DCEU Era |OT2| Joker's Wild

Pein · Mar 17, 2019

Ichthyosaurus said:
I disagree. He improved many scenes, like giving Superman dialogue. Had Snyder been at the helm he'd have been mute again because reasons.

But this wasn't Ultron, he stepped in at the last minute. Ultron was vastly better than Justice League, and that was a let down.

You're not gonna change my mind, BvS ultimate, watchmen DC and man of steel are far superior to whedons works for me.

I think he set out to do something and failed miserably and everything he added was junk, from what I know is his anyway, like that parademon vs Batman fight in the beginning. Lord that was awful, Snyder the action gawd is lucky to not have watched JL.

Buffy is always cool tho.

Ichthyosaurus · Mar 17, 2019

Pein said:
You're not gonna change my mind, BvS ultimate, watchmen DC and man of steel are far superior to whedons works for me.

I think he set out to do something and failed miserably and everything he added was junk, from what I know is his anyway, like that parademon vs Batman fight in the beginning. Lord that was awful, Snyder the action gawd is lucky to not have watched JL.

Buffy is always cool tho.

The Batman/Parademon fight was goofy. lol

There are several scenes Snyder directed which I liked, like the Wonder Woman terrorist scene and Superman vs Justice League. But I think the latter was helped when Whedon added dialogue for Superman.

Ashhong · Mar 17, 2019

Didn't the WW scene get changed? It was originally supposed to blow wasn't it?

BadAss2961 · Mar 17, 2019

The more you hear about what happened with Justice League, the more it sounds like Joss was just all over it.

I think it was Kevin Smith who said that Joss basically re-did most of the movie, and how even the cast and crew started calling it Josstice League.

There's no way you can look back at the Knightmare sequence in BvS and prefer the bs we got in Justice League.

Crazy drop in quality from film to film.

Though it's not all on Whedon... The suits that caved to pressure and wanted the change in tone are are mostly to blame. Whedon should've never been there.

Ashhong said:
Didn't the WW scene get changed? It was originally supposed to blow wasn't it?

It was changed... Supposedly, Snyder wanted the bomb to go off in the building. I think some of the trailers backed this up. You'll notice that Wonder Woman getting the bomb out looks kinda half-assed too like several rushed reshoots.

Ichthyosaurus · Mar 17, 2019

Ashhong said:
Didn't the WW scene get changed? It was originally supposed to blow wasn't it?

Not that I know of.

BadAss2961 said:
The more you hear about what happened with Justice League, the more it sounds like Joss was just all over it.

I think it was Kevin Smith who said that Joss basically re-did most of the movie, and how even the cast and crew started calling it Josstice League.

There's no way you can look back at the Knightmare sequence in BvS and prefer the bs we got in Justice League.

Crazy drop in quality from film to film.

Though it's not all on Whedon... The suits that caved to pressure and wanted the change in tone are are mostly to blame. Whedon should've never been there.

Great sequence, but would have been better off as an Elseworlds Batman movie.

They had to get someone to direct the movie, and he was there as a consultant. If it wasn't Joss we'd be here with someone else because the movie was half made before Snyder left.

Lirion · Mar 17, 2019

Whedon could have done it better. Instead of having Supes revived by a mother box he could have been taken by his ship and put in the black suit. Then a depowered bearded non-cgi Superman would help beat Steppenwolf.

There was no need for the Russian family to be in the movie at all, could have used that screen time to show Superman being revived in his fortress and whatever the other heroes were doing.

ody · Mar 17, 2019

Ross62 said:
I'm into it

Doesn't look like it would go well with Armie

I call fake

BadAss2961 · Mar 17, 2019

Ichthyosaurus said:
Great sequence, but would have been better off as an Elseworlds Batman movie.

They had to get someone to direct the movie, and he was there as a consultant. If it wasn't Joss we'd be here with someone else because the movie was half made before Snyder left.

They didn't have to get someone else to do the movie though. It's pretty much all out there now that Snyder was kicked off, and they brought in the Avengers guy to 'fix' the movie.

Don't even wanna go there anymore though. What's done is done.

Wingfan19 · Mar 17, 2019

Ichthyosaurus said:
Not that I know of.

Yeah, it blew up

Here's the part in the trailer, it's time stamped

Pein · Mar 17, 2019

Wingfan19 said:
Yeah, it blew up

Here's the part in the trailer, it's time stamped

What a sick trailer.

Wingfan19 · Mar 17, 2019

Pein said:
What a sick trailer.

I'm still curious if the red skies/tint was always something Zack wanted or was done by Joss and WB? Cause you can see a mix of both the blue and red in that Comic Con trailer. They did those re-shoots in June and some of the reshot footage is in there as well.

Ichthyosaurus · Mar 17, 2019

Wingfan19 said:
Yeah, it blew up

Here's the part in the trailer, it's time stamped

Ha. You're right. Thanks for showing me that.

VanWinkle · Mar 17, 2019

I don't think I mentioned my thoughts on Aquaman. Watched it twice over the last week or so. First time, I liked it but not as much as I hoped I would. I would have given it a 6.5 or 7. Second time, I watched it with some of my family over at my mom's and dad's house and for some reason I ended up loving it. I enjoyed the visual spectacle of it. It had some really epic moments in it and it was very fun and action-heavy. I would give it an 7.5 or an 8 now, with the first half being 6-7 (had a lot of mixed moments, some lower than six and some higher than 7), and the second half a 9 or 9.5.

My main issues were some of the writing was super blah, most of the humor didn't land for me (particularly the desert scene all together), and I didn't care for the non-orchestral music (though luckily 90% of it was orchestral).

Man, everything from the trench onward was practically perfect, though. I adored it. Felt like I was watching an epic fantasy movie.

Also, I can now finally say that the octopus playing the drums was the most overblown thing possibly ever. Don't know why so many people brought that up.

ody · Mar 17, 2019

heh

BlackGoku03 · Mar 17, 2019

ody said:
heh

Interesting.

I think it could work if the directors insert their humor and themes into Miller's script.

Ocarina_117 · Mar 17, 2019

Wingfan19 said:
Yeah, it blew up

Here's the part in the trailer, it's time stamped

Wow, they should totally make a whole movie for this trailer.

Firemind · Mar 17, 2019

It kind of warms my heart that Ezra Miller, Jason Momoa and Ray Fisher are overall supportive of Snyder's vision. Would have liked if Gal Gadot spoke out as well but oh well. As for Henry Cavill, it's understandable he isn't a fan of Snyder. At least he wasn't responsible for replacing his mustache with bad CG lol

Penguin · Mar 17, 2019

Another way to kill some time if interested, the Adventures of Captain Marvel serials are on Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mweCJeBk314&list=PLyr0bSOkRSWdXW_x-gcaLvEOfgg1wY00i

Rvaan · Mar 17, 2019

Wasn't one of the rumors that Reeves was using Long Halloween as a template for the movie? That color scheme is halloweenish...

ReiGun · Mar 17, 2019

Ashhong said:
These producers need to stop talking. I guarantee they are just using the wrong words and causing misunderstandings.

To be fair, though, it's easy to cause misunderstandings when the people you're speaking to are being intentionally obtuse and are looking for reasons to complain and imply they know more about making movies than the people who actually make movies.

Neither the Wonder Woman nor Suicide Squad situations are as dire or confusing as people are making them out to be.

bigstef71 · Mar 17, 2019

Firemind said:
It kind of warms my heart that Ezra Miller, Jason Momoa and Ray Fisher are overall supportive of Snyder's vision. Would have liked if Gal Gadot spoke out as well but oh well. As for Henry Cavill, it's understandable he isn't a fan of Snyder. At least he wasn't responsible for replacing his mustache with bad CG lol

Why do you think Henry isn't a fan of Zack?

Lirion · Mar 17, 2019

ReiGun said:
To be fair, though, it's easy to cause misunderstandings when the people you're speaking to are being intentionally obtuse and are looking for reasons to complain and imply they know more about making movies than the people who actually make movie.

Neither the Wonder Woman nor Suicide Squad situations are as dire or confusing as people are making them out to be.

It's like they want the SS thing to be a bigger thing than it is just to complain. Like I said in the other thread. SS1 have as much impact in the DCEU as the Ed Norton Hulk movie had in the MCU.

Also the next Wonder Woman takes place like what, 50 years after WW1? Then yeah I can understand them not seeing it as a sequel to the first movie.

Firemind · Mar 17, 2019

bigstef71 said:
Why do you think Henry isn't a fan of Zack?

It isn't exactly a secret that Henry wasn't enamored of the direction Zack took with Superman.

Just a quick search:

I feel like now the right mistakes have been made and they haven't been pandered [to], and we can start telling the stories in the way they need to be told.

It is even better to come back from a mistake or stylistic error into the correct vein because it will make it seem that much stronger. Wonder Woman was the first step in the right direction.

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a841944/henry-cavill-criticises-dceu-it-hasnt-worked/

Ashhong · Mar 17, 2019

ReiGun said:
To be fair, though, it's easy to cause misunderstandings when the people you're speaking to are being intentionally obtuse and are looking for reasons to complain and imply they know more about making movies than the people who actually make movies.

Neither the Wonder Woman nor Suicide Squad situations are as dire or confusing as people are making them out to be.

Yea, agreed.

Firemind said:
It isn't exactly a secret that Henry wasn't enamored of the direction Zack took with Superman.

Just a quick search:

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a841944/henry-cavill-criticises-dceu-it-hasnt-worked/

I mean, he's not wrong. Especially with regards to the characterization of Superman. It wasn't working, which we've all gone over enough times in this thread.

Firemind · Mar 17, 2019

We don't know that as his character arc didn't really resolve fittingly in JL.

Ashhong · Mar 17, 2019

Firemind said:
We don't know that as his character arc didn't really resolve fittingly in JL.

Even if the ending of JL finished his arc, taking 3 movies to do a single arc is just not right. I love Snyder as much as anybody else in here, but I can admit that was just not a smart choice. Mistakes were definitely made somewhere along the line.

Pein · Mar 17, 2019

yeah a big mistake was doomsday killing Superman. BvS should not have ended with a funeral, it should've ended with the trinity being better prepared for a invasion. Like a full of hope ending.

BadAss2961 · Mar 17, 2019

Ashhong said:
Even if the ending of JL finished his arc, taking 3 movies to do a single arc is just not right. I love Snyder as much as anybody else in here, but I can admit that was just not a smart choice. Mistakes were definitely made somewhere along the line.

In a regular standalone, sure. But these universe movies are kinda like TV series. Things can be written for the long haul once the plan is a series of movies instead of one.

Things changed as it went along, but I think Snyder always had a trilogy arc in mind for Superman.

Ichthyosaurus · Mar 17, 2019

BadAss2961 said:
In a regular standalone, sure. But these universe movies are kinda like TV series. Things can be written for the long haul once the plan is a series of movies instead of one.

Things changed as it went along, but I think Snyder always had a trilogy arc in mind for Superman.

It's so weird his plan was to kill Superman in his second appearance, the audience just got to know him in Man of Steel.

GringoSuave89 · Mar 17, 2019

BadAss2961 said:
In a regular standalone, sure. But these universe movies are kinda like TV series. Things can be written for the long haul once the plan is a series of movies instead of one.

Sure but if people aren't vibing with your take, a long haul ain't gonna fix it

Pein · Mar 17, 2019

GringoSuave89 said:
Sure but if people aren't vibing with your take, a long haul ain't gonna fix it

Disagree, fast and the furious became a mega franchise only until the fifth one 10 years in.

J_Viper · Mar 17, 2019

Think I'm gonna skip ahead to YJ: Outsiders instead of trying to catch up with the original run. I know these are all kids cartoons, but something about the voice work and writing is a bit too much up that alley for my tastes. Outsiders seemed much more mature in tone and production from the first episode alone.

And I might have already said this but Doom Patrol is INCREDIBLE. You guys are really missing out if you haven't checked it out yet.

GringoSuave89 · Mar 17, 2019

Pein said:
Disagree, fast and the furious became a mega franchise only until the fifth one 10 years in.

Outside of maybe Tokyo Drift, were any of them out and out treated with distain? Cause sure MoS was a bit mixed but generally liked, and BvS lost most of the viewers. It's not so much about being a megahit so much as it is about not being panned.

Pein · Mar 18, 2019

GringoSuave89 said:
Outside of maybe Tokyo Drift, were any of them out and out treated with distain? Cause sure MoS was a bit mixed but generally liked, and BvS lost most of the viewers. It's not so much about being a megahit so much as it is about not being panned.

A lot of people hated 2 and 3. I loved them all and Tokyo drift is my fave in the series but ya know people wanted vin back. So Vin and Paul reunited for the fourth and I thought it was the weakest in the series.

Then core fan base people really did not like 5 where racing became non existent and it vacate an action franchise.

Basically you're gonna piss off somebody trying to find your footing and WB are way to reactionary. BvS and JL shouldn't have been shot so closely and Snyder wanted a MOS 2 but didn't get it. Suicide squad got another dose of executive meddling.

I really hate how they're acting like they believe in the film makers and to give them time, when Snyder and Ayer to a lesser extent got fucking boned and used as scape goats.

Boxy Brown · Mar 18, 2019

J_Viper said:
Think I'm gonna skip ahead to YJ: Outsiders instead of trying to catch up with the original run. I know these are all kids cartoons, but something about the voice work and writing is a bit too much up that alley for my tastes. Outsiders seemed much more mature in tone and production from the first episode alone.

And I might have already said this but Doom Patrol is INCREDIBLE. You guys are really missing out if you haven't checked it out yet.

Skipping to a 3rd season that requires the meticulous build up and payoffs of the previous storylines of the show is a.... choice?

GringoSuave89 · Mar 18, 2019

Pein said:
A lot of people hated 2 and 3. I loved them all and Tokyo drift is my fave in the series but ya know people wanted vin back and him and Paul reunited for the fourth and I thought it was the weakest in the series.

Than core fan base people really did not like 5 where racing became non existent and it vacate an action franchise.

Basically you're gonna piss off somebody trying to find your footing and WB are way to reactionary. BvS and JL shouldn't have been shot so closely and Snyder wanted a MOS 2 but didn't get it. Suicide squad got another dose of executive meddling.

I really hate how they're acting like they believe in the film makers and to give them time, when Snyder and Ayer to a lesser extent got fucking boned and used as scape goats.

Granted, that's fair the F&F franchise did pivot in that regard, and WB was certainly reactionary. I also wonder if Snyder had any desire to make his own course corrections in regards to the backlash. Hard to tell when we only got one other movie, and one that he had taken away from him.

Pein · Mar 18, 2019

Ross62 said:
Skipping to a 3rd season that requires the meticulous build up and payoffs of the previous storylines of the show is a.... choice?

It's a bad choice, YJ gets better and better in season 1 and season 2 is great as well. The only reason 3 is around is because of how good the first couple of seasons are and the fan base was vocal about it.

Ichthyosaurus · Mar 18, 2019

Pein said:
Basically you're gonna piss off somebody trying to find your footing and WB are way to reactionary. BvS and JL shouldn't have been shot so closely and Snyder wanted a MOS 2 but didn't get it. Suicide squad got another dose of executive meddling.

This, ironically, worked in Snyder's favour. After the backlash with B vs S they couldn't cancel Snyder's next project because he was already shooting Justice League.

I really hate how they're acting like they believe in the film makers and to give them time, when Snyder and Ayer to a lesser extent got fucking boned and used as scape goats.

The WB brass definitely deserve a lot of blame for the bullshit about how the DCEU ended up, but Snyder (despite his problems) was one of their stars and giving good treatment (more than he deserved) and got what the majority of that he wanted. They hung Ayer out to dry completely.

Firemind · Mar 18, 2019

I don't really agree with that analysis. WB wanted to fit more screenings in a day, which ultimately hurt Clark's screentime in BvS. The Lois subplot didn't make any sense in the theatrical cut either and basically went nowhere. Not that the UC would have drastically changed people's opinions, but at least there was a possibility Superman would have been received better. I think the studio meddling would still have happened because Snyder killed Superman (he shouldn't), but WB gave Snyder good treatment? Nah. WB is a business first and foremost. They don't care about their creative people. Their announcement explaining why Snyder stepped down as director and that he would work together with Whedon was bullshit too. Snyder hasn't been involved in the creative process whatsoever. It's just PR speak to hide that Snyder has been replaced.

Ichthyosaurus · Mar 18, 2019

Firemind said:
I don't really agree with that analysis. WB wanted to fit more screenings in a day, which ultimately hurt Clark's screentime in BvS. The Lois subplot didn't make any sense in the theatrical cut either and basically went nowhere. Not that the UC would have drastically changed people's opinions, but at least there was a possibility Superman would have been received better. I think the studio meddling would still have happened because Snyder killed Superman (he shouldn't), but WB gave Snyder good treatment? Nah. WB is a business first and foremost. They don't care about their creative people. Their announcement explaining why Snyder stepped down as director and that he would work together with Whedon was bullshit too. Snyder hasn't been involved in the creative process whatsoever. It's just PR speak to hide that Snyder has been replaced.

From that analysis I can't blame the WB brass too much, from a business perspective and the fact they let him do that regardless shows how much pull he had there. Ayer wasn't getting that. This was Snyder's vision, he'd rather pepper the film with nonsense which might go nowhere and confuse audiences (Flash, Knight Mare sequence, among other things) and draw out scenes in slow motion needlessly (like the Wayne murders) then make a compact film which covered all the key areas, like establishing Superman as someone relatable to audiences - when he's in the title. What he made went against traditional cinema length, which in itself isn't bad but with big budget movies based on iconic comic book franchises cuts will be made and films will be trimmed mercilessly so make the point you want and get out as much as you can because this isn't a tv show.

Penguin · Mar 18, 2019

I will never get how we go back to the same discussions... when a new movie out in a few weeks that many will see this weekend.

Aquaman on home release.

Deleted member 32822 · Mar 18, 2019

Penguin said:
I will never get how we go back to the same discussions... when a new movie out in a few weeks that many will see this weekend.

Aquaman on home release.

Seriously. I'm over it. Like, truly over it and any discussion around it.

Now back to things that actually matter: Shazam on Saturday!!!

Kenzodielocke · Mar 18, 2019

Is that Shazam! clip up somewhere in good quality?

bohex1984 · Mar 18, 2019

Vinimaw · Mar 18, 2019

Penguin said:
I will never get how we go back to the same discussions... when a new movie out in a few weeks that many will see this weekend.

Aquaman on home release.

I'm over it too, but I would a love a DC Universe Zack Snyder Director's Cut on all the movies, I love MoS and BvS so much.

Though, i'm happy with the mood and tone of Aquaman and Shazam.

MHWilliams · Mar 18, 2019

Tsujihara is out.

Future Foundation · Mar 18, 2019

MHWilliams said:
Tsujihara is out.

This wasn't ending any other way. There was no way he was gonna stay on.

Kenzodielocke · Mar 18, 2019

Good news. Fuck him for being a scumbag.

Rvaan · Mar 18, 2019

Him being out was the only logical end here.

Praetorpwj · Mar 18, 2019

Kenzodielocke said:
Good news. Fuck him for being a scumbag.

A solid gold twat.

DCEU Era |OT2| Joker's Wild

Erza won

Yes

Oh hell yes

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