Dead or Alive 6 |OT| Still a Fighter

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
2,959
Yeah we should have pushed against the use of meter in this game. Now that they think everything is peachy they can just do whatever with it. I bet before the end of this year there will be another use for it too. How bothersome.

Stop putting meter in 3D fighters, dammit!
 

Komarkaze

Member
Oct 27, 2017
292
The update fixed the photo mode aperture settings so it works again. It didn’t seem to fix my issue with my ranked plays/wins counting towards achievements though.

The sidestep nerf is annoying. At least you can now easily see if you have a full meter, as the bar turns purple when completely filled.
 

DrDogg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,510
I bet normal counters will never use meter. The one thing that should actually cost meter.

Oh well, I was pretty much done with the game a month ago anyway. I'd be happy to fix it for them (would take me a day, tops), but that's not going to happen. Manny doesn't even want to listen when it comes to issues.
 
1.05 patchnotes
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Eolz

Eolz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,262
FR

- Added a feature to LOBBY MATCHES that allows for multiple simultaneous matches to be carried out in one room.
- Added the option to set custom names to LOBBY MATCH rooms.
- Added text chat option to the lobby screen in LOBBY MATCHES.
- Added the option to display Skill Info in the SPECTATOR mode and during replays.
- Added the costumes "Pirates of the 7 Seas Costumes Vol.2".
- Added new entry animations for Helena, Brad Wong, and Eliot. Added new victory animations for Jann Lee, Kokoro, and Leifang.
- Adjusted game balance.
- Corrected various bugs and issues.
Full pdf for balance changes to find stuff like...
- Side Attacks: Now require 25% of the Break Gauge to use. Additionally, Break Gauge will not be re-filled when the attack lands or is guarded.
- Increased the timing during which throws and offensive holds performed against side attacks will be counted as counters up to the moment of hit detection.
- Hayabusa throws nerfed
- Adjusted the camera distance when 2 characters stand at the maximum distance away from each other.
 

skillzilla81

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,089
Yeah we should have pushed against the use of meter in this game. Now that they think everything is peachy they can just do whatever with it. I bet before the end of this year there will be another use for it too. How bothersome.

Stop putting meter in 3D fighters, dammit!
Meter is fine. Shoving a sidestep in the game without balancing movesets around it is shitty. It was obviously just a band-aid they put in the game and it just doesn't work well.

This game is disappointing on so many levels.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,826
I bet normal counters will never use meter. The one thing that should actually cost meter.

Oh well, I was pretty much done with the game a month ago anyway. I'd be happy to fix it for them (would take me a day, tops), but that's not going to happen. Manny doesn't even want to listen when it comes to issues.
based on your first sentence, fuck no to your second
Meter is fine. Shoving a sidestep in the game without balancing movesets around it is shitty. It was obviously just a band-aid they put in the game and it just doesn't work well.

This game is disappointing on so many levels.
Yea break blows and holds I've found were great implementations of meter, and blow cancelling is an amazingly designed to work with the risk reward system DOA has always had in place with holds. It also made supers far more interesting than any other 3D fighter thats implemented them.

The more ive played the game the more I've gotten used to SSA. I think more tracking moves shouldve been implemented, but my buddy told me "Think of SSA as a DP" and ever since then its been working better for me.

I don't like this change as its band-aiding it by abusing the meter that imo has been designed quite well. We now lose a lot of what I liked about its implementation.

On the other hand, I play NiCO, and less SSA against me is a huge buff.
 

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
2,959
Yea break blows and holds I've found were great implementations of meter, and blow cancelling is an amazingly designed to work with the risk reward system DOA has always had in place with holds. It also made supers far more interesting than any other 3D fighter thats implemented them.

The more ive played the game the more I've gotten used to SSA. I think more tracking moves shouldve been implemented, but my buddy told me "Think of SSA as a DP" and ever since then its been working better for me.

I don't like this change as its band-aiding it by abusing the meter that imo has been designed quite well. We now lose a lot of what I liked about its implementation.

On the other hand, I play NiCO, and less SSA against me is a huge buff.
I am more neutral over these systems than I am outright negative, but I think they should have recontextualized moves to have different properties instead. Close hits and half hits are kinda genius, I would have loved more exploration of mechanics like that.

S being tied to sidesteps was brilliant though, absolutely.
 

DyByHands

Member
Jul 16, 2018
486
Any confirmation on getting another $100k after the update? Ive read online both yes and no... I may boot it up if this is the case.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
Oct 25, 2017
864
How they chunked up meter to address step attacks seems like they put some thought in it, but they can do a better way to address them than that.
Roll Call for tommrow's lobby

I am hosting a free lobby for a few hours today and tomorrow like every other Saturday we have lobbies for everybody in here to play. We start around 3-4 est and we go as long as people are willing to play, if we get 3-4 people it's a private lobby, less it's semi open.
Strem at: https://www.twitch.tv/shinmaruku
 

DrDogg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,510
Also (double post as it doesn't deserve being in the threadmark):


1 day to implement and test too? :p
I don't really need to test much. The game is simply not balanced around any of the new mechanics. I've already been through most character's move lists. I know what needs to be added and adjusted.

It's been my experience that Japanese DOA players have a very different outlook on the game compared to players in the US (and EU). Methinks Shimbori, or whoever the battle director is, has been listening to the same JP players that I've encountered in the past (the ones that work for Team Ninja) and balancing based on that. Which is basically the worst thing they can do since they don't understand the risk/reward system of the game, especially when new mechanics are added to it.

For example, I would buff SSA so you can at least have the DOA5 (Vanilla) options back with the same evasiveness of the DOA6 step and none of this "throw until the 27th frame" nonsense. I would then make sure every character had at least one mid tracking attack that was either safe (leading to a short stun on CH), unsafe but has a string follow-up (leading to a moderate stun on CH), or is unsafe with no follow-up (launches or deep stun on CH). In addition, I would look at longer strings and see where they may need a tracking option somewhere in the middle of the string so they aren't completely useless in the face of the new SS.

At that point the only people who can complain about SSA are the ones who don't know how to play their own characters. You shouldn't be able to just spam attack strings and free cancels with minimal consequences. People complained about the SSA because they didn't bother to learn their character's tracking moves. They just wanted to play DOA5 with new supers and bound moves.

based on your first sentence, fuck no to your second

Yea break blows and holds I've found were great implementations of meter, and blow cancelling is an amazingly designed to work with the risk reward system DOA has always had in place with holds. It also made supers far more interesting than any other 3D fighter thats implemented them.

The more ive played the game the more I've gotten used to SSA. I think more tracking moves shouldve been implemented, but my buddy told me "Think of SSA as a DP" and ever since then its been working better for me.

I don't like this change as its band-aiding it by abusing the meter that imo has been designed quite well. We now lose a lot of what I liked about its implementation.

On the other hand, I play NiCO, and less SSA against me is a huge buff.
SSA is not a DP at all. We'll ignore DPs as anti-air attacks and assume your friend means it as an interrupt. That means you're guessing when to use a SSA, in which case you're using it wrong. There are some situations in which I'll make a read and use a SSA, but 90% of the time I'm reacting to a linear string. There's no guess involved other than guessing the opponent won't free cancel to punish a potential step, which isn't even an option for some strings.

When it comes to holds, I would not simply lock them behind meter and call it a day. They're far too integrated into how DOA plays to make such a drastic change without changing any other DOA systems. The biggest issue with holds are the high damage and long active window. Reduce the damage and lower the window from 18 frames (WTF?!) down to somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 frames and that fixes a lot of problems. I'd also add a Tekken-style throw break for any non-punishment throws so you can actually play defense without having to risk anything. Unbreakable throws are far too strong in DOA as they are the main reason you can't play defense without having guess or take some silly risk.

All that said, ideally holds would do Break Hold damage (or no damage) when used during a stun, or the damage would be based on the attack you hold. It doesn't make any sense that I can toss out a jab that does 7 points of damage, and you can hi-counter it for 60 points of damage (and in some cases much more).

In addition to the changes I mentioned in my above reply, I would give all holds a standing animation (no more ducking high attacks with low holds), and limit the number of times you can hold during a stun (unless the change goes through so they do little to no damage). Maybe have something like a SF Guard Gauge where the more times you hold during a stun the lower that gauge gets, and it slowly builds back up.
 
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Eolz

Eolz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,262
FR
For EMEA players:

DrDogg I was not saying or implying that your ideas are bad or wouldn't work. Just saying, as a developer, that you can't do and release something in a day, as simple as it can be. I know that you're exaggerating a bit to make a point, but it's never that simple, and I'm just a bit tired of this kind of stuff. Everything must be tested after implementation anyway, especially since the game is already out and you must pass certification and not add even more bugs.
As said above, I agree that they've made a band-aid fix and that this won't fix much (and/or even make some bits worse), but I don't think at this point that rushing a first idea vs taking way longer to find a better idea was a simple choice.
 

DrDogg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,510
For EMEA players:

DrDogg I was not saying or implying that your ideas are bad or wouldn't work. Just saying, as a developer, that you can't do and release something in a day, as simple as it can be. I know that you're exaggerating a bit to make a point, but it's never that simple, and I'm just a bit tired of this kind of stuff. Everything must be tested after implementation anyway, especially since the game is already out and you must pass certification and not add even more bugs.
As said above, I agree that they've made a band-aid fix and that this won't fix much (and/or even make some bits worse), but I don't think at this point that rushing a first idea vs taking way longer to find a better idea was a simple choice.
For sure. The implementation of my changes would take more than a day. I only meant that it would take me a day to provide all of the changes to the devs.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,826
Your changes could be provided quickly, and discarded just as quickly

And no shit SSA is not a DP, the thought was working through it and understanding it similarly, and DPs arent always hard reads either, you react to shit and DP a lot of the time too

Lower active frames on holds any longer makes too many slow startup moves get through. I shouldnt be 7King and getting a fatal stun whenever someone holds mid kick, but with 8 active frames I sure as shit would be.

Also hold damage on jabs is fine. You are mixing someone up, or ekeing extra damage into the combo before launch. Those are the risks you as the player with stun granted are taking. You couldve launched sooner, but you gave them more opportunities to hold by going for more damage. You take away that damage and you incentivize just mixing up with non launchers until running out of stun meter, often not launching at all. Thatd be a terrible change to the system
 

DrDogg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,510
Your changes could be provided quickly, and discarded just as quickly
What is the point of this statement? It's not about how quickly you can discard anything. It's about making the game better.

And no shit SSA is not a DP, the thought was working through it and understanding it similarly, and DPs arent always hard reads either, you react to shit and DP a lot of the time too
More often than not, when a DP is not used as an anti-air, it's a hard read.

Lower active frames on holds any longer makes too many slow startup moves get through. I shouldnt be 7King and getting a fatal stun whenever someone holds mid kick, but with 8 active frames I sure as shit would be.
You can't react to anything immediately. I'm going to guess your 7K is 18 frames since you didn't say which character you play. If you react to a 7K in the first 10 frames, you aren't an average human.

Also, how many times do you see "Hi-Counter" on screen? That's basically hitting it within the first 8 frames. At one point, just seeing "Counter" was hitting it by the 10th active frame. Pretty sure you see both of those more than you see nothing displayed when you land a counter (meaning you hit it roughly between frames 11-18 of the current active window).

So if you're spamming counter and I do a 20-frame attack, yeah... you're going to get hit. Time your counter better. It doesn't need to be easy mode because you don't want to bother with better execution.

Also hold damage on jabs is fine. You are mixing someone up, or ekeing extra damage into the combo before launch. Those are the risks you as the player with stun granted are taking. You couldve launched sooner, but you gave them more opportunities to hold by going for more damage. You take away that damage and you incentivize just mixing up with non launchers until running out of stun meter, often not launching at all. Thatd be a terrible change to the system
I didn't say anything about during a stun. I stun > launch whenever possible, but you can hold in neutral. You can hold after blocking something. If I jab at any point in time it's possible to lose 50% damage because of a counter. There's no way to justify that. And that was just an example. If we can't make all holds inflict little to no damage, then it should be relative to the attack you're holding. Hold a launcher, get more damage. Hold a jab, get minimal damage. You shouldn't be rewarded with 30-80% because I jab-checked you or did a 2P in neutral.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
Tried again, worked this time.

Got an error message concerning data loaded while spectating. Given that Kasumi looked like she had no hair, I can see that having something to do with it.

EDIT: And got disconnected from the network just now...
 
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Eolz

Eolz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,262
FR
Yeah we had weird bugs at the end, and everyone stopped playing anyway. That was fun seeing back some regulars!

In other news:

Disappointing if true, but not too surprising.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
Not disappointing at all for me, but I'm biased toward Kula anyway. This also marks the first time that an actual KoF character has appeared in a non-Capcom vs. fighter (rather than a Fatal Fury character who happens to also be in KoF). DoA6 is by no means in the best of shape, but at least more people are playing it than KoF XIV these days (and seeing how TN render her in their style should be interesting).

EDIT: And Ray Spin as one of the moves referenced would most definitely mean it being her specifically.
 
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BuBu Jenkins

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,180
Its disappointing in the fact that its yet another female and a loli at that. Ever since DOA5 TN has released nothing but female DLC characters while Males get the shit end of the stick. The likes of Leon, Ein, Genfu etc being future DLC is looking bleak due to this series track record. The only hope for them now is being added for DOA6U as bonus characters which is what i'm waiting for since vanilla DOA6 is trash.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
A re-release of the base game is indeed the only way I'd expect more men. And given the popularity among SNK's characters for whom they picked, as well as TN's own trajectory evidenced by the mousepad girls, I very much saw this as a strong possibility (I just questioned if they would really do it).
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,826
man bitching about DOA getting females when almost every other fighting game is bloated with males...

still though, vanilla DOA6 trash...honestly w/e
 
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Eolz

Eolz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,262
FR
A re-release of the base game is indeed the only way I'd expect more men. And given the popularity among SNK's characters for whom they picked, as well as TN's own trajectory evidenced by the mousepad girls, I very much saw this as a strong possibility (I just questioned if they would really do it).
Well, Kula was predicted mostly due the wallpapers released back for the DOA5 collab.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
man bitching about DOA getting females when almost every other fighting game is bloated with males...

still though, vanilla DOA6 trash...honestly w/e
What, I thought everybody loved having Janemba and yet another Goku. </Kappa>

That said, SCVI got a lot of crap from people in its OT too for its season pass also being waifus only.

EDIT: Hm, didn't mean to double post, but whatever.
 

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
2,959
I am disappointed about Kula but not terribly surprised. A few of my friends will be excited though.

At least it is not an especially stupid character like Ash I guess.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
Oct 25, 2017
864
Kula should be interesting. I would have rather had Leona and her fine self in but this is fine too. I will try another lobby later if people are interested.
 
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Eolz

Eolz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,262
FR
Everybody disappointed but me. :/
To be clearer, I'm more disappointed in the character itself (childlike attitude, etc). I'm sure she'll be great in terms of moveset/gameplay.
Doesn't help that I hoped for Shermie or Leona, and that many people were hoping for a male character (SNK makes great ones).
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
Hoping for more men as DLC in DoA was always those people setting themselves up for disappointment, and it's not like T7 and FEXL didn't already both pick male SNK guest characters (though I do agree that they make some great ones, far better than most DoA guys). Leona was at least plausible even if the writing was on the wall for Kula joining Mai as early as 5:LR's wallpaper cross-promotion, but Shermie only came back as recently as SNK Heroines, and missed KoF XIV. I pretty much ruled out anyone who didn't appear in both as a result of TN mentioning KoF XIV specifically on the roadmap, and both Kula and Athena being the poster girls for SNK Heroines led me to consider them to be the most likely in that order with everything else taken into account. If they do more crossover outfits for the DoA girls, I should hope that they choose better than Hinako and Kasumi Todoh this time (Yuri was the only good choice in that pack).

Circling back to SCVI's DLC characters for a bit, they've given me pretty much everyone I wanted in SC with Talim already brought back in the base game and actually good for the first time since SCII (minus Tira, whom I'm okay with but wasn't really asking for and is by their own admission a base roster character who the higher-ups made them sell as a bonus character), so I'm one of the few people happy with 2B, Amy, and Cassandra alike.
 
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Eolz

Eolz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,262
FR
Checking some stats, and Kula is apparently taller than Mai and many other KOF female characters?! 1.69m according to wikis.
I guess I remembered that wrong, and that the wallpaper with Marie was misleading.

Korigama I never thought Shermie had a chance tbh, just really hoped for her. Like I'd lover Whip, but her moveset wouldn't work at all (unlike Shermie). Leona would have been a fantastic choice though.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
Indeed, Kula's one of the tallest among KoF's female cast (certainly not something most would expect).

That's fair, everyone always has at least someone they'd want to see (I didn't get anyone I was hoping to see in S2 of DBFZ beyond Fury Broly and Blue Gogeta, but seeing as things have been going my way in pretty much every other game, I'm faring better than most). Regarding Whip, if anything it seems that SNK themselves have had problems getting her to work, with '02 being the last game where she was good or felt right to play (she's wound up low-tier in every other game since, no idea if the last patch for XIV did all that much for her). I would be quite interested to see how a dev would adapt Leona to an 8WR 3D fighter, particularly due to her mainly being a charge character.
 

Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,748
Kula the most obvious of obvious choices. Not a character I really care about but she has potential to be pretty cool in this game so not a terrible choice in that aspect. Visually she is another Marie and NiCo type and even has the same hair color as NiCo.

Will probably get Mai again as I quite liked what TN did with her in 5


Would have loved to see Leona.

Well here is hoping for a Season 2 now with Rachel and Momiji
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
Kula's hair is only blue when powered up, but doubting that TN will include anything fancy like the transitions between that and her normal brunette look.
 

Numb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,285
Its disappointing in the fact that its yet another female and a loli at that. Ever since DOA5 TN has released nothing but female DLC characters while Males get the shit end of the stick. The likes of Leon, Ein, Genfu etc being future DLC is looking bleak due to this series track record. The only hope for them now is being added for DOA6U as bonus characters which is what i'm waiting for since vanilla DOA6 is trash.
Eh, bit disappointed on Kula but that was expected.
I'm curious to see how she'll play at least.
I am disappointed about Kula but not terribly surprised. A few of my friends will be excited though.

At least it is not an especially stupid character like Ash I guess.