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DCEU Era |OT2| Joker's Wild

Erza won

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 28.3%
  • Oh hell yes

    Votes: 33 71.7%

  • Total voters
    46

Vordan

Member
Aug 12, 2018
1,145
Other than what you said about the storytelling, none of those things are negatives in any way. Just because YOU don't like "edginess" or "desaturated" colors don't make them bad things. Hell, his films have been some of the best looking and one of the few that accurately captures what it would feel to be a superhero.

Making me defend Zack Snyder in my last few hours before work, I can't believe this shit.
The colors hurt the storytelling man. Snyder is trying to get us to care about the world but everything looks so washed out and ugly it’s hard to give a damn. Which is why most people didn’t care, what about the DCEU made it worth saving? Making everyone edgy also hurts the story. The death knell for any storyteller is “I don’t care what happens to these people” and that’s how most people felt about Superman and most of the other characters besides WW. In a movie where he dies for the first time on screen people were too busy making MARTHA memes. That’s a failure of scriptwriting and directing.
Can't agree with the actors. Gerard Butler gave the best performance of his career in 300. Watchmen had great acting across the board with a couple exceptions that just arent good actors but others giving career highlights. Cavill and Adams dont have chemistry true, but you cant really fake chemistry with two people. Its either their or it isn't. Ben gave a great performance in BVS and I thought him and Gal had great chemistry in the short time they shared on screen in it. So while I agree about Cavill and Adams, I think it's also a larger problem in CBM in general. The amount of on screen couples that were well done is a very small list. Garfield/Stone and Gadit/Pine stand out but most of them feel perfunctory at best.

I think Snyder films have mostly good acting performances. Even Dawn of the dead has good performances.
300 and Watchmen seem to be the exceptions. I thought Sucker Punch was really bad in that department for example. I thought Gal was far better in WW than BvS.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,233
The colors hurt the storytelling man. Snyder is trying to get us to care about the world but everything looks so washed out and ugly it’s hard to give a damn. Which is why most people didn’t care, what about the DCEU made it worth saving? Making everyone edgy also hurts the story. The death knell for any storyteller is “I don’t care what happens to these people” and that’s how most people felt about Superman and most of the other characters besides WW. In a movie where he dies for the first time on screen people were too busy making MARTHA memes. That’s a failure of scriptwriting and directing.

300 and Watchmen seem to be the exceptions. I thought Sucker Punch was really bad in that department for example. I thought Gal was far better in WW than BvS.
Well, like I said he is hate it or love it and you definitely fall under the hate it column. Which is fine, nobody is going to sway either of us in the other direction. 😂

I guess I just object to the mediocre label because of that polarization but I suppose that's just semantics and what mediocre meas to you.

Regardless, the Snyder DC era is over.
 

Vordan

Member
Aug 12, 2018
1,145
Well, like I said he is hate it or love it and you definitely fall under the hate it column. Which is fine, nobody is going to sway either of us in the other direction. 😂

I guess I just object to the mediocre label because of that polarization but I suppose that's just semantics and what mediocre meas to you.

Regardless, the Snyder DC era is over.
Lol I only really switched into “hate him” with BvS. Before that I thought MOS was a heavily flawed but still decent movie, nowhere near as bad as RT scored it. But BvS broke me and set me firmly opposed to his take. But it’s over now like you said. Things are looking up for DC Films as a whole.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,233
Lol I only really switched into “hate him” with BvS. Before that I thought MOS was a heavily flawed but still decent movie, nowhere near as bad as RT scored it. But BvS broke me and set me firmly opposed to his take. But it’s over now like you said. Things are looking up for DC Films as a whole.
Funny enough its the opposite for me. BVS is my favorite snyder film and I've watched it more than any other CBM. Something about it just vibes with me so much.

But its not like I hate other styles or anything, I adored Shazam for example.

We just like what we like end of the day.
 

Ross62

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,864
The colors hurt the storytelling man. Snyder is trying to get us to care about the world but everything looks so washed out and ugly it’s hard to give a damn. Which is why most people didn’t care, what about the DCEU made it worth saving? Making everyone edgy also hurts the story. The death knell for any storyteller is “I don’t care what happens to these people” and that’s how most people felt about Superman and most of the other characters besides WW. In a movie where he dies for the first time on screen people were too busy making MARTHA memes. That’s a failure of scriptwriting and directing.

300 and Watchmen seem to be the exceptions. I thought Sucker Punch was really bad in that department for example. I thought Gal was far better in WW than BvS.
This is like a total misread of the films. But I guess we view the colors entirely differently.And we make memes out of anything, have you been on Twitter lately? There’s OJ Simpson memes as far as the eye can seem the dissonance is already there.
 

bigstef71

Member
Jul 5, 2018
380
Chicago
Hoping Billy cameos at the end of Black Adam to build up hype for the two to crossover. But I also want a follow up to Mister Mind so I’m not sure if Black Adam vs. Shazam should be Shazam 2 or 3.

No he’s definitely mediocre. Having cool action scenes is not what directing is all about. He’s terrible at storytelling and at getting the best out of his actors. Adams is a phenomenal actress but you sure as hell wouldn’t know it from these movies where Cavill and her have all the chemistry of a wet log. His washed out desaturated colors reminds me of all the generic military shooters of the 2000s. His edginess is reminiscent of the worst Dark Age of Comics storytelling, with big hulking brutes shuffling around murdering people and pseudo intellectual ramblings about man’s inhumanity. He’s only ever had success with remakes or with copying better storyteller via recreating panels shot for shot.

I get that he’s popular here but his attempts at depth don’t hold up at all. Compare Joker to Snyder’s movies and you’ll see the gap in talent between the two.
Let's just agree to disagree then. He's definitely not for everyone. I don't see a problem with his fanbase asking for his version of JL to be released. It's not like he's going to come back and make more films. This will be closer for them
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,233
For me the films were about the characters all at their lowest, most lost, darkest. And finding hope and purpose again in each other. Finding their humanity again.

They arent about being edgy and dark, they are about redemption and hope.

As they say its darkest before the dawn.......of justice.
 

BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,050
For me the films were about the characters all at their lowest, most lost, darkest. And finding hope and purpose again in each other. Finding their humanity again.

They arent about being edgy and dark, they are about redemption and hope.

As they say its darkest before the dawn.......of justice.
It’s nice but that isn’t how it should start.
 

Vordan

Member
Aug 12, 2018
1,145
This is like a total misread of the films. But I guess we view the colors entirely differently.And we make memes out of anything, have you been on Twitter lately? There’s OJ Simpson memes as far as the eye can seem the dissonance is already there.
For a guy who claims he doesn’t want to defend Snyder you sure seem invested in doing exactly that. I’m giving my viewpoint man, and I’m not exactly alone in this. If you want to pull the “you just don’t GET it pleb” card fine but I’m done discussing this with you.
For me the films were about the characters all at their lowest, most lost, darkest. And finding hope and purpose again in each other. Finding their humanity again.

They arent about being edgy and dark, they are about redemption and hope.

As they say its darkest before the dawn.......of justice.
That interpretation doesn’t really line up with Snyder’s own revealed plans. Things were just going to get more and more dark up until the very end. His plans were:
-Have the Justice League defeat Steppenwolf by killing him (remember when he said Zod was going to be the start of Superman’s no kill rule commitment? Or how Batman was going to reclaim his old rules? Yeah that was bull).
-Darkseid is in the next film, he kills Lois, Superman goes evil, joins Darkseid, helps kill everyone
-Batman and Flash go back in time prevent that, Superman kills Darkseid, and then I guess Supes was going to name his kid Bruce which is the dumbest thing since Harry Potter naming his kid after the incel who bullied him and his friends in school and who got his mom and dad killed. Batman tried to murder him in cold blood and only stopped because he got to “save Martha” and go kill other people to sate his inferiority complex. I can not buy in any way DCEU Batman and Superman having the traditional relationship. Superman is never going to be able to trust this freak fully after that or at least logically he shouldn’t.

Things were just going to get darker and darker up until the very end and Snyder never had any intention of portraying these characters as they traditionally are. I have no clue how he thought this plan was going to turn around public option on his Superman, his interpretation of the character would just get more and more unlikeable imo.

I get his fanbase wanting the movie but the problem is they’re not going to stop there. They react incredibly aggressively to ANY perceived “slight” towards him or his vision. See “Shazam” where many of them were trying to attack it because it was so much lighter than other DC films, or how angry they got at Gadot and Jenkins when they said Diana “walking away” was a mistake. So I guess I just would prefer to let them hashtag and move on. Maybe after Gadot and Maoma are done put out the Snyder Cut and let that be the end.
 

Ross62

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,864
For a guy who claims he doesn’t want to defend Snyder you sure seem invested in doing exactly that. I’m giving my viewpoint man, and I’m not exactly alone in this. If you want to pull the “you just don’t GET it pleb” card fine but I’m done discussing this with you.

That interpretation doesn’t really line up with Snyder’s own revealed plans. Things were just going to get more and more dark up until the very end. His plans were:
-Have the Justice League defeat Steppenwolf by killing him (remember when he said Zod was going to be the start of Superman’s no kill rule commitment? Or how Batman was going to reclaim his old rules? Yeah that was bull).
-Darkseid is in the next film, he kills Lois, Superman goes evil, joins Darkseid, helps kill everyone
-Batman and Flash go back in time prevent that, Superman kills Darkseid, and then I guess Supes was going to name his kid Bruce which is the dumbest thing since Harry Potter naming his kid after the incel who bullied him and his friends in school and who got his mom and dad killed. Batman tried to murder him in cold blood and only stopped because he got to “save Martha” and go kill other people to sate his inferiority complex. I can not buy in any way DCEU Batman and Superman having the traditional relationship. Superman is never going to be able to trust this freak fully after that or at least logically he shouldn’t.

Things were just going to get darker and darker up until the very end and Snyder never had any intention of portraying these characters as they traditionally are. I have no clue how he thought this plan was going to turn around public option on his Superman, his interpretation of the character would just get more and more unlikeable imo.

I get his fanbase wanting the movie but the problem is they’re not going to stop there. They react incredibly aggressively to ANY perceived “slight” towards him or his vision. See “Shazam” where many of them were trying to attack it because it was so much lighter than other DC films, or how angry they got at Gadot and Jenkins when they said Diana “walking away” was a mistake. So I guess I just would prefer to let them hashtag and move on. Maybe after Gadot and Maoma are done put out the Snyder Cut and let that be the end.
I never said I didn’t want to defend him, just that I’d rather not spend my time off doing it 😌. And if your argument is “This world looks ugly, why bother saving it?” and putting words in my mouth, then you’re right we aren’t going to get far.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,233
For a guy who claims he doesn’t want to defend Snyder you sure seem invested in doing exactly that. I’m giving my viewpoint man, and I’m not exactly alone in this. If you want to pull the “you just don’t GET it pleb” card fine but I’m done discussing this with you.

That interpretation doesn’t really line up with Snyder’s own revealed plans. Things were just going to get more and more dark up until the very end. His plans were:
-Have the Justice League defeat Steppenwolf by killing him (remember when he said Zod was going to be the start of Superman’s no kill rule commitment? Or how Batman was going to reclaim his old rules? Yeah that was bull).
-Darkseid is in the next film, he kills Lois, Superman goes evil, joins Darkseid, helps kill everyone
-Batman and Flash go back in time prevent that, Superman kills Darkseid, and then I guess Supes was going to name his kid Bruce which is the dumbest thing since Harry Potter naming his kid after the incel who bullied him and his friends in school and who got his mom and dad killed. Batman tried to murder him in cold blood and only stopped because he got to “save Martha” and go kill other people to sate his inferiority complex. I can not buy in any way DCEU Batman and Superman having the traditional relationship. Superman is never going to be able to trust this freak fully after that or at least logically he shouldn’t.

Things were just going to get darker and darker up until the very end and Snyder never had any intention of portraying these characters as they traditionally are. I have no clue how he thought this plan was going to turn around public option on his Superman, his interpretation of the character would just get more and more unlikeable imo.

I get his fanbase wanting the movie but the problem is they’re not going to stop there. They react incredibly aggressively to ANY perceived “slight” towards him or his vision. See “Shazam” where many of them were trying to attack it because it was so much lighter than other DC films, or how angry they got at Gadot and Jenkins when they said Diana “walking away” was a mistake.
Well, I take no issues with where the story was going. Lots of comic stories, including those characters go in weird directions or serious stuff. At the end of the day the characters were still going to win by being a team and having hope in each other and man kind and fighting against insurmountable odds until they win. Just because the story itself has dark beats doesnt mean the characters were ever giving up hope.

I love the idea of pushing characters so hard and so extreme to challenge their very core. Which is why BVS and MOS work for me. They challenged who Superman was as a person, what he stood for. Pushed him to the very brink and at the end, he always chose heroism and sacrifice no matter the odds. That's inspiring hope to me. That no matter what, how far he is pushed he always made the choice to save humanity.



I don't care about characters being portrayed traditionally or sticking to the comics though, at all. Personally I've always found it weird how people can take something as fluid as comic characters, which has so many different versions and interpretations of characters and distill it into a box and won't allow it outside of it. It goes against ths very nature of comics to be so rigid.

When Nolan was making his films my excitement was in how he would interpret and portray characters in his own vision, and I felt the same for Snyder. And most of these CBM take huge liberties and our their own spin on characters.

At the end of the day Snyder either vibes with you or he didnt, and everything else is just noise. It's cool that you didn't like it, I loved it and was fascinated by where he was going.

I think a creative giving stories and characters his own spin is far more interesting than anything else, above all. But that's me. Being beholden to something else or critiquing something for what it isnt or what I want it to be is just not something I care for.

I do appreciate that some people just want a character as traditional as possible, nothing wrong with that.

And I agree. The hardcore people of any fan base can be ugly. Snyder, MCU, Star Wars. I hate that stuff.
 

BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,050
As much as I love both movies, MOS and BvS were better suited as mid point films. Had we gotten Shazam, Aquaman, and WW before those two, I think the audience would be more receptive.

And as pretty as those movies are, as good as the action is, those aspects didn’t overcome how rushed these films felt... with JL being the ultimate culmination of what went wrong.

It felt like we were skipping through the saiyan arc to get to Namek.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,233
It’s nice but that isn’t how it should start.
That's fair enough I liked it but understand the sentiment. Personally these characters are so iconic and well known I felt like I didnt need the films prior because I already understand them. Which is a funny enough thing to say, because the films feel like you have to be a fairly well versed comic fan to understand them while at the same time not being traditional at all as to anger the most hardcore. It is like the films were aimed at a niche of a niche.

Like a $250 million blockbuster with indie film story telling sensibilities. The whole films are kind of bizarre in that way and it's a wonder how they got made at all. A blockbuster cult film.


I will say this though and I've always stood by it. I think as time passes more and more people will revisit them and you'll see more people understand them and like them.

Even anecdotally I've run across it in real life. Last week we had an IT guy in our office and he saw my BVS Batman figure on my desk and struck up a convoy about BVS. Told me he hated the film at release, was happy when Snyder left. But as time has passed he keeps coming back to the film and now regrets his hatred and really wanted to see where the films were going.

Of course a lot of people will take their hatred of the film to their grave, they cant go a week without telling someone they hate Snyder online. 😂
 

IonicSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
916
Sweden
Imagine if the Snyder cut is actually worse than that abomination that we got. If that’s really the case I hope they bury it next to the ET game in the desert.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,272
Things were just going to get darker and darker up until the very end and Snyder never had any intention of portraying these characters as they traditionally are. I have no clue how he thought this plan was going to turn around public option on his Superman, his interpretation of the character would just get more and more unlikeable imo.


 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,233
Also as an aside, the snyder cut stuff keeps getting bigger and bigger as time passes. You even have notable people and not just fans jumping in now.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,233
So I recently bought a PSVR and I played through Batman Arkham VR.

OMG. So fucking good. Going into the bat cave. Looking in the mirror and seeing batman. Analyzing a crime scene. Going to Arkham. Just incredible.

I need a full length game but just this was incredible.

I been on a Batman kick. Now I need to finally play Arkham Knight (was burnt out after origins) and then telltale s2.
 

Vordan

Member
Aug 12, 2018
1,145
Imagine if the Snyder cut is actually worse than that abomination that we got. If that’s really the case I hope they bury it next to the ET game in the desert.
I mean the ones doing the hashtagging are already 100% on board with Snyder so I don’t expect his JL to disappoint them because they love everything he makes lol.
Seen that pic so many times and it gets so much wrong. I’m going to pick the three worst examples:
1. Saves Batman from himself
No he doesn’t. At all. Batman leaves because he finds a better outlet for his vengeance by proxy, and he kills all the thugs including using a gun to shoot the guy at the end. Batman still murders people after Superman.
2. Inspires Batman to be a better man
Uh he still uses guns in JL. Still is mowing down Parademons with the Batmobile.
3. Shows Diana that not all of humanity is lost
Well he’s not human so that doesn’t really make sense, and her giving up on humanity was stupid as hell in and of itself.
You seem to misunderstand my critiques. I’m not saying DCEU Superman never saves anyone, that criticism was always stupid and false. My complaints are that the storytelling, characterization, and overall “vision” were just flat out bad.
Also as an aside, the snyder cut stuff keeps getting bigger and bigger as time passes. You even have notable people and not just fans jumping in now.
Can’t really agree. Maoma was always a Snyder fan so it’s not like this converted him. Some bloggers and niche “nerd culture” people aren’t really that big in the grand scheme of things. Affleck hasn’t said a word and probably is just happy to be gone. Cavill prefers the Whedon cut lol. Gadot hasn’t said anything but she clearly didn’t 100% agree with Snyder on certain WW characterizations given her comments on the walking away bit, but I wouldn’t put her for or against it.

Put it this way: You’re not seeing other directors speak out in favor of it, or it making the news or whatever. This is still a niche thing that pops up now and again.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,233
I mean the ones doing the hashtagging are already 100% on board with Snyder so I don’t expect his JL to disappoint them because they love everything he makes lol.

Seen that pic so many times and it gets so much wrong. I’m going to pick the three worst examples:
1. Saves Batman from himself
No he doesn’t. At all. Batman leaves because he finds a better outlet for his vengeance by proxy, and he kills all the thugs including using a gun to shoot the guy at the end. Batman still murders people after Superman.
2. Inspires Batman to be a better man
Uh he still uses guns in JL. Still is mowing down Parademons with the Batmobile.
3. Shows Diana that not all of humanity is lost
Well he’s not human so that doesn’t really make sense, and her giving up on humanity was stupid as hell in and of itself.
You seem to misunderstand my critiques. I’m not saying DCEU Superman never saves anyone, that criticism was always stupid and false. My complaints are that the storytelling, characterization, and overall “vision” were just flat out bad.

Can’t really agree. Maoma was always a Snyder fan so it’s not like this converted him. Some bloggers and niche “nerd culture” people aren’t really that big in the grand scheme of things. Affleck hasn’t said a word and probably is just happy to be gone. Cavill prefers the Whedon cut lol. Gadot hasn’t said anything but she clearly didn’t 100% agree with Snyder on certain WW characterizations given her comments on the walking away bit, but I wouldn’t put her for or against it.

Put it this way: You’re not seeing other directors speak out in favor of it, or it making the news or whatever. This is still a niche thing that pops up now and again.
It was just trending worldwide on twitter.

And yes Momoa, Fisher,as well as a Rob Liefeld, Fabian Wagner, lots of people that worked on the original film etc.

Do you have a quote of Cavill saying he preferred the Whedon version? The only time I recall him talking about it was saying he didnt think it would make a difference financially and making fun of the moustache stuff.
 

Vordan

Member
Aug 12, 2018
1,145
It was just trending worldwide on twitter.

And yes Momoa, Fisher,as well as a Rob Liefeld, Fabian Wagner, lots of people that worked on the original film etc.

Do you have a quote of Cavill saying he preferred the Whedon version? The only time I recall him talking about it was saying he didnt think it would make a difference financially and making fun of the moustache stuff.
“I’ve always enjoyed the traditional, very classic view on Superman in the comic books,” Cavill says. “I think there’s an enormous complexity to that character. I know when I was working with Joss he and I saw eye-to-eye on some of the aspects of Superman. That paragon of hope. That ideal. That wonderful feeling of, ‘Oh, good, Superman’s here!’ I have also developed a very personal and protective relationship over this character, and it was just lovely to have the opportunity to smile and feel good.”

Stuff like that kinda makes me think there may be some truth to rumors about Cavill not being happy with where Snyder was taking the character. That he and Gadot have been pretty quiet in contrast to Maoma doesn’t mean anything in and of itself, but it makes me wonder.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,233

Stuff like that kinda makes me think there may be some truth to rumors about Cavill not being happy with where Snyder was taking the character. That he and Gadot have been pretty quiet in contrast to Maoma doesn’t mean anything in and of itself, but it makes me wonder.
Eh, think you're reading what you want to in that.

From what rumours I've read was that basically nobody was happy with the Justice League that made it into theaters. As they shouldn't be, it was horrendous.

There was that instance of Zack liking a post about Joss Whedon not working with DC was good news and then Patty liked the story about that on social media, you can read into that. She then insisted on Zack and his wife still producing the WW sequel. Their was tons of chatter about Joss not being well liked on set, but that's of course just rumours. The Patty thing though is something she straight up did.

And Gal has still shown support to Zack on social media.


But I could be reading what I want from it on the same token. Its all just rumours and chatter end of the day. Only thing we can really analyze as truths is actions.
 

IonicSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
916
Sweden
It’s too bad they went with Joss, if they really wanted to reshot everything with Superman they should have had bearded black suit Superman. That would have saved them from that ridiculous CG at least and used the time the Russian family had to instead show Superman getting back on his feet in his fortress. I guess Joss was the only one willing and WB wanted to release and forget JL.
 

Vordan

Member
Aug 12, 2018
1,145
Eh, think you're reading what you want to in that.

From what rumours I've read was that basically nobody was happy with the Justice League that made it into theaters. As they shouldn't be, it was horrendous.

There was that instance of Zack liking a post about Joss Whedon not working with DC was good news and then Patty liked the story about that on social media, you can read into that. She then insisted on Zack and his wife still producing the WW sequel. Their was tons of chatter about Joss not being well liked on set, but that's of course just rumours. The Patty thing though is something she straight up did.

And Gal has still shown support to Zack on social media.


But I could be reading what I want from it on the same token. Its all just rumours and chatter end of the day. Only thing we can really analyze as truths is actions.
Oh I DEFINITELY think there’s ill will between Snyder and Whedon/WB/Johns. How could there not be? Good point about Gadot and Jenkins, my own gut feeling is that while those two might differ from Snyder on some creative choices they both appreciate him for picking/helping them. But I do think Cavill grew more and more disgruntled with Snyder’s choices regarding Superman over time, especially since he was also getting a ton of criticism for his acting being stiff (which isn’t totally fair I suppose given that’s how Snyder/Terrio wanted him to be), and it was derailing his career. Cavill was pretty up beat about JL being a reset for his character, and he wanted MacQuarrie to direct another Superman movie rather than advocating for Snyder. But I could be reading into it like you said.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,233
Oh I DEFINITELY think there’s ill will between Snyder and Whedon/WB/Johns. How could there not be? Good point about Gadot and Jenkins, my own gut feeling is that while those two might differ from Snyder on some creative choices they both appreciate him for picking/helping them. But I do think Cavill grew more and more disgruntled with Snyder’s choices regarding Superman over time, especially since he was also getting a ton of criticism for his acting being stiff (which isn’t totally fair I suppose given that’s how Snyder/Terrio wanted him to be).
Yeah I can agree with the creative decisions. I mean, everyone is going to have their own vision of what they want and Cavill did make it known that he saw Superman differently. And Snyders version IS very stoic and more symbolic, and Cavill seems like a fun guy with lots of charisma and he definitely didnt get to show that side. And then when he does get more of what he wants its marred by bad CGI.

I definitely feel for Henry and hope he gets to have another shot at it with more control. He deserves it.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,233
Also Vordan just remembered the fact that James Wan brought in Snyder to watch his film and give notes (agaisnt Wb's wishes allegedly) and he and Momoa didnt like what Whedon did to the character in reshoots.


I hope one day we get a behind the scenes book about this time period because I think no matter which side of the fence your opinion falls on it would be a fascinating read.


Also thank you for the polite discourse! We may vehemently disagree and have polar opposite view points on the subject but no reason we cant be civil.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,233
Kinda helps when there aren't 20 people giving you dumbass drive by posts and not seeing repercussions from them.
Yeah...

*makes post that goes against the grain of the thread/popular opinion*

*responds to all the snarky posts until you get hit with "thread derailment"*

Or

*ignores the posts so as to not get a thread derailment and leave room for other conversations gets hit with "drive by posting" *

Solution. Stop posting in OT.
 

J_Viper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,456
Seeing as how Jeremy Strong sadly turned down Harvey Dent, I think Matthew MacFayden could be an interesting choice.
 

Pein

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,426
NYC
how insane is it that joker is hitting a billi without china this week?

I know this is gonna sound crazy but they should have Leto joker in a birds of prey trailer, joker and Harley is such a power house of a brand.

is a billion for BOP too much to ask for?
 

Pein

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,426
NYC
Leto tried to have Joker deaded
I mean, if I was him I’d be baffled by the choice to have this other joker when he’s already the joker and his parts in suicide squad were heavily cut out.

I still think he’s a viable joker with a cool look. I mean it’s really up to Warner’s how they move forward with Harley Quinn and joker. Leto and Phoenix are wildly different beasts and I really think Phoenix’s version works better as a stand alone film or verse.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,272
I don't even know how Batman would work in Phoenix's universe considering Bruce is like, 10?

Maybe they can do One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest but with the Joker.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,272
I meant more the age difference between them. Even if we assume Joker 2 is completely contained within its universe, he's supposed to be in his 30s when he becomes the Joker (he looks way older than that in the movie though.) That means he has, what, 15 years to wreck havoc in Gotham before Bruce even becomes Batman? That's a lot of time. Gotham has already started to become a shithole when the movie ends. It's why I think they won't introduce Batman, Pattinson or not, assuming Phoenix even agrees to do a sequel.

I agree it would be cool if Reeves leaves the connection ambiguous. Maybe he can show the Joker already exists in his movie. That would be a nice easter egg.
 

jrush64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,686
I think it depends on what happens with Flash. If WB plays their cards right they can use Flash to explain everything like have Batfleck be in another universe or something or to explain why its a different Batman with Battinson.
 

J_Viper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,456
I’d bet any references or cameo appearances from Leto’s Joker will not make it in the final cut of BoP

WB aren’t going back to that after Joaquin hit a billion
 
Nov 13, 2017
5,224
I just want to see Margot Harley interact with Pattinson Bats. I truly do not care how much they retcon. By the looks of it, I think WW84 is going to do some heavy retconning of Justice League.
 
Nov 13, 2017
5,224
That's what I think also, with how they said that it was not a sequel. Maybe it's WW84 that is going to be the Flashpoint of the DCEU.
I think it won't be a Flashpoint in the sense of time travel shenanigans, but if it establishes Wonder Woman as a well known figure and not "hidden from the public" like Justice League said, then that's all we need.

Wonder Woman didn't feature any shots of Ben Affleck, so it can still be perfectly part of the new cannon too.
 

Ooopsklo

Member
Aug 20, 2019
317
I hope we get are big cinematic universe moment with the justice league theme playing while the whole team charges into battle endgame style. We deserve it damn it