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David Jaffe- AAA games are dying (creatively speaking)

FluxWaveZ

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
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Oct 25, 2017
10,887
That argument is a bit nonsense, but I can see the perspective. The thing is, if your argument hinges on Uncharted 1 and Uncharted 4 being mechanically similar on a superficial level, that kind of reductivist point can be made about anything to drive a narrative. It's not an honest argument.
 

Deleted member 5621

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
"ERA posters dismiss developer opinion with decades of experience based on a thread title and their dislike of his last couple games instead of listening to his points"
 
ElephantShell

ElephantShell

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Saying "sequels to AAA games are all the same" and "AAA games are dying" seem like two very different thoughts and I'm not sure they're related.
 
A real sad boy

A real sad boy

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Oct 25, 2017
1,146
Coming from a guy that has been trying to chase nostalgia dollars since he got kicked off being lead of the God of War franchise this is a real hot take.

Does anyone remember Calling All Cars? How about that bad Twisted Metal reboot? Or his awesome arena shooter Drawn to Death?

You know, the one that got savaged in reviews and that nobody played so it got shut down.

When nobody wants to fund your projects anymore because they completely miss the mark and everyone stops caring about you, you start a low-effort YouTube show and spout hot takes about games better than yours and developers better than you.


Can't wait until Jaffe, Dyack, and Clifford get together to start 'Pretty Bad Developers', the hottest YouTube channel for washed creative leads.

Go make a bad battle royale game for mobile with some big food company in Asia or something, Jaffe.
 
Hailinel

Hailinel

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Oct 27, 2017
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Is this just sour grapes for the new God of War succeeding in part because it called out all of the bullshit baggage the series carried from GoW1 through...what was it, seven games of senseless rage and sex minigames?

Like, Jaffe. Dude.
 

-COOLIO-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,125
i'm halfway through and he's not talking about sales y'all, check out the video.

Kilic95 said:
Good to know you can cherrypick a sequence from one AAA videogame series, and that spells doom for the entire market.
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i mean, do you really feel like AAA games have been innovative? personally, i think mainstream games are even less innovative than mainstream movies and music
 
entremet

entremet

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Oct 26, 2017
59,973
So I"m down the David Jaffe rabbit hole. He's ranting about Thanksgiving his YT podcast lol.
 
Sid

Sid

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Mar 28, 2018
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Why did he reject working on the new God of War is beyond me, he had an opportunity to innovate right there...
 
Sliver

Sliver

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Oct 27, 2017
272
People should be banned for dumping their opinions in here based on the title alone. Fucking dreadful thread.
 
gundamkyoukai

gundamkyoukai

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Oct 25, 2017
21,088
The eg he used made no sense to say AAA dying .
The form of AAA games will change like how we all moving to GaaS but there will always be AAA games.
 
lazygecko

lazygecko

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Oct 25, 2017
3,628
There's nothing particularly insightful about those comments. I was expecting a lot more in depth analysis about the trajectory of the industry, coming from someone like Jaffe.
 
Spinluck

Spinluck

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Jaffe is gonna get crapped on here, but a lot of AAA franchises are certainly guilty of this. Doesn't make them bad, but there has been some stagnation and apathy towards them interest as far as my interest goes.
 
ShadowSwordmaster

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Oct 25, 2017
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-COOLIO- said:
i'm halfway through and he's not talking about sales y'all, check out the video.



i mean, do you really feel like AAA games have been innovative? personally, i think mainstream games are even less innovative than mainstream movies and music
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I would say you can expand this into Indie games. Despite what a few innovative games, the rest are basically taken from other games, but looks different or try to take different things from different games that AAA do too.
 

-COOLIO-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,125
hey it's that dog said:
Maybe somebody who has could summarize it for those of us who cannot watch a video!
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The gist: AAA games are sorely lacking in innovation.

80% of the comments on first page are indicative of people not watching the video and just being weirdly negative for no god damn reason. The Ralph Breaks the Internet comment scene comes to mind. Damn shame.
 
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
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Oct 26, 2017
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Summary:

Jaffe compares Uncharted 1 versus Uncharted 4 using two areas each. A climbing sequence in Uncharted and a climbing sequence in Uncharted 4. The other comparison is a shooting set piece.

He then says he loves ND and they have great execution, but he's not singling them out. He's just more familiar with the franchise since he played them all.

He's aware they have improved some--better storytelling, set pieces, mechanics, but that's not enough for him.

He says he loves the games but is tired to the same thing. He mentions it's the same thing with Far Cry, Gears of War and other AAA franchises and the gaming press should call it out.

No where does he mentions sales. He's talking as a gamer mostly.
 
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A real sad boy

A real sad boy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,146
Sid said:
Why did he reject working on the new God of War is beyond me, he had an opportunity to innovate right there...
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Dude was an absolute shit heel to work with on the first game. Any belief that Sony would want him back on one of their flagship games after that is misguided. He also has had several major bombs under them. The direction of the new God of War is all thanks to the genius of Cory Barlog, who previously made the best God of War with God of War 2
 
Rathorial

Rathorial

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Oct 28, 2017
578
There will always be a market for AAA games, but he's not wrong how little Uncharted has changed mechanically over time.

The only major mechanical additions to 4 was a rope, and driving a car during part of the game. Everything else were iterative improvements to the same core mechanics and systems. The series never had a GoW 2018 or AC: Origins gameplay shakeup.
 
hey it's that dog

hey it's that dog

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Oct 25, 2017
9,088
Sid said:
Why did he reject working on the new God of War is beyond me, he had an opportunity to innovate right there...
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Was he offered that opportunity?

I don't know, given his last decade of decisions and feelings about AAA development, I think the game was in better hands with Barlog and without Jaffe influence. Like, if Drawn to Death still reflects his sensibilities, is he the right fit for something like GOW 2018?
 
J_Macgrady

J_Macgrady

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Oct 25, 2017
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That Uncharted argument is silly. Why would games in the same franchise play drastically different from one another? I've only seen that happen with Resident Evil.
 
OP
OP
Borowski

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Spinluck said:
Jaffe is gonna get crapped on here, but a lot of AAA franchises are certainly guilty of this. Doesn't make them bad, but there has been some stagnation and apathy towards them interest as far as my interest goes.
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I partially agree with him

Look at the Far Cry series. It's basically always the same game with a new skin on top
 
Prine

Prine

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Hes washed up, not sure why anyone gives this guy any credence. AAA gaming is costly but then they're just as alive of not more so if you look at the popularity of home consoles and the type of games that dominate them.

Devilgunman said:
No. His game is though.
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Dead.
 

Deleted member 364

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
I think Jaffe is super smart, was hoping for a video with some depth or analysis though. This is basically saying nothing besides sequels in AAA series playing similar to each other. Duh.

I do like that he calls out critics though. They give 9/10 or 10/10 to the same games over and over again. RDR2 got away with murder on the gameplay front.
 
FluxWaveZ

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
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entremet said:
No where does the mentions sales. He's talking as a gamer mostly.
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Yeah. But we also live in 2018, where a title like that is either made intentionally or ignorantly. If you want your point to be taken seriously, you make an actual worthwhile title coherently summarizing your thesis, and you use more than a single clear example of what you're talking about. There's no depth here. No proper analysis.

Everything about the video and its all-caps title is basically meant to rile people up and seek attention, as it has successfully done (to a certain extent).
 

-COOLIO-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,125
ShadowSwordmaster said:
I would say you can expand this into Indie games. Despite what a few innovative games, the rest are basically taken from other games, but looks different or try to take different things from different games that AAA do too.
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and i'm super thankful for indie game devs and mostly buy indie at this point, but both the music and movie industries maintain wildly innovative indie scenes but also still manage to have somewhat innovative pop/mainsteam content as well. the videogame industry however, doest not.
 
hey it's that dog

hey it's that dog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,088
entremet said:
Summary:

Jaffe compares Uncharted 1 versus Uncharted 4 using two areas each. A climbing sequence in Uncharted and a climbing sequence in Uncharted 4. The other comparison is a shooting set piece.

He then says he loves ND and they have great execution, but he's not singling them out. He's just more familiar with the franchise since he played them all.

He's aware they have improved some--better storytelling, set pieces, mechanics, but that's not enough for him.

He says he loves the games but is tired to the same thing. He mentions it's the same thing Far Cry and other AAA franchises and the gaming press should call it out.

No where does the mentions sales. He's talking as a gamer mostly.
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Thank you.

Does he use the word "dying" or is that just a poor thread title? It's not an appropriate word unless he's talking about sales decline and eventual extinction of certain game types. Being tired of something doesn't mean it's dying.
 
antitrop

antitrop

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Oct 25, 2017
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Not being able to distinguish the mechanical differences between Uncharted 1 and 4 is something I expect from a random forum poster, not the game designer that helped create God of War.
 
DontHateTheBacon

DontHateTheBacon

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Oct 27, 2017
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As an expert on dead games, I guess I have to respect his opinion on the topic.

/snark

AAA games are not dying. And the Uncharted comparisons he's making are just silly.
 
Derrick01

Derrick01

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Oct 25, 2017
7,289
Funny because uncharted 4's shooting and overall combat design is a pretty big leap over the first 3 games which had a lot of bullshit like enemies spawning behind you and an over reliance on heavy enemies and enemy waves. The actual environments are much better built as well and allow for swinging around on drake's rope and using stealth which was a super limited option in 1-3.
 
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