David Jaffe (creator of God of War) has a bone to pick with ResetEra.

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ADee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
563
Sweden
Work on this phrasing. That person was always a woman.
I hope you understand what I meant.....

A question, if I find out that person who are a woman inside but a man outside. Am I transphobic for not finding her attractive....
Even if I found her attractive until she took her clothes of and had a penis?
 
Oct 27, 2017
552
Yea, I agree with this. Though not to open another can of worms, but I would be interested in knowing the kind of nurturing or upbringing someone would have had to have had, to have never found any person of X, Y or Z race attractive, over the span of their entire life. Ultimately "I've never been attracted to black women" could still just be a polite way for a racist to mask their racism without outright saying "black women are unattractive".

In that sense, even if one has preferences for certain races, it would still seem weird to me if they'd never been attracted to a person of a certain race in all their lives, especially today, in a time where because of social media, YouTube, the entertainment industry etc, there are prominent and popular examples of beauty promoted for all races, all around us.
I mean, people find the weirdest things unattractive. Some people arent' attracted to people with dark hair. Its not unreasonable to believe that some people wouldn't also be unattractive to skin tones.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,257
I hope you understand what I meant.....

A question, if I find out that person who are a woman inside but a man outside. Am I transphobic for not finding her attractive....
Even if I found her attractive until she took her clothes of and had a penis?
If you are not attracted to certain genitals, then no, that is not transphobic.

Your wording is a little messy though is what they mean. If you want to have it be a little smoother, you can just say "transwoman" for someone who was Assigned Male at Birth (AMAB) and transitioned later on.
 
Oct 25, 2017
84
Well this is obvious i would think....

they ARE not physically the same and to me that would matter since they cannot bear children (born man in this case)
Lots or cis women can't have babies. So if that is your reason then you would need to ask yourself if you would refuse to have sex with a super attractive cis women if you knew she was infertile.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,222
I want to point out that how, for me at least, a LOT of my frustration (beyond just the disappointment) with Jaffe in this case is that he's not engaging or integrating points made against him in any sort of sincere way, so he seems to primarily be going through the theater of argument/conflict. There can be value to talking openly about extreme topics like this, but when one party is just using the exchange as a confirming performance to appeal to others, that's no longer so. All that's being done is megaphoning views they're supposedly only championing "on principle." If the substance doesn't matter, that means they aren't even listening.

When someone's social privilege gives them so much "breathing space" that vouching for bad actors perusing things like child abuse and taking away basic rights based on race seems like a good use of their time, that person is deeply broken.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
552
Lots or cis women can't have babies. So if that is your reason then you would need to ask yourself if you would refuse to have sex with a super attractive cis women if you knew she was infertile.
There are also plenty of people who would refuse to have relationships with cis women who can't have babies.
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,617
I mean, people find the weirdest things unattractive. Some people arent' attracted to people with dark hair. Its not unreasonable to believe that some people wouldn't also be unattractive to skin tones.
Fair enough. I mean, to me it seems like such a sad and limiting thing, but it is what it is.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,447
This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.
oh boy.

I mean, people find the weirdest things unattractive. Some people arent' attracted to people with dark hair. Its not unreasonable to believe that some people wouldn't also be unattractive to skin tones.
I think this is true of some people.

They're just afraid of coming out with that opinion since its colorism (which is a world-wide issue). And it's sad, because colorism can be a natural preference, but some people have trouble admitting traits of themselves that are judged as character flaws in contemporary civilization.
 

ADee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
563
Sweden
If you are not attracted to certain genitals, then no, that is not transphobic.

Your wording is a little messy though is what they mean. If you want to have it be a little smoother, you can just say "transwoman" for someone who was Assigned Male at Birth (AMAB) and transitioned later on.
Ok thank you, to be perfectly honest I've never known anyone who ever identified herself/himself as the opposite gender of which they are born as on paper that is why I am very clumsy with the words and sadly a bit ignorant about it.

So sorry if I'm offending anyone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,934
I find it funny how today David is talking about trans issues as tactfully as a bull in a China shop when only yesterday he was using his trans audience against my defence of them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
869
This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.
..and the unwashed masses of the image boards and subreddits raised their fists in unison and shook with contempt only able to summon a single word in disgust:

ReeeeseeeeeteeeerrrAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Oct 26, 2017
12,820
These things are not conceptually hard. I've literally had this conversation with people.

"Not dating someone because of their race is racist"
"Well I'm not attracted to black women"
"Are you attracted to every white women then?"
"No"
"Well why not?"
"Well they dont all look the same"
"You think all black women look the same?"
". . . .Well there are certain features"
"There are certain features that exist in every black woman that you find undesireable but there are not features found in every white woman that make them all desireable to you? Do you know how fucking arbitrary and made up this all sounds?"
"Its just my preference"
"Its not even a real preference if it can't even pass basic logic tests. I'm not asking you hard questions. Do you not like dark skin?"
"No not that specifically?"
"Aight, what the fuck is the basis of you saying you dont like black women or any race in fact?"
". . . . Oh so I'm the bad guy now?"

Man shut the fuck up honestly. These people know the statement holds zero credibility on examination. But to admit their preferences are subject to racial bias is suddenly the hardest thing ever.
You ain't never lie.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,257
Ok thank you, to be perfectly honest I've never known anyone who ever identified herself/himself as the opposite gender of which they are born as on paper that is why I am very clumsy with the words and sadly a bit ignorant about it.

So sorry if I'm offending anyone.
Don't worry about it, I could tell it wasn't malicious, just a bit clumsy!
 
Oct 25, 2017
84
There are also plenty of people who would refuse to have relationships with cis women who can't have babies.
I never said there aren't. It's an important question to ask youeself to see if there might be some deeply rooted transphobic reason for being unattracted to someone. You can have sex with someone without going into a relationship. Most people don't seek out sex purely to have kids unless they are very religious.
 
Oct 8, 2018
106
There's nothing interesting or special about Jafffes views. He's an extremely typical ugly white male. The Joe Rogan types, who claim to liberal or center, but for some reason spend all their time defending the alt right, racism, and complaining about the supposedly bad left. Like Joe Rogan Jaffe's view are extremely boring and not sophisticated at all.

These guys don't seem to be particularly smart or well read.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,606
New York City
This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.
Hey, if you frequent any other places of interest around the web. Could you tell some of its denizens that me and my crew are actively coming to destroy their fucked up ideals? Thanks.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,447
Don't worry about it, I could tell it wasn't malicious, just a bit clumsy!
LOOK AT HOW MEAN ERA MEMBERS ARE!

...
But seriously, I find it funny how people cry about how Era is "toxic" about social issues, when in these very same threads, there are many productive conversations with people, who are uninformed, simply learning and gaining perspective.

If the assholes, who Vince-McMahon-strut into this thread just took a SECOND to stop and read the room, they'd realize that this place isn't needlessly aggressive. We just don't put up with arguments made in bad faith.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,820
This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.
You're not wrong, when racism, sexism, transphobia, homophobia, misogyny, and toxicity are so normalized in the gaming community, a place that directly opposes all of that and has users that directly call out the bs i.e the "i'm not racist BUT" rhetoric would have a stigma. Gnerally a place where critical thinking, citations, and well sourced discussions is directly encouraged would have a big stigma.

"Resetera doesn't cape for nazis and pedophile defenders and those that defend them"

that's fine.
"I'm a liberal but No it's not! Milo deserves a platform. Please ignore that he used that platform to directly harass people on the daily"
 
Oct 25, 2017
607
That's a pretty big secret to keep from someone. If you're Trans it's not right to date someone and not let them know. That's a huge breach in trust.
Many of us are scared to see what happens if we tell our date that we're trans, sometimes nothing happens and other times, well... we're going to get hurt emotionally and sometimes physically, they might even kill us. So some of us want to see if our dates can be trusted first before telling them that we're trans and asking if they want to go forward knowing that information.

For me personally, I try to date only close friends. The trust is already there and I know they won't hurt me.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,222
can someone ELI5 me on this? There's no context in OPs post or the video really. What did he say that was so taboo?
You're not five, so you get a grown-up version: Jaffe was making the point that figures like Milo Yiannopoulos losing their platforms on social media is destroying the country, because it makes people intellectually lazy. The problem being, Yiannopoulos lost his platforms because he was doing things like directing threats and harassment to others and advocating for pedophilia in ways that he was breaking ToS with those various sites (and scaring away his personal financiers), and he wasn't getting paid to do appearances at schools after an incident where he personally identified a trans person to a hostile audience at one of those appearances.

Jaffe either assumed or wanted others to think that Yiannopoulos was "censored" more generally for just having unpopular opinions. That wasn't even the case, though it's worth noting those views do include the desire for a white entho-state, beliefs about the inferiority of gay/trans people, and other actual hate platforms. To the point where Jaffe explained the value of allowing people to pursue that goal of creating a white ethno-state within the US. People criticized him for everything from the basis of his reasoning to his specific points, and he's basically reacted by posturing.

So the substance of what Jaffe said and is still insisting is that individuals disagreeing with and refusing to support things like the above are what is destroying the United States. He's conflating disagreement/rejection of well-understood ideas on an individual level in social media with state and academic censorship.
 
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Oct 30, 2017
3,931
who could have expected this from david jaffe

david "hillary could do more harm than trump" jaffe:

(read from bottom up)

david "I fundamentally agree with a lot of the things that a number of the people who claim to support Gamergate agree with" jaffe

david "new [gaming] hardware is like new pussy" jaffe

david "women should use guns so they don't get raped" jaffe

or david "Wait, what are you saying? I didn't catch that cause I was distracted by the pussy on your face" (directed at female gaffer) jaffe
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,817
On topic, I can’t believe the effort some people like Jaffe put in to vocally and angrily defending the intolerant as though they’re oppressed in any way, rather than just, you know, defending actually oppressed or marginalised people, or just anyone who needs help.
This is exactly it.

There is context to the battles they choose to fight, the hills they choose to die on. Regardless of the supposed neutrality they project, you cannot assume they're arguing in good faith when they expend so much more energy defending oppressors than the oppressed.
Yup. Just look at how angry Jaffe got about it. I saw a lot of this back during the 2016 election -- otherwise outwardly sane people (usually adult white males) got irrationally upset when they or their friends/family were labeled racists for supporting the racist candidate. Instead of stopping and thinking for a moment why hitching their wagon to something so toxic was bad, they would stomp their feet and double down on their position (and let everyone know about it!)

I've heard "it's a tough time to be a white man" numerous times, and I'm like...are you kidding me?! Why, because we're expected to not act like shitheads? Yeah, real tough. It completely lacks perspective. But it's a view that's prevalent, in this case espoused by Jaffe, that it's "an attack on our way of life" by the left. And the response is sheer rage.

As a liberal (but not an intense, far-left liberal), I do get where some of David's frustration comes from. Misplaced anger aside, I think he makes some valid points in the video in the OP. I'd also like to see less knee-jerk reactions and more nuanced discussion when it comes to hot-button topics. But he looks foolish by trying to equate the far left with the alt-right, by trying to make this about an attack on free speech, and by defending Milo of all people. It feels like something that's been simmering for a while in him and is now just bubbling to the surface, and this is him lashing out at political correctness without really knowing what he's talking about. He's either unwilling or unable to see why he's gotten the reaction that he's gotten.

I mean:

#1- People need to let Milo Yiannopoulos- and people like him- speak out loud and proud.

#2- Our country is suffering because we are shutting these people down.
I just can't get past what a stupid, ignorant statement that is. He should just own it and take the loss on this one, but sadly it seems he wants to dig an even deeper hole to "own the libs", or whatever.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,454
This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.
Again I've seen many posts like this. These posts rarely actually quote the posts that prompted such a response. These posts rarely engage afterwards in a discussion to try to fix this 'stigma'. So really, without doing any of that, what exactly makes you think that you have a leg to stand on? You want to criticize individual posts for being myopic, unfair, etc. Sure go ahead. We're all doing that. But acting like there is this monolithic resetera hivemind is just frankly wrong. Almost every single topic has differing opinions.

Like seriously what's the point of this unless you engage and try to make it better?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,966
So just a question, since I didn't really follow the path as to why old Gaf and ERA hated Boogie so much and mostly just see his "both sides gif"

But is this basically what Boogie did?
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,276
The whole Resetera has a bad stigma is funny.

Yo, my bad but when the fuck was I suppose to care about the opinion of places I don't visit or people I don't interact with on the internet? I think I missed that memo.

Like lmao, oh no, reddit thinks this place sucks. Good for them. People who hate this place can continue to, why the fuck does that matter?
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,058
You're not five, so you get a grown-up version: Jaffe was making the point that figures like Milo Yiannopoulos losing their platforms on social media is destroying the country, because it makes people intellectually lazy. The problem being, Yiannopoulos lost his platforms because he was doing things like directing threats to others and advocating for pedophilia in ways that he was breaking ToS with those various sites (and scaring away his personal financiers), and he wasn't getting paid to do appearances at schools after an incident where he personally identified a trans person to a hostile audience at one of those appearances.

Jaffe either assumed or wanted others to think that Yiannopoulos was "censored" more generally for just having unpopular opinions. Those views include the desire for a white entho-state, beliefs about the inferiority of gays, or any of his other hate-platforms. To the point where Jaffe explained the value of allowing people to pursue that goal of creating a white ethno-state within the US. People criticized him for everything from the basis of his reasoning to his specific points, and he's basically reacted by posturing and pontificating.
Thanks for the context! So he wasn't advocating FOR Milo, he was advocating for an open platform to let people speak freely, even if that speech could be absolutely horrible.

Yeeeeeaaaaaaah, tough issue there...and one that I don't understand why he's really getting himself involved in. I always say stick to what you're good at...videogame makin' is probably his strong suit...probably should just do that.
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,617
who could have expected this from david jaffe

david "hillary could do more harm than trump" jaffe:

(read from bottom up)

david "I fundamentally agree with a lot of the things that a number of the people who claim to support Gamergate agree with" jaffe

david "new [gaming] hardware is like new pussy" jaffe

david "women should use guns so they don't get raped" jaffe

or david "Wait, what are you saying? I didn't catch that cause I was distracted by the pussy on your face" (directed at female gaffer) jaffe
@davidscottjaffe
"I think there is a valid argument to be made that the lesser of 2 evils is Trump. EVEN IF Trump is the next Hitler, Hitler was a specific."

I am so utterly perplexed by this tweet. Hitler either directly or indirectly killed ~30 million innocent people. He also didn't rise to power being completely specific, infact he was somewhat of a chameleon, championing xenophobia and populism first and foremost, but at the same time appealing to all walks of the political and business scale, religious groups and non religious groups, capitalists and socialists, lower, middle and upper class, left wing and right wing etc.

But what is Jaffe saying here exactly, that it's more acceptable if Trump is like Hitler even if he does end up being a mass murdering detriment to humanity, because at least he's forthright about his beliefs? How in the world does this make sense. Infact, isn't it the complete opposite the case? That it's an indictment of our society that someone so forthright with their xenophobia and bluster could ever reach such heights?

I hope Jaffe makes an account so he can clarify some of these viewpoints, because often time they come off as completely irresponsible.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,047
The whole Resetera has a bad stigma is funny.

Yo, my bad but when the fuck was I suppose to care about the opinion of places I don't visit or people I don't interact with on the internet? I think I missed that memo.

Like lmao, oh no, reddit thinks this place sucks. Good for them. People who hate this place can continue to, why the fuck does that matter?
Get a fucking life Jaffe.
Maybe this is why.
 
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