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DCEU Era |OT2| Joker's Wild

Erza won

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 27.3%
  • Oh hell yes

    Votes: 32 72.7%

  • Total voters
    44

MHWilliams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,045
I understand and I'm fine with having long-form critical analysis and discussions. However, I bring it up because of a unique situation I found myself in the other night. I work third shift and my co-worker was watching some trash right-wing show that was on at 2am or whatever. One of the segments was on violence in the media and they were blaming Hollywood for it's impact on gun violence in America (someone had a eureka moment and got video games into the discussion for good measure). I just happened to be reading the Joker thread and it was like an echo chamber at times between what I was hearing and what I was reading.

Don't stoop to that level of pearl clutching moral panic, because it just reinforces the right's position that guns aren't the problem -- which I think is a far more dangerous long-term issue than this film or others.
100 percent agree.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
1,399
Yes it's been straight up weird to read this forum condemning this movie while getting angry at video games being blamed.

If you think a film is capable of that than video games are too.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,408
It's less "media causes violence" and more, "Hey, what is your movie putting out there?" IT Chapter 2 begins with a much-talked about hate crime for example, and part of the conversation has been on the necessary nature of it in the film, and how that portrayal was handled. People of course go back and forth on that.

The Joker thing has largely been about how his motivations line up with similar real-world ideologies. And the question is: what does it say about them? Given that it's somewhat sympathetic, does it say "Hey, that's a perfectly valid and understandable way to be?" Does it give a pass in presentation? Which is probably the spot that some critics have issue with.

See also: Three Billboards and the conversation around a more sympathetic portrayal of racism. Which is to say, they made a serious film. This is the big boy pond. Welcome to the conversations.
This is where I’m at too, especially after watching the clips. That Joker thread was a fucking dumpster fire.

Yes it's been straight up weird to read this forum condemning this movie while getting angry at video games being blamed.

If you think a film is capable of that than video games are too.
I’m going to disagree for two reasons.
1) Era isn’t a hive mind, the posters Pearl-clutching about Joker aren’t necessarily the ones getting upset about video game criticism.
2) criticism about games is literally just ‘they have violence in them’ when the discussions about Joker are due to the motivations of the violence and how those motivations are portrayed.

Doesn’t make it not dumb, given practically nobody here has seen the film at all.
 

BadAss2961

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,953
This is where I’m at too, especially after watching the clips. That Joker thread was a fucking dumpster fire.


I’m going to disagree for two reasons.
1) Era isn’t a hive mind, the posters Pearl-clutching about Joker aren’t necessarily the ones getting upset about video game criticism.
2) criticism about games is literally just ‘they have violence in them’ when the discussions about Joker are due to the motivations of the violence and how those motivations are portrayed.

Doesn’t make it not dumb, given practically nobody here has seen the film at all.
But of course they are. I'm sure one of the few things just about everyone here would agree on is that blaming the vidya games is bs. You won't see much of any calls for mainstream game censorship in relation to gun violence here, but you'll have plenty of pearl-clutching over a Joker film.

Era isn't a hive mind, there's just too many people. But it's style of moderation definitely tries to make it one. There is a wrong opinion to have on certain things, and you will get banned for sharing them. Carried right over from GAF.
 

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,770
I can see RT changing the critical consensus now that Joker is below 80%. American critics...

Looking for excuses instead of tackling the gun worship problem. I personally hate guns, will never own guns but I love shooters and don’t mind violence in movies. Some people should just get a grip on reality.

I also wonder what the discourse would be towards this movie if incels or the alt right weren’t really a thing. It seems to me that people propping this film to be some banner for those bad individuals will only help make that a reality.
 
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Boke18

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,477
Yall gotta stop worrying what an RT score means for consensus. I feel this movie is going to kill it at the box office. IDK how well it'll do long term, but with a tame budget it's going to do fine. My 63 year old mom wants to see this movie.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
1,399
I never understood why RT pumps out a consensus blurb so quickly. It has always seemed very strange because they often have to change it.
 

Cpt-GargameL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,887
Looking for excuses instead of tackling the gun worship problem. I personally hate guns, will never own guns but I love shooters and don’t mind violence in movies. Some people should just get a grip on reality.

I also wonder what the discourse would be towards this movie if incels or the alt right weren’t really a thing. It seems to me that people propping this film to be some banner for those bad individuals will only help make that a reality.
I had mentioned this when the review thread came about. They're basically advertising for these said individuals and making it know more and more with each reply about it.
 

BadAss2961

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,953
I can see RT changing the critical consensus now that Joker is below 80%. American critics...

Looking for excuses instead of tackling the gun worship problem. I personally hate guns, will never own guns but I love shooters and don’t mind violence in movies. Some people should just get a grip on reality.

I also wonder what the discourse would be towards this movie if incels or the alt right weren’t really a thing. It seems to me that people propping this film to be some banner for those bad individuals will only help make that a reality.
Are critics knocking it more objectively, or does it come off as bitterness towards the content?

I don't read reviews.
 

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,770
Yeah there’s legitimate criticism, then there are those who say it’s too bleak and that it lacks a moral compass.
 

Chuck Noblet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,793
You can just tell they want to do the complete opposite of the reviews that came out around the Venice Film Festival
Some reviews start with like 2-3 paragraphs complaining about other reviews and the Venice film festival itself. For some reason it's a problem the film world wasn't united in condemning the movie and a foreign film festival should cater to Americans specific worries.

The whole world isn't about America lol.


I'm sure the movie isn't perfect but some people just went in mind already made up. Which is, whatever. People gonna be people. But then those reviews read so weird.


No reason to worry tho. The movie will be fine.
 

Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,868
Some reviews start with like 2-3 paragraphs complaining about other reviews and the Venice film festival itself. For some reason it's a problem the film world wasn't united in condemning the movie and a foreign film festival should cater to Americans specific worries.

The whole world isn't about America lol.


I'm sure the movie isn't perfect but some people just went in mind already made up. Which is, whatever. People gonna be people. But then those reviews read so weird.


No reason to worry tho. The movie will be fine.
Agreed on all points. Most of those new TIFF reviews are utter nonsense imo.

But yeah, regardless of the RT/MC scores, this movie is gonna make bank (and probably sweep several awards too).
 

NinjaDBL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
706
It does seem international critics are praising this more than American critics which I find interesting lol.
 

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,770
Another fascinating review from a top critic: https://www.vulture.com/2019/09/joker-2019-movie-review.html

After the eight-minute standing ovation for Joker at the Venice Film Festival, the 20 seconds or so of enthusiastic (seated) applause at the Toronto International Film Festival came as a relief, at least to one critic. Perhaps Canadians are temperamentally less inclined to shout “Bravissimo!” for operatic celebrations of psychosis. More likely, they chose to restore some balance by recognizing an accomplished movie with a tour-de-force leading performance, but also one that’s monotonous, unpleasant, and morally blech
As Hannah Arendt saw banality in the supposed evil of the Nazi Adolf Eichmann, I see in Joker an attempt to elevate nerdy revenge to the plane of myth. That’s scary on a lot of different levels.
... but I began to dread the inevitable outcome: that Arthur will be recognized as a Clown God in the circus of horror we call urban life.
I honestly don't see the Academy recognizing this film for anything anymore. A lot of these influential critics just absolutely hate the movie and the Academy wont want to further tarnish their already terrible reputation by giving it any awards or recognition.

Seems like if anything some of these critics are accomplishing making the film into a bigger controversy than it actually is by comparing it to nazi/incel/right wing propaganda that will ultimately just help the actual nazis and incels latch onto it. I'm already seeing youtube recommendations (which I will never watch) complaining about these critics as being SJWs.
 

Ross62

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,566
If the academy cares about what top critics thought then Green Book wouldn’t have won anything.
 

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,770
They got a lot of flak for awarding those films and I don't see it repeating. Also critics weren't as bent out of shape with those movies as they are with Joker. They see this as a life or death situation and as a moral obligation to get people to not see the movie.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,217
They got a lot of flak for awarding those films and I don't see it repeating. Also critics weren't as bent out of shape with those movies as they are with Joker. They see this as a life or death situation and as a moral obligation to get people to not see the movie.
Green Book was literally two years after Moonlight and after Oscars So White. The Academy does not give a flying fuck.
 

Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,868
Yeah I don't think the reviewers are gonna matter. They have far less "power" than they'd like to believe lol
 

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,770
Regardless of what happens I think this is a very interesting and possibly important moment in cinema history. We might even start seeing a political shift towards media consumption and how it effects people possibly leading to censorship.
 

Vordan

Member
Aug 12, 2018
1,033
Regardless of what happens I think this is a very interesting and possibly important moment in cinema history. We might even start seeing a political shift towards media consumption and how it effects people possibly leading to censorship.
Lmao you can’t be serious. America did nothing after Sandy Hook, even if some incel goes and shoots up a movie theater nothing is going to happen. Not in Trump’s America.
 

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,770
Lmao you can’t be serious. America did nothing after Sandy Hook, even if some incel goes and shoots up a movie theater nothing is going to happen. Not in Trump’s America.
We definitely wont be seeing from trump any gun control legislation and universal health care proposals which would assure that everyone has access to mental health care. But now that we have some progressives using the same right wing excuses of blaming media consumption for atrocities committed by psychopaths with guns it isn't too far fetched to believe that some democrats might eventually agree with republican who want to censor entertainment just as a scapegoat to avoid gun control.
 

bohex1984

Member
Oct 27, 2017
132
There are harsh reviews but there also great ones...if the movie appeals the public once it's released and becomes succesfull, which is likely, Oscars are definitely possible.

By the way, no one else thinks that all these repercussion around the movie will work as publicity? It's almost a month away lol
 

Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,062
There are harsh reviews but there also great ones...if the movie appeals the public once it's released and becomes succesfull, which is likely, Oscars are definitely possible.

By the way, no one else thinks that all these repercussion around the movie will work as publicity? It's almost a month away lol
I absolutely think it will work as publicity. The more outcry there is about it the more people will want to see it. Guaranteed. I think it's going to open big and also do well at the Oscars.
 

Emily

Member
Oct 24, 2017
1,133
Worth mentioning that a few critics giving negative reviews to 'Joker' also didn't care for Christopher Nolan's Batman movies either.

Stephanie Zacharek (TIME) gave negative/rotten reviews to both "The Dark Knight" and "Batman Begins".
David Edelstein (Vulture) gave negative/rotten reviews to both "The Dark Knight" and "The Dark Knight Rises.

If they didn't care much for Nolan's dark, gritty Batman movies, then it's doubtful they'll be interested in an R-rated Joker origin movie directed by Todd Philips.
 
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BadAss2961

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,953
Worth mentioning that a few critics giving negative reviews to 'Joker' also didn't care for Christopher Nolan's Batman movies either.

Stephanie Zacharek (TIME) gave negative/rotten reviews to both "The Dark Knight" and "Batman Begins".
David Edelstein (Vulture) gave negative/rotten reviews to both "The Dark Knight" and "The Dark Knight Rises.

If they didn't care much for Nolan's dark, gritty Batman movies, it's doubtful they'll care about an R-rated Joker origin movie directed by Todd Phillips.
I wouldn't look much into that. Nolan's Batman trilogy and Phillips' Joker probably have nothing in common other than the IP itself.

I could see plenty of people with little interest in Batman films taking an interest in Joker. It's not your usual comic book movie.
 

Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,062
I wouldn't look much into that. Nolan's Batman trilogy and Phillips' Joker probably have nothing in common other than the IP itself.

I could see plenty of people with little interest in Batman films taking an interest in Joker. It's not your usual comic book movie.
I think Emily is just saying that some of the critics were just not likely to have liked Joker in the first place.
 

Ross62

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,566
On the real tho, this deal is more for original content. Their trying to fill out Warner Media and set up newer properties.
 

Smokey_Run

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,795
So news of Abrams directing or at the very least producing the next Superman will happen before the year is over, yes?