David Jaffe (creator of God of War) has a bone to pick with ResetEra.

[GrittyTheFool]

Yeeesshhhh, Mr. Jaffe, I don't think calling your comments transphobic or racist holistically describes why your diatribe is so inappropriate. I believe this type of mindset is born of culturally instituted toxic masculinity. I genuinely believe that YOU believe you have all the best intentions for the underrepresented and victimized subsets of our culture. I believe that YOU believe you have an open mind and heart for these people. At best, your honesty is tactless, and at worst, you're an agent of oppression. I think that the truth is somewhere in between.

To address the best case scenario, quit digging your grave, shut up and apologize. To address the worst case scenario, fess up, pledge allegiance and gather support from some shitbag red pill edge lords. I hope that you find the former much more suitable.

An apology is necessary because your point of "if she had a penis before, I'm no longer interested" is an affirmation of devaluation of one's trans identity. It is wrong to devalue trans identity because a trans person is a person too and has every right to participate in their preferred gender's activities, soup to nuts (see what I did there?). Your comments contain the message "you're not a REAL girl, so I wouldn't be caught with you".

I hope you understand why this is a hurtful message. I appreciate that you've invited Era to have an open dialogue on your feelings on the matter. I know you probably can't help the way you feel, but the bottom line is that these people are your customers who have enjoyed your work and may even look up to you. Your word has meaning. I implore you to react with sensitivity, and let kindness and love drive the dialogue you wish to pursue.

 

[nib95]

You're missing the point. If you're making love to someone you're attracted to who you believe just has a tan, and in the post-coitus cuddle she tells you about how hard it was to grow up black, and that information changes you're perception of her/your attraction to her, you're racist. The analogy to race is a tricky one, since race is a usually an immediately presenting classification. This is different than the discussion of you being attracted to someone based off their physical features.

You can say, "i've never been attracted to a black woman," but that's very different than the statement, "black women are unattractive". The former is steeped in your personal experience and attraction, which is fair game. Making a declarative statement about the overall attractiveness of a race like the latter, is different.

Edit: Please note that paragraph one and two, are talking about two different points of this topic.

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Yea, I agree with this. Though not to open another can of worms, but I would be interested in knowing the kind of nurturing or upbringing someone would have had to have had, to have never found any person of X, Y or Z race attractive, over the span of their entire life. Ultimately "I've never been attracted to black women" could still just be a polite way for a racist to mask their racism without outright saying "black women are unattractive".

In that sense, even if one has preferences for certain races, it would still seem weird to me if they'd never been attracted to a person of a certain race in all their lives, especially today, in a time where because of social media, YouTube, the entertainment industry etc, there are prominent and popular examples of beauty promoted for all races, all around us.

 

[asmith906]

If I love that person then I love that person. If finding out a person I've loved for a couple of weeks that that person used to be a man but has gone that full transformation then I would love that person even more I think for trusting in me and telling me that.

But that's me, I can understand someone who would be turned off for getting that news too. It's a shitty thing to happen because it shouldn't be that way because that person who once was a man is clearly a woman now. But it's still that person's right to lose interest in a trans because he/she can't decide whatever he/she feels attraction to. Being mad or stop all contacts with that person because she is a trans, that is despicable and it's what I define transphobic atleast.

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That's a pretty big secret to keep from someone. If you're Trans it's not right to date someone and not let them know. That's a huge breach in trust.

 

[Ketkat]

Ugh, how are we on this topic in here of all places. This is really how it breaks down for all of it. If you refuse to date an entire race because of their race, then yes, that is racist. It's okay to have preferences and find certain things attractive, but when you discount an entire race completely, you are making assumptions about physical features and personalities when every race can be extremely varied in how those are expressed. If you are fetishizing an entire race as well, then that is racist as well because you are still making those assumptions about physical features and personalities just in the opposite direction.

As for whether or not it's transphobic to not want to date someone who is trans, it really depends. If you have a certain preference for genitals, or you want kids, then no, I would say that it's not. If you feel that you want children, then I'm not sure why you feel the need to speak up and say you don't find trans people attractive though. Just say "I want to date women who can have children" and it won't come off in that same exclusionary way. It can get into a transphobic area in certain situations though. If you are out on a date with someone, and you find out that they're trans, and are immediately turned off and leave, then yeah, I would say that falls into that situation. You were attracted to them, and the fact that they're trans is what turned you away.

No one is going to force you to sleep with or date someone that you're not attracted to. The reason that people bring these things up is so that you can sit down and actually think about any prejudices or unfair bias that you might hold. It's a little easier to see with race honestly, but even then, we can't even get everyone on board to understand how that's racist. It is a little tiring just how often people feel the need to talk about how they don't want to date trans people. It's like the one topic that really brings out the most people who feel like they have something to say about us. People aren't going to learn and understand if we don't talk about it of course, but just try and keep in mind that people of other races and trans people are reading these things as you talk about them.

 

[OrdinaryPrime]

This is so wrong, I'm not interested in dating a black woman and some other cultures that I don't have a preference for, doesn't mean I'm racist towards any of those cultures. I have a thing for Asian women, but that comes down to my taste and has nothing to do with anything they do or don't do or me believing they ar e better than anyone else, nor am I Asian.

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In case people are wondering, this is indeed racist. "I'm not interested in all black women because they have a different culture than me."

Also "I have a thing for Asian women." Ick.

 

[Deleted member 37739]

You're missing the point. If you're making love to someone you're attracted to who you believe just has a tan, and in the post-coitus cuddle she tells you about how hard it was to grow up black, and that information changes you're perception of her/your attraction to her, you're racist. The analogy to race is a tricky one, since race is a usually an immediately presenting classification. This is different than the discussion of you being attracted to someone based off their physical features.

You can say, "i've never been attracted to a black woman," but that's very different than the statement, "black women are unattractive". The former is steeped in your personal experience and attraction, which is fair game. Making a declarative statement about the overall attractiveness of a race like the latter, is different.

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Good comment and well-worded.

 

[Ketkat]

That's a pretty big secret to keep from someone. If you're Trans it's not right to date someone and not let them know. That's a huge breach in trust.

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No one is going to hide that forever, but some people do wait for a couple of dates just to get past that initial bias. There are a lot of people who are more accepting of something like that if they get to know you first. In that example, it was a couple of weeks, which really isn't that crazy since most people who are dating aren't that serious about each other at that point.

 

[Staticneuron]

If I love that person then I love that person. If finding out a person I've loved for a couple of weeks that that person used to be a man but has gone that full transformation then I would love that person even more I think for trusting in me and telling me that.

But that's me, I can understand someone who would be turned off for getting that news too. It's a shitty thing to happen because it shouldn't be that way because that person who once was a man is clearly a woman now. But it's still that person's right to lose interest in a trans because he/she can't decide whatever he/she feels attraction to. Being mad or stop all contacts with that person because she is a trans, that is despicable and it's what I define transphobic atleast.

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Yeah it seems like people are making the issue more simple than what it is. A whole bunch of things come up not only about the question of children but also any relgious beliefs or taking this news to your family. While it is nice to believe that sometimes only pure emotion between two people matters, I have personally seen that it is alot messier than that.

Making a personal decision for a relationship is alot different than painting in broad strokes that is normally shown when groups are hated.

No one is going to hide that forever, but some people do wait for a couple of dates just to get past that initial bias. There are a lot of people who are more accepting of something like that if they get to know you first. In that example, it was a couple of weeks, which really isn't that crazy since most people who are dating aren't that serious about each other at that point.

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I think that is a defining point for a persons character. How someone behaves after receiving news like that. I think the ability to put yourself in some else's shoes is the strongest way for people to become more understanding.

 

[GameAddict411]

I think some people shouldn't be on social media. They don't make themselves nor the community they represent look favorable. Michael Richards (Kramer) destroyed his Legacy on Seinfeld, and in the process damaged the brand he helped create with his rants and use of the "N" word. Not saying Jaffe has done any of this, but he's walking a very fine line whenever he's on camera or makes statements; and his opinions are unfiltered (always has been I guess). Yet the current conditions of identity crucifixion of any celebrity/public figure (minus our f'n Cheeto faced president) make for a land mine ridden climate that sadly destroys careers and spreads like wildfire when these individuals misstep. Quit while your ahead good sir. Get back to making things, be content being a creator and ignore the noise of few and concentrate on the support of the silent many.

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I am sorry but I find this post to be disturbing and naive. Are you saying that people with shitty beliefs and shitty ideas should keep it to themselves? What happens when people like Jaffe gets to a position of power over the"few?" This is where systemic oppression of minorities comes from. Internalizing racism and bigotry doesn't solve the issue. People who hold shitty views better come out so they could be dealt with accordingly. By that I mean preventing people from getting into position of power. I actually want everyone to voice how they feel. Some people could also change their minds too. Engaging with shitty beliefs is a good way to maybe one day influence someone to double check themselves. But this definitely has it's limit. I think it's ok to engage with Jaffe about his previous comments for example, but engaging with someone who belongs to a hate group is not the same thing. Hate group can't be engaged. The best way to deal with them is to de-platform them.

 

[Deleted member 9306]

I'm so honored to have a video made about my dragging of a washed up game dev "celebrity".

But seriously, he needs to get tougher skin. No one bullied him, we just called him out on his dumbass logic. If you didn't want to be challenged then don't tweet out your viewpoints.

 

[HiLife]

It's cool these clowns got banned. Lmao at the Dennis posts. But I kinda wish Journey could explain his airtight logic on why he's not racist and why fetishizing Asians isn't either.

Oh well. Never change Era.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Ding ding ding

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These things are not conceptually hard. I've literally had this conversation with people.

"Not dating someone because of their race is racist"
"Well I'm not attracted to black women"
"Are you attracted to every white women then?"
"No"
"Well why not?"
"Well they dont all look the same"
"You think all black women look the same?"
". . . .Well there are certain features"
"There are certain features that exist in every black woman that you find undesireable but there are not features found in every white woman that make them all desireable to you? Do you know how fucking arbitrary and made up this all sounds?"
"Its just my preference"
"Its not even a real preference if it can't even pass basic logic tests. I'm not asking you hard questions. Do you not like dark skin?"
"No not that specifically?"
"Aight, what the fuck is the basis of you saying you dont like black women or any race in fact?"
". . . . Oh so I'm the bad guy now?"

Man shut the fuck up honestly. These people know the statement holds zero credibility on examination. But to admit their preferences are subject to racial bias is suddenly the hardest thing ever.

 

[ADee]

Work on this phrasing. That person was always a woman.

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I hope you understand what I meant.....

A question, if I find out that person who are a woman inside but a man outside. Am I transphobic for not finding her attractive....
Even if I found her attractive until she took her clothes of and had a penis?

 

[Angst]

Yea, I agree with this. Though not to open another can of worms, but I would be interested in knowing the kind of nurturing or upbringing someone would have had to have had, to have never found any person of X, Y or Z race attractive, over the span of their entire life. Ultimately "I've never been attracted to black women" could still just be a polite way for a racist to mask their racism without outright saying "black women are unattractive".

In that sense, even if one has preferences for certain races, it would still seem weird to me if they'd never been attracted to a person of a certain race in all their lives, especially today, in a time where because of social media, YouTube, the entertainment industry etc, there are prominent and popular examples of beauty promoted for all races, all around us.

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I mean, people find the weirdest things unattractive. Some people arent' attracted to people with dark hair. Its not unreasonable to believe that some people wouldn't also be unattractive to skin tones.

 

[Ketkat]

I hope you understand what I meant.....

A question, if I find out that person who are a woman inside but a man outside. Am I transphobic for not finding her attractive....
Even if I found her attractive until she took her clothes of and had a penis?

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If you are not attracted to certain genitals, then no, that is not transphobic.

Your wording is a little messy though is what they mean. If you want to have it be a little smoother, you can just say "transwoman" for someone who was Assigned Male at Birth (AMAB) and transitioned later on.

 

[RHANITAN]

Well this is obvious i would think....

they ARE not physically the same and to me that would matter since they cannot bear children (born man in this case)

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Lots or cis women can't have babies. So if that is your reason then you would need to ask yourself if you would refuse to have sex with a super attractive cis women if you knew she was infertile.

 

[Gestault]

I want to point out that how, for me at least, a LOT of my frustration (beyond just the disappointment) with Jaffe in this case is that he's not engaging or integrating points made against him in any sort of sincere way, so he seems to primarily be going through the theater of argument/conflict. There can be value to talking openly about extreme topics like this, but when one party is just using the exchange as a confirming performance to appeal to others, that's no longer so. All that's being done is megaphoning views they're supposedly only championing "on principle." If the substance doesn't matter, that means they aren't even listening.

When someone's social privilege gives them so much "breathing space" that vouching for bad actors perusing things like child abuse and taking away basic rights based on race seems like a good use of their time, that person is deeply broken.

 

[Angst]

Lots or cis women can't have babies. So if that is your reason then you would need to ask yourself if you would refuse to have sex with a super attractive cis women if you knew she was infertile.

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There are also plenty of people who would refuse to have relationships with cis women who can't have babies.

 

[Ororo]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

 

[uzipukki]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

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Lol.

 

[nib95]

I mean, people find the weirdest things unattractive. Some people arent' attracted to people with dark hair. Its not unreasonable to believe that some people wouldn't also be unattractive to skin tones.

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Fair enough. I mean, to me it seems like such a sad and limiting thing, but it is what it is.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

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oh boy.

I mean, people find the weirdest things unattractive. Some people arent' attracted to people with dark hair. Its not unreasonable to believe that some people wouldn't also be unattractive to skin tones.

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I think this is true of some people.

They're just afraid of coming out with that opinion since its colorism (which is a world-wide issue). And it's sad, because colorism can be a natural preference, but some people have trouble admitting traits of themselves that are judged as character flaws in contemporary civilization.

 

[alr1ght]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

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"Resetera doesn't cape for nazis and pedophile defenders and those that defend them"

that's fine.

 

[ADee]

If you are not attracted to certain genitals, then no, that is not transphobic.

Your wording is a little messy though is what they mean. If you want to have it be a little smoother, you can just say "transwoman" for someone who was Assigned Male at Birth (AMAB) and transitioned later on.

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Ok thank you, to be perfectly honest I've never known anyone who ever identified herself/himself as the opposite gender of which they are born as on paper that is why I am very clumsy with the words and sadly a bit ignorant about it.

So sorry if I'm offending anyone.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

I find it funny how today David is talking about trans issues as tactfully as a bull in a China shop when only yesterday he was using his trans audience against my defence of them.

 

[Gestault]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

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If you take part in the discussion, you could give some useful insight for a counterpoint. That's not meant in a snide way.

 

[SoH]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

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..and the unwashed masses of the image boards and subreddits raised their fists in unison and shook with contempt only able to summon a single word in disgust:

ReeeeseeeeeteeeerrrAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TJ_Electronica]

"Resetera doesn't cape for nazis and pedophile defenders and those that defend them"

that's fine.

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Put that under the logo IMO

 

[Crossing Eden]

These things are not conceptually hard. I've literally had this conversation with people.

"Not dating someone because of their race is racist"
"Well I'm not attracted to black women"
"Are you attracted to every white women then?"
"No"
"Well why not?"
"Well they dont all look the same"
"You think all black women look the same?"
". . . .Well there are certain features"
"There are certain features that exist in every black woman that you find undesireable but there are not features found in every white woman that make them all desireable to you? Do you know how fucking arbitrary and made up this all sounds?"
"Its just my preference"
"Its not even a real preference if it can't even pass basic logic tests. I'm not asking you hard questions. Do you not like dark skin?"
"No not that specifically?"
"Aight, what the fuck is the basis of you saying you dont like black women or any race in fact?"
". . . . Oh so I'm the bad guy now?"

Man shut the fuck up honestly. These people know the statement holds zero credibility on examination. But to admit their preferences are subject to racial bias is suddenly the hardest thing ever.

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You ain't never lie.

 

[Whompa]

can someone ELI5 me on this? There's no context in OPs post or the video really. What did he say that was so taboo?

 

[Ketkat]

Ok thank you, to be perfectly honest I've never known anyone who ever identified herself/himself as the opposite gender of which they are born as on paper that is why I am very clumsy with the words and sadly a bit ignorant about it.

So sorry if I'm offending anyone.

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Don't worry about it, I could tell it wasn't malicious, just a bit clumsy!

 

[RHANITAN]

There are also plenty of people who would refuse to have relationships with cis women who can't have babies.

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I never said there aren't. It's an important question to ask youeself to see if there might be some deeply rooted transphobic reason for being unattracted to someone. You can have sex with someone without going into a relationship. Most people don't seek out sex purely to have kids unless they are very religious.

 

[Skippy]

There's nothing interesting or special about Jafffes views. He's an extremely typical ugly white male. The Joe Rogan types, who claim to liberal or center, but for some reason spend all their time defending the alt right, racism, and complaining about the supposedly bad left. Like Joe Rogan Jaffe's view are extremely boring and not sophisticated at all.

These guys don't seem to be particularly smart or well read.

 

[Kyra]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

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Hey, if you frequent any other places of interest around the web. Could you tell some of its denizens that me and my crew are actively coming to destroy their fucked up ideals? Thanks.

 

[Xaszatm]

Hey, if you frequent any other places of interest around the web. Could you tell some of its denizens that me and my crew are actively coming to destroy their fucked up ideals? Thanks.

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Shhhhhh!!!! Let me finish my mind control ray first!

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Don't worry about it, I could tell it wasn't malicious, just a bit clumsy!

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LOOK AT HOW MEAN ERA MEMBERS ARE!

...
But seriously, I find it funny how people cry about how Era is "toxic" about social issues, when in these very same threads, there are many productive conversations with people, who are uninformed, simply learning and gaining perspective.

If the assholes, who Vince-McMahon-strut into this thread just took a SECOND to stop and read the room, they'd realize that this place isn't needlessly aggressive. We just don't put up with arguments made in bad faith.

 

[Crossing Eden]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

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You're not wrong, when racism, sexism, transphobia, homophobia, misogyny, and toxicity are so normalized in the gaming community, a place that directly opposes all of that and has users that directly call out the bs i.e the "i'm not racist BUT" rhetoric would have a stigma. Gnerally a place where critical thinking, citations, and well sourced discussions is directly encouraged would have a big stigma.

"Resetera doesn't cape for nazis and pedophile defenders and those that defend them"

that's fine.

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"I'm a liberal but No it's not! Milo deserves a platform. Please ignore that he used that platform to directly harass people on the daily"

 

[plagiarize]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

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I'm perfectly happy to be stigmatized in plenty of corners of the internet.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

That's a pretty big secret to keep from someone. If you're Trans it's not right to date someone and not let them know. That's a huge breach in trust.

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Many of us are scared to see what happens if we tell our date that we're trans, sometimes nothing happens and other times, well... we're going to get hurt emotionally and sometimes physically, they might even kill us. So some of us want to see if our dates can be trusted first before telling them that we're trans and asking if they want to go forward knowing that information.

For me personally, I try to date only close friends. The trust is already there and I know they won't hurt me.

 

[Joshbob1985]

You seem pretty focused on decorum.

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I seem to be a dying breed.

 

[Gestault]

can someone ELI5 me on this? There's no context in OPs post or the video really. What did he say that was so taboo?

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You're not five, so you get a grown-up version: Jaffe was making the point that figures like Milo Yiannopoulos losing their platforms on social media is destroying the country, because it makes people intellectually lazy. The problem being, Yiannopoulos lost his platforms because he was doing things like directing threats and harassment to others and advocating for pedophilia in ways that he was breaking ToS with those various sites (and scaring away his personal financiers), and he wasn't getting paid to do appearances at schools after an incident where he personally identified a trans person to a hostile audience at one of those appearances.

Jaffe either assumed or wanted others to think that Yiannopoulos was "censored" more generally for just having unpopular opinions. That wasn't even the case, though it's worth noting those views do include the desire for a white entho-state, beliefs about the inferiority of gay/trans people, and other actual hate platforms. To the point where Jaffe explained the value of allowing people to pursue that goal of creating a white ethno-state within the US. People criticized him for everything from the basis of his reasoning to his specific points, and he's basically reacted by posturing.

So the substance of what Jaffe said and is still insisting is that individuals disagreeing with and refusing to support things like the above are what is destroying the United States. He's conflating disagreement/rejection of well-understood ideas on an individual level in social media with state and academic censorship.

 

[jviggy43]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

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Please elaborate.

(you wont)

 

[Silvergun-Blue]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

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If openly supporting people of different races, genders and sexualities is a "stigma" then I'm pretty sure it's one we gladly bear.

 

[Bold One]

who could have expected this from david jaffe

david "hillary could do more harm than trump" jaffe:

(read from bottom up)

david "I fundamentally agree with a lot of the things that a number of the people who claim to support Gamergate agree with" jaffe

david "new [gaming] hardware is like new pussy" jaffe

david "women should use guns so they don't get raped" jaffe

or david "Wait, what are you saying? I didn't catch that cause I was distracted by the pussy on your face" (directed at female gaffer) jaffe

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[OldBoyGamer]

it's the same sort of thing as saying "you sheeple", but non-ironically

wut? who's a 'total cunt'?

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White supremacists? I don't know where I'm going with this tbh - this whole alt-left, alt-right thing does my head in.

 

[Deleted member 4037]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

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How do you figure?

 

[Deleted member 5864]

Hilary worse than Hitler confirmed.

Why are you all still talking about this washed up lunatic in here?

 

[Big G]

On topic, I can't believe the effort some people like Jaffe put in to vocally and angrily defending the intolerant as though they're oppressed in any way, rather than just, you know, defending actually oppressed or marginalised people, or just anyone who needs help.

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This is exactly it.

There is context to the battles they choose to fight, the hills they choose to die on. Regardless of the supposed neutrality they project, you cannot assume they're arguing in good faith when they expend so much more energy defending oppressors than the oppressed.

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Yup. Just look at how angry Jaffe got about it. I saw a lot of this back during the 2016 election -- otherwise outwardly sane people (usually adult white males) got irrationally upset when they or their friends/family were labeled racists for supporting the racist candidate. Instead of stopping and thinking for a moment why hitching their wagon to something so toxic was bad, they would stomp their feet and double down on their position (and let everyone know about it!)

I've heard "it's a tough time to be a white man" numerous times, and I'm like...are you kidding me?! Why, because we're expected to not act like shitheads? Yeah, real tough. It completely lacks perspective. But it's a view that's prevalent, in this case espoused by Jaffe, that it's "an attack on our way of life" by the left. And the response is sheer rage.

As a liberal (but not an intense, far-left liberal), I do get where some of David's frustration comes from. Misplaced anger aside, I think he makes some valid points in the video in the OP. I'd also like to see less knee-jerk reactions and more nuanced discussion when it comes to hot-button topics. But he looks foolish by trying to equate the far left with the alt-right, by trying to make this about an attack on free speech, and by defending Milo of all people. It feels like something that's been simmering for a while in him and is now just bubbling to the surface, and this is him lashing out at political correctness without really knowing what he's talking about. He's either unwilling or unable to see why he's gotten the reaction that he's gotten.

I mean:

#1- People need to let Milo Yiannopoulos- and people like him- speak out loud and proud.

#2- Our country is suffering because we are shutting these people down.

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I just can't get past what a stupid, ignorant statement that is. He should just own it and take the loss on this one, but sadly it seems he wants to dig an even deeper hole to "own the libs", or whatever.

 

[OrdinaryPrime]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

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Again I've seen many posts like this. These posts rarely actually quote the posts that prompted such a response. These posts rarely engage afterwards in a discussion to try to fix this 'stigma'. So really, without doing any of that, what exactly makes you think that you have a leg to stand on? You want to criticize individual posts for being myopic, unfair, etc. Sure go ahead. We're all doing that. But acting like there is this monolithic resetera hivemind is just frankly wrong. Almost every single topic has differing opinions.

Like seriously what's the point of this unless you engage and try to make it better?

 

[Link]

This thread is a good example as to why resetera has the stigma that it has.

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It's telling that you think that's an insult.