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Dead or Alive 6 |OT| Still a Fighter

ShinMaruku

Member
Oct 25, 2017
912
Lobby up stream up:
I will be setting up something nice for some people midweek, I will have for a day or 2 from around 7am-2pm open lobbies for people to join midweek.
I will also be starting up my tutorial vids as well.
 

Oheao

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
6,958
London, Ontario, Canada
All the discussion about it is in the OT now :p
The character got datamined in the PC version and it's Kula
Oh, well I guess my deducting skills aren't very good then.
 
Aug 26, 2018
311
Allow me to pile onto the disappointment that we got fucking Kula instead of someone not a moe 14-year-old brat that whines about ice cream all the time.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,742
I'm over being bummed by the endless conga line of disappointed people. Instead, I'm now relishing the salt.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,742
Knowing enough about the popularity of specific KoF characters, they have nothing to worry about. And even if DoA6 as a whole is failing to be as profitable as 5:LR, seems like a given based on word of underwhelming US sales along with lackluster cosmetic DLC and the inability for most of their users to buy any of it piecemeal anyway, Nioh 2 will do more than enough to keep the lights on at TN.
 

DrDogg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,539
Knowing enough about the popularity of specific KoF characters, they have nothing to worry about. And even if DoA6 as a whole is failing to be as profitable as 5:LR, seems like a given based on word of underwhelming US sales along with lackluster cosmetic DLC and the inability for most of their users to buy any of it piecemeal anyway, Nioh 2 will do more than enough to keep the lights on at TN.
Team Ninja isn't going anywhere, but the DOA franchise might take a long hiatus if this doesn't end up as a financial success. I think it's pretty obvious this game had a low budget (compared to previous entries in the franchise), but I still think they could've done a lot more with what they had. These characters feel like they're in another expansion for DOA5, not a brand new game.

I think it would've been much better for Team Ninja to push Phase 4 and Tengu back a couple months and spend the extra dev time on making the launch roster feel like they're in a new game. With an average of 3 new moves per character, and no balancing around the new system mechanics, something either went wrong during development, or was simply overlooked.
 
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Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,742
Team Ninja isn't going anywhere, but the DOA franchise might take a long hiatus if this doesn't end up as a financial success. I think it's pretty obvious this game had a low budget (compared to previous entries in the franchise), but I still think they could've done a lot more with what they had. These characters feel like they're in another expansion for DOA5, not a brand new game.

I think it would've been much better for Team Ninja to push Phase 4 and Tengu back a couple months and spend the extra dev time on making the characters feel like they're in a new game. With an average of 3 new moves per character, and no balancing around the new system mechanics, something either went wrong during development, or was simply overlooked.
DoA going on hiatus is quite plausible, yes. This definitely feels more like a limited, retooled expansion than a proper sequel, which is all the more strange when considering how many years have passed between games. I wouldn't have expected such a low-budget effort when the game was first announced, let alone KT treating most of their consumers so poorly with how they had DLC work compared to before, but feeling like such a rehash was even more disappointing than the budget.

Considering the fact that the market isn't lacking for options in fighting games these days, even though 8WR ones are less common, I would honestly prefer a break for DoA if a regression like 6 in its current state is the best that they can do.
 
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Eolz

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
I doubt DOA will ever go on hiatus. It's one of the rare big budget IPs for KT, and their only fighting game. It already has a reputation (which, good or bad, is there), does regular sales over time, and has a successful F2P version.
Considering how good they are at managing their budgets, and how they've already teased a next-gen version of DOA6, I'm sure they consider it more as a relative failure at launch rather than a complete failure (like what happened for some other publishers this gen). The regular updates since launch show they've understood their mistakes and are trying to fix that (whether it's good or not is another story). They are basically trying to do for it what they did with Dynasty Warriors 9, but this one was a bigger failure.

They didn't even care that much about it in their financials (outside of the esports side of things), compared to Nioh 2 (they want it to sell 5M), or again, Dynasty Warriors 9.
 
OP
OP
Eolz

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
Double post, but

The KOF collab will be shown after the Taipei Major on June 9. So both during E3 and a tournament.
 

DrDogg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,539
I doubt DOA will ever go on hiatus. It's one of the rare big budget IPs for KT, and their only fighting game. It already has a reputation (which, good or bad, is there), does regular sales over time, and has a successful F2P version.
Considering how good they are at managing their budgets, and how they've already teased a next-gen version of DOA6, I'm sure they consider it more as a relative failure at launch rather than a complete failure (like what happened for some other publishers this gen). The regular updates since launch show they've understood their mistakes and are trying to fix that (whether it's good or not is another story). They are basically trying to do for it what they did with Dynasty Warriors 9, but this one was a bigger failure.

They didn't even care that much about it in their financials (outside of the esports side of things), compared to Nioh 2 (they want it to sell 5M), or again, Dynasty Warriors 9.
When did they tease a next-gen port? Did I miss something?

And the updates post-launch show they are listening to people about the in-game currency, but the balance adjustments have been pretty bad (almost as bad as the SC6 balance adjustments). It's been three months and the game still isn't balanced around any of the new mechanics, and the "nerf" to SS Attack has more impact on Break Blow and Break Hold than the SS Attack.
 
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Eolz

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
When did they tease a next-gen port? Did I miss something?

And the updates post-launch show they are listening to people about the in-game currency, but the balance adjustments have been pretty bad (almost as bad as the SC6 balance adjustments). It's been three months and the game still isn't balanced around any of the new mechanics, and the "nerf" to SS Attack has more impact on Break Blow and Break Hold than the SS Attack.
I believe they mentioned that it would have to be on next-gen if they brought tag team back when it was brought up in an interview. But it may have been more of a hypothetical than any real plans.
Yeah this.
JP interviews saying that tag team would only be on platforms more powerful than the ones currently on the market.
I mean, we know a port will come at worst anyway, that's what happened with DOA5, and what happens with KT games in general.

DrDogg which new mechanics are you talking about? Hasn't it been only the sidestep being linked to the gauge now?
Game balance is changing at every patch as usual with them (like nerfing Hayabusa's throws in the last one).
 

DrDogg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,539
Yeah this.
JP interviews saying that tag team would only be on platforms more powerful than the ones currently on the market.
I mean, we know a port will come at worst anyway, that's what happened with DOA5, and what happens with KT games in general.

DrDogg which new mechanics are you talking about? Hasn't it been only the sidestep being linked to the gauge now?
Game balance is changing at every patch as usual with them (like nerfing Hayabusa's throws in the last one).
I guess it was inevitable. I wonder what kind of upgrades they'll be able to do on next-gen. Not only will they have more time with the new engine, but they'll have more power. Hopefully it's a proper DOA6.

For the mechanics, the game isn't balanced around any of the new stuff:
  • Not a single move list was checked out to adjust tracking and non-tracking options for the new evasive sidestep. At launch everyone's tracking moves were basically the same as LR, despite DOA5 having a far less evasive sidestep.
  • Characters don't all have even remotely equal options when it comes to stun > launch. Some characters can basically stun > launch off almost everything, while others are extremely restricted if they want to stun > launch.
  • Not everyone can use bound combos with ease. Some characters have to cut a combo short and lose a ton of damage if they want to bound, while others can seemingly bound off almost any launch and get full damage.
  • Even Fatal Rush combos are not even close to being equal. Brad Wong's Fatal Rush starts with an attack that crushes highs, while other characters can't even use a Fatal Rush in important stun situations.
To clarify, I don't expect everyone to have equal access to everything. But if a new mechanic is added (or in this case several), I expect all characters to be able to use it pretty well. That is not the case with DOA as characters were barely changed from DOA5 to DOA6. Some characters only got as few as three new attacks (not counting FR, BB and BH) and changed more during the first DOA5 patch than they did from LR to DOA6.
 
OP
OP
Eolz

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
To clarify, I don't expect everyone to have equal access to everything. But if a new mechanic is added (or in this case several), I expect all characters to be able to use it pretty well. That is not the case with DOA as characters were barely changed from DOA5 to DOA6. Some characters only got as few as three new attacks (not counting FR, BB and BH) and changed more during the first DOA5 patch than they did from LR to DOA6.
That's fair.

edit: new interview with Shimbori, focused on esports.
Not much interesting I can see with google translate, but here's some points summed up:
- development took about 2 years (not counting concepts before using the engine), they'll reuse the engine for future projects
- in terms of sales/players, it's NA>EU>JP/ASIA. Popularity in EU is thanks to localization. Many russian fans, and that's why there's now russian localization, and Nico was made with russia in mind too (including the VA choice).
- they feel their choices will make the game more interesting/varied at high level in the long term compared to 5.
- esports is a goal in the future, but their current goal is having more people playing it at their own rhythm (online, solo, etc).

The rest is mostly stuff we've heard in the past (apologies included), and talking about some events.
 
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Liferebooted

Member
Nov 13, 2017
176
Pretty sure the game is dead, atleast ranked mode on ps4. Been searching for ranked matches 1-3 hours a day for 5 days in a row now and have only found 3 matches. Stupid ass 100 ranked match trophy is screwing me out of this easy platinum. Game is actually fun, I just wish people played it.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,742
And yet they still choose to treat NA/EU PS4 and Steam players as second-class citizens with DLC anyway...
 

Hours Left

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,783
The game is a mega flop, and it deserves to be. I don't say this for fun, it's just the truth.

Basically every single thing they could do wrong, they did, and they haven't fixed the majority of the problems, months in.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,169
I still cant figure out how "everything" is wrong. Its one of the most complete packages released for a fighting game, and 2/3 of the major launch issues are fixed (Costume unlocks, lobbies)
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,742
Can't say I'm surprised that they only spent two years working on this, though.
I still cant figure out how "everything" is wrong. Its one of the most complete packages released for a fighting game, and 2/3 of the major launch issues are fixed (Costume unlocks, lobbies)
I would've seen costume unlocks as fixed only if it went back to how they worked in 5:LR. Still a grind where you can't control which ones the parts go to for the character being played and where you have to unlock each outfit twice, once with all of the necessary parts (with arbitrarily decided parts totals) and then a second time with the in-game currency.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,169
Can't say I'm surprised that they only spent two years working on this, though.

I would've seen costume unlocks as fixed only if it went back to how they worked in 5:LR. Still a grind where you can't control which ones the parts go to for the character being played and where you have to unlock each outfit twice, once with all of the necessary parts (with arbitrarily decided parts totals) and then a second time with the in-game currency.
does that really matter when it takes like an hour to unlock every costume for a character?
 

remz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,111
Can't say I'm surprised that they only spent two years working on this, though.

I would've seen costume unlocks as fixed only if it went back to how they worked in 5:LR. Still a grind where you can't control which ones the parts go to for the character being played and where you have to unlock each outfit twice, once with all of the necessary parts (with arbitrarily decided parts totals) and then a second time with the in-game currency.
Sorry but as above the game gives you so much stuff now that it's a non issue if you actually try to do it
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,742
does that really matter when it takes like an hour to unlock every costume for a character?
When it used to only take a matter of minutes per costume with the old method, yes. With the way it works in this game, an hour is closer to what it would take to get just one as it distributes parts randomly, if you're lucky.
Sorry but as above the game gives you so much stuff now that it's a non issue if you actually try to do it
I don't see how it does things as respecting my time, and I have actually tried. I don't see it giving "so much stuff" compared to the game before it, particularly considering how many color swaps there were (not that those didn't exist previously). More hair customization options yeah, indifferent to more glasses options though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,169
When it used to only take a matter of minutes per costume with the old method, yes. With the way it works in this game, an hour is closer to what it would take to get just one as it distributes parts randomly, if you're lucky.
no, like literally not at all. Part counts are so high now that you can finish a single character extremely quickly
 

DyByHands

Member
Jul 16, 2018
599
no, like literally not at all. Part counts are so high now that you can finish a single character extremely quickly
I have a bigger issue with the currency not parts. Right now I need like, idk, a couple hundred thousand to unlock the remaining costumes, lol. The unlock system is better than launch, but it still has problems.
 

Driver

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,053
Southern California
My only two issues remaining are the lack of intro/win/defeat poses and the inability to purchase individual costumes. The game is solid but you can really tell it wasn't given the same budget as earlier titles. I've had lots of fun playing ranked matches too. I feel like I'm learning a lot about fighting games but I still have a long way to go.
 
OP
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Eolz

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
Lobby won't be during an E3 conference, so I'm up for it as usual.

In other news, DOA6 will be at -20% off for Days of Play:
 

SmokedSalmon

Member
Apr 1, 2019
485
They should be trying to reignite the series next gen and do it the right way. I really like this series and the fans arent huge but we are vocal and we do support when we can.
I’m wondering what the right way would be. I’m a little curious as to what the fans want.

It’s seems that lots of people are disappointed with this game. To anyone reading, if you were to fix the game, how would you do it? Let’s just say you can’t say something like “burn it all and start over from scratch,” you have to find a way to improve the game we got.
 
OP
OP
Eolz

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
As others pointed out, it's basically communication issues at this point. They fixed a lot and will still do that for a while, so that's not really an issue on that side anymore (there's still issues left mind you, but it's not as important as missing lobbies and similar).
Only way you can fix that is through a soft relaunch tbh. Their communication around the DLC characters will be very important, and their next big opportunity will be with the next gen port.
But again, it's not a failure (like MvCI), nor a niche game. They need to support the competitive scene, and vice-versa. It'll help.

Anyway, as a reminder, top 8 of the Taipei major is tonight (after our usual lobby). Mai and other KOF character (Kula) reveals should be during that time period:
 
Aug 26, 2018
311
I’m wondering what the right way would be. I’m a little curious as to what the fans want.

It’s seems that lots of people are disappointed with this game. To anyone reading, if you were to fix the game, how would you do it? Let’s just say you can’t say something like “burn it all and start over from scratch,” you have to find a way to improve the game we got.
  • Fix the story mode. At least have it play out chronologically without the user being kicked back to the select screen every fight.
  • Fix all the graphical errors. Like...all of them. There are too many to even list.
  • Add the stage variations to normal gameplay and not just in story mode.
  • The Museum stage has no DOA3 part for some reason.
  • Give the dudes and NiCO more costumes to level it out with everyone else.
  • Add a gallery with concept art and such.
  • Add back the normal sidestep attacks too, since they want to have the current attack cost meter.
  • Get the intro/win pose situation squared away. You can't even count on character-specific quotes to come out right as it is now.
  • At least add Team Battle back if Tag isn't going to work.
  • Put move names back into the move list so it's not just a deluge of buttons.
  • Leon. I guess Momiji and Rachel can come back, too. Sure, okay, Gen Fu and Ein.
  • Let additional outfits be bought individually.
That should cover it. lol
 

SmokedSalmon

Member
Apr 1, 2019
485
My biggest problem right now is the costume situation. I checked out Dissidia NT on Steam and you can totally buy individual costumes and weapon skins, of which there are a ton, so there really is no reason why we can’t have individual costumes (and of course JP PS4 version proves that there is no reason why we couldn’t have them for PS4 either). I wouldn’t be surprised at this point if the only reason why you can buy individual cons tunes on Xbox is because the Xbox team wouldn’t allow them to sell the costumes as packs.

As others pointed out, it's basically communication issues at this point. They fixed a lot and will still do that for a while, so that's not really an issue on that side anymore (there's still issues left mind you, but it's not as important as missing lobbies and similar).
Only way you can fix that is through a soft relaunch tbh. Their communication around the DLC characters will be very important, and their next big opportunity will be with the next gen port.
But again, it's not a failure (like MvCI), nor a niche game. They need to support the competitive scene, and vice-versa. It'll help.
This is pretty much where I’m at too. I think they have to make their road map sound exciting to people. When it came to Nioh I almost felt like I was being treated too good, so maybe take some pointers from that team. Of course, these are two completely different games so that’s a bit disingenuous of me. I think fighting games are in a weird spot right now because its harder to play up your “super” version when games are getting updated on a regular basis. Somehow their going to have to make every new character feel like an event. I suppose though that when next gen rolls around they can really go for the soft relaunch.

It would be interesting if they could experiment with small updates too. When it comes to fighting game, it seems a lot of people are disciplined with stories which is probably because we get so attached to these characters though maining them. I wonder if they could add in some story stuff as we go along. It would be fine be me too if it was kind of cheap, using like a visual novel sort of format with occasional traditional cutscenes.

Just curious, is everyone not feeling the meter sidestep attack. I actually think its kind of neat change but I’m by no means an amazing player so I couldn’t say with confidence if its a good change or not.
 
OP
OP
Eolz

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
Just curious, is everyone not feeling the meter sidestep attack. I actually think its kind of neat change but I’m by no means an amazing player so I couldn’t say with confidence if its a good change or not.
It's not that everyone feels it's a bad change, but more that everyone knows that it's a bandaid fix and put in quickly.
I don't mind it too much personally, but I can see it was rushed in.

edit: lots of online errors tonight for some reason, for plenty of people.
With the KOF reveal tonight, I kinda wonder if they're not gonna pull a "available right now!" announcement.
 
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Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,507
I still enjoy it because I like the core game but man...


If KT at all cares about fixing this game from the rushed and unpolished state it is in a lot needs to be done. Starting by stopping all the outsourcing and making the game fully developed in house.

Character models and costumes need fixes and improvements and in some cases complete overhauls. I still have no idea how someone could look at the Nyotengu in DoA6 and think the result is even remotely acceptable and give the ok on that. Kasumi, Ayane and especially Nyotengu all need overhauls that actually make them look like DoA5/X3/VV again. I don’t really care about the navels but they are the perfect example of wtf happened with this game, how can you mess up something so basic that any character artist should be properly adding without even thinking about it

Phase4 a dlc character or NiCO the new character not having 5 costumes is still a fucking joke especially when for P4 they had a bunch of DoA5LR costumes to pick if they couldn’t be bothered with making even 1 new costume. Male characters also should have had alteast 1 more costume. I said it before but Rig having less costumes in the game where he is not the newcomer anymore than the game where he was the new male character is crazy

Environments need improvements and story versions of stages need to be made playable. Atleast do this to prop up the pathetic stage selection

Individual dlc purchases. How a publisher actively does not want customers ro spend money on their damn game is beyond me.

Good dlc. Starting off DoA6's dlc with 2 themed copy pasta packs is a complete joke.

Bring back DoA5s side step attacks. Its obvious that they have no idea what to do with the DoA6 side step attack that they had to release a bandaid fix

Bring Move names and arrows indicating the height of the attack back

Do something to make people feel like buying and playing this game is actually appreciated. Some free stages and costume dlc

Rachel, Momiji.


A damn sequel shouldn't feel like an inferior game but DoA6 in every single aspect just feels like a worse game. If DoA5LR got a updated netcode and people started playing that again I would be back on DoA5 immediately.


DoA6 in its current state seems like a game that just exists because they knew they couldn’t continue pumping out dlc for what was already just an updated rerelease of a last gen title so they needed a new game. Of course somehow they are even fucking up that dlc cash cow part now
 
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SmokedSalmon

Member
Apr 1, 2019
485
I'm kind of picking up the game again and I'm having lots of fun! I'll probably be playing a lot between E3 stuff.

It's not that everyone feels it's a bad change, but more that everyone knows that it's a bandaid fix and put in quickly.
I don't mind it too much personally, but I can see it was rushed in.
I see. Well hopefully it will improve with time then.

I love Ninja Gaiden! It would be a lot of fun to have these characters again.

Individual dlc purchases. How a publisher actively does not want customers ro spend money on their damn game is beyond me.
Its really unfortunate. Hopefully they can be convinced to change their tactics here. I also agree with you about "good dlc" though I think that was a huge problem with 5 a lot of the time too. I really wish each costume was made for each specific character's personality in mind instead of making one to two variations and then splitting them between all the characters. It even makes the idea of buying a full pack of costumes seem even more ridiculous because most of it is the same.

Character models and costumes need fixes and improvements and in some cases complete overhauls. I still have no idea how someone could look at the Nyotengu in DoA6 and think the result is even remotely acceptable and give the ok on that.
People keep talking about stuff like this but I honestly just cant see it. I decided to take a closer look myself to see if I was crazy or not.
Nyotengu's face in DOA6 is almost completely identical to her face in DOA5. The only real difference is that the neck on the older model is positioned just the slightest bit more in the back.
The protrusions on the cheek is just blender having trouble deciding which mesh to show in front because they are right on top of each other and identical. In fact if I select the faces of the new mesh, you can see the selection in that cheek area. Included some wire frames too.

I think this largely comes down to the lighting of the characters being different now.
I only found two differences. One is the lips. On the old model her top lip bent kind of inward (new on top).
The other difference is that her eye shadow is different, most notably she has almost none on the bottom of her eyes now.
 

Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,507
People keep talking about stuff like this but I honestly just cant see it. I decided to take a closer look myself to see if I was crazy or not.
Atleast it puts it into the realm where she could be fixed rather easily the moment someone gives a shit. Doesn’t fix stripping her of her expressions and personality though

Kinda makes it all the more baffling that whoever worked on her model could fuck up so much despite not really changing the face itself

The fact that with X3 and VV they have games that are also actively supported where characters still look normal and look how they should have in 6 just makes it even worse.
 
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Aug 26, 2018
311
Oh, yeah. Also, fix the break blow situation. Either have the close-up or don't. Don't have "certain" characters be immune to it.