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David Jaffe (creator of God of War) has a bone to pick with ResetEra.

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plagiarize

Mighty Jagrafess
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,780
0
Cape Cod, MA
I hope Jaffe has taken his own advice, if he doesn't like what we're saying, and has moved on. Because here's a thing: We aren't saying Twitter need to deplatform Jaffe for his grade school understanding of the first amendment. We're criticizing his stupid idea, and mocking him for holding it. Here, on a privately owned website where the admins are free to decide what constitutes toxic behavior ON RESETERA.

It's maddening to see people who think that freedom of speech means that you are protected from being misunderstood or criticized for your views. He argued for Milo to get his platform back, and while defending that, used the same rhetoric people on the alt right use. SHOCKINGLY that lead to some people calling him alt-right. Even if they're wrong, it's pretty clear to see how someone could form that conclusion. If he could take a step back from his ego and understand not everyone knows what's inside his heart (or whatever), he'd see that it's not some mean crazy leap.

Plus it's pretty rich for someone to brand people as alt left (cause they want to take away some people's platform) comparing them to the alt right (who want to remove entire races from the country), to take offense at being given such a label.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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So just a question, since I didn't really follow the path as to why old Gaf and ERA hated Boogie so much and mostly just see his "both sides gif"

But is this basically what Boogie did?
IIRC, Boogie made an ass of himself on the GAF's GamerGate thread, which ended with him threatening to kill himself since we were being "mean" to him by not putting up with his GG crap. He's gone on to say that gay people shouldn't have fought for their rights so hard, since that's why homophobes hate them, and that Anita Sarkeesian is partially responsible for the violence in Charlottesville last year. This is in addition to the "both sides" gif you're seeing everywhere.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Since Jaffe could be reading this, or someone please let him know something: the people he is desperately defending actively push the idea that being a liberal is a mental disease. He as a good "liberal" should be aware of that first, that while he is busy trying to hug and cape for them, they are waiting for the moment to make him bite the curb and jump on his head, and then laugh at him.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Thanks for the context! So he wasn't advocating FOR Milo, he was advocating for an open platform to let people speak freely, even if that speech could be absolutely horrible.
We have that already, it's called society, and society (as an open platform) is free to tell people like Milo to rot under a rock for the rest of his days. However Jaffe seems to think that no-platforming Milo (as in, banning him from Twitter, Patreon, and refusing to book him for public appearances at colleges) is somehow exempt from this ideology because reasons*.


* = Reasons being that David Jaffe is a privileged asshole.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Thanks for the context! So he wasn't advocating FOR Milo, he was advocating for an open platform to let people speak freely, even if that speech could be absolutely horrible.

Yeeeeeaaaaaaah, tough issue there...and one that I don't understand why he's really getting himself involved in. I always say stick to what you're good at...videogame makin' is probably his strong suit...probably should just do that.
It is because he believes in a faulty premise that bad ideas are self-evident, when that isn't true.

Bad ideologies take a shitload of effort to squash and even after all that effort a sizable portion of "well meaning individuals" will turn their head slightly and say "I just don't understand why all lives don't matter and there isn't a white history month?"

Heading bigotry off at the pass is just simple energy conservation. Improving education is the only real long term strategy.
 
Oct 26, 2017
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@davidscottjaffe
"I think there is a valid argument to be made that the lesser of 2 evils is Trump. EVEN IF Trump is the next Hitler, Hitler was a specific."

I am so utterly perplexed by this tweet. Hitler either directly or indirectly killed ~30 million innocent people. He also didn't rise to power being completely specific, infact he was somewhat of a chameleon, championing xenophobia and populism first and foremost, but at the same time appealing to all walks of the political and business scale, religious groups and non religious groups, capitalists and socialists, lower, middle and upper class, left wing and right wing etc.

But what is Jaffe saying here exactly, that it's more acceptable if Trump is like Hitler even if he does end up being a mass murdering detriment to humanity, because at least he's forthright about his beliefs? How in the world does this make sense. Infact, isn't it the complete opposite the case? That it's an indictment of our society that someone so forthright with their xenophobia and bluster could ever reach such heights?

I hope Jaffe makes an account so he can clarify some of these viewpoints, because often time they come off as completely irresponsible.
Trump may be a narcissistic, amoral, racist, sexist, fascist, lying white nationalist scumbag wannabe dictator who doesn't have a shred of humanity, but Hillary could have been worse.

Checkmate, liberals!
 

plagiarize

Mighty Jagrafess
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,780
0
Cape Cod, MA
Since Jaffe could be reading this, or someone please let him know something: the people he is desperately defending actively push the idea that being a liberal is a mental disease. He as a good "liberal" should be aware of that first, that while he is busy trying to hug and cape for them, they are waiting for the moment to make him bite the curb and jump on his head, and then laugh at him.
That and, they gladly use people like Jaffe and Boogie to try and get more and more influence until, by their own admission, they will shred the first amendment the first chance they get.
 
Oct 30, 2017
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Jesus, what a pathetic fall from grace. i used to respect this guy, thought he was a great to listen to because he was very unfiltered in the things he said...it was great when he was discussing gameplay mechanics and the industry with the "i don't give a fuck what people think" attitude you came to expect from him...but it doesn't sit quite as well when he's trying to convince people that a pedo enabling nazi should retain a platform to spew their bullshit.

he needs to just fade into irrelevancy like his last several projects did.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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It is because he believes in a faulty premise that bad ideas are self-evident, when that isn't true.

Bad ideologies take a shitload of effort to squash and even after all that effort a sizable portion of "well meaning individuals" will turn their head slightly and say "I just don't understand why all lives don't matter and there isn't a white history month?"

Heading bigotry off at the pass is just simple energy conservation. Improving education is the only real long term strategy.
This is the biggest flaw in his argument. And the fact that he believes the masses being exposed to shitty ideologies will be able to use critical thinking skills to parse good from bad shows how little he actually understand about how our world works.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Thanks for the context! So he wasn't advocating FOR Milo, he was advocating for an open platform to let people speak freely, even if that speech could be absolutely horrible.

Yeeeeeaaaaaaah, tough issue there...and one that I don't understand why he's really getting himself involved in. I always say stick to what you're good at...videogame makin' is probably his strong suit...probably should just do that.
So why is he getting so pissy when people use a platform to speak freely about how they think he's a bit of a cunt?
 
IIRC, Boogie made an ass of himself on the GAF's GamerGate thread, which ended with him threatening to kill himself since we were being "mean" to him by not putting up with his GG crap. He's gone on to say that gay people shouldn't have fought for their rights so hard, since that's why homophobes hate them, and that Anita Sarkeesian is partially responsible for the violence in Charlottesville last year. This is in addition to the "both sides" gif you're seeing everywhere.
Additionally, the video that gif was made from was a response to the JonTron debacle, when JonTron went on a tirade about keeping America white and pure and stop diluting the races.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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Lots or cis women can't have babies. So if that is your reason then you would need to ask yourself if you would refuse to have sex with a super attractive cis women if you knew she was infertile.
Technically she would be identical to any woman physically though - and that by itself would matter to me at least.

I would lose all physical attraction if I knew she was not always a she. A persons physical properties, personality, history etc - it all counts when it comes to attraction imo
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Nah, de-platforming is working like a charm. Right Sony? Also, Jaffe's Secret Hitler game needs work. Both Sides! doesn't work with people who want to exterminate the other side. White nationalist fascists gonna white nationalist fascist.
 
Oct 26, 2017
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Thanks for the context! So he wasn't advocating FOR Milo, he was advocating for an open platform to let people speak freely, even if that speech could be absolutely horrible.
I'm glad you're more caught up, but as the person who composed that, I'd say it stretches credibility to characterize it the way you have. Because Jaffe was specifically advocating for Yiannopoulos, against purported "silencing" that wasn't happening in any way similar to how he described it (which was the basis for his initial complaint).
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Technically she would be identical to any woman physically though - and that by itself would matter to me at least.

I would lose all physical attraction if I knew she was not always a she. A persons physical properties, personality, history etc - it all counts when it comes to attraction imo
Then yes, I would say you're getting into transphobic territory here. If your reasons were "I want to have kids but infertile ciswomen are okay to date" then it's not really about wanting to have kids and it's something else that you need to think about.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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He is right. Disagreeing with someone does not mean they are suddenly worthless. Hold that belief for a long amount of time and then you *will* be alone.
Thankfully there are enough people out there that aren't open bigots, I'll never have to be alone even if I cut out all the Milo's I come across, or even the Milo defenders.
 
Oct 29, 2017
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He is right. Disagreeing with someone does not mean they are suddenly worthless. Hold that belief for a long amount of time and then you *will* be alone.
Except it's a false premise. Of course not every disagreement means the end of a relationship. No one is out to claim that people who simply hold different opinions need to be culled from society. But there's a difference between disagreeing with someone about the quality of DC movies and disagreeing with someone about the fact that trans people are human and deserve rights or that black people shouldn't be oppressed. If a person wants to believe bigoted ideals then there is no worth to their opinions. Milo Y is such a person and his worthless rhetoric is why he's ostracized.
 
This is the biggest flaw in his argument. And the fact that he believes the masses being exposed to shitty ideologies will be able to use critical thinking skills to parse good from bad shows how little he actually understand about how our world works.
To add to that, how much damage is done during the time between the rise of voices that argue for a white ethnostate and the time that those voices are comprehensively and effectively rejected? Jaffe seems to believe that people will reject the rise of white nationalist values, but he seems to not understand that there is a long period of time where the rise of hate and bigotry do actual damage before it is eventually cast away to whatever extent. His argument seems to ignore or accept the damage done as a necessary consequence, that society is better off for suffering it. It's madness if it is not ignorance, that is unless he does believe that there is merit to a white ethnostate and he is being disingenuous.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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So just a question, since I didn't really follow the path as to why old Gaf and ERA hated Boogie so much and mostly just see his "both sides gif"

But is this basically what Boogie did?
IIRC, Boogie made an ass of himself on the GAF's GamerGate thread, which ended with him threatening to kill himself since we were being "mean" to him by not putting up with his GG crap. He's gone on to say that gay people shouldn't have fought for their rights so hard, since that's why homophobes hate them, and that Anita Sarkeesian is partially responsible for the violence in Charlottesville last year. This is in addition to the "both sides" gif you're seeing everywhere.
Between the GG gaf stuff and Anita he also defended Jon Tron by posting a video the day after Jon said "we shouldn't mix the gene pools" by saying he was being attacked for having a different opinion and "trying on a new hat, politically" and that we should all talk and meet in the middle.

When people called boogie out about the severity of Jon's comments he quickly followed up with another video saying he hadn't actually watched Jon's video and didn't agree with those comments. So he had time to read the outrage, think up a video, film, edit and upload it but not actually watch what the subject he was commenting about.

That's why he is hated here but there is more.

He also started dating a sex worker after his wife left him and the new gf came out saying he would emotionally bully her into saying at his house and looking after him, wouldn't let her do her sex work (even though that's how he met her) and when she would ask for money to live (since he wasn't allowing her to work) he would give her the bare minimum and make her feel bad about it.

He also told someone he was thinking about killing himself so they called the police to check on him and he proceeded to make a video where he was furious about them doing it because it interrupted a date and how he wasn't really gonna kill himself, then said not yet anyway, and basically was a real piece of shit to the person who was simply worried about him.

On top of this, from watching his live streams it seems he has a deep hatred of women, coming out with some seriously questionable comments that you wouldn't see on his usual videos. Such as "people say the clitorus doesn't have a hole but they just aren't trying hard enough. All you need is one of these *pulls out a scalpel*.

There was also a severely suspect comment where he said he didn't want to have kids because he was like his parents and didn't want to do to them what they did to him. In case you aren't aware he was physically and sexually abused by them so it made it sound like he was admitting he had the same issues.

I was a big fan of boogie and looked up to him with regards to his struggles with his upbringing and weight issues but its clear he is a manipulative, angry piece of shit who deserves no sympathy.
 
Oct 26, 2017
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Jaffe asks "who decides what hate speech is" and I think the clear answer is, whoever is hosting the speech.

Like, it's not hard. He later says "you don't get to decide that"... yes Twitter does get to decide that. So does YouTube, and Facebook, and ResetERA.

He comes across as contrarian for the sake of being contrarian without consideration of what he's actually saying.
 
Then yes, I would say you're getting into transphobic territory here. If your reasons were "I want to have kids but infertile ciswomen are okay to date" then it's not really about wanting to have kids and it's something else that you need to think about.
Is not being attracted to transgendered people considered transphobic? Genuine question.

I personally wouldn't assume someone is racist just because they aren't attracted to a specific race (in general, of course).

EDIT: (Sorry, read the context of the discussion. Nevermind)
 
Oct 29, 2017
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Mt. Whatever
How to shred every bit of good will one might have had left 101. The last couple weeks have been wild for David-kun.

When Jaffe realizes he's pushed everyone sane away and surrounded himself by monsters, pray he finds the clarity to realize he did it to himself.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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Is not being attracted to transgendered people considered transphobic? Genuine question.

I personally wouldn't assume someone is racist just because they aren't attracted to a specific race (in general, of course).
1. It's not past tense. It's just transgender not transgendered.
2. Yes, if the only reason you're not attracting to someone is because they are trans, then yes you are transphobic.
3. Look at the ideas behind not being attracted to a certain race. You are basically saying everyone in the world of that racial makeup is not attractive to you. Including the millions or potentially billions that you've never met. It is indeed racist.

They're mocking the reasoning being presented. They're applying an extreme (but sound) set of variables to the same argument to show how it's without merit.
Thank you for clarifying. That does make sense on a second read.
 

plagiarize

Mighty Jagrafess
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,780
0
Cape Cod, MA
Is not being attracted to transgendered people considered transphobic? Genuine question.

I personally wouldn't assume someone is racist just because they aren't attracted to a specific race (in general, of course).
Again, this is the scenario.

You are attracted to someone who is transgender, but you don't know. You find out they are transgender, and then you are no longer attracted to them.

That is transphobic. Because only the knowledge that they're trans stopped you finding them attractive. The example only works if you're attracted to them in the first place.
 
Oct 25, 2017
745
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Between the GG gaf stuff and Anita he also defended Jon Tron by posting a video the day after Jon said "we shouldn't mix the gene pools" by saying he was being attacked for having a different opinion and "trying on a new hat, politically" and that we should all talk and meet in the middle.

When people called boogie out about the severity of Jon's comments he quickly followed up with another video saying he hadn't actually watched Jon's video and didn't agree with those comments. So he had time to read the outrage, think up a video, film, edit and upload it but not actually watch what the subject he was commenting about.

That's why he is hated here but there is more.

He also started dating a sex worker after his wife left him and the new gf came out saying he would emotionally bully her into saying at his house and looking after him, wouldn't let her do her sex work (even though that's how he met her) and when she would ask for money to live (since he wasn't allowing her to work) he would give her the bare minimum and make her feel bad about it.

He also told someone he was thinking about killing himself so they called the police to check on him and he proceeded to make a video where he was furious about them doing it because it interrupted a date and how he wasn't really gonna kill himself, then said not yet anyway, and basically was a real piece of shit to the person who was simply worried about him.

On top of this, from watching his live streams it seems he has a deep hatred of women, coming out with some seriously questionable comments that you wouldn't see on his usual videos. Such as "people say the clitorus doesn't have a hole but they just aren't trying hard enough. All you need is one of these *pulls out a scalpel*.

There was also a severely suspect comment where he said he didn't want to have kids because he was like his parents and didn't want to do to them what they did to him. In case you aren't aware he was physically and sexually abused by them so it made it sound like he was admitting he had the same issues.

I was a big fan of boogie and looked up to him with regards to his struggles with his upbringing and weight issues but its clear he is a manipulative, angry piece of shit who deserves no sympathy.
I was aware of pretty much all of that but this

"people say the clitorus doesn't have a hole but they just aren't trying hard enough. All you need is one of these *pulls out a scalpel*.
is new to me and legit made me sick to my stomach.

This goddamn thread has only made me appreciate this community more.
 
1. It's not past tense. It's just transgender not transgendered.
2. Yes, if the only reason you're not attracting to someone is because they are trans, then yes you are transphobic.
3. Look at the ideas behind not being attracted to a certain race. You are basically saying everyone in the world of that racial makeup is not attractive to you. Including the millions or potentially billions that you've never met. It is indeed racist.
1. I apologize for using the incorrect term.
2. I see that after reading the context of the discussion (going back through the posts).
3. Different races have different physical characteristics (in general) where I could see someone not being into that characteristic (in general). Anyone who blanket says I'm not attracted to anyone of the _____ race is of course racist. Attraction to a person should be based on that specific person, in any case. I was trying to speak more to physical generalities that are associated with race (like height or something) that can lead people to preferences as a whole, but I was being inarticulate. I apologize (and please don't think I was speaking for my personal attractions, I wasn't).


Again, this is the scenario.

You are attracted to someone who is transgender, but you don't know. You find out they are transgender, and then you are no longer attracted to them.
That is transphobic. Because only the knowledge that they're trans stopped you finding them attractive. The example only works if you're attracted to them in the first place.
Yeah, after seeing the scenario, I agree with you guys.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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1. I apologize for using the incorrect term.
2. I see that after reading the context of the discussion (going back through the posts).
3. Different races have different physical characteristics (in general) where I could see someone not being into that characteristic (in general). Anyone who blanket says I'm not attracted to anyone of the _____ race is of course racist. Attraction to a person should be based on that specific person, in any case. I was trying to speak more to generalities that are associated with race that can lead people to preferences as a whole, but I was being inarticulate. I apologize (and please don't think I was speaking for my personal attractions, I wasn't).
Not knowing is not knowing. The point is you now know and are taking actions so you don't use the wrong term again. Really no worries.

We all have our preferences when it comes to dating and relationships. For me, I want someone who is going to call me out on my shit when I'm wrong. For other people they want someone more submissive. But the blanket statements are where I draw the line and thankfully it seems you do too.

There are more offensive things in Drawn to Death than that. If that's really what people are complaining about, I'm sorry, but that doesn't hold up.
 
And my guy has the gall to say this while we have a sitting president who can hardly stomach coming out against white nationalism.
It's hard to imagine a sound mind that is truly thinking about the ethical and moral consequences of the rise of white nationalism and hate would argue for more exposure of those values in the midst of a society already suffering a white nationalist POTUS and the rise of fringe hate groups that have been emboldened and protected by the POTUS.

Today we have school principles instructing their teachers on how to protect students from the rise of bigotry due to the 'Trump Effect' in our schools, but Jaffe believes that the problem in society is that we just aren't fair enough to the influencers that are inflaming that bigotry. Nevermind that children are more vulnerable and our teachers and parents are struggling to protect them in this climate. Nevermind that already vulnerable communities are facing increased antagonism and discrimination due to rightwing voices espousing bigotry and the dehumanization of each other as a justifiable answer to society's problems.

And then he feels indignant about how ResetEra 'hates' him simply for having an opinion, that the negative reaction at ResetEra could be chalked up to a simple case of assholes on a forum being intolerant of differing viewpoints.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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1. I apologize for using the incorrect term.
2. I see that after reading the context of the discussion (going back through the posts).
3. Different races have different physical characteristics (in general) where I could see someone not being into that characteristic (in general). Anyone who blanket says I'm not attracted to anyone of the _____ race is of course racist. Attraction to a person should be based on that specific person, in any case. I was trying to speak more to physical generalities that are associated with race (like height or something) that can lead people to preferences as a whole, but I was being inarticulate. I apologize (and please don't think I was speaking for my personal attractions, I wasn't).



Yeah, after seeing the scenario, I agree with you guys.
Can I just say that I wish more individuals were like you and actually took the time to understand what is being said to them?
 
Oct 26, 2017
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He is right. Disagreeing with someone does not mean they are suddenly worthless.
So which of Milo's actions do we define as "disagreements?" The part where he displayed a picture of a transgender student while presenting at her university and mocked her in front of a crowd of people by referring to her as a tranny and saying that she "doesn't pass." Or the part where he posted incredibly racist photoshops of Leslie Jone's twitter account so that his followers would harass her so much that she decided to take a break from twitter. Or how about the part where he explicitly stated that that people who're transgender are disproportionately involved in sex crimes.

Note, we're not talking about some small person, at the time of this Milo had over 300K followers on twitter, he was getting paid to visit universities with the intent of harassing students, his followers would go after people he directly targeted. At what point do you acknowledge what he did what his platform? At what point do you grow a spine and actually confront toxicity instead of tone policing when others do it? At what point do you gain more than a child's understanding of what free speech actually means?
 
Oct 25, 2017
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The Internet
It's hard to imagine a sound mind that is truly thinking about the ethical and moral consequences of the rise of white nationalism and hate would argue for more exposure of those values in the midst of a society already suffering a white nationalist POTUS and the rise of fringe hate groups that have been emboldened and protected by the POTUS.

Today we have school principles instructing their teachers on how to protect students from the rise of bigotry due to the 'Trump Effect' in our schools, but Jaffe believes that the problem in society is that we just aren't fair enough to the influencers that are inflaming that bigotry. Nevermind that children are more vulnerable and our teachers and parents are struggling to protect them in this climate. Nevermind that already vulnerable communities are facing increased antagonism and discrimination due to rightwing voices espousing bigotry and the dehumanization of each other as a justifiable answer to society's problems.

And then he feels indignant about how ResetEra 'hates' him simply for having an opinion, that the negative reaction at ResetEra could be chalked up to a simple case of assholes on a forum being intolerant of differing viewpoints.
Amen.
 
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