodian, or similar agent is appointed or takes possession with respect to any property or business of such Party.

In plain speak, if Dangen fails to pay its debts, goes bankrupt, or "reorganizes" any of its assets (so, if Ben Judd truly hands the company wholly over to Dan Stern, or they refinance with another creditor) then pretty much every developer under Dangen has right to terminate their agreements with Dangen.

I thought I remembered such a clause in the event of Dangen's bankruptcy or restructuring, and just checked. This is a standard clause in every Dangen contract.

To add to this, there's a loophole in almost all Dangen contracts that allows developers to continue to use the Dangen localization without paying Dangen any more than 20% of their profits, OR until Dangen's publisher costs have been paid off. There are many developers who were told to load up on localization/publisher costs that would be impossible to pay off; under this loophole, you need not even worry about paying back costs or giving up on Dangen's localization/port of your game.

I don't think most developers understand their rights or particularly understand their contracts. Perhaps this information should be disseminated to the other developers somehow; I wouldn't be able to do it myself.

The takeaway is that either Ben Judd is truly stepping away and all Dangen developers automatically have the option to leave Dangen in such event, or Ben Judd is not actually stepping away and their press release was only for show.

I'm glad any information I've been able to provide has been educational. I've felt shy to spread "contract law for dummies" information outside of private conversation on the chance I provide incorrect advice, but I'm starting to think slightly incorrect advice is better than literally no advice. I don't know why we keep these basic components of our contracts secret... it only isolates developers from each other and allows publishers to prey on lack of information and knowledge. All NDA contracts allow for explaining your circumstances to friends, family, and counsel for legal advice as well.

Letting yourself be taken advantage of only emboldens these predators and makes the next victim's life that much harder. Every dollar they steal from you demonstrably has gone to them using it to suppress and threaten your fellow developer. Stop feeding the monster and fight back, if not for yourselves, then for future would-be victims.

...is what I want to say. I can't force anyone to put themselves at risk, so I've tried not to be ungracious when developers let fear overtake them. In the first place, this industry shouldn't be so full of bad actors that one even need to learn about all this shit on top of just getting a game finished. But I hope my warnings ring clear: the industry is full of this. Protect yourselves and be ready to fight for yourselves and each other.
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,047
I feel like this thread should be stickied with how much information is being taken down or 404'd i plan on spreading the word myself as much as possible.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,475
Hardly.
Playism, Degica, Henteko Doujin, and countless other publishers work with the Japanese indie market. Players and developers alike have better options available to them.

Well, from DW's first article:

The CEO of Playism is, in Ben's words, "a cheap asshole" who forced Nayan and Dan Stern (another Dangen employee) to sleep in net cafes instead of allowing them to sleep in proper accomodations on business trips. He brought this up to explain why he always made sure to accomodate people in proper hotel rooms when I requested funds for my stay at Bitsummit 2019.

Of course given it's Ben saying it it might need to be taken with a massive grain of salt. This article is honestly the first time I'd heard playism's name mentioned since when they first started up their DDL site, so I've not really heard anything about them at all in years positive or negative.
 

OnionKnight

Member
Nov 23, 2019
18
Lordran
Man I can't believe Dan Stern is already doubling down on Dangen not having done anything wrong, after everything that's happened. I can't wait to see what his official statement looks like. Thanks for sticking it to him in that twitter thread LewieP
 
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dwarn

Member
Dec 10, 2019
12
I feel like this thread should be stickied with how much information is being taken down or 404'd i plan on spreading the word myself as much as possible.

It looks like ResetEra has been really kind and hasn't moved to delete or censor this sort of information. I've been pretty afraid of stepping wrong and accidentally posting something out of bounds, though, so as a precaution I generally archive.is after each of my posts. It's really easy-- just go to archive.is, copy/paste in the URL of the website you want to keep a copy of, and wait for the "queue" to finish up. It doesn't work on some websites, but it should work fine with ResetEra. I would've preferred a more organized way of getting information out, especially one that was more friendly with Google, but I couldn't think of anything better than Medium. I wasn't about to spend hundreds of dollars on dedicated webhosting.

Of course given it's Ben saying it it might need to be taken with a massive grain of salt. This article is honestly the first time I'd heard playism's name mentioned since when they first started up their DDL site, so I've not really heard anything about them at all in years positive or negative.

On a lighter note, probably my favorite response to corporate controversy I have ever seen in my life came from Playism shortly after the first Medium post:



[Rough translation:] Here's a rare picture from our Playism CEO Ibai Ameztoy. "I'm on a business trip in a net cafe atm!"
Looks like he attached another message: "Translation, localization, debug, customer support, creative, PR, and more! If you're troubled by language barriers, by all means please consult Active Gaming Media [AGM, Playism's parent company.]. This has been Playism CEO Ibai Ameztoy!"

I actually haven't heard much good about Playism/AGM as a company to work for, but I definitely respect cheekiness of this caliber.

That said, it does look like the "sleeping in net cafes" thing is true. I haven't slept in a net cafe before, but I've heard it's not too bad. Definitely not the lavish hotel room Dan Stern tweeted about at TGS 2019.



(I'm sorry if this comes off "petty" of me, but Dan Stern bragging about his hotel room at TGS 2019 put an extremely bad taste in my mouth after Ben Judd had yammered over and over about his company struggling financially as an excuse to not pay DE on time/properly.)

I actually have a lot to say about the other publishing companies mentioned, but... as more useful, blanket advice, the average indie developer is much better off simply focusing on self-publishing on Steam. There is very little benefit to the hyped up "simultaneous all platform, all languages, worldwide!" releases that publishers advertise, especially for one's first game. It's in a publisher's best interests to "look" like they're doing something for a developer, so they'll spend money on frivolous advertising or languages that have little viable market. But there's nothing wrong with slowly adding viable platforms/languages as it becomes proven that a game has potential. A famous example is, of course, Undertale.

Many people would disagree with me on this and claim that "good marketing" can make or break a game... I believe, especially at least in the indie sphere, a game's own merits will shine through. You obviously can't just quietly drop your game on Steam and expect much, but Twitter and organic word of mouth is the best marketing, and cannot be bought with any money. I've seen lots of attempts to astroturf this, and all have failed in my eyes.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,475
Yeah, I think the toughest thing is always going to be letting your target audience know your game exists. Once that's achieved it's really down to how good the game is, but I've seen so many games struggle on that basic "I exist" point. So many cool little games I didn't realise were around until years later. I remember Ron Gilbert talking about his struggle with getting people knowing he had Thimbleweed Park out, and he's an industry legend.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,294
Of course given it's Ben saying it it might need to be taken with a massive grain of salt.
Ya think? Heh.

I wouldn't take anything Judd says about those other companies, whether it's Playism, Activision, From Software, Devolver, etc., on faith. At all. In fact at this point I kind of assume he's full of shit until proven otherwise, and not the other way around.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
Yeah he and Nayan sound like compulsive liars with the way they pull random particulars about certification or reporting sales numbers out of their ass then correct themselves the instant they're called on it. What a coincidence that all of those NDA breaks just happen to be characterizing publishers who aren't them as incompetent and negligent and having bad relationships with developers.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,294
Yeah he and Nayan sound like compulsive liars with the way they pull random particulars about certification or reporting sales numbers out of their ass then correct themselves the instant they're called on it. What a coincidence that all of those NDA breaks just happen to be characterizing publishers who aren't them as incompetent and negligent and having bad relationships with developers.
For real. I wonder if Activision/FromSoft/Devolver/etc. have the grounds to sue him for breaking NDAs and/or slandering them, to be honest. He was apparently directly involved in the FromSoft/Activision deal for Sekiro, but he trash-talks both companies? It's a real bad look IMO.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,091
For real. I wonder if Activision/FromSoft/Devolver/etc. have the grounds to sue him for breaking NDAs and/or slandering them, to be honest. He was apparently directly involved in the FromSoft/Activision deal for Sekiro, but he trash-talks both companies? It's a real bad look IMO.
They quite probably do, based purely on my intuition anyway.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,905
If I hear "INVOICES!" one more time I might scream. How can developers invoice when they have no proper access to sales and expenditure reports?
 

dwarn

Member
Dec 10, 2019
12
I realized the archive link of the second Medium post couldn't load the last few images, and in general those archive links don't show up well on Google, so I decided to try mirroring the content on Wordpress.com


Ya think? Heh.

I wouldn't take anything Judd says about those other companies, whether it's Playism, Activision, From Software, Devolver, etc., on faith. At all. In fact at this point I kind of assume he's full of shit until proven otherwise, and not the other way around.

To be honest, I actually think Ben wasn't lying about a majority of the NDA stories he told me. Nayan was demonstrably a compulsive liar and would lie about basically everything for no reason, but Ben only lied strategically. He was more the type to lie by omission than outright fabrication.

For example, when I first agreed to have 10k in tax withheld on the condition that I receive proof that it was paid to the Japanese government, he simply said that the accountant would be "filing the paperwork today or tomorrow at the latest".
Me, being a normal person, thought this meant "ok DW, I will definitely send you that proof of payment that you keep talking about!" but of course, months later, he gets to nitpick and claim he never directly agreed to providing me proof of payment, and claim I'm a dumb-dumb for not repeatedly asking him to say "YES" or "NO" to every last bit of my requests.

I think the more telling aspect of Ben's gossip about other companies is that for some odd reason, nearly every deal he was a part of seemed to have horrible miscommunications regarding withholding tax... 🤔 It's almost like he was the primary contact/interpreter in these deals between Japanese and American companies, loosely paraphrased or injected his own opinions into the interpretation out of laziness, then gaslit everyone involved and claimed they never asked "correctly" to begin with, or claimed the other party had lied instead of admitting he had just forgotten to communicate the complete message...

The specific types of lies and fuckups Dangen staff and Ben Judd make repeatedly are actually amazingly consistent. I guess these are just my feelings on it after spending over a year and a half trying to figure out what the fuck was wrong with all these people.

I'm also lead to believe the NDA breaches are mostly true because that seems to be DDM's primary reason for firing him. I think if the NDA breaches were completely false, it would've been a lot easier to claim I had made them up myself. That they're likely true and I, a completely random outsider, am able to accurately repeat them, was probably all the proof these companies and DDM needed to know that Ben had violated NDA.

For real. I wonder if Activision/FromSoft/Devolver/etc. have the grounds to sue him for breaking NDAs and/or slandering them, to be honest. He was apparently directly involved in the FromSoft/Activision deal for Sekiro, but he trash-talks both companies? It's a real bad look IMO.

I do believe Ben violating NDA exposes DDM itself to legal action. He most likely signed NDA as an agent of DDM, so DDM itself would ultimately be responsible. This is probably why DDM is making such an effort to fire and distance themselves from him. I'm told that one of the NDA actually completely destroyed a critical deal that was in progress and a Very Big Company got super pissed off at Ben/DDM.

If I hear "INVOICES!" one more time I might scream. How can developers invoice when they have no proper access to sales and expenditure reports?

Thank you for pointing this out. That said, it is true that contractually, the developer has to invoice Dangen in order to receive payment.

I'll have to see what Dan Stern has to officially say on the matter, but I would agree with the general impression that he won't have any real answers or apologies forthcoming.
 

sheaaaa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,556
The truly "sensible" business decision would be to lay off almost all staff (only Dan Stern, Dan Luffey, and Sal the porting specialist particularly pull their weight) and probably at this point rebrand under a different name hoping to god that will be enough to remove the taint associated with the "Dangen" name. But considering they are still keeping Nayan around, they are clearly prioritizing their mental image of a publishing company: good ol' boys drinking and having fun streaming awesome video games and sometimes talking about comic books and movies... rather than a profitable and sensible business model that prioritizes developer support and sound investment.

This is such fire, I love it. I applaud your courage in bringing this to light.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,475

+racism huh

One friend of Alex's told a story of her first time meeting Judd at a dinner alongside Alex and an unnamed fourth party. The source, a black woman, said that Judd used the n-word to refer to her not long after they started speaking. When challenged on his use of the slur, the source said Judd defended his use of it by claiming he had a black friend who told him he could use it and refused to be convinced it was inappropriate. Future interactions with Judd, she added, involved repeated attempts to "push buttons," including him touching her hair without permission and making other racially and sexually pointed remarks.
 

nickinerdface

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10
uh yeah, fuck that line about how PC culture isn't in japan or whatever the fuck. whoever that is needs to get out of the industry too.