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Jawbreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
New York City
I'd get fired from my editing job if I tweeted anything out akin to Danika's nonsense. Even her hyperbolic tweet about Naughty Dog's (predictably standard) statement being the worst one ever (regarding sexual harassment) is worthy of derision. Some serious unprofessionalism on display there.

I hope she's able to use it as a learning experience on what to refrain from tweeting in the future.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,424
Silicon Valley
I'd get fired from my editing job if I tweeted anything out akin to Danika's nonsense. Even her hyperbolic tweet about Naughty Dog's (predictably standard) statement being the worst one ever (regarding sexual harassment) is worthy of derision. Some serious unprofessionalism on display there.

I hope she's able to use it as a learning experience on what to refrain from tweeting in the future.
Some people connected to her began following me, and I them. Then I started seeing them retweet those posts of hers so I actually stopped following them. It's one thing to oppose something and another entirely to act like that. Especially considering if you actually work in the industry.
 

famikon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
ベラルーシ
jrw8wtX.png

https://twitter.com/danikaharrod/status/925403124302356480
example of modern "journalism" - harassment and insult in one tweet.
 

Jawbreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
New York City
Some people connected to her began following me, and I them. Then I started seeing them retweet those posts of hers so I actually stopped following them. It's one thing to oppose something and another entirely to act like that. Especially considering if you actually work in the industry.

Yeah, upon reading those tweets, all I could utter was, "Yikes." It's not acceptable. The industry needs to be better than this.
 

anyprophet

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
941
It's not that they are "crossing the line" but rather, the interviewer starts things off as plainly as he can but then goes on with stuff like:

I'm not disputing that at all. The concern I have is that it's using something like domestic abuse and child abuse - which is a very real issue for unfortunately far too many people - and using it as window dressing rather than exploring the ramifications of those issues.

Which is basically using a false pretense to frame the situation in a way that puts David in a weird spot no matter what he answers. The entire segment related to Kara in that house is literally about the ramifications of those issues. The entire thing plays out in a multitude of ways, but somehow being integral to that story as essentially a robotic maid/butler somehow turns it all into "window dressing".

There is other stuff like that and I do believe that Martin (the interviewer) may mean well, but also that was egging David on with those kinds of angles in order to try and get some red-blooded statements out of him to post everywhere he can market Eurogamer.

yeah I wonder why someone would take an adversarial position with David Cage. especially after that first answer he gave.
 

anyprophet

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
941
I'd get fired from my editing job if I tweeted anything out akin to Danika's nonsense. Even her hyperbolic tweet about Naughty Dog's (predictably standard) statement being the worst one ever (regarding sexual harassment) is worthy of derision. Some serious unprofessionalism on display there.

I hope she's able to use it as a learning experience on what to refrain from tweeting in the future.
what are you on about? naughty dog's response was extremely bad.
 

F4r0_Atak

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,516
Home
Have people forgotten that Quantic Dream hired additional writers for Detroit Become Human? Cage is not the sole writer for this game's story and dialogues.
 

Cripterion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,104
there's a minor cult of personality surrounding Cage and you know how easy it is to rile up the fanboys.

You sure you don't have it backwards? Most people actually seem to be shitting on the guy for whatever reason, acting like he murdered their dog or something. I get not liking someone's writing and all but maybe they could just avoid the man's games instead of constantly hating on it.

When is it ever ok for a "journalist" to tweet : retire bitch? Would you feel the same way if the man was posting on these forums what with the give everyone a fresh start?
 

Opto

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,546
It's not that they are "crossing the line" but rather, the interviewer starts things off as plainly as he can but then goes on with stuff like:

I'm not disputing that at all. The concern I have is that it's using something like domestic abuse and child abuse - which is a very real issue for unfortunately far too many people - and using it as window dressing rather than exploring the ramifications of those issues.

Which is basically using a false pretense to frame the situation in a way that puts David in a weird spot no matter what he answers. The entire segment related to Kara in that house is literally about the ramifications of those issues. The entire thing plays out in a multitude of ways, but somehow being integral to that story as essentially a robotic maid/butler somehow turns it all into "window dressing".

There is other stuff like that and I do believe that Martin (the interviewer) may mean well, but also that was egging David on with those kinds of angles in order to try and get some red-blooded statements out of him to post everywhere he can market Eurogamer.
Cage could have answered like you did. But he didn't. He answered that he wasn't exploring child abuse, that the game wasn't about it. His answer of non-commitment makes the child abuse even more window dressing than it appeared to be.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,424
Silicon Valley
Was that it...? That's not a great look but I expected worse from the way people are talking.
While anyprophet can continue to pretend that being involved in the game industry means we shouldn't try to improve it and rather drag it down in the dirt, the fact of the matter is that she represents Waypoint.

Me liking or disliking games by Quantic Dreams has nothing to do with it at this point. Gaming "journalism" is not immune to the harmful aspects of how politics and immaturity stifle progress and proper reporting across all media.
 

F4r0_Atak

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,516
Home
Cage could have answered like you did. But he didn't. He answered that he wasn't exploring child abuse, that the game wasn't about it. His answer of non-commitment makes the child abuse even more window dressing than it appeared to be.

It doesn't mean the game isn't exploring child abuse that it becomes automatically window dressing. Child Abuse, while not the main focus of the game, is not just to give context to Kara's presence. It is also a trigger to Kara's development toward self consciousness/awareness and freedom. This event seem to be detrimental to Kara's story. I trust it will be tackled seriously as the trailer showed, with the daughter being speechless and having drawings of her dad breaking the last android maid hidden in her stuff. Although, it won't be done for the sake of talking about child abuse in general, but to talk about the reaction one would have if stuck in a situation like this.
 

MegaBeefBowl

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,890
I'm really not sure what the interviewer was looking for here? David Cage to come out and say "You totally got me I only included child abuse because it felt like an easy way to make the player feel something and its inconsequential to the whole of the game!" ??

I'm no fan of David Cage, his games are horribly written, but I fail to see the point of these questions. My only guess is that the interviewer was hoping for a harsher reaction, therefore creating a bigger story than just some interview.
 

Opto

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,546
It doesn't mean the game isn't exploring child abuse that it becomes automatically window dressing. Child Abuse, while not the main focus of the game, is not just to give context to Kara's presence. It is also a trigger to Kara's development toward self consciousness/awareness and freedom. This event seem to be detrimental to Kara's story. I trust it will be tackled seriously as the trailer showed, with the daughter being speechless and having drawings of her dad breaking the last android maid hidden in her stuff. Although, it won't be done for the sake of talking about child abuse in general, but to talk about the reaction one would have if stuck in a situation like this.
Again, why didn't Cage say this! This is a response that's so much better. We wouldn't be here if he could A) be as thoughtful in his responses as you are and B) had a resume to back up his intensions.
 

Bio

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,370
Denver, Colorado
Idk I can't really think of the last movie I saw that had abuse featured in its marketing campaign. It's not that games can't tackle these issues, it's just really fucking weird to see so many games actively trading on them.

I think that's my biggest issue with Cage here. And other narrative driven studios that I think are guilty of this as well like Ninja Theory and Naughty Dog. They seem to be selling EMOTION and trauma as proof of advancement, no differently than other studios might sell poly count or matchmaking algorithms. They put these really serious scenes without context in promotional material and talk about them in interviews to sell them to an audience under the premise of "games can do this now".

So I'm on the interviewers side here. If you're going to sell these scenes to us, be prepared to answer questions about them. Especially the most basic one of "why do this"?

There's no way to market Hellblade honestly without featuring the mental anguish that Senua is going through, because that is literally the game, and I think Ninja Theory handled the topic of mental illness with the honesty, maturity and nuance topics like that deserve.
 

Landford

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
The main thing about his response, from my experience playing his games, is that the "context" he so much promises is never there. There will be a shower scene because it was "cool". There will be domestic abuse because is a cheap thing to do to rile the player up. You could say that even so, he is being faithful to what he wants to do, but the truth is, he isnt: He doesnt even commit to it. He doesnt say "Yeah, there is this brutal or horrific scene here because I wanted to convey this or that meaning.", Instead, he doesnt really have an answer as to why the scene is in the game. It came to him one night and he probably said, "Yeah, that will shock people."

We are talking about the guy who is making the game about "racial tensions" and a revolution of machines being enslaved, but when confronted with it, he said "His games are not political" for fear of generating controversy.
 

F4r0_Atak

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,516
Home
Man, forget about his track records. Just his interviews don't fill me with confidence.
I don't see what's wrong with this interview. Cage wants to give players' greater agency regarding how their stories unfold, which is good. We have more options, which can lead to greater risks making the wrong decision. It is also nice to know that he doesn't want to force some kind of morality or value on the players through the story of the game. That leaves a lot room for interpretation and allows the players to shape their choices as they see fit. After having played several times, the demo at Montreal Comic-Con, I am utterly excited to get my hands on the final product. :D
 

MacReady13

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
128
It sounds like he doesn't want to deal with an interviewer that's not-so-subtly showing him disrespect, honestly. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about Cage and his games, but the way he asked those questions was needlessly hostile.

Agreed. What a terrible interview. Wait till the game is out before passing judgement because you are offended by something...
 

gfxtwin

Use of alt account
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,159
Not a fan of David Cage. He has made a lot of bad movies. I would be interested in seeing him make a good game.

But he's not the jerk in that interview - the interviewer is. The proof is in the fact that the interviewer couldn't bring his point home, so in the end he just came off as a guy who antagonized someone who knows more about the subject he's being 'checked' on than he was given credit for.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
I do find it interesting how much scrutiny games get when they tackle serious issues, because people feel like they can't do those issues justice. At the same time we want games to involve as a medium and yet when some people try to, we try to tear them down because we don't think those people are worthy enough of those issues. He tries and maybe he will fail but that's fine, either he will learn from his failure or others will and we can try again. I agree with him when he says that the interviewer wouldn't ask the same from a film director, if a film director wants to do a movie about domestic abuse or another "serious" issue, people don't question why they felt like they had do a story about that. And if they do it's asking more what drives them to make a story about X issue and not an antagonistic phrased question where the subtext is, "you're exploiting this issue and you're not capable of using this as theme".

[edit]
Nice job, Waypoint. Real classy.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
I do find it interesting how much scrutiny games get when they tackle serious issues, because people feel like they can't do those issues justice. At the same time we want games to involve as a medium and yet when some people try to, we try to tear them down because we don't think those people are worthy enough of those issues. He tries and maybe he will fail but that's fine, either he will learn from his failure or others will and we can try again. I agree with him when he says that the interviewer wouldn't ask the same from a film director, if a film director wants to do a movie about domestic abuse or another "serious" issue, people don't question why they felt like they had do a story about that. And if they do it's asking more what drives them to make a story about X issue and not an antagonistic phrased question where the subtext is, "you're exploiting this issue and you're not capable of using this as theme".

[edit]

Nice job, Waypoint. Real classy.

Interviewers should exactly try these questions, is the medium wants to grow, devs needs to think a real answer to these questions. Cage has been trying to tell meaningful stories for years and he has been failling in a lot of these issues since, is not his first try exactly.

We shouldn't think "why are they asking these questions?" Rather than "more ppl should ask these questions"
 

LossAversion

The Merchant of ERA
Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,656
I guess I should keep quiet about the fact that I've enjoyed all of Quantic Dream's games around here, huh?

Yikes.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
Interviewers should exactly try these questions, is the medium wants to grow, devs needs to think a real answer to these questions. Cage has been trying to tell meaningful stories for years and he has been failling in a lot of these issues since, is not his first try exactly.

We shouldn't think "why are they asking these questions?" Rather than "more ppl should ask these questions"
I reference exactly that at the end of my post. Film directors get asked these type of questions all the time by the interviewer isn't insulting them while doing it. That's the difference here.

Dave gets defensive here because the interviewer is being antagonistic. If the interviewer had asked these questions in good faith, and he would've gotten defensive, then I could see why there would be reason to criticize him. I don't fault anyone for putting walls up when they are being poked at.
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,430
I guess I should keep quiet about the fact that I've enjoyed all of Quantic Dream's games around here, huh?

Yikes.
Heh, I enjoyed the time I spent on Heavy Rain even though in the end I thought it was a flawed game. It's really weird seeing Cage act like he's breaking some new ground in games while he put outs what I'd qualify as mediocre VNs with high production values. Shit, Life Is Strange was going for the same niche and smashed all his output.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,873
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
I reference exactly that at the end of my post. Film directors get asked these type of questions all the time by the interviewer isn't insulting them while doing it. That's the difference here.

Dave gets defensive here because the interviewer is being antagonistic. If the interviewer had asked these questions in good faith, and he would've gotten defensive, then I could see why there would be reason to criticize him. I don't fault anyone for putting walls up when they are being poked at.
I think I'm on this side too. The questions themselves might be fair, and Cage's iffy track record and Milquetoast artistic ambitions don't inspire much confidence, but the interview doesn't seem like it was done in good faith. It comes off as antagonistic and unprofessional.
 

admartian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
71
So...we don't 'trust' Cage with interviews either....?

I do find it interesting how much scrutiny games get when they tackle serious issues, because people feel like they can't do those issues justice. At the same time we want games to involve as a medium and yet when some people try to, we try to tear them down because we don't think those people are worthy enough of those issues. He tries and maybe he will fail but that's fine, either he will learn from his failure or others will and we can try again. I agree with him when he says that the interviewer wouldn't ask the same from a film director, if a film director wants to do a movie about domestic abuse or another "serious" issue, people don't question why they felt like they had do a story about that. And if they do it's asking more what drives them to make a story about X issue and not an antagonistic phrased question where the subtext is, "you're exploiting this issue and you're not capable of using this as theme".

[edit]

Nice job, Waypoint. Real classy.


This. 100% this.