Dating Apps suck... for women

[Deleted member 9306]

EDIT: Got educated about the "Wah why won't men pay for coffee dates" thing that I complained about below, so it's not a Huuuuge complaint anymore, but I'm keeping it up because it was my original opinion.

Sort of a spinoff of that other thread on here (not sure if that's allowed, mods please delete if not). NOT meant to attack that OP or men in any way, but I guess I just wanted to rant.

I'm a 21 year old Black-Canadian girl living in Toronto, and by Odin, by Amaterasu, by Anansi, by the powers of Greyskull, I hate online dating. But I have to rely on it if I want to get dates at all for the most part. I'm a major introvert. I have friends but I'm friends with them individually/I don't have a 'friend group' per say. I'm also super busy with writing, school, work and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. So yeah, dating apps are pretty much the major way I meet men romantically.

And I hate it. Oh boy, by Susanoo, I hate it. I guess to summarize in bullet points, I have the following issues:

• I'm not just looking for sex. I'm CONVINCED that most men period on dating apps are. But I put "Not here for hookups" in my profile right? And you'd think that these guys would be able to read the profile and then just not bother me once they see that I'm not intereste- no that would be smart. Instead they still match with me, then when I turn them down they act like I'm some gigantic prude. I'm not, but I'm just not open to doing that outside of a real relationship, sorry y'all.
  • Hate to make this racial too, but I wonder how much my race factors into me attracting guys who are only into me for sex. There's that entire thing where most men, unfortunately Black men too, only think Black women are good for screwing, and not good enough for marriage/serious dating. *Enter Black Womanist essay here* Oh god, speaking of which...

• The flipping fetisihization I get is unacceptable and annoying. I'm not your magic voodoo kween or whatever, screw off. Outside of sex, people also tend to attribute personality traits/interests to me based on my race which is also freaking annoying. I don't want to sound like a "special negro", but I'm not into most popular rap, I hate clubbing or whatever, I'm a huge nerd and I like things like that. But it's like men don't read my profile at all and keep trying to make me do things that I'm not into doing.
  • Speaking of which, the worst part about the fetisization is that it doesn't just come from Non-black guys. I've had Black men flat out tell me that they're into me because "Dark skinned girls do what light skinned girls wont do" and other mess like that. Trust, there's this entire fucked up philosophy where Black women will put up with more things than White women, and it's like God please save me from it, go away, sayonara.

• Quality of dates. I don't need to be taken out for a $999 Dinner spree on the first date, but really guys? I hate coffee, I hate tea. And if you're taking me out for Bubble tea then why are you sweating me over the like, 4-7$ mine costs? If you're that broke maybe you shouldn't be dating.
  • Don't fight me on this. I tend to go out with guys who are 2-3 years older than me (which i hate, I'll get to that later), and to a certain extent no matter what relationships will never actually be 50/50 for women. The world isn't 50/50 for women once you factor things in like the Wage Gap, the Second Shift, etc etc. So me expecting to be catered to a little bitshouldn't be out of the question. If i have to pay for my own bubble tea, I could do that alone.
    • EDIT: So I sort of revised/explained my viewpoint later on in the comments, see my response on the first page. Please don't' take this as a "poor people shouldn't date" type of thing either, I'm poor too.

• Age of men. I don't feel comfortable going out with guys too much older than me, to be perfectly honest. I'm really paranoid of being taken advantage of emotionally/mentally/sexually, so I try to stick to my age range and maybe 1-2 years older than me (never younger, because at my age that'd be like dating a teenager, no thanks). So it's not flattering at all when some guy who's 26 wants to hit me up. No shade to anyone who does this, but I'm always going to wonder why you're trying to get with me, someone who's inexperienced and just starting out, instead of trying to get with someone who's closer to your age. Age gaps aren't that bad imo when you're 30 and dating someone who's 40, but why are you 30 trying to get with a 21 year old? That's a whole 9 years of Teenage-> Young Adult -> Adult development, dude.

• Attraction in general/Basicness of men. Don't try to drag me in the comments, but it really feels like most men are the goddamn same. Shirtless pics (which aren't interesting to me because I do Brazlian Jiu Jitsu, meaning that I see shirtless men all the time.). The Office references. "I LISTEN TO DRAAAKKKEEE" (Side-point: I fucking hate Drake). I like to travel. I like video games (Don't put this in your profile unless you're into niche games; everybody plays CoD so it's not very interesting that you do too bub). I like netflix. I like anime. Do men realize how basic this makes you sound? I'm sure there's probably a version of this for women too, but it's annoying as hell nonetheless. Also, ugh I hate to say it but a lot of guys I'm just not physically attracted to. I don't know if this is because of video games/media/etc screwing up my perception of men, a percursor to me realizing that I might not be attracted to men, or whatever, but it's odd. I admittedly have preferences, but I never discount people who don't meet them.

• Guys liking me, then I'll like them back, then they wont respond. I don't pursue men (read the part under "Quality of Dates" for why) so when this happens I think they're just doing that annoying thing that men do where they match with everyone for an ego boost. Just... a waste of time.

Ugh I'm sure there's more to complain about but at this point I just sound bitter and angry and I'm not a bitter or angry person. The good part about this nonsense is that I'm learning how to live on my own/cultivating my friendships more, so it's not like I need a man. But holy geez, if this is all that's out there, then my "Just become a successful author and buy a Dog" end-game is going to be my epilogue.

By the way, these are my experiences on all the major dating apps except for Tinder. I'm talking about OKCupid, Bumble, and even Hinge. I've since deleted all my profiles except for the one on Hinge, but even Hinge seems to have a lot of useless guys on it.

Can any other girls/dudes on here cosign or am I alone here?

 

[Deleted member 8861]

I never expected it to be pleasant given the barrage of harassment I hear women get in any sort of digital space, but this thread has been still enlightening in many ways. Thanks for the thread OP.

Edit: I've never dated, tried to, or used dating apps, but it must be hard to sound interesting when people won't see much more than your bio and when especially for guys there's like probably 5+ other guys matching with every person you're interested in.

That's not to belittle your troubles though. That sounds like some shit.

 

[Sandfox]

From what I've read black women especially have it rough on dating sites. It seems like those services really only work for certain groups.

The coffee first date thing is just the standard recommended thing on the internet and some of the other stuff those guys are doing are probably the same.

 

[FliX]

Just want to say I sympathize and consider myself super fortunate that I do not have to play the dating game anymore.

 

[Septy]

Quality of dates. I don't need to be taken out for a $999 Dinner spree on the first date, but really guys? I hate coffee, I hate tea. And if you're taking me out for Bubble tea then why are you sweating me over the like, 4-7$ mine costs? If you're that broke maybe you shouldn't be dating.

• • Don't fight me on this. I tend to go out with guys who are 2-3 years older than me (which i hate, I'll get to that later), and to a certain extent no matter what relationships will never actually be 50/50 for women. The world isn't 50/50 for women once you factor things in like the Wage Gap, the Second Shift, etc etc. So me expecting to be catered to a little bit shouldn't be out of the question. If i have to pay for my own bubble tea, I could do that alone.

Click to shrink...

Wow what an awful take. Poor people shouldn't be dating? $4-7 is a lot for some people. Unless it's agreed on who will pay you should assume to be splitting. That's fair. And because women aren't treated fairly in society doesn't mean you should get special treatment when it comes to dating. Those two things have nothing to do with each other and it's shitty.

 

[Maximus]

Some points that stand out to me: the guy paying for the first date. In my experience and my friends, there can be a lot of first dates and it can add up real quick for a guy, so that's why sometimes some guys may not want to pay for the date. Some guys have been burned where they take women out for a dinner or lunch or drinks and that person immediately ghosts them after the date.

Second point, I think everyone has higher than normal standards on these apps because it's designed for people to easily judge and make a split decision. There's more to someone than just purely looks, so it seems like a hypocritical thing to say you don't want to be judged for things, but then quickly judge others?

Your other points make sense and it sucks you have to be bombarded by assumptions based on your race and what not.

 

[Morrigan]

Just want to say I sympathize and consider myself super fortunate that I do not have to play the dating game anymore.

Click to shrink...

Same.

Sorry TomoeGoZen that's some bullshit for the most part. That said the part about paying... I have to hard-disagree there lol. It's cool if they invite you, but you shouldn't expect them to.

 

[Prolepro]

Sort of a spinoff of that other thread on here (not sure if that's allowed, mods please delete if not). NOT meant to attack that OP or men in any way, but I guess I just wanted to rant.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for making this thread. My experience driving my thread was meant to be a superficial look at trends Ive noticed as Ive been going around the country, not a serious take, but that indeed says something more about the advantages men have in approaching these things, just as you put.

 

[tabris]

Quality of dates. I don't need to be taken out for a $999 Dinner spree on the first date, but really guys? I hate coffee, I hate tea. And if you're taking me out for Bubble tea then why are you sweating me over the like, 4-7$ mine costs? If you're that broke maybe you shouldn't be dating.

• Don't fight me on this. I tend to go out with guys who are 2-3 years older than me (which i hate, I'll get to that later), and to a certain extent no matter what relationships will never actually be 50/50 for women. The world isn't 50/50 for women once you factor things in like the Wage Gap, the Second Shift, etc etc. So me expecting to be catered to a little bit shouldn't be out of the question. If i have to pay for my own bubble tea, I could do that alone.

Click to shrink...

Hmm. I think this part will drive conversation. I think expecting to be catered to may be leading to some of your challenges? Even if you, me, or others don't follow, the expectation for first online date should be 50/50 - after that the dynamics can change, sure.

The offer is always appreciated. Without the offer it can form an opinion.

 

[Notaskwid]

Oh boy

 

[Mr Jones]

That sucks, OP.

I will say that you might be counting out some decent folks when you cut out folks who are more than a few years older than you. That person might be more mature, more stable, be more comfortable in their own skin, etc.

But yeah. Dating can be rough. Good luck sister.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Online dating is awful for both genders as a general rule, but man, women have it about a thousand times worse. I feel so bad for anyone who's trying to find people on a dating app because the amount of absolute nonsense you have to carve through just to maybe have one halfway decent date is...yeesh.

 

[Deleted member 9306]

Wow what an awful take. Poor people shouldn't be dating? $4-7 is a lot for some people. Unless it's agreed on who will pay you should assume to be splitting. That's fair. And because women aren't treated fairly in society doesn't mean you should get special treatment when it comes to dating. Those two things have nothing to do with each other and it's shitty.

Click to shrink...

Some points that stand out to me: the guy paying for the first date. In my experience and my friends, there can be a lot of first dates and it can add up real quick for a guy, so that's why sometimes some guys may not want to pay for the date. Some guys have been burned where they take women out for a dinner or lunch or drinks and that person immediately ghosts them after the date.

Second point, I think everyone has higher than normal standards on these apps because it's designed for people to easily judge and make a split decision. There's more to someone than just purely looks, so it seems like a hypocritical thing to say you don't want to be judged for things, but then quickly judge others?

Your other points make sense and it sucks you have to be bombarded by assumptions based on your race and what not.

Click to shrink...

Same.

Sorry TomoeGoZen that's some bullshit for the most part. That said the part about paying... I have to hard-disagree there lol. It's cool if they invite you, but you shouldn't expect them to.

Click to shrink...

Sorry, I didn't mean to shit on poor people, and I'm not balling myself (I actually live right at the poverty line). It's just that I see that men have it a bit easier than women in society, plus the age thing I mentioned. So it makes sense for a 21 year old woman to struggle more to pay for things than a 24 year old man in my eyes, but it's not like I think all men are rich because of the differences in society. Just probably wealthier than me. I'd be more open for splitting the bill once I'm not a broke ass college student.

(I also should've mentioned that I only get douchey about splitting the bill when men older than me; I'm not expecting someone my age to take me out to Baton Rogue)

As for the point about attraction, that's fair, I'll try to stop doing that.

 

[Static]

It's a rough dating world out there, OP. Sorry for your challenges. Thanks for sharing them. FWIW the match with no response thing is definitely shit, but definitely not just something women experience. Everybody likes their ego boost, I guess.

 

[shnurgleton]

coffee/tea is a pretty standard first date, especially if you're on The Apps. it is basically a screener to see if the person is a creep or just totally incompatible. if you aren't willing to pay your own way for that then I'm sorry. if you don't like coffee or tea, I'm sure there's something else you can get. better yet, make a counter suggestion of something else fairly low cost that you both can do and confidently pay your own way at

but yes... online dating sucks

 

[BigHatPaul]

Dating apps suck for everyone, I feel. I just don't like having people lined up to swipe through. It feels weird. A lot of people are devoid of personality there, too, offering next to nothing in terms of conversation.

 

[CrocM]

Never considered taking women's lower wages into account when deciding whether to buy their bubble tea or not.

 

[Vagabond]

Not a girl but yes, all my girl friends all have said the SAME things. Straight men are horrible on dating apps. ESPECIALLY if you're younger and of course if you are not in an area with a lot of diversity (And Toronto should be a lot better than a ton of places) you will encounter the worst people.

I'm gay so I have plenty of options, but could I suggest an app with specific focus on whats closer to your 'type', for example they have apps geared towards Black dating that I'm familiar with. I have had MeetUp groups go REALLY well for socializing that also led to dating.

As far as actual dates, you are young so unless you go for guys who are much older you are going to have to get used to coffee and bubble tea. People under 30 be broke. I used to have a map of all the museums and parks imprinted into my brain - y'know because those are the free dates. The flip side of that is you are young and in a decent sized city and dont really need to rely on dating apps at all. Just go out.

 

[Deleted member 9306]

Hmm. I think this part will drive conversation. I think expecting to be catered to may be leading to some of your challenges? Even if you, me, or others don't follow, the expectation for first online date should be 50/50 - after that the dynamics can change, sure.

Click to shrink...

You may be right! I'll drop this expectation and see how it goes in the future.

 

[Vilix]

OP, I think that we've come to a stage where a considerable number of men an women don't have anything in common anymore. I think you should just keep doing what you're doing and enjoy what you currently have.

 

[Blue Sky Noise]

dating apps are hell, go for the dog

 

[Bacon]

26 years old is too old for a 21 year old? Why don't you just tune the app so you can't match with anyone older than what range you are looking for?

 

[wenis]

dating before apps also sucked too. I once went out on a blind date with a woman who I was completely incompatable with. She also said some real dickish shit while on the date. I paid the bill in full and told her the only thing we have in common is we'll both be dead in the future and walked out. I didnt want the person who set us up to be upset that I bailed on the bill and date, so I at least did that out of friendship. She was also no longer allowed to set me up anymore.

 

[jimtothehum]

The tough thing about internet dating is that it takes all the good and the bad from regular dating and then streamlines and amplifies it. That's why dating apps can be so hard, all the bad tendencies that people have when it comes to dating become overwhelming due to how these apps work. All I can say is: Solidarity. I hope you find the person that makes you delete all of those shitty apps.

As far as the 50/50 thing goes, I would give men some slack because I have found on my dates when I try to pay for a bunch of things many women say they don't want that. It makes them feel like they are less beholden to the guy they are on the date with to have things 50/50.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

It's a tough dating world, especially for introverts. Also I feel like coffee/tea as a first date is perfectly fine. Trying to go on a couple dates a month as a young woman/man can be costly and add up real quick. I always used to set a $30 limit on the combined spend of my first dates. Also different people are going to have different expectations about who pays and these days I feel it's just expected for first dates to attempt to split the bill evenly.

 

[Mr. X]

I like Okami too OP. Let's split a Wendy's $5 bag, my treat.

 

[CrocM]

The flip side of that is you are young and in a decent sized city and dont really need to rely on dating apps at all. Just go out.

Click to shrink...

Right but she said she's very introverted so that's not really a good option for her either. I'm sure lots of people are in the same boat.

 

[Border]

If it's any consolation, dating apps suck for men as well. Women have to slog through hundreds of creeps and time-wasters, while men just meet with a collective cold indifference. I don't know if there is any way to balance things a bit more.

 

[prophetvx]

Sorry, I didn't mean to shit on poor people, and I'm not balling myself (I actually live right at the poverty line). It's just that I see that men have it a bit easier than women in society, plus the age thing I mentioned. So it makes sense for a 21 year old woman to struggle more to pay for things than a 24 year old man in my eyes, but it's not like I think all men are rich because of the differences in society. Just probably wealthier than me. I'd be more open for splitting the bill once I'm not a broke ass college student.

(I also should've mentioned that I only get douchey about splitting the bill when men older than me; I'm not expecting someone my age to take me out to Baton Rogue)

As for the point about attraction, that's fair, I'll try to stop doing that.

Click to shrink...

If they earn less than you, do you offer to pay for the date in full? Perhaps if you didn't view dates through the lens of patriarchy, you wouldn't have dates that have the significant issues of patriarchy that you have described.

You're a 21 year old woman, limiting yourself to that age group within 2-3 years will limit your experiences to men looking for sex, because most people at that age on dating apps are looking for that. Expecting them to pay for everything also limits your ability to exchange and develop a relationship because you've established worth and expectations, most guys will gladly pay for most things on dates but if you make it clear that is your expectation, that is an instant disqualifier for most people.

 

[Doober]

They're generally hell, and I'm sure doubly so for a black woman.

That being said, at least it sounds like you're getting some bites and first dates. For a lot of guys it's a complete drought. Like, 1 in 10 DMs get a response, and 1 in 10 of THOSE get to an actual first date. It's a ton of work and disappointment just to actually meet a girl once in a great while.

There's gotta be a breaking point to where people start ditching apps en-masse, but we're not there yet.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Dating apps suck for everyone

Just stop using them, problem solved.

Go to social events, clubs (as in book clubs, board game meet-ups or whatever nerd stuff you are into) and activities in your town/city that you find interesting. Maybe learn or sharpen a skill by taking a class. That's the best way to meet people that are into what you're into and don't just want to hookup.

I would also say maybe widen your age gap by a couple more years. The difference between a 21 year old woman and a 25 year old man is not really that much, men mature much slower than women which is why 21 year old dudes suck.

 

[tabris]

You may be right! I'll drop this expectation and see how it goes in the future.

Click to shrink...

Yeah. A 50/50 bubble tea date is totally acceptable for first time online date. And then a second date for dinner with you offering to pay. And then if a third date comes around and you've had more discussions around what you do then the normal pay dynamics should reflect that. Now I used to go excessive on first dates as I liked to do tasting menus at nice restaurants because A) I wanted to enjoy awesome food. B) It was a great way to have a conversation, but I think that's rare.

I also think still in today's society, it's true we're not 50/50 yet so men should end up paying a larger share when dating. I'm dating a marketing executive and I'm in a sales role, so I make more so my contribution to our relationship is more 65%~ to her 35%~. She ends up buying me a lot of things and coming up with surprises while I get most dinners, but she offered during our initial dates and still offers constantly which makes me comfortable with it.

Now to also be fair on the other side of that, the wage gap actually isn't that vast pre-childbearing years and it's often the huge challenge of maternity leave causing career acceleration / trajectory differences between the 2 genders that really accelerates wage gap. The solution to that is forcing paternity leave and that's starting to pop up in western nations. So we're going to have to start changing up this pay dynamic during dating to reflect when wage gaps change.

EDIT - Here's the study that shows this - it's about early 30s where it really starts dividing:

 

[lasthope106]

I agree with you on some things, but disagree with your takes about age difference and the quality of dates. There are plenty of good dudes on those apps, that never get messaged back even when a lot of interests are a match. Imagine swiping literally thousands of profiles and only getting 1 or 2 matches in months.

 

[Septy]

Sorry, I didn't mean to shit on poor people, and I'm not balling myself (I actually live right at the poverty line). It's just that I see that men have it a bit easier than women in society, plus the age thing I mentioned. So it makes sense for a 21 year old woman to struggle more to pay for things than a 24 year old man in my eyes, but it's not like I think all men are rich because of the differences in society. Just probably wealthier than me. I'd be more open for splitting the bill once I'm not a broke ass college student.

(I also should've mentioned that I only get douchey about splitting the bill when men older than me; I'm not expecting someone my age to take me out to Baton Rogue)

Click to shrink...

I really don't understand your thought. Older people = have more money? Not everyone goes to college and then gets a high paying job right after. You need to be more lax

 

[jaekeem]

Dating apps suck for everyone

Just stop using them, problem solved.

Go to social events, clubs (as in book clubs, board game meet-ups or whatever nerd stuff you are into) and activities in your town/city that you find interesting. Maybe learn or sharpen a skill by taking a class. That's the best way to meet people that are into what you're into and don't just want to hookup.

Click to shrink...

yeah, it's just as bad for men, heck, maybe even worse for men on the lowest end of the dating app attractiveness spectrum

 

[TheIdiot]

Coffee is a classic first date, meant to get to know a person before seeing if they're worth more time (and money). You can't really hold that against them. Why not suggest drinks instead if you want a more loose environment without breaking the bank? If you drink that is.

Expecting them to pay is... also not good. How do you know the 24-year old guy isn't also a broke ass college student? He doesn't owe you anything.

 

[Blue Sky Noise]

regarding 'basic' profiles, it's stupid but I do think that the "I like the office and traveling" people write that in their profile because they have read somewhere online that that's the best way to attract the opposite sex, like niche interests or being more specific might alienate people so write as vanilla a profile as possible to try and attract as many as possible. I assume these people must have actual personalities buried underneath, there's no way that many people can be that boring.

 

[Chrno]

Here are the thoughts from someone who's been online dating for about 5 years, and knows a lot of men/women who have done the same.

Before I get into it, it's cool to read a woman's perspective on Era when it comes to dating – doesn't happen very often so thank you for taking the time to be thorough about it!

Let's take these point by point.

Quality of Dates:
Someone already called it out, but multiple dates can add up. Keep in mind that a lot of people are going out on several dates, and these $7-10 coffee/boba/drink occasions can add up quickly. I make more than enough money but if the girl doesn't at least start going for her wallet or looks at me with an "expected" gaze, there's already a red flag being waved. For perspective, I was living paycheck to paycheck from the age of 18 to 25.

Age Gap
You're 21, ya? You ever heard the implication that women mature faster than men? In my experience I'd find that very true, but to be honest people in their early-mid twenties are still trying to figure stuff out in general. I was probably at the worst part of my entire life from the age of 20-23. It's probably extra hard for you because you're still so young.

Attraction:
The sad part of online dating is that much like looking at products on amazon, stuff really does start to look the same. The truth is that people don't really differ from one another all that often, and being "average" is actually pretty standard. If someone is "unique" in looks, personality, or style, then they are the odd ones out and you're probably going to have to compete for them against others.

People Liking you and not Liking you Back:
Here's the hard truth – when someone likes you, you become part of a 'pool' that they're filling. If you're not the prettiest, sharpest, or most unique fish in the pool, then you might get passed on without as much as a second look. It sucks.

I might sound a bit jaded, but the fact of the matter is online dating is hard unless you're super attractive, white, or asian. Good luck out there!

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

I've never used one of these sites, but stuff like this makes me not want to just because it's probably a situation where all the good people arn't on them. But at the same time it is probably the only way I could every try to meet someone since I don't really have any friends and never get out. Thought maybe I could try meet ups but then again, that isn't what that is there for. Yes I know, I suck at this.

 

[Wackamole]

Yeah that sounds terrible.
So it sucks especially bad for black women?

I don't know. Never been on a dating app. And everything i hear from it just sounds like a shallow meat market.

best of luck. I'm sure you'll find a decent guy one day. Maybe outside of the dating apps?

 

[Youngfossil]

meh, early 20's dating. What are you expecting?

 

[HotHamBoy]

regarding 'basic' profiles, it's stupid but I do think that the "I like the office and traveling" people write that in their profile because they have read somewhere online that that's the best way to attract the opposite sex, like niche interests or being more specific might alienate people so write as vanilla a profile as possible to try and attract as many as possible. I assume these people must have actual personalities buried underneath, there's no way that many people can be that boring.

Click to shrink...

That's part of why dating apps suck for everyone. Everyone is trying to game the system.

Yeah that sounds terrible.
So it sucks especially bad for black women?

I don't know. Never been on a dating app. And everything i hear from it just sounds like a shallow meat market.

best of luck. I'm sure you'll find a decent guy one day. Maybe outside of the dating apps?

Click to shrink...

Black women and Asian men have the hardest time on dating apps

 

[Sunster]

Great OP

Dating apps suck for everyone, I feel. I just don't like having people lined up to swipe through. It feels weird. A lot of people are devoid of personality there, too, offering next to nothing in terms of conversation.

Click to shrink...

right, but this thread is about specific issues faced by women.

 

[tabris]

The obnoxious thing about "I like travel" is you ask them where they've traveled to and it's like Cancun and Vegas lol.

I would only pick out someone who specified what unique travel experiences they've had. Someone who's backpacked Southeast Asia vs someone who partied in Vegas is very different but they both "like travel".

I'm glad I only had to go through 3 online dates. I had good luck with relationships through friends or people I met in real life first.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Sorry OP. Dating apps suck for women, and they especially suck for POC women. You have a tough road ahead of you, but don't give up. I don't have much to add really other than reconsidering your stance on age range. When I was dating in my late 20s I knew plenty of folx in their younger 20s who were shitstains, but also quite a few who were mature beyond their typical age and had their shit together better than I did. A blanket ban on certain age ranges can just limit your pool for little reason. Those who are younger emotionally will show themselves after a brief conversation.

I assume these people must have actual personalities buried underneath, there's no way that many people can be that boring.

Click to shrink...

lol you would be surprised, I've talked to a lot of guys and girls who literally watch nothing but The Office.

I've had to ask multiple dates to turn The Office off while we attempted to make out. It shouldn't be like this. But it is.

 

[Mr Jones]

So let me ask OP:

It sounds like you're in PRIME areas for dating. You do BJJ, and you go to college. I know, I know. You said that you're hella introverted. But... you probably couldn't be in a better situation to find folks that you have something in common with. Have you met anyone on campus or at the gym that you'd consider dating? No one from class that you could break the ice by doing a cafeteria study session with? No one from BJJ classes that you could ask to go have a beer with sometime?

At least then you'd KNOW that you have something in common from the get go, so it would be easier to get conversation started.

 

[Gaf Zombie]

I mean yeah, a lot of that sounds shitty but...

You're 21 dating in a narrow age band (you said no younger and 26 was too old which implies 21-25 at the widest). That range is notorious for its....casual dating nature.

You said you're not attracted to most guys. Certainly understandable but if you're aiming for a certain look and/or certain race, you have a smaller pool to choose from. And the most attractive people will have more options etc. etc. which will exacerbate the whole 'ghosting' issue.

I agree with you that if a guy invites you out that he should pay. Still, I can't fault them for not wanting to spend much money on someone he hardly knows yet.

I honestly think what you're experiencing is a disconnect between expectations and dating reality. Some problems are likely worsened by the fact that you're on a dating site (rude comments, etc.) but I think you'd find similar issues at your local watering hole.

I may be biased in that when I was dating I loved the dating sites/apps. Funny enough though I met wife at a bar. Go figure.

Good luck.

 

[Youngfossil]

Yeah. A 50/50 bubble tea date is totally acceptable for first time online date. And then a second date for dinner with you offering to pay. And then if a third date comes around and you've had more discussions around what you do then the normal pay dynamics should reflect that. Now I used to go excessive on first dates as I liked to do tasting menus at nice restaurants because A) I wanted to enjoy awesome food. B) It was a great way to have a conversation, but I think that's rare.

I also think still in today's society, it's true we're not 50/50 yet so men should end up paying a larger share when dating. I'm dating a marketing executive and I'm in a sales role, so I make more so my contribution to our relationship is more 65%~ to her 35%~. She ends up buying me a lot of things and coming up with surprises while I get most dinners, but she offered during our initial dates and still offers constantly which makes me comfortable with it.

Now to also be fair on the other side of that, the wage gap actually isn't that vast pre-childbearing years and it's often the huge challenge of maternity leave causing career acceleration / trajectory differences between the 2 genders that really accelerates wage gap. The solution to that is forcing paternity leave and that's starting to pop up in western nations. So we're going to have to start changing up this pay dynamic during dating to reflect when wage gaps change.

EDIT - Here's the study that shows this - it's about early 30s where it really starts dividing:

Click to shrink...

This is too broad. Black men get paid less than white women... Going by that logic, white women should pay for all my dates (most do make more than me too)

 

[Doober]

I really don't understand how The Office seems so much more popular in 2019 than it ever was when it was actually running.

 

[Thunder11]

I disagree that men should be expected to pay, even with your wage gap argument. Also, what about a 24 year old medical student guy with a 21 year old college graduate with an actual job, for example?

I also agree that online dating sucks, especially if you're not white, and esp if you're a minority in a predominantly white area.

So many of the issues I complain about as a guy definitely go both ways (like the basicness) and women have their own unique set of issues to deal w/ like the creepiness/sleaze factor.