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DCEU Era |OT2| Joker's Wild

Erza won

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 27.3%
  • Oh hell yes

    Votes: 32 72.7%

  • Total voters
    44

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,770
People on Twitter are saying that Toronto reactions are very different from those of Venice. Seems like critics there are looking at the film from a social angle compared to the artistic angle that we saw in Venice.
 

Cpt-GargameL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,885

Dysun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,308
Miami
The pearl clutching about the Joker movie is pretty funny when you consider the reaction to any politician saying video games cause violence.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,642
I didn't realize until now Montoya is played by a 55 year old actress,
I don't know why they keep trying to push her as an older character. Gotham kinda did the same as well.

Guess im just always going to prefer her and Bullock partnership with him as the older veteran and her being newer.
 

Pein

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,316
NYC
Joker clip incredible.

Jared leto must feel awful, I didn't hate him in squad but what a lackluster version compared to ledger and pheonix, if he gets a shot at it again he really needs to change it around from zany mob boss.

Yo mana was so delusional, its insane how he can come to the idea people were harassing him here. he just spouted BS nonstop about anything that wasn't disney and if you called him out on it he plays victim.
 
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Emily

Member
Oct 24, 2017
1,133
I haven't watched those clips, but aren't they from the climax of the film? Surprised that people would spoil some of the best parts of the film for themselves.

What makes the movie great is the slow buildup to those scenes.
 
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Pandora012

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,560
I haven't watched those clips, but aren't they from the climax of the film? Surprised that people would spoil some of the best parts of the film for themselves.

What makes the movie great is the slow buildup to those scenes.
Ehhh depends. Some people are able to spoil themselves, yet still enjoy the movie just as much. I know I'm one of them. Tho i didn't see the clip, i do know what happens, and I'm excited to see what gets us there.
 

Pein

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,316
NYC
Spoilers really don’t bother me, I’ve spoiled myself on basically everything and can watch stuff no problem.
 

BadAss2961

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,953
Jared leto must feel awful, I didn't hate him in squad but what a lackluster version compared to ledger and pheonix, if he gets a shot at it again he really needs to change it around from zany mob boss.
It's inevitable, but I don't like comparing this Joker to other Jokers. Leto's Joker is a side character with like 5 minutes of screentime. Phoenix's Joker is his own movie, unrestricted by a PG-13 rating or having to play by any rules of canon... Technically, he's not even the Joker. Even to Ledger and Nicholson it's an unfair comparison.

Having said that, we probably won't be getting a Joker on this level until the day there's an R or TV-MA Batman series. Hopefully this movie's success helps greenlight something like that in the future. Because canon or not, the character's always had this in him. Whatever he does in 'Joker', he's probably already done in some panels (and worse.) Batman movies just couldn't portray him this graphically.
 

jrush64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,415
That joker topic is something else. So many people with agendas. The loudest ones always seem like they post a lot in you know what threads.
 

Vordan

Member
Aug 12, 2018
1,033
Should have gotten an oscar nomination for best supporting actor for that performance.
He got a Razzie nomination which is the true kino award.

Someday maybe I’ll understand why people think Eisenberg’s shitty Heath Ledger Joker Act was a good Lex performance. Because that shit was pure Silver Age cringe, beloved by people who shittalk the Donner films.
That joker topic is something else. So many people with agendas. The loudest ones always seem like they post a lot in you know what threads.
Don’t see why people think this movie is going to inspire incels when Trump’s twitter account is already doing that and is free.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
1,397
Maybe its because I'm indifferent to Lex as a character that them changing him didnt bother me in the least.

I thought he was good in the role as it was written. And I just liked the take on him. I thought Jesse gave a great performance for what it was. But I'm also a snyder fan and an eisenberg fan so.

Loved the rooftop scene, loved the red capes are coming scene, loved the bells have been rung scene and I loved his theme music.

If his character was called something else would people still hate him?
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
1,397
I wish I could read that thread but I dont want to be spoiled. The insanity and hysteria surrounding his film is something to behold. Between the spidey news and this film the MCU/Disney fans sure are having a moment.

And I bet Todd and Joaquin are loving it.
 

Vordan

Member
Aug 12, 2018
1,033
Maybe its because I'm indifferent to Lex as a character that them changing him didnt bother me in the least.

I thought he was good in the role as it was written. And I just liked the take on him. I thought Jesse gave a great performance for what it was. But I'm also a snyder fan and an eisenberg fan so.

Loved the rooftop scene, loved the red capes are coming scene, loved the bells have been rung scene and I loved his theme music.

If his character was called something else would people still hate him?
Not if they called him the Riddler. He would’ve been fucking perfect in that role.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
1,397
I dont know where else to say this, and as someone who thinks the last thing this forum needs is more moderation it's strange to say. But keeping in line with the modding style attempting to want to elicit discussion.

The discourse in threads would be better if the following words were banned.


Oof
Yikes
Edgy
Edgelord
 

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,770
Says 84 for me. Two new rotten reviews came in.
As expected, more "this movie is bad for society" takes. I understand why people might have that idea but unfortunately them complaining about it leads to demented individuals taking advantage of the situation. So instead of blaming the abundance and easy access of guns or the lack of mental health care future mass murderers can just say "well joker made me do it." It's just so stupid.

At least these critics might feel vindicated though... which is probably what they want to feel right now.
 

Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,868
As expected, more "this movie is bad for society" takes. I understand why people might have that idea but unfortunately them complaining about it leads to demented individuals taking advantage of the situation. So instead of blaming the abundance and easy access of guns or the lack of mental health care future mass murderers can just say "well joker made me do it." It's just so stupid.

At least these critics might feel vindicated though... which is probably what they want to feel right now.
Yep. America has far bigger problems than this movie lol
 

Smokey_Run

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,795
Folks, clearly the problem isn't the ability to grab an AR-15 in an afternoon and then buy 1,000 rounds of ammunition online, it's the Joker getting his own film.

It's amazing to see the left starting to pick up on this "media causes violence" playbook from the right.
 

NinjaDBL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
706
Lmao one of the reviews without any explanation just says they straight up hated it. What the hell kind of review is that?
 

MHWilliams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,044
It's less "media causes violence" and more, "Hey, what is your movie putting out there?" IT Chapter 2 begins with a much-talked about hate crime for example, and part of the conversation has been on the necessary nature of it in the film, and how that portrayal was handled. People of course go back and forth on that.

The Joker thing has largely been about how his motivations line up with similar real-world ideologies. And the question is: what does it say about them? Given that it's somewhat sympathetic, does it say "Hey, that's a perfectly valid and understandable way to be?" Does it give a pass in presentation? Which is probably the spot that some critics have issue with.

See also: Three Billboards and the conversation around a more sympathetic portrayal of racism. Which is to say, they made a serious film. This is the big boy pond. Welcome to the conversations.
 

Penguin

The Mushroom Kingdom Knight
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,775
New York
It's less "media causes violence" and more, "Hey, what is your movie putting out there?" IT Chapter 2 begins with a much-talked about hate crime for example, and part of the conversation has been on the necessary nature of it in the film, and how that portrayal was handled. People of course go back and forth on that.

The Joker thing has largely been about how his motivations line up with similar real-world ideologies. And the question is: what does it say about them? Given that it's somewhat sympathetic, does it say "Hey, that's a perfectly valid and understandable way to be?" Does it give a pass in presentation? Which is probably the spot that some critics have issue with.

See also: Three Billboards and the conversation around a more sympathetic portrayal of racism. Which is to say, they made a serious film. This is the big boy pond. Welcome to the conversations.
I'm going to jump into this thread, to say I agree with you for the most part.

Except almost all of those discussions happened after the films were released and people could have a proper discussion about their context. So much of the Joker's discourse is from a large portion of people who haven't seen the film. And started long before people had. And I think that's why it feels odd/off to me.

Like it feels more like concern trolling than a legitimate debate because so few can actually say seen the film and its context.
 

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,770
It's less "media causes violence" and more, "Hey, what is your movie putting out there?" IT Chapter 2 begins with a much-talked about hate crime for example, and part of the conversation has been on the necessary nature of it in the film, and how that portrayal was handled. People of course go back and forth on that.

The Joker thing has largely been about how his motivations line up with similar real-world ideologies. And the question is: what does it say about them? Given that it's somewhat sympathetic, does it say "Hey, that's a perfectly valid and understandable way to be?" Does it give a pass in presentation? Which is probably the spot that some critics have issue with.

See also: Three Billboards and the conversation around a more sympathetic portrayal of racism. Which is to say, they made a serious film. This is the big boy pond. Welcome to the conversations.
To be fair it does seem like Todd Phillip's intention was to make the Joker into an sympathetic character who acted out his impulses as a result of how society treated him, that's definitely not ok in the real world but this is just a film and anyone who takes inspiration from the Joker is already a sick individual.


I personally don't feel that a movie should be judged on its morality but rather on whether it gets its creative vision across and based on what Todd Phillips said his intention was to make Joker sympathetic at the start of the movie but as the movie progresses he commits acts that most people will find repulsive and unjustifiable. It doesn't explicitly point those out of course, most people should already know that it's wrong to be a murderer.
 

MHWilliams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,044
I'm going to jump into this thread, to say I agree with you for the most part.

Except almost all of those discussions happened after the films were released and people could have a proper discussion about their context. So much of the Joker's discourse is from a large portion of people who haven't seen the film. And started long before people had. And I think that's why it feels odd/off to me.

Like it feels more like concern trolling than a legitimate debate because so few can actually say seen the film and its context.
I'd agree for those in our threads, which is why I always tell y'all not to read them. (See also: Star Wars threads dealing with TLJ!) I was addressing the critical reception.

To be fair it does seem like Todd Phillip's intention was to make the Joker into an sympathetic character who acted out his impulses as a result of how society treated him, that's definitely not ok in the real world but this is just a film and anyone who takes inspiration from the Joker is already a sick individual.


I personally don't feel that a movie should be judged on its morality but rather on whether it gets its creative vision across and based on what Todd Phillips said his intention was to make Joker sympathetic at the start of the movie but as the movie progresses he commits acts that most people will find repulsive and unjustifiable. It doesn't explicitly point those out of course, most people should already know that it's wrong to be a murderer.
Right, but is a movie's aim is directly racist and that was its aim, do you give it a pass? Of course not. Take the original Birth of a Nation, as an extreme example, or perhaps Clint Eastwood's The Mule as a lighter, more recent one. Again, this talk is less about Joker in and of itself, and more talking about some of these arguments. Which is to say, critically, these discussions are going to be had, and some may in fact have very stark responses, especially if sexual violence is a part of the film. (Most reports do not mentioned this about Joker. Again, bigger picture talk here.)
 
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Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,770
Right, but is a movie's aim is directly racist and that was its aim, do you give it a pass? Of course not. Take the original Birth of a Nation, as an extreme example, or perhaps Clint Eastwood's The Mule as a lighter, more recent one. Again, this talk is less about Joker in and of itself, and more talking about some of these arguments. Which is to say, critically, these discussions are going to be had, and some may in fact have very stark responses, especially if sexual violence is a part of the film. (Most reports do not mentioned this about Joker. Again, bigger picture talk here.)
That is a very good point you raise. I just find the critical reception for this movie to be fascinating. Some critics have pointed out that maybe the movie doesn't really go far enough and that I assume is what you mentioned in relation to sexual violence. I think the movie completely avoids that in order to not be even more controversial.
 

Smokey_Run

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,795
It's less "media causes violence" and more, "Hey, what is your movie putting out there?" IT Chapter 2 begins with a much-talked about hate crime for example, and part of the conversation has been on the necessary nature of it in the film, and how that portrayal was handled. People of course go back and forth on that.

The Joker thing has largely been about how his motivations line up with similar real-world ideologies. And the question is: what does it say about them? Given that it's somewhat sympathetic, does it say "Hey, that's a perfectly valid and understandable way to be?" Does it give a pass in presentation? Which is probably the spot that some critics have issue with.

See also: Three Billboards and the conversation around a more sympathetic portrayal of racism. Which is to say, they made a serious film. This is the big boy pond. Welcome to the conversations.
I understand and I'm fine with having long-form critical analysis and discussions. However, I bring it up because of a unique situation I found myself in the other night. I work third shift and my co-worker was watching some trash right-wing show that was on at 2am or whatever. One of the segments was on violence in the media and they were blaming Hollywood for it's impact on gun violence in America (someone had a eureka moment and got video games into the discussion for good measure). I just happened to be reading the Joker thread and it was like an echo chamber at times between what I was hearing and what I was reading.

Don't stoop to that level of pearl clutching moral panic, because it just reinforces the right's position that guns aren't the problem -- which I think is a far more dangerous long-term issue than this film or others.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
1,397
I think the issue is that a lot of critics are just people and are susceptible to having agendas. And some of these negative reviews dont read like they came from a place of good faith. They read like long forum posts by somebody with an axe to grind, that had their mind made up before seeing the film.