Matt Reeves and Gareth Evans are both better directors than Snyder. I don't necessarily want dc to follow in mcus footsteps but they really needed a big change. This slate of movies is really hard to like for most ppl tbh, outside of wonder woman which is more or less closer in line to the other comic stuff we get every year. Albeit with more heart in its lead character portrayal.
You will get solo projects like Nolans movies (I'm sure that Matt Reeves movies will 100% be stand alone) and that's about it....Maybe not a bad way to go but DC should be more than Batman.
The fact that not even WW doing well brought people out shows that there are no interest in these characters and that's bad for DC branding.
Seriously this could have not ended up in a worse place. I should not like things all they end up doing is getting destroyed...
This should have been a celebration of firsts for these characters I grew up with and now it's worth dirt to everyone else.
In happy for marvel. I like marvel. Not like I love DC but hey its something positive for comic properties.
Got to watch it today and overall really enjoyed it. Gonna post some thoughts in here.
+ Flash, Aquaman, Cyborg and WW were all great.
+ Very funny movie. I was laughing at more things in this than even Ragnorak. And just about every cbm that I can remember. Wasn't expecting so much humor tbh.
+ Supes was incredible.
Where they are fighting him and Flash zips around him. When Supes starts glancing at him in slow mo the entire theater was laughing lol.
. Soo good we better get MoS2.
+Both after credit scenes were pretty good. The 2nd one was very interesting.
-Villain was terrible. Don't know what they were thinking with this. Such a big gamble by Snyder and WB that didn't pay off in any way. There is like hundreds of different villains in the JL universe they could have gone with. I don't know why they picked the lamest one. They should have let them fight Darkseid. Don't know why they are trying to hold him off as some finale. Steppenwolf should have been like an appetizer fight for the first half and Darkseid fight should have ended the film. Or something along those lines. That would have been a true Snyder film imo. This was just half baked and kind of meaningless.
-CGI was pretty bad. Both Man of Steel and BvS CGI blew this out of the water in all ways. Its kind of disappointing to see these films regress with tech. I know Snyder probably didn't get to finish it the way he wanted but still this is way below his standards. And its not just the DCEU either. Most of the comic book films since Man of Steel have been terrible with CGI. So much money flushed down the toilet. Shame no one ever courted Cameron to do a universe with these type of characters. Would have been true justice.
-Gentle and jokingly soft ass Batman. Such a 180 from the savage he was in BvS.
-First half hour of the film had very weird pacing.
-Not enough Superman.
-Music was terrible and forgettable. I mean there was barely anything there.
Overall I would give the film an 8 out of 10 and would put it in the top 3 so far. Its so disappointing to see the once dark artistic Snyder direction turned into such a crowd pleasing movie like this. But it is what it is at this point and not much can be done about it unfortunately.
1) Man of Steel = 10/10 (still the best and most rounded film. Best villain, best sound, best CGI, best acting, best story and best action)
2) Wonder Woman = 9/10
3) Justice League = 8/10
4) BvS = 8/10
5) SS = 7/10.
If they add like 20-30 more minutes of scenes in to later release of JL I could see it being bumped up to an 9 but it would depend on what they add. The troubled production means it will probably be nothing.
You will get solo projects like Nolans movies (I'm sure that Matt Reeves movies will 100% be stand alone) and that's about it....Maybe not a bad way to go but DC should be more than Batman.
The fact that not even WW doing well brought people out shows that there are no interest in these characters and that's bad for DC branding.
Seriously this could have not ended up in a worse place. I should not like things all they end up doing is getting destroyed...
This should have been a celebration of firsts for these characters I grew up with and now it's worth dirt to everyone else.
In happy for marvel. I like marvel. Not like I love DC but hey its something positive for comic properties.
I reckon that they go no more higher than 150M on those movies.
Well, I guess this basically kills also a Superman sequel. Batman is always a lock, Aquaman is done, doubt they'll do anything to Wonder Woman 2 and Shazam! and they might try to fasttrack Flashpoint.
Worst case scenario: Aquaman is the last DCEU movie.
Edit: There is also a good chance that this comes under 90M btw. RIP.
Some drastic changes happened when the first movie starring Batman and Superman opened at $156m and had terrible reviews. Now imagine what's going to happen when the first film starring your six major characters opens at sub $100m and terrible reviews, especially when one of them just had a solo outing a few months prior and shattered a ton of records while being a critical success.
Matt Reeves and Gareth Evans are both better directors than Snyder. I don't necessarily want dc to follow in mcus footsteps but they really needed a big change. This slate of movies is really hard to like for most ppl tbh, outside of wonder woman which is more or less closer in line to the other comic stuff we get every year. Albeit with more heart in its lead character portrayal.
For today's numbers you'll most likely get them at some point around midday tomorrow.
I know I sound like a broken record, but all they gotta do is just focus on solo adventures going forward. Also movies that have a modest budget. Batgirl and Nightwing would thrive with a bugdet that's kept in line. Flash and Aquaman are the only two movies I can think that need a huge budget. You shouldn't even have that issue with Batman movies.
Some drastic changes happened when the first movie starring Batman and Superman opened at $156m and had terrible reviews. Now imagine what's going to happen when the first film starring your six major characters opens at sub $100m, especially when one of them just had a solo outing a few months prior and shattered a ton of records while being a critical success, and terrible reviews.
Yeah, I'm not going overboard and saying this is the end of the EU
But uh
I am going to suggest you look at that list of like 15 to 20 announced films they have for its future, because I would bank on a significant amount of them not being made, including Cyborg, Lobo, and Green Lantern Corps
Some drastic changes happened when the first movie starring Batman and Superman opened at $156m and had terrible reviews. Now imagine what's going to happen when the first film starring your six major characters opens at sub $100m and terrible reviews, especially when one of them just had a solo outing a few months prior and shattered a ton of records while being a critical success.
As long as I get my Matt Reeves Batman film (preferably without Affleck) and a Gareth Evans Deathstroke flick, I genuinely could not care less about the fate of the rest.
Frankly, I've been bored with "connected universes" since Age of Ultron.
-Villain was terrible. Don't know what they were thinking with this. Such a big gamble by Snyder and WB that didn't pay off in any way. There is like hundreds of different villains in the JL universe they could have gone with. I don't know why they picked the lamest one. They should have let them fight Darkseid. Don't know why they are trying to hold him off as some finale. Steppenwolf should have been like an appetizer fight for the first half and Darkseid fight should have ended the film. Or something along those lines. That would have been a true Snyder film imo. This was just half baked and kind of meaningless.
Batman is safe. I'm so glad they signed on Reeves before this string of disappointing news, likely could have scared him off. Shame about superman tho. I don't see him getting a movie for at least 4 or 5 years. Maybe not even with the same actor
Also this big Harley focus sounds wack. I hope she doesn't appear in the Batman stuff for even a minute
I think you guys put way too much stock in "talent getting scared off" They'll have no issues getting talent. For how good the last Apes movies was. Didn't it under perform as well? Also instead of getting worked up now just wait until Sunday to get worked up. Wait for an official number instead of freaking out on a Friday afternoon.
Some drastic changes happened when the first movie starring Batman and Superman opened at $156m and had terrible reviews. Now imagine what's going to happen when the first film starring your six major characters opens at sub $100m and terrible reviews, especially when one of them just had a solo outing a few months prior and shattered a ton of records while being a critical success.
On the other hand, JL is the last gasp of the pre-dramatic changes order of things. Synder's gone now, they've got entirely different people heading things up than when MoS, BvS, SS, and JL got thought up. Could be they just write it off and move full steam ahead on their plans.
20 years? I doubt I'll be around to see it at this rate. Fucking hell.
I done mind solo movies but they won't use the breadth of DC characters.. they will continue to use Batman (non DCCU version) and seemingly bat characters if that tweet is correct.
You might get a WW.. But how does that work given that no one turned out for her this time and its character is in this branding for now.
You won't be getting flash, cyborg, green lantern hell I doubt we will see a superman movie for years and years.
No idea what's going to happen to Aquaman but I could see them taking it as a loss unless they feel they can make solo films out of the branded characters.
Some drastic changes happened when the first movie starring Batman and Superman opened at $156m and had terrible reviews. Now imagine what's going to happen when the first film starring your six major characters opens at sub $100m and terrible reviews, especially when one of them just had a solo outing a few months prior and shattered a ton of records while being a critical success.
As long as I get my Matt Reeves Batman film (preferably without Affleck) and a Gareth Evans Deathstroke flick, I genuinely could not care less about the fate of the rest.
Frankly, I've been bored with "connected universes" since Age of Ultron.
On the other hand, JL is the last gasp of the pre-dramatic changes order of things. Synder's gone now, they've got entirely different people heading things up than when MoS, BvS, SS, and JL got thought up. Could be they just write it off and move full steam ahead on their plans.
Not enough people turned up for these characters though.
I don't know how to take WW success now, did it work because you can pull these characters and make them solo? Was it a fluke that people wanted to see it. I don't think it was a fluke that it was well received it was a great film but I think it being the first WE movie ever made a big difference.
WWs good will did nothing for JL is fact though.
Don't expect flashpoint people.. if you are hoping for it be a way to reset it won't work now.
Not enough people turned up for these characters though.
I don't know how to take WW success now, did it work because you can pull these characters and make them solo? Was it a fluke that people wanted to see it. I don't think it was a fluke that it was well received it was a great film but I think it being the first WE movie ever made a big difference.
WWs good will did nothing for JL is fact though.
Don't expect flashpoint people.. if you are hoping for it be a way to reset it won't work now.
WW was also a good movie, and everyone said as such. If Aquaman shows a cool trailer with cool shit of stuff we haven't really seen that's step one. Also if it's good. I think people would show up. Marketing has to be there as well and the marketing for this movie really just wasn't the best.
Not enough people turned up for these characters though.
I don't know how to take WW success now, did it work because you can pull these characters and make them solo? Was it a fluke that people wanted to see it. I don't think it was a fluke that it was well received it was a great film but I think it being the first WE movie ever made a big difference.
WWs good will did nothing for JL is fact though.
Don't expect flashpoint people.. if you are hoping for it be a way to reset it won't work now.
I think people will turn up for these characters in a movie they have some kind of faith in, though. Synder name + terrible reviews + middling marketing.
WW had crazy success because it reviewed extremely well and had great word of mouth, despite the character first appearing in a movie people by and large bounced off of. The same could just as well hold true for any DCEU movie going forward.
Not enough people turned up for these characters though.
I don't know how to take WW success now, did it work because you can pull these characters and make them solo? Was it a fluke that people wanted to see it. I don't think it was a fluke that it was well received it was a great film but I think it being the first WE movie ever made a big difference.
WWs good will did nothing for JL is fact though.
Don't expect flashpoint people.. if you are hoping for it be a way to reset it won't work now.
Wonder Woman was well-received because it and its characters were written well. JL is honestly a bland mess. It's an epside straight out of the JL animated series.
Isn't this what people said about Wonder Woman? Unless I missed something, Aquaman didn't seem to change very much since it was first annouced, which means it's still got Snyder roots in it.
Johns and Berg don't get to celebrate their own victory until Wonder Woman 2 at this point.
I think people will turn up for these characters in a movie they have some kind of faith in, though. Synder name + terrible reviews + middling marketing.
WW had crazy success because it reviewed extremely well and had great word of mouth, despite the character first happearing in a movie people by and large bounced off of. The same could just as well hold true for any DCEU movie going forward.
Honest question do general movie audiences even care or know who Snyder is? I get that comic fans and movie fans do.
And I agree about WW but why did she not get those people into JL? It has to be more of a reason than snyders name I think. I hope your right about the other characters but I don't see many of them going into production now.
I can just not believe this is where we ended up. This whole thing is so depressing. I honestly though that whole being critically panned that the fact BvS and SS made money and WW was loved that meant people would have given JL a chance.
Gal was signed on from the start. It was a multi-movie contract, and Patty got the highest payday for a female director in history for the sequel with her deal. Both are signed and WB moved the release date up six weeks to November 1st, 2019 to avoid Episode IX.
I think people will turn up for these characters in a movie they have some kind of faith in, though. Synder name + terrible reviews + middling marketing.
WW had crazy success because it reviewed extremely well and had great word of mouth, despite the character first appearing in a movie people by and large bounced off of. The same could just as well hold true for any DCEU movie going forward.
Yea I don't get the call to wipe the slate clean. And then do solo movies.
Like that's exactly what they are doing after JL. Aquaman is a year off. I think that's plenty of time imo. They do have an empty slate and I'm sure a lot of that is to make adjustments based on this movie. They should just let this movie ride out let people get the hot takes out of the way. Kinda who quiet for a while. And come with something at Comic Con. Release your solo slate and Make Aquaman your big event.
Gal was signed on from the start. It was a multi-movie contract, and Patty got the highest payday for a female director in history for the sequel with her deal. Both are signed and WB moved the release date up six weeks to November 1st, 2019 to avoid Episode IX.
Yea I don't get the call to wipe the slate clean. And then do solo movies.
Like that's exactly what they are doing after JL. Aquaman is a year off. I think that's plenty of time imo. They do have an empty slate and I'm sure a lot of that is to make adjustments based on this movie. They should just let this movie ride out let people get the hot takes out of the way. Kinda who quiet for a while. And come with something at Comic Con. Release your solo slate and Make Aquaman your big event.
Gal was signed on from the start. It was a multi-movie contract, and Patty got the highest payday for a female director in history for the sequel with her deal. Both are signed and WB moved the release date up six weeks to November 1st, 2019 to avoid Episode IX.
You seem pretty well connected, you knew the run time early and so on....what the hell do you thinks happens if the sub 100 mil cratering boxofficre plays out like reporting is indicating and JL ends up the biggest dud of the major 2017 super hero films?
DCEU is pretty much other than Wonder Woman has to be burned down at that point yeah?
Isn't this what people said about Wonder Woman? Unless I missed something, Aquaman didn't seem to change very much since it was first annouced, which means it's still got Snyder roots in it.
Johns and Berg don't get to celebrate their own victory until Wonder Woman 2 at this point.
Aquaman IMO it's tied to the MoS, BvS, JL stuff. It also seems production for it has been smooth sailing. The movie is done. JL started literally right when BvS was releasing I believe
It's something Marvel has made a point to do in every single one of their movies without exception and I can't understand why WB hasn't figured it out. It's a staple in pretty much all action movies too. Imagine if John Mcclane looked like this
You do realise that Zod lost his helmet near the start of the fight and then lost large parts of his battle armour as the fight progressed? Plus the point was they were beating each other across the city into a stalemate and decisive actions had to be taken.
Flashpoint is not really a solo movie. And if they're using it to pin their hopes on a reset then it sounds like a terrible idea already. They should be focusing on giving flash a good movie singularly focused on him. Not on messing with the whole overarching story and film slate on hand.
What I would like to see going forward personally is.
WB goes to Nolan and dumps a lot of money at his doorstep to do Flashpoint. It would be right up his alley with all the time traveling nonsense. He will deliver and restart whatever they need with all the films.
So..
Aquaman = late 2018
Wonder Woman 2 = late 2019
Flashpoint early 2020 and Batman late 2020.
Green Lantern = 2021
Man of Steel 2 = 2022
Justice League 2 = 2023
Gotham Sirens, Batgirl and whatever other Harley Quinn + Joker stuff they are doing can be sprinkled in for 2021 and 2022 I guess. Cyborg was pretty cool in JL too so he should get his own film at some point. At the very least they need to involve him in some of the other solo movies.
And it will be like it was after Wonder Woman, people started looking favorably on DC even if they were cautious, they just need to keep that going and people will forget.
I have no doubt that if Superman and Batman had a competent director they would have been just as big if not bigger than WW. WB need to hire good talent and let them do their thing and DCCU will be fine.
And btw, Gal isn't signed for Wonder Woman's sequel. Yet. She had a 3 films deal: Batman v Superman, Wonder Woman and Justice League. We even had a thread about this the other day:
I'm sure that they are working for a new deal with her and Wonder Woman 2 is definitely happening. These box office numbers for Justice League while troubling, I feel that the film itself regardless how much flawed it is might be what it needed to start the course-correction moving forward. I do hope that Flashpoint happens, but I'm not holding my breath.
What I would like to see going forward personally is.
WB goes to Nolan and dumps a lot of money at his doorstep to do Flashpoint. It would be right up his alley with all the time traveling nonsense. He will deliver and restart whatever they need with all the films.
So..
Aquaman = late 2018
Wonder Woman 2 = late 2019
Flashpoint early 2020 and Batman late 2020.
Green Lantern = 2021
Man of Steel 2 = 2022
Justice League 2 = 2023
Gotham Sirens, Batgirl and whatever other Harley Quinn + Joker stuff they are doing can be sprinkled in for 2021 and 2022 I guess. Cyborg was pretty cool in JL too so he should get his own film at some point. At the very least they need to involve him in some of the other solo movies.
