I just think he didn't want to be tied to a franchise, but if he changes his mind I'd like him as green lantern lol.
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DCEU Era |OT2| Joker's Wild
- Thread starter ody
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Batman: Year One. Animated adaption of Frank Miller's graphic novel of Batman's origins. It's pretty good imo, some of the voice acting is just a bit stiff.
Fun fact, this is the story that Nolan took influences from for Begins!
18 years ago we almost had a "Batman : year one" by Aronofsky... in the 70's, with a black Alfred, a cheating Gordon, and already a tendency to cram different comics panels into one mess.
The review of the first draft of the script was crazy : http://legacy.aintitcool.com/node/9819
The review of the first draft of the script was crazy : http://legacy.aintitcool.com/node/9819
Yes I remember reading that legendary thread at the time.
After Batman and Robin it didn't even seem so bad we were so desperate!
Good to hear. It's the project I'm most looking forward to next year.
Man Batman Begins is so damn good. I can't fault WB at all for hoping to continue this style of "real" CBM with the original Snyderverse. Everything feels so much more epic, more stakes, compared to post-Snyder and anything in the MCU, including Endgame. The drama was on another level here compared to others. It's a real shame they couldn't make it work. If only they were able to use BB as the launch of a universe. I can only imagine...
Hopefully Black Mask will be a better villain than the MCU's Red Skull.
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Hopefully they figure out how to market their films again with Birds of prey.
It's not just DC. Its WB as a whole. Whatever changes they made are not working. At all.
Go back to marketing films like you did BVS and SS. Just don't spoil the whole film.
It's not just DC. Its WB as a whole. Whatever changes they made are not working. At all.
Go back to marketing films like you did BVS and SS. Just don't spoil the whole film.
Skwad and WW were well marketed
With BvS, it was obvious Snyder delivered a film they had no idea what the fuck to do with
JL was...well...
All the Aquaman trailers were rough, but China don't care
And Shazam was a difficult idea to properly market, unfortunately. The only thing that could have helped was maybe an actor for Billy that wasn't a dead fish, especially compared to how lively the rest of the cast was
With BvS, it was obvious Snyder delivered a film they had no idea what the fuck to do with
JL was...well...
All the Aquaman trailers were rough, but China don't care
And Shazam was a difficult idea to properly market, unfortunately. The only thing that could have helped was maybe an actor for Billy that wasn't a dead fish, especially compared to how lively the rest of the cast was
That first BVS trailer was fantastic and had people on board. It was just the final trailer that went too far.
Aquaman trailers were good. It pretty much sold the movie it was. The online hate from some vocal people wasnt reflective of the real world.
I know I've said it before but Shazam not leaning into the diverse family aspect was a huge failure of marketing. They should have been front and center.
Justice league first and second trailers looked like two different films. Because it was.
The first BvS trailer was excellent but I think it already began to polarise people.
Anecdotally I had several DC film fans who were turned off by the trailers and had to be practically dragged to the cinema where they duly had a miserable time.
I enjoyed it the most although I was really shocked at Batman genuinely trying to kill Superman having spent the last few months maintaining that all he REALLY wanted to do was clip Supes wings and put an end to the hero worshipping. I cannot understate how much I believe that film severely damaged those characters franchises.
I couldn't get any of them to see JL subsequently although they did see and enjoy WW and Aquaman.
The problem with the whole disconnected DCEU mess is that every project now has to stand or fall on its own virtues. They can't rely on the cross fertilisation that Marvel uses to break in new characters. Consequently the marketing has to be spot on in a world where Disney is sucking up everyone's milkshake. I honestly don't believe that ANY DC project including WW and Aquaman can be automatically relied on to be a hit.
End of the day it was a Zack Snyder film and even though I personally like it, he had always been an at best polarizing film maker who seems to illicit strong reactions both positive and negative.
WB were either stupid as fuck or just had huge balls to allow that film to happen.
I dont think they damaged them much personally. I think the next batman film will be huge if its good. And I think people over state how well liked superman is as a character in the first place nowadays. Superman returns got good reviews and bombed. Man Of Steel was polarizing but it did fairly well and I felt like for every superman fan that hated it there was a person with little interest in the character that liked it. Man of steel was a superman film for people that didn't really like superman in my opinion. And I think that was on purpose.
Superman might be well known and recognizable to everyone in the world but I just dont think he has resonated with people as a character the way spider man and batman do.
I think they could make a film with superman that superman comic fans rave about it that nails the character they want and it just wont be that popular because a lot of people view the character as lame and corny.
I don't know I could be wrong but that's just my opinion.
Regardless it feels like the only thing DC as a whole wants to do with superman is kill him repeatedly in every medium.
Batman will recover. He always does and WB will never stop trying even if Reeves fucks up. I think that he has been made less likeable as a result of BvS and for that reason I believe the franchise has been damaged.
Superman on the other hand will never be allowed to be interesting again. If he returns at all it will be as the big blue boyscout, grinning, fighting robots and rescuing adventurous cats.
Meh, he's certainly not as popular as Batman is these days, but Aquaman sure as hell wasn't a popular character, yet he made a billion. MCU Captain America is closer to the comic book Superman and plenty of people like Cap. No one likes DCEU Superman because he's Snyder's incompetently done "deconstruction" of the character. If you ditch the poorly done attempts at "depth" directors do i.e. the shitty Jesus references and just did a straight up action movie where Superman fights Brainiac for Metropolis or Mongul on Warworld, I think plenty of people would go see it.
If you think Zack Snyder's take was "interesting" then I'll happily take "boring", because Snyder's Superman was a boring wreck of a character. Mopey, whiney, "Muh Lois", going evil at the drop of a hat, this was absolutely a Superman for people who don't like Superman and just want Batman to beat him up. Sprinkling Jesus allusions and showing sad boy Superman moping does not a deep character make. Snyder never understood the character and I'm thankful he's gone and his influence can't poison the character anymore.
Characters like captain America, captain marvel and aquaman were much more blank slates with audiences than superman.
Case in point, nobody gives a shit that this aquaman isnt like the comics at all or some old aquaman movies they love.
Superman has a shit ton of baggage and expectations.
I wonder if trying to have Batman, who tends to work best as a street level character, similar in tone to characters like Superman/Green Lantern/Wonder Woman makes sense. In comics they'll usually have a very different tone for street level books than for grandiose books. That means different writers, a different art style, much more muted colors for the street-level books, etc...
People were hyped as hell for MoS though. That third trailer got tons of people excited. It's just that Snyder's love of destruction porn and hatred for colors ended up turning people away. Then he doubled down on all the things people hated with MoS in BvS, and from what he's revealed about his JL plans he was only going to get more and more edgy. A Superman movie that isn't trying to appeal to edgelords in trench coats with katanas would probably do rather well, someone like Abrams would totally get people interested in Superman.
Besides Brainiac and Mongul are new villains who haven't been seen before, and that newness would get people interested after nothing but Lex and Zod. It's the same thing with Mysterio in Far from Home, new villain gets people interested.
That's a good point. Probably doesn't make sense to ground them too much, but there's a good middle ground and they were clearly chasing that with MOS. I still maintain that MOS was a few scenes/lines of dialogue away from being an amazing Superman movie. The groundwork is there, just needed some tweaking.
Yes, I agree. I think MOS is close to being great. It doesn't quite make it for me, but there's a lot in there that I like.
Saying those film are aimed at people that are an edge lord in a trenchcoat to is pretty lame.
Plenty of people loved at least MOS and are not those things. Including myself.
And a superman film not aimed at that came out, it was called superman returns and it bombed and had everything going for it.
I didn't think Snyder was successful in his effort to update and make Superman more relevant and I agree that he came off as a whiner. There are ways and means but they have to be handled delicately. One thing in particular the world can hate on Supes but he should never let it beat him down. He should always be a shining symbol in dreadful adversity which was surely the point of 'leading them into the light'.
My comment referred to WB never attempting again to make him a complex character.
I can excuse all of Supes whining in MOS because again, that was an origin movie and he was still finding himself. That's awesome to me.
However to continue it in BvS and double down the way he did..was a bit too much. We've had this discussion before, Snyder's plan was to take 3+ movies to complete Supe's arc into the man we all know. The problem is nobody wanted to wait for that.
However to continue it in BvS and double down the way he did..was a bit too much. We've had this discussion before, Snyder's plan was to take 3+ movies to complete Supe's arc into the man we all know. The problem is nobody wanted to wait for that.
Nah I think Wonder Woman and Aquaman will be fine. Audiences enjoyed those movies, know what to expect, and WB is going to all in on marketing them. I don't know what kind of competition it's up against, but I would be shocked if Wonder Woman 1984 doesn't join Aquaman in the billion dollar club.
Where they're going to struggle is introducing new characters. Current film audiences are very gun shy about going out to see "new" things (new in quotes because I think even familiar franchises can have an uphill battle [see Godzilla and Detective Pikachu]). It's why we get so many remakes and reboots and whatnot; audiences are simply not spending their money on things they don't already trust, especially in the blockbuster game.
So we when look at something like Birds of Prey, WB has to put Harley in it because she was the only part of Suicide Squad everyone liked even if they disliked the movie and audiences need that kind of hook. Shazam didn't have that and audiences mainly tuned out cause they didn't know what to expect despite most people who actually saw the movie raving about it, and they don't trust the DC brand as a whole right now. Could a better marketing campaign have helped? Sure, they could have spoiled some shit and leaned harder into the drama. However, the movie still would have run into some issues because it's different from what people expect from a superhero movie these days. For example, they couldn't put a big 3rd act clusterfuck world-ending set piece in the trailer because.......there wasn't one. lol
I feel like I'm all over the place, but my main point is this: while I love that we're getting rumors of WB digging deeper into the DC vault for characters, I think it's going to be an uphill battle. They've got three surefire hits in the chamber (Wondy, Aqua, and Bats) assuming quality holds up, but they're going to have to be super careful with everyone else. Birds of Prey sounds promising. Hopefully they nail the marketing, especially if they go through with the R rating.
I saw Superman Returns again recently and it does have heart and charm but it also has a lot of problems. Nonsensical premise, fairly tepid action and plot that writes itself into a corner.
Still waiting for the definitive Lois.
I am sure that all these projects will do ok. None are going to crash and burn. As you say they have some popular characters but these 'hooks' are relatively few and can't easy be used to introduce new characters. Aquaman is his own universe, Batman may be entirely standalone etc.
Just think WB has made this unnecessarily hard for themselves.
Oh definitely. They're in a high risk/high reward situation. If a movie comes out and finds its audience, it'll basically sleepwalk to big box office and audience reception. Wonder Woman and Aquaman are proof.
But every movie has to do that on its own, and if it doesn't, it fails and the "DC is a mess" crowd gets riled up again and makes it even harder for the next movie.
Do they even have a tangible effect on box offices? Everyone was saying WW and Aquaman were going to flop but they still did well. The only ones that failed were Snyder's honestly and that had more to do with critical and audience reception than any naysayers on the Internet.
Once the movie is out, not really. Maybe opening weekend - Aquaman opened pretty normal then blew the hell up, if I recall - but not in the long term. However, I do think they have an effect on the lead up and gathering audience interest. The online hype cycle is a part of marketing and that's where the naysayers do have some power. Wonder Woman and Aquaman both overcame it by just being good and having characters audiences at least knew. That said, with Aquaman and Shazam we saw WB literally tailor the movies' entire marketing campaigns around shutting up internet whiners. Worked out for Aquaman; not so much for Shazam.
Sure, the easy thing to say is, "WB shouldn't worry about those guys." However, they have to because those types are part of the marketing plan. They're the ones sharing the trailers and making memes and doing reaction videos and whatever else. So it is worrysome that WB is stuck trying to placate a segment of the audience that, at least right now, isn't very interested in what they're selling and would rather complain than admit that and move on. That's going to be even more concerning when they try to introduce lesser known characters because they're going to be relying on the internet types to do some of the heavy lifting in getting the general audience excited for the character.
We'll see how it shakes out when BoP drops its first trailer.
Speaking on this point as well, Annabelle Comes Home came in soft this weekend too. Hard to tell if that's a marketing problem, a film problem, or apart of this summer being soft for a lot of films.
Add to this the segment of the audience who spam every WB online communication with #releasethesnydercut shitposting, and yeah, they have a small problem with their online marketing.
Really liked her in MI: Fallout and she looks badass in Hobbs and Shaw
Her star is definitely rising for sure, rumors might've been fake but wasn't she courted for Black Canary in BoP too?
Yeah, I kinda would've loved to see her as BC and have Jurnee be Selina, but oh well.
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