DatingEra - This isn't like one of your animes

jdstorm

Member
Jan 6, 2018
3,920
Oh, I know that one. My ex always would wait until I finished telling a story to tell me that I had told her that at least once or twice before haha...

I guess I thought of it because I'm going out with a girl on Wednesday and seeing as it's been a month since we last saw each other I really can't remember what I said and didn't say to her... whoops!



At least where I live Tinder is much better than Bumble. Bumble is kind of like Tinder with extra steps. Even if you match with someone, the girl has to message you first within 24 hours or you lose the match. I've had Bumble on and off and only have gotten one match that stuck. I can count on one hand the other matches I received they timed out. Bumble has a weird disconnect where it wants to operate on a dating logic that doesn't exist - it's swimming against the current.



I don't think Tinder is too much of a hookup app nowadays. Sure plenty of people use it for that but I think it's more if you're in the 18-24 range. Almost ever profile I see on Tinder has the woman specifically saying no hookups.
I saw a person on tinder who had no hookups in her profile. We’d met 6 months earlier under different circumstances and she’d been very keen for exactly that.

People mostly put things like that on there to not seem “easy” and filter out people who will be crass

Edit
She might just want extra followers rather than anything romantic if she's not giving you her phone number, at least that's what it has been from my experience.
Snapchat is typically what people use when they want to send nudes. Just putting it out there
 
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Oct 31, 2017
5,980
In my very little experience with Bumble even after matching the woman never initiated a conversation and I extended the timer an extra 24 hours and still never got even a hello. I’ve had it happen pretty consistently with at least 10 matches so far.
Timer extension never works in my experience. Granted, she could be reeeaaallllllllly busy, but with the amount people are on their phones, I'm pretty sure they just matched with others they prefer, or maybe swiped by mistake.
 
Nov 17, 2017
9,376
well, i mean for women lmao. no more barrage of vulgar messages, marriage proposals, and obscene images.
Wouldn't they still get those things after messaging first?

The only real difference between Tinder and Bumble messages is that on Bumble, there's a "hey" from the girl before the guy initiates the conversation as usual haha
 

Pelicano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
804
She might just want extra followers rather than anything romantic if she's not giving you her phone number, at least that's what it has been from my experience.
This definitely isn't true. She's giving you a way to contact her directly, OUTSIDE of the dating app. You don't need a phone number to flirt or setup a date. Anyone having confidence issues or trouble with dating should check out Corey Wayne. He's a trumper dude, but his advice on women is super solid. I'd also recommend his book 3% man to kind of understand what mental state women are into.

I wouldn't use his techniques of waiting 4 days or whatever to contact chicks, etc, but the basic mindset is extremely solid and a good foundation for getting good at dating / improving your life in general.
 
Nov 17, 2017
9,376
Anyone having confidence issues or trouble with dating should check out Corey Wayne. He's a trumper dude, but his advice on women is super solid.
Hmmm...

Generally, I tell people do avoid these types of dating coaches. They usually have a very limited view on what makes a "man" with pretty toxic views on masculinity. They also tend to be pretty misogynistic and talk about women as if they're strange creatures that don't operate on human logic.



 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,772
UK
This definitely isn't true. She's giving you a way to contact her directly, OUTSIDE of the dating app. You don't need a phone number to flirt or setup a date. Anyone having confidence issues or trouble with dating should check out Corey Wayne. He's a trumper dude, but his advice on women is super solid. I'd also recommend his book 3% man to kind of understand what mental state women are into.

I wouldn't use his techniques of waiting 4 days or whatever to contact chicks, etc, but the basic mindset is extremely solid and a good foundation for getting good at dating / improving your life in general.
What's the reason to avoid a phone number, for security? Fair enough, if people are getting dates through Snapchat, and things go from there where if things work out they exchange phone numbers, great.

You lost me at Trumper my dude but maybe that's not a dealbreaker for some here who can excuse the white supremacy lol, and reading about him just through a simple search, there's a lot of teaching how to manipulate women and seems quite anti-feminist.
 

Pelicano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
804
Hmmm...

Generally, I tell people do avoid these types of dating coaches. They usually have a very limited view on what makes a "man" with pretty toxic views on masculinity. They also tend to be pretty misogynistic and talk about women as if they're strange creatures that don't operate on human logic.



Well when reading some of these posts, it's way better than the alternative that they have, which is figuring it out on their own and being anxious. Not trying to brag, but a first date kiss for me is literally the equivalent of a handshake, so that's the mindset I'm coming from. Whether you want to admit it or not, these coaches (the good ones anyways), are talking from experience. They can get with girls. Tune their advice to your own moral compass or just deal with seeing everyone else get with girls. /shrug (Not you specifically)

What's the reason to avoid a phone number, for security? Fair enough, if people are getting dates through Snapchat, and things go from there where if things work out they exchange phone numbers, great.

You lost me at Trumper my dude but maybe that's not a dealbreaker for some here who can excuse the white supremacy lol, and reading about him just through a simple search, there's a lot of teaching how to manipulate women and seems quite anti-feminist.
Yeah, it's mainly security. Some girls just don't want to give their number to some stranger they've never met before and that's perfectly fine. It's still an olive branch to get to know them better, see what they do with their lives, and vice versa. The number isn't the end all be all.

Also, unfortunately, that's what comes with the territory of "date coaches / improving your dating game". If you actually want to get better with girls, you do almost have to treat it like a science and understand how women work / what they react to. Each girl is different, but there are patterns they all find attractive (confidence, charm, funny, etc). While I condone 0% of what any of these dudes believe in politically and vehemently disagree in most regards, their dating advice works (Corey Wayne / Todd V). I went from like insecure/anxious to legitimately great at dating. I average like 3 dates a week with legit cute chicks.
 
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Pelicano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
804
That's a no from me dawg.

Could this fucker not just write "confidence is important" without implying a woman is some kind of puzzle waiting to be solved?

Read Mark Manson instead.
Yeah, I could totally cherry pick some stuff too. Also he's on Youtube so he's gotta generate clicks somehow. Those titles are usually pretty appealing towards dudes who just got dumped, fucked up a relationship.

Was just offering some advice to anyone who is having anxious / panic attacks in regards to something as trivial as online dating. There is help out there. It doesn't have to be Corey W or whatever, but just google shit and check youtube videos from people with experience. Figuring it out on your own with no benchmark is the worst way of doing it. Pretty much every dating coach says the same thing though, it all starts with cultivating a confident/high value mindset, eat healthy/stay in shape, filling your life with fun and exciting things, then working on dating. Just find someone whose advice meshes with your way of thinking.
 
Nov 17, 2017
9,376
Well when reading some of these posts, it's way better than the alternative that they have, which is figuring it out on their own and being anxious. Not trying to brag, but a first date kiss for me is literally the equivalent of a handshake, so that's the mindset I'm coming from. Whether you want to admit it or not, these coaches (the good ones anyways), are talking from experience. They can get with girls. Tune their advice to your own moral compass or just deal with seeing everyone else get with girls. /shrug (Not you specifically)
I think it's a dangerous mindset and philosophy to promote. They can get with girls. So? Too many guys focus so hard on getting with girls no matter what that they stop seeing them as people and instead goals in a complicated game and this type of dating advice reinforces that mindset.

Sure, people like you and me can parse through all the crap and pick out the good parts (like being confident in yourself) but for guys who are down on their luck with dating, it can be far too easy to absorb all the bad messages which dominate the advice from these types of coaches. When a Dating Coach thinks women are constantly testing men, that saturates every piece of advice they give. This kind of stuff is basically just PUA/Red Pill lite and its in the DNA of their advice.


Yeah, I could totally cherry pick some stuff too. Was just offering some advice to anyone who is having anxious / panic attacks in regards to something as trivial as online dating. There is help out there. It doesn't have to be Corey W or whatever, but just google shit and check youtube videos from people with experience. Figuring it out on your own with no benchmark is the worst way of doing it. Pretty much every dating coach says the same thing though, it all starts with cultivating a confident/high value mindset, eat healthy/stay in shape, filling your life with fun and exciting things, then working on dating. Just find someone whose advice meshes with your way of thinking.
There are plenty of online resources that give good advice for dating that aren't poisoned with misogynistic viewpoints and toxic masculinity. You recommended Corey Wayne specifically so I just pointed out that I don't think he's a good idea.
 

Scotch

Member
Oct 28, 2017
135
Yeah, I could totally cherry pick some stuff too. Was just offering some advice to anyone who is having anxious / panic attacks in regards to something as trivial as online dating. There is help out there. It doesn't have to be Corey W or whatever, but just google shit and check youtube videos from people with experience. Figuring it out on your own with no benchmark is the worst way of doing it.
Not trying to shit on you personally, because your point is sound. There's plenty to learn from guys like these when you're inexperienced. I just wish most of them didn't fall into the RedPill / PUA tropes.
 

Pelicano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
804
I think it's a dangerous mindset and philosophy to promote. They can get with girls. So? Too many guys focus so hard on getting with girls no matter what that they stop seeing them as people and instead goals in a complicated game and this type of dating advice reinforces that mindset.

Sure, people like you and me can parse through all the crap and pick out the good parts (like being confident in yourself) but for guys who are down on their luck with dating, it can be far too easy to absorb all the bad messages which dominate the advice from these types of coaches. When a Dating Coach thinks women are constantly testing men, that saturates every piece of advice they give. This kind of stuff is basically just PUA/Red Pill lite and its in the DNA of their advice.



There are plenty of online resources that give good advice for dating that aren't poisoned with misogynistic viewpoints and toxic masculinity. You recommended Corey Wayne specifically so I just pointed out that I don't think he's a good idea.
Yeah, I feel that. Corey W was basically the dude who pulled me out of said dumps, which is why I mention him. I make sure to say: "dude is a weird trumper". I also agree of the slight PUA mindset of practice makes perfect, so they can figure out on their own what works for them and what doesn't, but obviously treating women like pieces of meat is a major no go from me. Like you said, I can just tune out the bullshit and take the actual good bits of advice that they offer.

Not trying to shit on you personally, because your point is sound. There's plenty to learn from guys like these when you're inexperienced. I just wish most of them didn't fall into the RedPill / PUA tropes.
Yeah, I agree. The biggest thing is finding someone who meshes with the way your logic works, if that makes sense. There is no red pill scenario, just constant learning and self-improvement.
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,747
I mentioned earlier about the girl I took out for V-day (Feb 15th), she made plans for the movies after and during V-day she had forgotten about the movie plan that we were supposed to go on Feb 17th. Shrugged it off because maybe she legit forgot, whatever... she got really sick the week after so didn't really bother asking her out that weekend

So on Monday (Feb 24th) I asked her if she was free the following weekend, told me her aunts visiting and she can't and that she's busy that week, she said she was free the following week or weekend. Figured she'd giving me an option for another day, she's interested still, told her the weekend is good.

Messaged her on Friday (28th) to ask her if she's free for today for a date idea that she suggested. She said she has yoga class and I was like um, what about another day, and she asked what it was, and I said paint night (the date idea she suggested), she responded with excitement (her exact reaction was ooooo) but that's it. No follow through with another day when I gave her the option. Just that single reaction.

Decided that was that, and I'm not contacting her again. She responded to an IG live story with an emoji on Monday, but please lol, I need her to actually reach out and make contact. The texts become more and more sparse after V-Day, she hasn't called in a while too after she got sick, so time to move on.

She might just want extra followers rather than anything romantic if she's not giving you her phone number, at least that's what it has been from my experience.
For the record, I prefer Snapchat too because it's like giving out a number with the ability to block people, but honestly, it's a lot easier to exchange pictures too because you know they were taken at that exact moment.

People that hand out their IG are the ones looking for follows unless they actually are the rare people that want to just look at more pictures and talk.
 
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Brewm0nt

Member
Dec 22, 2017
273
I'm in such a weird situation with respect to dating and my ex.

I casually started dating someone who then became a long term girlfriend. We moved across the country together for work and became very close over 3 and a half years. The problem is: her parents are super judgemental assholes and did not like me from the very start. Eventually this became too much to overcome, and we split up, despite all the feelings still being there.

In the following year, we would reach out to each other here and there, hooked up a few times, and even went on a trip together (used to be our thing). She would text me that she loved me, and various "hey I still am so thankful for you" type messages. She has since moved back to our home state, and I am about to do the same, and I had in the back of my mind an idea that maybe she'd tell her parents to fuck off since there was still clearly a connection there.

Over that time, I tried twice to convince her to give us another shot and that we could actually confront her parents since we never really did before (hoping they'd get over it), but she would always come back with "even though I have feelings for you when we're together, it's not that simple; my parents are 100% not interested in us and that's not changing though I wish it could" After each of these times, we'd end up seeing each other after time had passed and things would be normal. Even a recently as NYE, I invited her out and she was all over me, giving me mixed signals. Also we were just both recently in our friend's wedding and she acted like my wedding date the whole weekend. You can see how I'd keep holding on to hope.

Little did I know that in the time since NYE and the wedding, she had visited a friend in Texas, hit it off with that friend's husband's cousin, and then went on a trip with him on Valentine's Day weekend. This is someone who was all about doing what was "realistic" with respect to us and even took a long time for us to get to a point like that. According to that friend, she has no intent on anything serious with him and isn't thinking about moving or anything, which has pissed the friend off because she is messing with family now. When my ex tells me about this (excluding all the info about who the guy is and how quickly this all happened) she tries to paint it as "this was always going to hard when we started seeing other people, I understand how you feel, I couldn't keep things platonic when I'm with you and didn't know how to stop and still stay on good terms"

I basically told her I was beyond done having my emotions jerked around and peaced out. I feel very vulnerable because I was so miserable in the city we lived in, without her, and knew I was going to move back home so I didn't really try to meet other people. I think it's a completely different situation than us splitting up, not talking, and her eventually finding a legit relationship. She's been living with her parents since she moved back 6 months ago, and seems to be trading me for another person she can use to feel good since she doesn't know what she wants in life. It just hurts so much to think of her with anyone else given how intensely in love we were for so long and how she basically used me for a year.

Looking back, I maybe thought the relationship was something that it wasn't, and despite her and everyone telling me I couldn't have done anything differently to save it, it still feels like a failure and rejection of me. I'm now turning 33 this summer, am going to be living in the same area as her, and I guess I'll start looking into local activities to meet people. It just feels like such a waste of my time, money, and effort and I have little positivity to be trying to open myself up again to someone new.

I guess I'm just venting, but need advice on how to move on from such a colossal change in my life, and betrayal by someone I thought I knew.
 

jdstorm

Member
Jan 6, 2018
3,920
What's the reason to avoid a phone number, for security? Fair enough, if people are getting dates through Snapchat, and things go from there where if things work out they exchange phone numbers, great.

You lost me at Trumper my dude but maybe that's not a dealbreaker for some here who can excuse the white supremacy lol, and reading about him just through a simple search, there's a lot of teaching how to manipulate women and seems quite anti-feminist.
We can just call a spade a spade and say it’s abusive.

....

So as Era knows I had a really tough decision to make a few months ago trying to decide between two people in the end I went with my current partner (it’s great, we are really happy) and another girl (nicknamed Marsha) ended up being someone I rejected. (We never actually met due to scheduling issues)

due to a change of circumstances and pure happenstance I ended up crossing paths with Marsha the other day while we were both at work. It was a brief interaction, she didn’t know that we sort of knew each other, and I definitely didn’t bring it up. She was somehow more impressive in real life then online
 
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Nov 17, 2017
9,376
Yeah, I feel that. Corey W was basically the dude who pulled me out of said dumps, which is why I mention him. I make sure to say: "dude is a weird trumper". I also agree of the slight PUA mindset of practice makes perfect, so they can figure out on their own what works for them and what doesn't, but obviously treating women like pieces of meat is a major no go from me. Like you said, I can just tune out the bullshit and take the actual good bits of advice that they offer.
I also was in the dumps of dating at one point in college. Googled some basic dating advice questions, which led to finding dating coaches like Corey Wayne (not sure if it was him specifically) and eventually found myself browsing a redpill reddit. While I didn't quite know what it was exactly when I went in there and I never actually made an account and joined that community, I read the posts and the toxic mindset creeped into my head. The fact that there were other guys there who were failing at dating made it an echo chamber of negative mindsets and an ultra focus on getting women no matter what. It had a way of reinforcing my negative feelings and justifying them. "Oh I'm not getting women because they're all like this!" or "Oh I'm not getting women because I'm not enough of a man!"

After like a week or so of deep reading this stuff, I couldn't get over the gross feeling I got from it though. Like you said, they see women as pieces of meat. The more I read, the more I felt that these people really just hated women and honestly, hated men too. Even if they were just giving general advice, that mindset was all wrapped up in it - like I said, in its DNA. So I stopped reading that reddit and really stopped reading any advice that skewed towards PUA/Red Pill like these Corey Wayne videos. I didn't want to be that kind of person. But that's just me and I'm sure there are other guys who would not realize how gross that stuff is and just get sucked in deeper to it. Not that it excuses them for believing those things but it's why I say be really careful about recommending people that kind of stuff. I avoid recommending it at all.
 

Pelicano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
804
I also was in the dumps of dating at one point in college. Googled some basic dating advice questions, which led to finding dating coaches like Corey Wayne (not sure if it was him specifically) and eventually found myself browsing a redpill reddit. While I didn't quite know what it was exactly when I went in there and I never actually made an account and joined that community, I read the posts and the toxic mindset creeped into my head. The fact that there were other guys there who were failing at dating made it an echo chamber of negative mindsets and an ultra focus on getting women no matter what. It had a way of reinforcing my negative feelings and justifying them. "Oh I'm not getting women because they're all like this!" or "Oh I'm not getting women because I'm not enough of a man!"

After like a week or so of deep reading this stuff, I couldn't get over the gross feeling I got from it though. Like you said, they see women as pieces of meat. The more I read, the more I felt that these people really just hated women and honestly, hated men too. Even if they were just giving general advice, that mindset was all wrapped up in it - like I said, in its DNA. So I stopped reading that reddit and really stopped reading any advice that skewed towards PUA/Red Pill like these Corey Wayne videos. I didn't want to be that kind of person. But that's just me and I'm sure there are other guys who would not realize how gross that stuff is and just get sucked in deeper to it. Not that it excuses them for believing those things but it's why I say be really careful about recommending people that kind of stuff. I avoid recommending it at all.
So even though I was in the dumps, my logic by default is "How can I fix this weakness of mine", not in a negative sense, but in a constructive kind of way. The streak of 3 women that I fumbled through, were super hot and smart. The fact that they were all really into me, but weren't shortly after hooking up / lots of text from me, sent me a clear message on what the issue was. So it wasn't that I was hopeless with women, but that I didn't know how to keep them around after I had initiated/hooked up with them a few times. Corey Wayne is actually really good in regards to this process, since he coaches to date/wife and not to PUA, at least in his first book.

I also didn't really get into forum posting/redditing about this, since that's basically like consulting amateurs. I focused mostly on books/videos/courses on dudes whose overall philosophy on dating/self-learning I could get behind. I honestly keep suggesting it, because it's worth the risk. If a guy who's terrible at dating becomes some incel thing, that's not my problem, he had deeper rooted issues. Since there are gonna be a few guys whose life will completely and utterly change for the better. Getting into this stuff honestly had an insane effect on my life and for the best. I want more people to experience that, so I'll gamble with my recommendations.
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,747
I also was in the dumps of dating at one point in college. Googled some basic dating advice questions, which led to finding dating coaches like Corey Wayne (not sure if it was him specifically) and eventually found myself browsing a redpill reddit. While I didn't quite know what it was exactly when I went in there and I never actually made an account and joined that community, I read the posts and the toxic mindset creeped into my head. The fact that there were other guys there who were failing at dating made it an echo chamber of negative mindsets and an ultra focus on getting women no matter what. It had a way of reinforcing my negative feelings and justifying them. "Oh I'm not getting women because they're all like this!" or "Oh I'm not getting women because I'm not enough of a man!"

After like a week or so of deep reading this stuff, I couldn't get over the gross feeling I got from it though. Like you said, they see women as pieces of meat. The more I read, the more I felt that these people really just hated women and honestly, hated men too. Even if they were just giving general advice, that mindset was all wrapped up in it - like I said, in its DNA. So I stopped reading that reddit and really stopped reading any advice that skewed towards PUA/Red Pill like these Corey Wayne videos. I didn't want to be that kind of person. But that's just me and I'm sure there are other guys who would not realize how gross that stuff is and just get sucked in deeper to it. Not that it excuses them for believing those things but it's why I say be really careful about recommending people that kind of stuff. I avoid recommending it at all.
I think there's more healthier coaches out there that focus on things like, just being a healthier person outside of your relationship. Focusing on yourself. Attracting people by having your own life and being confident in being you. It's interesting seeing THAT being the pillars of a dating coach but yeah, some of them aren't toxic. Or maybe it's because the one I looked up happened to be two females.
 

Brewm0nt

Member
Dec 22, 2017
273
Ouch, did you move because of her in the first place? If you 2 were no living next to her parents for all those years, I fail to see how them not liking you was such a big deal, but wtv. I think that all that you can do is move on, she's clearly not ready/doesn't want a serious relationship with you, best of luck.
Yeah, they weren't near us, but it's made me realize just how much they still treated/treat her like a child. They would constantly call and pester her, would flip out if she mentioned doing anything serious with me and basically make her life a living hell. She said she had so many fights with them about us, and shielded me from that because I "didn't deserve to be thrown to the wolves like that", so I would go months not hearing about them, thinking things were improved and then she'd have a talk with me about it.

I think it was just the sunk cost fallacy where I wanted to prove to myself and to her that we could work, but maybe it was doomed from the start. Now I feel bad for the fact that she wanted us to be on good terms, because I always told myself I'd handle a potential break up with her like that given the circumstances, but the last year and all her actions make me feel like I can't. I'm just so hurt.
 
Nov 17, 2017
9,376
I think there's more healthier coaches out there that focus on things like, just being a healthier person outside of your relationship. Focusing on yourself. Attracting people by having your own life and being confident in being you. It's interesting seeing THAT being the pillars of a dating coach but yeah, some of them aren't toxic. Or maybe it's because the one I looked up happened to be two females.
Oh for sure, there are better dating coaches out there. There are just those ones that you look at their stuff and you can just tell there's a toxic mindset behind it.


I also didn't really get into forum posting/redditing about this, since that's basically like consulting amateurs. I focused mostly on books/videos/courses on dudes whose overall philosophy on dating/self-learning I could get behind. I honestly keep suggesting it, because it's worth the risk. If a guy who's terrible at dating becomes some incel thing, that's not my problem, he had deeper rooted issues. Since there are gonna be a few guys whose life will completely and utterly change for the better. Getting into this stuff honestly had an insane effect on my life and for the best. I want more people to experience that, so I'll gamble with my recommendations.
Well, incels are one thing. If you become a full blown incel, there's definitely more to it but when it comes to taking in certain toxic PUA/Red Pill opinions, that's a real possibility. A guy can change for the better overall when it comes to dating but still believe in something like "shit tests" without even knowing it by that term. Which is why, at least for me, I don't feel comfortable suggesting a source of information that requires you to maneuver through so much toxic waste. I'd much rather just explain what I feel is a good lesson to take from there.
 

Pelicano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
804
Oh for sure, there are better dating coaches out there. There are just those ones that you look at their stuff and you can just tell there's a toxic mindset behind it.



Well, incels are one thing. If you become a full blown incel, there's definitely more to it but when it comes to taking in certain toxic PUA/Red Pill opinions, that's a real possibility. A guy can change for the better overall when it comes to dating but still believe in something like "shit tests" without even knowing it by that term. Which is why, at least for me, I don't feel comfortable suggesting a source of information that requires you to maneuver through so much toxic waste. I'd much rather just explain what I feel is a good lesson to take from there.
Oh I definitely agree with that. It's just that I can't expect people who are striving to self-improve to strictly rely on my posts on Era, so unfortunately, the best avenue is to follow people who have a lot of content and pick the values that most fit with their lifestyle. As far as shit tests go, I kind of like the term, since it's essentially identifying a specific behavior women have, but I guess I like the fact that it's a specific term than the term itself.

We are pretty much agreeing though, you are just on one side of the fence and I on the other, the fence is just in regards to coaching styles.
 

jdstorm

Member
Jan 6, 2018
3,920
So even though I was in the dumps, my logic by default is "How can I fix this weakness of mine", not in a negative sense, but in a constructive kind of way. The streak of 3 women that I fumbled through, were super hot and smart. The fact that they were all really into me, but weren't shortly after hooking up / lots of text from me, sent me a clear message on what the issue was. So it wasn't that I was hopeless with women, but that I didn't know how to keep them around after I had initiated/hooked up with them a few times. Corey Wayne is actually really good in regards to this process, since he coaches to date/wife and not to PUA, at least in his first book.

I also didn't really get into forum posting/redditing about this, since that's basically like consulting amateurs. I focused mostly on books/videos/courses on dudes whose overall philosophy on dating/self-learning I could get behind. I honestly keep suggesting it, because it's worth the risk. If a guy who's terrible at dating becomes some incel thing, that's not my problem, he had deeper rooted issues. Since there are gonna be a few guys whose life will completely and utterly change for the better. Getting into this stuff honestly had an insane effect on my life and for the best. I want more people to experience that, so I'll gamble with my recommendations.
Being able to self promote your ability to manipulate and be emotionally abusive to women hardly makes someone an expert on dating and relationships.

Typically that’s a psychology degree.
 

Pelicano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
804
Being able to self promote your ability to manipulate and be emotionally abusive to women hardly makes someone an expert on dating and relationships.

Typically that’s a psychology degree.
I see dating as a skill you can get better at, just like literally anything else. In the end, getting good at it has a positive effect on you and all the women you take out on dates as well, since you both have a great time. Eventually you find a girl that sweeps you off your feet or you just stay single forever, whatever floats your boat. This may be a bit risque on this forum, but girls do want guys who know what they're doing.
 
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Notaskwid

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,507
Osaka
I see dating as a skill you can get better at, just like literally anything else. In the end, getting good at it has a positive effect on you and all the women you take out on dates as well, since you both have a great time. Eventually you find a girl that sweeps you off your feet or you just stay single forever, whatever floats your boat. This may be a bit risque on this forum, but girls do want guys who know what they're doing.
See, you and these dating gurus talk about "girls" like they are this monolithic entity that are the there for you, the "alpha male", to pick up as long as you know how to press the right combination of buttons. Basically, among other things, removing any agency that girls have in any of this. I hope you can see how this is extremely sexist.
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,747
See, you and these dating gurus talk about "girls" like they are this monolithic entity that are the there for you, the "alpha male", to pick up as long as you know how to press the right combination of buttons. Basically, among other things, removing any agency that girls have in any of this. I hope you can see how this is extremely sexist.
Also, how come the number one advice these guys give when a girl pulls away, you pull away too... is that what people really do? What happens if both people pull away and never come back lol?
 
Nov 17, 2017
9,376
As far as shit tests go, I kind of like the term, since it's essentially identifying a specific behavior women have, but I guess I like the fact that it's a specific term than the term itself.
That's my problem with it; "a specific behavior women have." Why do you think that? "Shit tests" are something anyone can do to you. Men do it too.

I dislike that type of thing because it almost frames women as your enemy. Like they're an opponent but also an objective in a game - she's your goal but she's also actively trying to stop you from reaching her. Like you have to pass her tests and solve the puzzle that is her in order to be worthy. Much like a game, these are expected and predictable behaviors like they're a programmed AI. When she gives you a shit test, you know exactly what to do to pass. Your practiced and studied dating strategy ends up mostly being how to manipulate this AI to do what you want it to. I don't know, I just think it's sexist BS at its core even if you can strip out some isolated bits that are good.
 

McBryBry

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,244
That's my problem with it; "a specific behavior women have." Why do you think that? "Shit tests" are something anyone can do to you. Men do it too.

I dislike that type of thing because it almost frames women as your enemy. Like they're an opponent but also an objective in a game - she's your goal but she's also actively trying to stop you from reaching her. Like you have to pass her tests and solve the puzzle that is her in order to be worthy. Much like a game, these are expected and predictable behaviors like they're a programmed AI. When she gives you a shit test, you know exactly what to do to pass. Your practiced and studied dating strategy ends up mostly being how to manipulate this AI to do what you want it to. I don't know, I just think it's sexist BS at its core even if you can strip out some isolated bits that are good.
The craziest part to me is, like you said, sometimes the woman is viewed as enemy. Yet, they want to get with a woman. What kind of relationship are they even trying to get to if they view what they want as a game or enemy? The entire philosophy is just 'does not compute' for me, even if for some in-explainable reason I were to say 'ok so let's say they are a game instead of a person.' (Which I would never do, just to make doubly clear)
 

Aine

Member
May 27, 2019
1,808
Generally a good idea to avoid anyone who claim themselves as "dating coaches" or any sort of PUA like the plague. People like that only feed into toxic ideas about sex and relationships.
 

Scotch

Member
Oct 28, 2017
135
So as Era knows I had a really tough decision to make a few months ago trying to decide between two people in the end I went with my current partner (it’s great, we are really happy) and another girl (nicknamed Marsha) ended up being someone I rejected. (We never actually met due to scheduling issues)

due to a change of circumstances and pure happenstance I ended up crossing paths with Marsha the other day while we were both at work. It was a brief interaction, she didn’t know that we sort of knew each other, and I definitely didn’t bring it up. She was somehow more impressive in real life then online
Ruh-roh... I don't like the sound of this. #team-airplanegirl ;)
 

Pelicano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
804
See, you and these dating gurus talk about "girls" like they are this monolithic entity that are the there for you, the "alpha male", to pick up as long as you know how to press the right combination of buttons. Basically, among other things, removing any agency that girls have in any of this. I hope you can see how this is extremely sexist.
I think you have it twisted around. Women are people, they are not the enemy. I love spending time with them. They also have all the right in the world to tell you to fuck off if you do something stupid or offensive.

I was on a date last night and it went super well. I was not analyzing the girl as a game or a puzzle. I was just going with flow, being funny and charming, teasing her, and overall having a great time. I got to that point by "studying" and knowing what works and what doesn't, while still being 100% true to myself and talking about anime/dungeons and dragons + whatever.

Chicks literally talk about what they do to attract guys between themselves, I don't get why this is any different. I do admit that PUA/coaches in general take it too far, but there are valuable lessons to be had. If people want to figure it out on their own, so be it.

That's my problem with it; "a specific behavior women have." Why do you think that? "Shit tests" are something anyone can do to you. Men do it too.

I dislike that type of thing because it almost frames women as your enemy. Like they're an opponent but also an objective in a game - she's your goal but she's also actively trying to stop you from reaching her. Like you have to pass her tests and solve the puzzle that is her in order to be worthy. Much like a game, these are expected and predictable behaviors like they're a programmed AI. When she gives you a shit test, you know exactly what to do to pass. Your practiced and studied dating strategy ends up mostly being how to manipulate this AI to do what you want it to. I don't know, I just think it's sexist BS at its core even if you can strip out some isolated bits that are good.
So it's things that dude's do as well, but in general guys deal with "guy shit tests" differently, because it's one of the guys. However when it's a girl, they get anxious and lose their composure. That's basically the lesson in all of this, women are people too, not some superior (or inferior) life form. Just human beings. That's the #1 reason why guys have problems with girls, because they see them as another species entirely. My entire point is just that some of the shit that PUA dudes spew is complete sexist shit, but there are nuggets of wisdom that really do help with confidence / self-improvement, etc. It's up to the person doing the learning not to become a sexist douche.
 
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Nov 17, 2017
9,376
The craziest part to me is, like you said, sometimes the woman is viewed as enemy. Yet, they want to get with a woman. What kind of relationship are they even trying to get to if they view what they want as a game or enemy? The entire philosophy is just 'does not compute' for me, even if for some in-explainable reason I were to say 'ok so let's say they are a game instead of a person.' (Which I would never do, just to make doubly clear)
Yeah, the common discourse about these "shit tests" is that women will throw them your way at some point and you need to pass them to prove your masculinity or worth or whatever. I just question why I'd ever want to be with someone (even casually) who is constantly testing me like that. I can only imagine that the guys who believe this aren't in healthy relationships but instead ones where they're always needing to maintain control. Sounds exhausting.

Ruh-roh... I don't like the sound of this. #team-airplanegirl ;)
Marsha better stay off Airplane Girl's turf. She had her chance. #teamairplanegirl


I think you have it twisted around. Women are people. They have all the right in the world to tell you to fuck off if you do something stupid or offensive.

I was on a date last night and it went super well. I was not analyzing the girl as a game or a puzzle. I was just going with flow, being funny and charming, teasing her, and overall having a great time. I got to that point by "studying" and knowing what works and what doesn't, while still being 100% true to myself and talking about anime/dungeons and dragons + whatever.

Chicks literally talk about what they do to attract guys between themselves, I don't get why this is any different. I do admit that PUA/coaches in general take it too far, but there are valuable lessons to be had. If people want to figure it out on their own, so be it.
I don't think people are saying that you can't talk about what you should do to have a better dating experience or how to be more attractive to people. Earlier you said something about it being "risque" to say guys should know what they're doing with dating. I don't think that's really the case or else this entire thread would not exist. It's just, like you said, PUA/coaches in general take it too far.
 

Pelicano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
804
Yeah, the common discourse about these "shit tests" is that women will throw them your way at some point and you need to pass them to prove your masculinity or worth or whatever. I just question why I'd ever want to be with someone (even casually) who is constantly testing me like that. I can only imagine that the guys who believe this aren't in healthy relationships but instead ones where they're always needing to maintain control. Sounds exhausting.


Marsha better stay off Airplane Girl's turf. She had her chance. #teamairplanegirl



I don't think people are saying that you can't talk about what you should do to have a better dating experience or how to be more attractive to people. Earlier you said something about it being "risque" to say guys should know what they're doing with dating. I don't think that's really the case or else this entire thread would not exist. It's just, like you said, PUA/coaches in general take it too far.
Yeah, I get that. Just bringing it up in here though stirred up the hornet's nest. Then people post they're having issues with self-confidence / anxiety / performance. They best way to overcome all of these things is learn and keep trying. While you're at it might as well steal some info from dudes who throw themselves into the "game" without subjecting yourself to the sexist shit they do to find out what works and what doesn't. Just because their angle is wrong, doesn't mean the information is worthless.
 

Supa Necta

Member
Oct 25, 2017
434
This whole experience has been eye opening. 2 women have essentially told me that they’ve fallen hard and are upset I’m still in the apps and going on dates. They said they’re done and keep messaging me.

I’ve got another first date tonight. She will be the youngest I’ve met yet (34 to my 40).

There’s another that I haven’t met IRL yet, but our connection seems the strongest. We have plans to meet sometime next week.

And last but not least is the one that’s perfect on paper and I really like. She has a great job, owns her home, has a child the same age as mine, is brilliant, funny, and we share a ton in common. She’s really the best match for me and I guess I just need some advice. Do I keep up on the apps and with the few women I’m meeting, or drop everyone but her?
 

Pelicano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
804
This whole experience has been eye opening. 2 women have essentially told me that they’ve fallen hard and are upset I’m still in the apps and going on dates. They said they’re done and keep messaging me.

I’ve got another first date tonight. She will be the youngest I’ve met yet (34 to my 40).

There’s another that I haven’t met IRL yet, but our connection seems the strongest. We have plans to meet sometime next week.

And last but not least is the one that’s perfect on paper and I really like. She has a great job, owns her home, has a child the same age as mine, is brilliant, funny, and we share a ton in common. She’s really the best match for me and I guess I just need some advice. Do I keep up on the apps and with the few women I’m meeting, or drop everyone but her?
Don't drop everyone and don't uninstall the apps. It's way too early to fall this hard for a girl (the last one) and way too early to kill your app since you've been on 1-2 dates with those first girls. It's cool to think that last girl is definitely your type, but you never want to put all your eggs in one basket without even meeting her in person. Just keep going out on dates and being yourself, since I can guarantee that if you listen to those first girls and kill your app, they will lose interest quickly. Things will work themselves out.

edit: Also the above is why I recommend coaches and stuff, since you would know what to do in this scenario i.e. keep dating since none of the girls has really done anything to warrant you committing to any of them.
 
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Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,772
UK
We can just call a spade a spade and say it’s abusive.

....

So as Era knows I had a really tough decision to make a few months ago trying to decide between two people in the end I went with my current partner (it’s great, we are really happy) and another girl (nicknamed Marsha) ended up being someone I rejected. (We never actually met due to scheduling issues)

due to a change of circumstances and pure happenstance I ended up crossing paths with Marsha the other day while we were both at work. It was a brief interaction, she didn’t know that we sort of knew each other, and I definitely didn’t bring it up. She was somehow more impressive in real life then online
Go away Marsha! #TeamAirplaneGirl
 

gimbles123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
120
Yeah, the common discourse about these "shit tests" is that women will throw them your way at some point and you need to pass them to prove your masculinity or worth or whatever. I just question why I'd ever want to be with someone (even casually) who is constantly testing me like that. I can only imagine that the guys who believe this aren't in healthy relationships but instead ones where they're always needing to maintain control. Sounds exhausting.
I think you have a warped perception of the types of lessons provided by these coaches (etc..) because of how they word them. Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you take issue with how analytical they make human interaction out to be. Using the "shit test" as an example; it isn't incorrect to suggest women/men say teasing, leading statements in order to suss out whether the other in the interaction can handle tension. The playbook of human interaction is fairly limited, and if you were to try to instruct someone in it, it only makes sense to differentiate commonly repeated elements categorically.
 

Rephil

Member
Nov 16, 2017
55
The analytical nature of explaining basic human interactions is whatever. My problem with it is the harsh language they use, and how they tend to frame their arguments/advice/encouragement - particularly when it comes to explaining the behavior of women, "alphas" and "betas". They just sound like fucking assholes who've reached a self-proclaimed 'secret enlightenment'.

Yes, there's some value to be found in the information these dudes are spouting if you severely boil down their takes - but it generally comes off as misogynistic, overly aggressive, selfish, and just plain gross in many cases. And a lot of guys who go looking for said advice, already feeling low and defeated in the dating world, sop it up like gospel - and then continue to tout the same bullshit to others in a vulnerable state, whilst internalizing it. They don't just take away the morsels like practice self-respect, groom yourself, be confident, learn to be comfortable with rejection, etc - they take away the "let's look at women as an alternate, lesser species we need to manipulate and get the edge over to selfishly satisfy our own sexual and emotional desires".

It's easy to over-estimate a person's ability to wade through the garbage and take away the good stuff - and this is why you have cesspools of PUA guys all over the internet. Sad, angry, frustrated people are impressionable when they're seeking help. I'd much rather direct people struggling with dating to check out much healthier resources and mentors to explore. Doesn't have to be specific to dating, either.
 
Nov 17, 2017
9,376
I think you have a warped perception of the types of lessons provided by these coaches (etc..) because of how they word them. Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you take issue with how analytical they make human interaction out to be. Using the "shit test" as an example; it isn't incorrect to suggest women/men say teasing, leading statements in order to suss out whether the other in the interaction can handle tension. The playbook of human interaction is fairly limited, and if you were to try to instruct someone in it, it only makes sense to differentiate commonly repeated elements categorically.
I think how they word them is incredibly important. Like the image quote I posted earlier “women are constantly testing their (men) strength and worthiness to determine if they are confident and alpha or indecisive and beta.”

Like as a man, I should always expect to be in this struggle with women to prove my manliness as they constantly test to make sure I’m “alpha” enough? I have to keep her in check on a regular basis by never showing weakness? The idea that women all act in a specific way and you need to constantly keep up this “frame” of hyper masculinity and security to keep them is really toxic. It’s not only demeaning to women but men too.

I don’t have a problem with analyzing human interactions. That’s done here in this thread all the time. It’s rather how they dehumanize women and promote a toxic standard of what masculinity is. Just the idea of alphas and betas is gross. Rephil explains my feelings very well here:

The analytical nature of explaining basic human interactions is whatever. My problem with it is the harsh language they use, and how they tend to frame their arguments/advice/encouragement - particularly when it comes to explaining the behavior of women, "alphas" and "betas". They just sound like fucking assholes who've reached a self-proclaimed 'secret enlightenment'.

Yes, there's some value to be found in the information these dudes are spouting if you severely boil down their takes - but it generally comes off as misogynistic, overly aggressive, selfish, and just plain gross in many cases. And a lot of guys who go looking for said advice, already feeling low and defeated in the dating world, sop it up like gospel - and then continue to tout the same bullshit to others in a vulnerable state, whilst internalizing it. They don't just take away the morsels like practice self-respect, groom yourself, be confident, learn to be comfortable with rejection, etc - they take away the "let's look at women as an alternate, lesser species we need to manipulate and get the edge over to selfishly satisfy our own sexual and emotional desires".

It's easy to over-estimate a person's ability to wade through the garbage and take away the good stuff - and this is why you have cesspools of PUA guys all over the internet. Sad, angry, frustrated people are impressionable when they're seeking help. I'd much rather direct people struggling with dating to check out much healthier resources and mentors to explore. Doesn't have to be specific to dating, either.
Well, thank you for saying this so I don’t have to spend the time saying it myself.
 

shoptroll

Member
May 29, 2018
1,226
Also, how come the number one advice these guys give when a girl pulls away, you pull away too... is that what people really do? What happens if both people pull away and never come back lol?
In my particular experience if someone pulls away it's usually not in your best interest to continuing to try and engage or maintain contact. When I was younger and dumber less socially apt on at least two occasions I turned people very off by being persistent when they were distancing themselves for various reasons. So I've internalized that if someone is putting up boundaries or trying to create some space it's a warning sign to start to tread much more carefully.

To chime in a little on the PUA cesspool in general, at the end of the day what matters is treating people with respect. I think a lot of the PUA stuff is pretty toxic because the objective isn't treating the other party with respect. Far from it. The mentality being that if you say the secret words, perform the arcane moves, etc. you'll magically get a woman into bed. That's de-humanizing and disrespectful because by the very nature of the advice you're removing the agency of the other party from the equation. Not to mention the fact that even if it does work, you're starting off the relationship from a place of manipulation and dishonesty. And in my opinion a good relationship should be rooted in trust, communication and respect. So you've already cut off two of the legs of the tripod that should serve as the stable foundation of a relationship.

Tangential note, one of the things I noticed online while looking at dating and relationship advice is that if you look at advice aimed at both men and women that there's actually very little that's specific to either gender. It's almost like human beings are human beings. Funny that.

It's easy to over-estimate a person's ability to wade through the garbage and take away the good stuff - and this is why you have cesspools of PUA guys all over the internet. Sad, angry, frustrated people are impressionable when they're seeking help. I'd much rather direct people struggling with dating to check out much healthier resources and mentors to explore. Doesn't have to be specific to dating, either.
Also said "coaches" are often selling their services, so they're particularly trying to profit off exploiting men who are in vulnerable state mentally and emotionally. Which is pretty gross in a different way.
 

jdstorm

Member
Jan 6, 2018
3,920
Ruh-roh... I don't like the sound of this. #team-airplanegirl ;)
Go away Marsha! #TeamAirplaneGirl
Lol. I’m very firmly team AirplaneGirl. We are currently exiting the honeymoon phase and are still very much in love. Our lives are very integrated and we have an upcoming romantic getaway that I have been helping plan/am very much looking forward too. Things are real good right now

As for Marsha, it was just a funny/amusing thing that I really wanted to share. It might lead to an awkward conversation with my boss if I have to call her for work purposes and my number has been blocked. But I can’t imagine us interacting much if at all given our respective schedules and very different jobs

I see dating as a skill you can get better at, just like literally anything else. In the end, getting good at it has a positive effect on you and all the women you take out on dates as well, since you both have a great time. Eventually you find a girl that sweeps you off your feet or you just stay single forever, whatever floats your boat. This may be a bit risque on this forum, but girls do want guys who know what they're doing.
Sure, people (regardless of gender) enjoy interacting with people with highly developed social skills and interesting hobbies. Who have their stuff together and enjoy their lives.

Eating/diet is also something you can do better or worse at. It’s easier to do with correct knowledge but still requires regular practice and consistency.

PUA are just FAD diets for dating. They tell you a whole bunch of things but the reason you see improved results is less about the collection of foods that you eat and more about Calorie counting that is new for many who FAD diet
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,747
I think I'm done dating for a while... took the v-day girl out, and then communication slowed down to a crawl, started wanting to stay home instead of coming out or being busy, and I wasn't sure what to do... haven't heard from her in a week. I hate that this happened.
 

jdstorm

Member
Jan 6, 2018
3,920
I think I'm done dating for a while... took the v-day girl out, and then communication slowed down to a crawl, started wanting to stay home instead of coming out or being busy, and I wasn't sure what to do... haven't heard from her in a week. I hate that this happened.
You got ghosted. She came up with BS excuses to avoid seeing you because she didn’t want to be the person to outright reject you. Despite wanting to reject you.

I’m sorry you experienced that. Rejection sucks in all it’s forms, especially ghosting.

If you want to take a break I’d understand, but don’t let this one experience get you down. It will happen again if you are online dating. It’s the nature of the medum
 

Lulu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,278
Hinge literally doesn't work for me. It's gotten worse over the past year but this most recent time around I've gotten zero matches. Not sure what the fuck is up with it but it wasn't always like this. Additional all I'm being thrown to swipe on are Instagram models.
 

Samurai G0SU

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,648
Denver, CO
Welp. just installed Hinge this morning. one step closer to getting my self back out there.
(i also realize i need more pictures with someone's help, so its not a bunch of pictures with distances of a selfie or mirror shot lol )
 
Nov 17, 2017
9,376
Hinge literally doesn't work for me. It's gotten worse over the past year but this most recent time around I've gotten zero matches. Not sure what the fuck is up with it but it wasn't always like this. Additional all I'm being thrown to swipe on are Instagram models.
I probably get the most likes on Hinge and most of the girls are down to Earth which is nice. I guess it must be a location thing.
 

Lulu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,278
I probably get the most likes on Hinge and most of the girls are down to Earth which is nice. I guess it must be a location thing.
I feel like it's bugged or something. I'm bummed about it because I too have met great people off of it. Hinge is also one of the only apps that will ban you for repeatedly deleting your profile. Kind of annoying. I live in NYC and I'm fairly attractive with good success on the other stuff.
 
Nov 17, 2017
9,376
I feel like it's bugged or something. I'm bummed about it because I too have met great people off of it. Hinge is also one of the only apps that will ban you for repeatedly deleting your profile. Kind of annoying. I live in NYC and I'm fairly attractive with good success on the other stuff.
It might be or maybe something with the algorithm is only giving you really highly liked profiles. I've never used Hinge in NYC but I've used Tinder multiple times there and I always got the impression that being the big destination city that it is, you tend to see more people who live the high life than usual. At least for me, I saw a bunch of model-looking girls on Tinder there.