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DCEU Era |OT| Crisis on Infinite Forums

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Oct 26, 2017
11,426
I watched a retrospective and I like how they said Man of Steel is a story of two fathers: Jor-El who wants Clark to move forward uninhibited and help mankind, and Jonathan Kent who is pessimistic and thinks mankind will shun him because he's an alien. The dynamic is that Jon raised him and Clark didn't meet his real father until adulthood. When they meet, Jor-El reaffirms he's now human, not Kryptonian, which is why he says "Krypton had its chance." to Zod. Jor-El is the father Clark should have had and yet all Clark thinks about is Jon.
Oh I‘m aware of the texture Snyder brings to these films. But again, how is that reflected in the actions and development of these characters? The entire Krypton part about genetical engineering and roles in a society etc. It‘s all elevated by grandiose imagery, big words like World Engine and Michael Shannon‘s performance but it does not in any way relate to the story it‘s trying to tell.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,151
I left the theatre an hour ago and have already forgotten most of JL

It certainly has its share of enjoyable moments. That cast is great and work well together, and the action, while far less memorable than Snyder's past work, is still fun to watch. The humor also lands more often than not, which is always a nice bonus.

But man, it's kinda just "there". I can't think of a single stand out scene. The pacing is completely rushed , which gives the film a "cartoon pilot" feel rather than the closing chapter of Snyder's trilogy.

Its easy to tell this was ripped from Snyder's hands way before he stepped down, because nothing about it seems like his prior work at all. There's no weight or style to anything here, it's all just kinda bland.

I'll defend BvS and MoS till my dying day. JL, on the other hand, deserves its reception.

WB really needs an entire reset of their upper management team.
They already did. Johns hasn't even released a movie yet.... they'd be reacting twice before the second person even has a chance to do anything lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,542
If we're going to get panic mode Warner Bros again, they might as well start over. Aquaman and Wonder Woman 2 closes out this universe, Reeves gets to start the new one with his Batman film.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,461
Thats basicly your standard Supervillain. Ultron wanted to try the same, Malekith wanted to destroy 7 dimensions, etc.
I think it comes down to the villains themselves as well. Ultron and Malekith were...not good, and didn't come off as threatening in really any way. The only time Ultron could hurt any of the Avengers was when he was flying a jet. Zod and his people were pretty much showing that they were unstoppable and humans couldn't really do anything to stop him. Superman was their only hope, and if he died, it was over. Plus, the fact that at no point in MoS did Superman really have the upper-hand against Zod or any of the other Kryptonians.. He was either getting overpowered or barely holding is own.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,160
There's a post on reddit where Snyder aays he hasn't seen JL. He also apologises for not finishing his MoS, BvS trilogy.
Snyder truly is a stand up guy. I often disregard that he dedicated almost a decade to bring these incredible characters to life. When he could have taken the easy road by building upon existing interpretations he came up with his own. I have absolutely no doubt that he loves these characters and did his best so I commend him for that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,746
I would love to see how Snyder’s version would have turned out.

does anyone have a picture of the entire team at the end?
That shot was lit.
There's a post on reddit where Snyder aays he hasn't seen JL. He also apologises for not finishing his MoS, BvS trilogy.
 

guek

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Oct 25, 2017
3,177
I think it comes down to the villains themselves as well. Ultron and Malekith were...not good, and didn't come off as threatening in really any way. The only time Ultron could hurt any of the Avengers was when he was flying a jet. Zod and his people were pretty much showing that they were unstoppable and humans couldn't really do anything to stop him. Superman was their only hope, and if he died, it was over. Plus, the fact that at no point in MoS did Superman really have the upper-hand against Zod or any of the other Kryptonians.. He was either getting overpowered or barely holding is own.
A big problem I have with MoS is there is never any sense of danger for Superman. At worst, he's met with a minor inconvenience and zero bodily harm. The hero should NEVER look as pristine and spotless at the end of the major conflict as he did at the beginning. Hero stories are all about growth and change and Clark becomes completely stale the moment he puts on the costume.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,461
Snyder truly is a stand up guy. I often disregard that he dedicated almost a decade to bring these incredible characters to life. When he could have taken the easy road by building upon existing interpretations he came up with his own. I have absolutely no doubt that he loves these characters and did his best so I commend him for that.
I really do love what Snyder did. He comes off as a guy who really is a fan of the source material. So many little details in each of the movies.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,499
If we're going to get panic mode Warner Bros again, they might as well start over. Aquaman and Wonder Woman 2 closes out this universe, Reeves gets to start the new one with his Batman film.
I mean isn't that kinda what's already happening? Flash with Ezra can still get his movie. Going forward you really don't have to tie these movies to BvS or JL. Nightwing nor batgirl are tied to any of this.

Like I said. I think WB just wanted to get this movie out of the way. It's going to underperform, but shit if it makes around 700mil you just count your losses and keep moving with solo adventures and let the directors do their jobs. It's not like these movies have any trouble getting talent.
 

guek

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Oct 25, 2017
3,177
I mean isn't that kinda what's already happening? Flash with Ezra can still get his movie. Going forward you really don't have to tie these movies to BvS or JL. Nightwing nor batgirl are tied to any of this.

Like I said. I think WB just wanted to get this movie out of the way. It's going to underperform, but shit if it makes around 700mil you just count your losses and keep moving with solo adventures and let the directors do their jobs. It's not like these movies have any trouble getting talent.
A $700M gross would probably mean something like a $100M loss :-/
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,461
A big problem I have with MoS is there is never any sense of danger for Superman. At worst, he's met with a minor inconvenience and zero bodily harm. The hero should NEVER look as pristine and spotless at the end of the major conflict as he did at the beginning. Hero stories are all about growth and change and Clark becomes completely stale the moment he puts on the costume.
You could tell he was feeling it during the fight in Smallville. The facial expressions he had everytime he was hit said it all. Maybe you didn't feel there wasn't a sense of danger for Superman, but there was for literally everyone else on Earth. There's the sense of danger of Superman being helpless to stop what was happening, as Zod's group was regularly overpowering him. In the end, he was only able to beat Zod through luck, the longer the fight went on, the worse it was getting for Superman as Zod was getting more acclimated to his powers. A soldier vs a farmboy who was never in a real fight before Zod showed up.
 

Ahasverus

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Oct 27, 2017
4,599
Colombia
A $700M gross would probably mean something like a $100M loss :-/
Their fault, shouldn't have made such stupid decisions like cutting the length and bringing Joss Fucking Whedon to finish Snyder's work. They're so different it would have been impossible for the final product to be consistent m
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,053
A big problem I have with MoS is there is never any sense of danger for Superman. At worst, he's met with a minor inconvenience and zero bodily harm. The hero should NEVER look as pristine and spotless at the end of the major conflict as he did at the beginning. Hero stories are all about growth and change and Clark becomes completely stale the moment he puts on the costume.
I agree with this part, I like when heroes get their suits damaged after some intense fight. At least get his cape to rip off from when Zod swings him around.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,542
I mean isn't that kinda what's already happening? Flash with Ezra can still get his movie. Going forward you really don't have to tie these movies to BvS or JL. Nightwing nor batgirl are tied to any of this.

Like I said. I think WB just wanted to get this movie out of the way. It's going to underperform, but shit if it makes around 700mil you just count your losses and keep moving with solo adventures and let the directors do their jobs. It's not like these movies have any trouble getting talent.
They just need a clean break. It's tainted goods at this point. You don't change the online narrative unless you tell people flat out it's dead.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,349
Germany
I think it comes down to the villains themselves as well. Ultron and Malekith were...not good, and didn't come off as threatening in really any way. The only time Ultron could hurt any of the Avengers was when he was flying a jet. Zod and his people were pretty much showing that they were unstoppable and humans couldn't really do anything to stop him. Superman was their only hope, and if he died, it was over. Plus, the fact that at no point in MoS did Superman really have the upper-hand against Zod or any of the other Kryptonians.. He was either getting overpowered or barely holding is own.
Zod was indeed fine, but once again, that would also be only the case for MoS, not for the DCEU. Luthor was shit, Steppenwolf is supposed to be shit, Ares was shit and I cant remember if Suicide Swuad actually had a a tagonist ...
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,461
Zod was indeed fine, but once again, that would also be only the case for MoS, not for the DCEU. Luthor was shit, Steppenwolf is supposed to be shit, Ares was shit and I cant remember if Suicide Swuad actually had a a tagonist ...
I don't think Steppenwolf is anywhere near as bad as people claim he is. In fact, I thought he was pretty decent and posed a real challenge to the league. I guess I'm in the minority where I thought Luthor was decent. He messed with both Batman and Superman. That's what I'd expect of that character. Ares was weak though. At least on screen. The ideas of what he was doing behind the scenes was interesting I thought.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,499
They just need a clean break. It's tainted goods at this point. You don't change the online narrative unless you tell people flat out it's dead.
That won't happen. Again we have a year until Aquaman comes out. The narrative changes when there is good reviews. It makes no sense for them to say this shit is dead when they have a movie next year, WW2 is coming plus a Batman.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,499
Their fault, shouldn't have made such stupid decisions like cutting the length and bringing Joss Fucking Whedon to finish Snyder's work. They're so different it would have been impossible for the final product to be consistent m
You're assuming the Snyder cut wasn't somehow worse.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,542
That won't happen. Again we have a year until Aquaman comes out. The narrative changes when there is good reviews. It makes no sense for them to say this shit is dead when they have a movie next year, WW2 is coming plus a Batman.
At some point, putting band aids on gunshot wounds isn't going to work anymore.
 

Playco Armboy

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Oct 28, 2017
3,406
I do wonder how MoS2 and a Batfleck solo would perform at this point. The well's not just poisoned, but filled to the brim with venom for both.

Batman was so whatever in this movie. There's not really a defining moment where he takes charge or demonstrated leadership, he just sort of meanders delivering exposition or saying something approximating gravity. Also, there was a bunch of jump-cut editing in the opening fight scene that was super uncharacteristic of Snyder.

Even Wonder Woman felt off in this.
 
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