Dealing with a religious girlfriend when you are not religious

[Deleted member 49482]

Couples counseling or break up.

Staying together without at least the former is a recipe for you becoming increasingly resentful and/or running into more fundamental differences in opinion due to religion.

 

[FinalFanXtreme]

So I have been dating my current girlfriend for around a year. From the beginning we both knew that I wasnt religious and that she was Christian. But from the beginning she also mentioned that she has no issue being with someone who doesnt share every same opinion on spirituality. I wouldn't say i am a religious person in any way, I've always just thought "meh, maybe something greater is out there but I'm not going to pursue it. The problems that arise in my life can be solved by analyzing why they exist and working on making logical steps to solving them". Today while she was at church I guess her pastor gave a lecture on how one must "stay pure" and that the only way for jesus to love them wholly is to abstain from sex until marriage. It struck a chord in my girlfriend and she called me and told me that she is no longer going to have sex until marriage.

Soooo as i stated, we've been dating for around a year. And we have had sex regularly during the entire relationship. Religion has never caused any issues or divides in our relationship yet but she is very serious about this now and essentially its either;
a. We continue to date but no longer have sex
B. We break up

Of all of my numerous relationships, I have never felt such a strong foundation built on love and trust as I have with this one. I feel fairly strongly that I could end up marrying her in the future, but due to us both doing graduate school, i highly doubt we would be married within the next couple of years.

I've always believed sexual intimacy to be an important part in a relationship. I dont see sex as just a lustful act, i see it as a pure connection to another person on a highly emotional and physical level. So im contemplating our future. I adore this woman, and am open to supporting her wishes, but it feels like such a step backwards in our relationship after we've already been sexually active for a long time. Has anyone been in a similar situation? Is it do-able in the long run?

Click to shrink...

I dated a religious girl we would go to church every Sunday and do church events regularly. We never sealed the deal because of it but we would do everything but straight sex. One day her parents found a vibrator and she called and had an ultimatum talk with me.

A) we stop all intimacy until we get married
B) break up

I told her to hit the road. No regrets. Just wish I didn't waste three years on it. But eh whatever

 

[FeistyBoots]

Never again. I checked out when she said she'd witnessed an exorcism. The fuck you did, lol. This was like 7 years ago.

 

[plow]

I am a christian, catholic and was an altar boy during my youth and teens and helped during 3 world youth days. One thing is taking the bible literally, another one is analyzing what the analogies, epistles etc. mean.

No one ever called me brainwashed because I am catholic. That doesnt mean I think gay people are sick, sex before marriage is the greatest sin ever, non-believers are wrong etc. I was taught "love thy neighbour as thyself". There are many interpretations to the bible and its various epistles, analogies etc. even inside theologic circles. And in my opinion the worst is taking the bible literally.

Also regarding the brainwashing. The OP said she herself struggled with it, but apparently was totally okay at the beginning. Of course its not just because of one pastor saying it, but communities and especially pastors can have a huge influence on people. At one point our church had a conservative pastor that literally took the bible seriously and ofc he can influence people to a certain degree. He was really popular with old folks, but if you grow up with someone like that, his opinions and his interpretation of the bible might rub off on someone. Then years later we had a young pastor, who had different opinions based on his own interpretations of several parts of the bible. And ofc his opinion and interpretations can also rub off on people.

Click to shrink...

Of course they can and they do have influence. I'm not here telling you "it's only on you, no one is gonna get to you". It's not.
But it's no "brainwashing" and "if one sermon can change her opinion on things" either.+

and to Toler Supreme good decision. If you deeply love her i truly believe this is something you can get over.
Being raised in a christian family i do know a lot of cases of marriages with "both" views. In all of these the children could make their decision. On top of that, your girlfriend was raised with taking her own decision, so i don't see why she wouldn't raise her kids the same way. So to counter argue a lot of people here, don't dump her just because she is religious.

 

[Deleted member 25606]

I feel the need to post again since supposedly people are being "anti-Christian" or intolerant.

It's not about the sex. It's not even really about religion beyond that's where the third party in this case is. It's about the fact that a third party has more influence on the girlfriends thought process to the point she is making relationship choices without her partners input or choice. And while people are trying to gloss it and OP said she had thought about it, anyone catch the later post saying her roommate from the same church after the same sermon forced the same decision on her boyfriend? That's a problem.

And just to show the issue, with no religion or sex. I have a cousin who got married and had a kid. His ex wife however disregarded any input from him and made all her decisons based on her parents input (to the point where she now is about to get remarried to a man that her parents handpicked and they still make all the decisions her and the guy do not) to the point it ruined their relationship and they divorced.

That's the problem. No one should be making decisons for your relationship except the people in it, as partners. Even if she came up with it on her own it would be sketchy. Not that it's wrong for someone to make a decision like this in a relationship but not like this. You go to your partner and talk as partners and work it out, not hand down ultimatums.

Again, OP doesn't even get a say in a decision his partner made (should we define partner?) and to top it off it's a decision she and her roommate made with input from a third party. Doesn't matter if it's a pastor, friend, parent, co-worker, whatever, the fact someone not in the relationship's influence not only factors in but helps decide the choice when the partner has no say is a huge red flag and a recipe for future heartbreak and disaster.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I tried dating born-again virgins as an adult. Didn't work. All the power to you if you want to marry this girl.

 

[Deleted member 17402]

And here I am on the complete opposite end in an open relationship. Interesting to see how different relationships and views on sex can be. (Shrug)

 

[ChrisP8Three]

I feel the need to post again since supposedly people are being "anti-Christian" or intolerant.

It's not about the sex. It's not even really about religion beyond that's where the third party in this case is. It's about the fact that a third party has more influence on the girlfriends thought process to the point she is making relationship choices without her partners input or choice. And while people are trying to gloss it and OP said she had thought about it, anyone catch the later post saying her roommate from the same church after the same sermon forced the same decision on her boyfriend? That's a problem.

And just to show the issue, with no religion or sex. I have a cousin who got married and had a kid. His ex wife however disregarded any input from him and made all her decisons based on her parents input (to the point where she now is about to get remarried to a man that her parents handpicked and they still make all the decisions her and the guy do not) to the point it ruined their relationship and they divorced.

That's the problem. No one should be making decisons for your relationship except the people in it, as partners. Even if she came up with it on her own it would be sketchy. Not that it's wrong for someone to make a decision like this in a relationship but not like this. You go to your partner and talk as partners and work it out, not hand down ultimatums.

Again, OP doesn't even get a say in a decision his partner made (should we define partner?) and to top it off it's a decision she and her roommate made with input from a third party. Doesn't matter if it's a pastor, friend, parent, co-worker, whatever, the fact someone not in the relationship's influence not only factors in but helps decide the choice when the partner has no say is a huge red flag and a recipe for future heartbreak and disaster.

Click to shrink...

I was going to say something flippant in this topic about OP being the third wheel in the relationship, but this post quite maturely makes the same point.
It is not healthy that his Girlfriend is so easily influenced, its even more concerning the same pastor has influenced another in their circle of friends.
Op you need a serious talk on this topic and make it clear who she is in a relationship with as you should decide together. IF she is unwilling to change, then i would say she is too immature and as painful as it is, you should be reevaluating your prospects, because similar things will happen again.

 

[Apathy]

Have you tried like, telling her all of this first

Click to shrink...

This should just be an auto first post whenever someone post a issue with a gf post on here

 

[Tzarscream]

OP I'd like to remind you that on a forum, people tend to give advice they probably wouldn't take in their own lives, particularly when it comes to love and relationships.

All you can do is talk to her about what you're feeling and proceed based on that, what will be will be.

 

[Boddy]

So much. Apprently ERA is an "Open minded" Forum, except for religious people.
Also every Christian is indoctrinated, brainwashed and stupid and to top that of an fundamentalist.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, the tolerance for religious people here is anything but great.

 

[Rayven_king]

the olde withholding sex as a negotiation tactic, its not worth your time to play those games in my opinion

 

[xChildofhatex]

You should probably talk to her about all this but incidents like this ring alarm bells in my head. I mean, in the future, if your girlfriend's church starts preaching that gay people are evil and abortion equals killing babies, how would that affect her? Will she blindly follow anything her church tells her is right? How would that affect you? I'm guessing you should discuss this at length with her.

 

[plow]

I feel the need to post again since supposedly people are being "anti-Christian" or intolerant.

It's not about the sex. It's not even really about religion beyond that's where the third party in this case is. It's about the fact that a third party has more influence on the girlfriends thought process to the point she is making relationship choices without her partners input or choice. And while people are trying to gloss it and OP said she had thought about it, anyone catch the later post saying her roommate from the same church after the same sermon forced the same decision on her boyfriend? That's a problem.

And just to show the issue, with no religion or sex. I have a cousin who got married and had a kid. His ex wife however disregarded any input from him and made all her decisons based on her parents input (to the point where she now is about to get remarried to a man that her parents handpicked and they still make all the decisions her and the guy do not) to the point it ruined their relationship and they divorced.

That's the problem. No one should be making decisons for your relationship except the people in it, as partners. Even if she came up with it on her own it would be sketchy. Not that it's wrong for someone to make a decision like this in a relationship but not like this. You go to your partner and talk as partners and work it out, not hand down ultimatums.

Again, OP doesn't even get a say in a decision his partner made (should we define partner?) and to top it off it's a decision she and her roommate made with input from a third party. Doesn't matter if it's a pastor, friend, parent, co-worker, whatever, the fact someone not in the relationship's influence not only factors in but helps decide the choice when the partner has no say is a huge red flag and a recipe for future heartbreak and disaster.

Click to shrink...

I know what you are saying, but what can his grilfriend do? She doesn't want to have sex before her marriage because after thinking about it she sees it as something that shouldn't be done. You can argue with her that it's a dumb decision, i understand that, but it's a decision she has taken for HER Life.

Now the problem with this decision is, that there is another person who is "harmed". OP isn't getting any sex from her and his sexual life will be influenced badly by this decision.

But the Girl had no choice at all! What should she have done, still have Sex with him without wanting to? This is not a decision two people should take. If one Person isn't happy with something they should stop doing it period. And this is not exclusive to Sex.

 

[Prax]

We have discussed it a lot. And she is firmly in her stance of abstinence now. I'm just curious if anyone else has been in a similar situation and could offer advice. I know i won't find any real answers here, but it feels good to talk about to to strangers with little to no bias in the situation.

Click to shrink...

If you are otherwise happy with each other and having fun together, it's probably worth it to try abstinence for a while and see how it suits your relationship (give it about a year?). Keep making out. Chances are you will get to do everything BUT the vaginal or anal stuff lol. My guess is given her character, her mind WILL change about it.
The concerning thing is that she sounds a bit gullible and is prone to making lifechanging decisions based on whim or her own impressionability (will probably have major midlife crises) that you will have to help her solve.

When I began dating my husband, I made it clear I wasn't having sex until marriage, even though I wasn't religious at all and neitehr is he. It was just a "thing" I decided on (autism? repression? flirting with asexuality? who knows!). He acquiesed, thinking that maybe I'd change my mind. I didn't. IT WAS 10 YEARS OF DATING LIKE THAT (well, maybe one of those years was official engagement). lol It was not a dealbreaker for him, which is nothing short of amazing given he has pretty high libido. Worked out in the end because we've been married more than 6 years now. My libido is low, so we don't have sex that often, but it's otherwise a happy marriage.

So this is really up to you to figure out how to balance out your needs and wants in the relationship. Again, I'd say to try it out to see where the needle is on that and if it's truly a dealbreaker for you. As for her part, I'd try to talk to her about "why" such rules are in place religiously. Engage with her about the religious aspect, like telling her you figure a caring God made these rules because many people don't have a good idea about how devotion, honesty, and communication works, so they need simple rules like that to follow to ensure fidelity and lower the risk of disappointment and jealousy. People who risk those things often end up in anger, resentment, making extremely risky decisions, and hurting each other deeply, which is the "real sin", as the religion (supposedly) is about love.

If your relationship already shows good devotion, fideility, honesty, communication, then you are ahead of pack and the rules are not so much rules but "helpful guidelines", and that sex is the reward/enjoyment you get to experience for being able to show that kind of devotion or fidelity to one another.

 

[Deleted member 25606]

I know what you are saying, but what can his grilfriend do? She doesn't want to have sex before her marriage because after thinking about it she sees it as something that shouldn't be done. You can argue with her that it's a dumb decision, i understand that, but it's a decision she has taken for HER Life.

Now the problem with this decision is, that there is another person who is "harmed". OP isn't getting any sex from her and his sexual life will be influenced badly by this decision.

But the Girl had no choice at all! What should she have done, still have Sex with him without wanting to? This is not a decision two people should take. If one Person isn't happy with something they should stop doing it period. And this is not exclusive to Sex.

Click to shrink...

Not disagreeing with that. As I said it's not even the decision, it's the how and why. If it was soley her decision and she had come to him and talked to him and heard his input than made her decision my advice would be quite different. Again my issue is she made the decision ultimately on a third party's words and then chose that without him even knowing. What other decisions in their life will he find are being made by her and the (in this case the the pastor but again could be any third party) pastor without him having any choice, say, or even just input in the matter none of which he had here? That's the issue.

 

[Deleted member 5549]

I know what you are saying, but what can his grilfriend do? She doesn't want to have sex before her marriage because after thinking about it she sees it as something that shouldn't be done. You can argue with her that it's a dumb decision, i understand that, but it's a decision she has taken for HER Life.

Now the problem with this decision is, that there is another person who is "harmed". OP isn't getting any sex from her and his sexual life will be influenced badly by this decision.

But the Girl had no choice at all! What should she have done, still have Sex with him without wanting to? This is not a decision two people should take. If one Person isn't happy with something they should stop doing it period. And this is not exclusive to Sex.

Click to shrink...

she said, she doesn't want to have sex, because her church told her, she's basically a meth addict for having it before marriage. how does she not have a choice in all of this? if the pastor tells you to kill the filthy homos, are you going on a murder spree?

don't listen to morons is a good choice in life, IMO.

 

[Moogle]

That's the problem. No one should be making decisons for your relationship except the people in it, as partners. Even if she came up with it on her own it would be sketchy. Not that it's wrong for someone to make a decision like this in a relationship but not like this. You go to your partner and talk as partners and work it out, not hand down ultimatums.

Again, OP doesn't even get a say in a decision his partner made (should we define partner?) and to top it off it's a decision she and her roommate made with input from a third party. Doesn't matter if it's a pastor, friend, parent, co-worker, whatever, the fact someone not in the relationship's influence not only factors in but helps decide the choice when the partner has no say is a huge red flag and a recipe for future heartbreak and disaster.

Click to shrink...

Such is the nature of sexual consent. She gets to determine her own boundaries for herself for whatever reason she wants, and OP is also solely in charge of his own. The factor of her own feelings, which she was already having, being affirmed by a trusted third party is largely irrelevant as she may well have still reached this decision without hearing his sermon. And what the hell is so "sketchy" about it? OP has said again and again she doesn't even want to get married for some time, she's not giving ultimatums for him to propose or go. All these comments about poor dude missing out on all the sex being 'withheld' from him (as if he's owed it) are fucking gross as shit. You say the issue isn't the lack of sex, but that seems to be the only takeaway most in this thread have. So what's your proposed solution? They have a little chat and come to a compromise on her consent? No means no, not "convince me."

 

[deathsaber]

Going solely on the OP original post- to me it brings up a few interesting questions.

First off, the obvious observation- so now she wants to abstain, but you've already had tons of sex. If some time of purity is what the goal is here, obviously that ship is already sailed.

But going beyond that, OK, so she says no sex until marriage. OK? So when is that? Is it sometime soon? Do you think the question will be popped very soon? Do you picture yourself even asking her? Do you think she would say yes? All valid questions.

I mean, I guess for yourself its simply- one of two decisions to be made. You either say hell no and probably break up, or you respect her wishes, but again it brings up the question- so when are you getting married? Because frankly this really pushes the issue now in my book. Because assuming she is a reasonable person, she can't expect her boyfriend (with whom she has had regular "relations" with up to this point) to all of a sudden go completely without and stick around indefinitely without this interaction. So, IMO, OP- this pushes you to either get on popping that question, or ending things. You are at the crossroads dude, so choose wisely.

 

[Deleted member 5549]

Such is the nature of sexual consent. She gets to determine her own boundaries for herself for whatever reason she wants, and OP is also solely in charge of his own. The factor of her own feelings, which she was already having, being affirmed by a trusted third party is largely irrelevant as she may well have still reached this decision without hearing his sermon. And what the hell is so "sketchy" about it? OP has said again and again she doesn't even want to get married for some time, she's not giving ultimatums for him to propose or go. All these comments about poor dude missing out on all the sex being 'withheld' from him (as if he's owed it) are fucking gross as shit. You say the issue isn't the lack of sex, but that seems to be the only takeaway most in this thread have. So what's your proposed solution? They have a little chat and come to a compromise on her consent? No means no, not "convince me."

Click to shrink...

I believe we shouldn't use religion to slutshame women. but I'm not religious and a man, so what do I know? my cousin is catholic, isn't married and has casual sex. do I have to slutshame her now, for her own good?

 

[Deleted member 25606]

Such is the nature of sexual consent. She gets to determine her own boundaries for herself for whatever reason she wants, and OP is also solely in charge of his own. The factor of her own feelings, which she was already having, being affirmed by a trusted third party is largely irrelevant as she may well have still reached this decision without hearing his sermon. And what the hell is so "sketchy" about it? OP has said again and again she doesn't even want to get married for some time, she's not giving ultimatums for him to propose or go. All these comments about poor dude missing out on all the sex being 'withheld' from him (as if he's owed it) are fucking gross as shit. You say the issue isn't the lack of sex, but that seems to be the only takeaway most in this thread have. So what's your proposed solution? They have a little chat and come to a compromise on her consent? No means no, not "convince me."

Click to shrink...

His further posts said her pastor related it to being a meth head earlier at a sermon he was at, which is what started her concern so her "thinking about it awhile" is correlated to his sermons, and her roommate who goes to the same church, on the same day also made that decision so don't tell me it isn't the pastors influence.

And don't act like I'm really about sex when I gave examples of what the issue is with situations not involving sex. She wants to make that decision fine, doesn't owe him anything it's true. But if she came to that decision (or any other) on her own, came to him and shared her reasoning, thoughts, heard what he had to say even without budging my advice would be very different. But thats not what happened. She made a decision (along with a friend) based on how her pastor made her feel and then just threw it in his lap. So my advice is to think hard and long about if it's worth getting married and having kids with someone who could potentially start making choices about his family and children without his input based on the input of people not in the relationship.

You can keep twisting it around to sex and consent and acting like I am advocating nice guying it that's all your doing is twisting things because that's not what I am saying and I have made it clear what I am saying in multiple posts.

But whatever, people are fine with people not in their relationship having control and input when they dont have any, keep doing you.

 

[I am a Bird]

how about masturbating together

how close to sex can you get before its considered sex

Click to shrink...

Bible don't like that either. In fact it gets even more mad more some reason.

 

[SweetBellic]

Sounds like you have to marry her or move on as a relationship without intimacy would be too unfulfilling for you (it certainly wouldn't cut if for me lol).

 

[Tezz]

Bible don't like that either. In fact it gets even more mad more some reason.

Click to shrink...

Pretty sure God killed that guy for pulling out. Not masturbating.

 

[I Don't Like]

And what the hell is so "sketchy" about it?

Click to shrink...

She had a sermon from her pastor who compared it to being a meth addict and she was like "Oh actually no more sex until marriage."

If that kind of idiotic, childish fear-mongering can make her change her mind about something fairly significant in the relationship - and it should be noted again they were already having sex - that is a huge red flag and I would also say it's not fucking normal by any objective measure, for obvious reasons.

Of course the boundaries are ultimately up to her but the question here wasn't whether they were.

 

[Rampage]

For the OP, I suggest that if you really love her and think the relationship is salvageable, go see a couple consular to help work through this issue.

Neither of you are wrong in your beliefs. It fine that you are good with sex before marriage. It is fine that she has decided sex before marriage is bad. You two need to have a mature discussion to see if this relationship will be able to continue under these two opposing stances.

She has every right to deny sex. But she does not have the right keep you in a relationship under false pretenses. She should not shamed for her new found religious conviction.

You do not have the right to have sex with her just because she was okay with it before. You do have the right to leave her and seek out other like minded partners. You should not be shamed for wanting sex before marriage (also long as you are practicing safe consensual sex).

 

[plow]

she said, she doesn't want to have sex, because her church told her, she's basically a meth addict for having it before marriage. how does she not have a choice in all of this? if the pastor tells you to kill the filthy homos, are you going on a murder spree?

don't listen to morons is a good choice in life, IMO.

Click to shrink...

You surely have no idea how this works. It's not because "her church" told her. She can do her choices and not listen to anyone but herself.
You guys are pretty judgemental on OPs GF and apparently you think she is too stupid to take decisions herself and easy to manipulate. All this based on one instance.

So much about "we don't judge people".

 

[Deleted member 5549]

You surely have no idea how this works. It's not because "her church" told her. She can do her choices and not listen to anyone but herself.
You guys are pretty judgemental on OPs GF and apparently you think she is too stupid to take decisions herself and easy to manipulate. All this based on one instance.

So much about "we don't judge people".

Click to shrink...

educate me then.

speaking of choices, my parents abandoned me for being gay. many parents abandoned their kids for being lgbt, how do you justify that choice?

 

[Moogle]

She had a sermon from her pastor who compared it to being a meth addict and she was like "Oh actually no more sex until marriage."

If that kind of idiotic, childish fear-mongering can make her change her mind about something fairly significant in the relationship - and it should be noted again they were already having sex - that is a huge red flag and I would also say it's not fucking normal by any objective measure, for obvious reasons.

Of course the boundaries are ultimately up to her but the question here wasn't whether they were.

Click to shrink...

I was referring to the sentiment that she was somehow laying down ultimatums, despite apparently actually not wanting to get married any time soon contrary to many accusations in this thread framing this as her trying to pressure OP into proposing, when's he's even said that's not the case. I was not talking about the nature of the sermon. I don't agree with the premise of this sermon, as described by OP. However, bringing up the "they were already having sex" thing - y'all keep saying that like it matters for jack shit. Or maybe it should be noted again that according to OP she had already been having these thoughts and the pastor did not "change her mind" as if it's a black and white scenario where she felt strongly one way then the opposite the next. It bears repeating: consent can be given and withdrawn at any time for any reason. And consent given previously doesn't mean consent given forever.

 

[gig]

educate me then.

speaking of choices, my parents abandoned me for being gay. many parents abandoned their kids for being lgbt, how do you justify that choice?

Click to shrink...

The personal choice of abstaining from sex (regardless of reasoning, religious or otherwise) should always be a personal choice worth respecting, regardless of whether you understand or agree with the reasoning. It's her body.

There's no way to swing abandonment due to sexuality as a "personal choice" due to the nature of that decision, especially in regards to your own child. They made a decision that very clearly affected someone else in a negative way. I'm so sorry they did that to you; it's not justifiable.

 

[Moogle]

I believe we shouldn't use religion to slutshame women. but I'm not religious and a man, so what do I know? my cousin is catholic, isn't married and has casual sex. do I have to slutshame her now, for her own good?

Click to shrink...

what the actual fuck are you talking about and what does any of it have to do with my comment?

 

[plow]

educate me then.

speaking of choices, my parents abandoned me for being gay. many parents abandoned their kids for being lgbt, how do you justify that choice?

Click to shrink...

This is apparently not the case with OPs GF. She was raised differently.

It sucks, and as s christian myself, your parents should be ashamed and surely didn't act how christians should act.

This is totally different though. Having sex is something that you do in private. That's why it's a decision you take for yourself and not because someone tells you to. Also OPs GF thought about it a long time, it wasn't a sudden change.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I'm agnostic, my wife is Methodist and her Father is a Methodist pastor. You make it work. I go to church on holidays and stuff, it makes her family and my wife happy, and it's easy for me to do.

 

[Lakeside]

I was referring to the sentiment that she was somehow laying down ultimatums, despite apparently actually not wanting to get married any time soon contrary to many accusations in this thread framing this as her trying to pressure OP into proposing, when's he's even said that's not the case. I was not talking about the nature of the sermon. I don't agree with the premise of this sermon, as described by OP. However, bringing up the "they were already having sex" thing - y'all keep saying that like it matters for jack shit. Or maybe it should be noted again that according to OP she had already been having these thoughts and the pastor did not "change her mind" as if it's a black and white scenario where she felt strongly one way then the opposite the next. It bears repeating: consent can be given and withdrawn at any time for any reason. And consent given previously doesn't mean consent given forever.

Click to shrink...

I don't even understand what you're getting at. Of course consent can change over time but you can't pretend that it won't have a profound impact on the relationship when it happens in this way.

If sex hadn't already been a part of the relationship for what sounds like a significant period of time then the OP would have different expectations of the relationship.

OP should consider himself lucky, as this is probably a shot across the bow that can save him a lot of pain in the future.

 

[Deleted member 8741]

In my mind this isn't about having different belief systems. It's about his girlfriend's beliefs changing on a dime. Some people that I know are an atheist/methodist/episcopal, etc. However, all of these are almost always the more liberal strains of Christianity that don't alienate people who are gay, have sex before marriage, drink, etc. This is clearly not one of these faith communities.

So maybe the relationship can survive this. Great. What happens when in a few weeks her pastor tells her that LGBT people are going to hell? What happens when he demands that she believe in creationism and a 6,000 year old earth? What happens when he forces her into being a climate denier? What happens when he tells her her husband should be the head of the household and she should be submissive, but since he can't lead spiritually, she needs to pressure him into getting more engaged at church?

Again, it's not about different belief systems, it's about the KIND of belief systems. These are polar opposites of the spectrum here and are a recipe for disaster long-term.

 

[teague]

[…] if she came to that decision (or any other) on her own, came to him and shared her reasoning, thoughts, heard what he had to say even without budging my advice would be very different. But thats not what happened. She made a decision (along with a friend) based on how her pastor made her feel and then just threw it in his lap. So my advice is to think hard and long about if it's worth getting married and having kids with someone who could potentially start making choices about his family and children without his input based on the input of people not in the relationship.
[…]
But whatever, people are fine with people not in their relationship having control and input when they dont have any, keep doing you.

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I really think you and all of the posters accusing OP's girlfriend of changing her beliefs about abstinence "on a dime" and being "under the control of the pastor" are struggling to empathize at all with the girlfriend, as well as having certain beliefs about relationships that seem to be very common on the internet.

First of all, OP's girlfriend very obviously didn't change her beliefs suddenly. All of you saying "she was fine with it before and now she's suddenly not" have it 100% backwards. She probably was uncomfortable before, but because people obviously want to have sex with their S.O.'s before and the religious issues weren't as front-of-mind for her, she decided that at that time she was ok with having sex. But having gone through a similar situation myself I guarantee you that it wasn't like "100% fine" to "100% evil can't do it". The pastor wasn't controlling her or making her do something crazy, he was reminding her of a belief that she's been taught to hold her entire life. (We can all disagree with it, and I do disagree with it, but that is not at all the point). And also I would like to quote this one more time:

It bears repeating: consent can be given and withdrawn at any time for any reason. And consent given previously doesn't mean consent given forever.

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Secondly, of course outside people can have an influence on your relationship, and partners are not the sole "decision-makers" for each other. Nor do partners need to have a say in every single decision that the other makes. (Honestly, this is probably where any accusations of nice-guy are coming from). A lot of posters seem to be expressing what I would describe as an adolescent idea about relationships that are hermetically sealed, free from all outside influence, and 100% codependent. That's just not the way people work at all, and it's not how relationships work. You and your partner(s) will disagree, sometimes about deeply important stuff, and you can't expect to always come to 100% agreement. Furthermore, your partner will listen to people other than you, and you won't have "control" over them. (The heavy use of the word "control" by a lot of posters here gives up the game: it's about which man gets to control OP's girlfriend for some of you. Please don't be like this.)

 

[Deleted member 5549]

The personal choice of abstaining from sex (regardless of reasoning, religious or otherwise) should always be a personal choice worth respecting, regardless of whether you understand or agree with the reasoning. It's her body.

There's no way to swing abandonment due to sexuality as a "personal choice" due to the nature of that decision, especially in regards to your own child. They made a decision that very clearly affected someone else in a negative way. I'm so sorry they did that to you; it's not justifiable.

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I agree with you on that, it's a personal choice to abstain from sex, hell I haven't had any in 13 years (willingly). the reasoning behind it, is what makes it iffy. I know OP mentioned she was thinking about it for a while, but it's the meth comparison that pushed her over the edge.

see, if a child asked me if they could have a cookie, there's a difference if I say: "sure, go ahead!" or "sure, if you wanna get fat, then get bullied in school, friends abandoning you, where you're all alone and crying, don't come whine to me!" - if the child doesn't take the cookie it was their choice, but it was clearly manipulated in the latter scenario.

if it was me, I would make sure, that she understands having had sex before marriage won't make her impure and if they ever have consensual sex before marriage, she shouldn't feel guilty or be afraid of going to hell or something. if by the bible's rules you can get forgiveness for having sex before, you can get forgiveness later. I'd make sure, she isn't being slutshamed by her pastor and that her decisions are 100% personal well-adjusted reasons.

what the actual fuck are you talking about and what does any of it have to do with my comment?

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did you conveniently miss the crackwhore comparison made by her pastor?

This is apparently not the case with OPs GF. She was raised differently.

It sucks, and as s christian myself, your parents should be ashamed and surely didn't act how christians should act.

This is totally different though. Having sex is something that you do in private. That's why it's a decision you take for yourself and not because someone tells you to. Also OPs GF thought about it a long time, it wasn't a sudden change.

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the change happened after the pastor made the meth comparison. and again, using religion to slutshame women shouldn't be a christian thing either.

the fact that it still is a huge problem in religion, I'd say that maybe religious people need some education.

 

[Moogle]

I don't even understand what you're getting at. Of course consent can change over time but you can't pretend that it won't have a profound impact on the relationship when it happens in this way.

If sex hadn't already been a part of the relationship for what sounds like a significant period of time then the OP would have different expectations of the relationship.

OP should consider himself lucky, as this is probably a shot across the bow that can save him a lot of pain in the future.

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People are claming they take issue with an apparent lack of discussion "beforehand" and her apparently making this decision without him - a decision about her body - like if only she had told OP she was thinking of abstaining, he could've talked her down from it before she found resolve. It's naive at best. I doubt there's any discussion that could have been had that would make significant difference in the outcome of either her decision or his feelings on it, and ultimately consent is not a matter that should be compromised on. So my question was: what is there that they were apparently supposed to decide together? It impacts the relationship, obviously, and I'm not claiming otherwise. Which is why I feel the options here are straightforward: walk away if the relationship has become unfulfilling, or stay if it hasn't. Clear enough?

So all the talk about whether or not she was influenced by perspectives outside the relationship is an irrelevant distraction. Everyone is, including OP in a thread where advice from strangers about the relationship is being solicited.

 

[StrayDog]

break up and move on

 

[Deleted member 25606]

I'm done with this thread. People keep trying to bring it back to religion and sex which is not the point of my posts and has never been the point of my argument. Keep putting words in my mouth and twisting what my posts say with nothing in my posts saying what people are saying they do.

Best part is my advice to OP is to think long and hard about the fact that people not in a relationship having that much influence is a red flag and he needs to put some thought into whether he is okay with that because it could extend to other areas and everything I have seen both anecdotally and what I have seen from people who professionally work with people in relationships is that situations like that do not usually end well, I have not actually told him at all what to do other than pointing out what I have seen and learned in life and that he needs to have a serious think about it and then take his conclusions to her, not her pastor, not us, her since they are the ones in a relationship.

Somehow that makes me childish and immature, so keep going in circles finding ways to justify something that's pretty unhealthy in relationships I got better things to do with my time.

 

[astro]

So much. Apprently ERA is an "Open minded" Forum, except for religious people.
Also every Christian is indoctrinated, brainwashed and stupid and to top that of an fundamentalist.

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Religion is one of the blind spots when it comes to tolerance.

I feel the need to post again since supposedly people are being "anti-Christian" or intolerant.

It's not about the sex. It's not even really about religion beyond that's where the third party in this case is. It's about the fact that a third party has more influence on the girlfriends thought process to the point she is making relationship choices without her partners input or choice. And while people are trying to gloss it and OP said she had thought about it, anyone catch the later post saying her roommate from the same church after the same sermon forced the same decision on her boyfriend? That's a problem.

And just to show the issue, with no religion or sex. I have a cousin who got married and had a kid. His ex wife however disregarded any input from him and made all her decisons based on her parents input (to the point where she now is about to get remarried to a man that her parents handpicked and they still make all the decisions her and the guy do not) to the point it ruined their relationship and they divorced.

That's the problem. No one should be making decisons for your relationship except the people in it, as partners. Even if she came up with it on her own it would be sketchy. Not that it's wrong for someone to make a decision like this in a relationship but not like this. You go to your partner and talk as partners and work it out, not hand down ultimatums.

Again, OP doesn't even get a say in a decision his partner made (should we define partner?) and to top it off it's a decision she and her roommate made with input from a third party. Doesn't matter if it's a pastor, friend, parent, co-worker, whatever, the fact someone not in the relationship's influence not only factors in but helps decide the choice when the partner has no say is a huge red flag and a recipe for future heartbreak and disaster.

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There are always going to be things that are not even a conversation, things personally cannot budge on. This is a part of relationships. In fact, one of the main things that you consider when you choose a partner is how these things you cannot budge on align.

And many things you learn come from a "third party", that itself is not the smoking gun you think it is.

 

[Deleted member 5549]

speaking of "my body, my choice" - how is it people are upset when someone's "cheating"? how can you call it that, if it's their body, they chose to have sex with somebody else, you can't tell them what to do with their body, right?

is it because of STIs? yeah, that could be a problem. is it because it'll hurt your partner on an emotional level? yeah, I'd say that's a shitty thing to do. it's something you discuss with your partner. ideally before you get into a committed relationship. just how they should discuss it now going forward. it's not about the right to smash.

 

[Lakeside]

So all the talk about whether or not she was influenced by perspectives outside the relationship is an irrelevant distraction. Everyone is, including OP in a thread where advice from strangers about the relationship is being solicited.

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It absolutely matters that she's acting on advice from a third party. What sort of nutty decisions is she going to make down the road along these lines?

I have a friend who's mom has nothing, she lives in a trailer and is destitute. When my friend visited he gave mom $10,000 to help her out. This is a squarely middle class guy, so it wasn't chump change for him. Mom visited Church that Sunday and when the pastor gave a particularly moving plea for money, she gave the entire $10,000. When you're a non-religious person and you see that religious significant others are highly affected by the words of their religious leaders you gotta pay attention.

 

[Deleted member 7051]

So much. Apprently ERA is an "Open minded" Forum, except for religious people.
Also every Christian is indoctrinated, brainwashed and stupid and to top that of an fundamentalist.

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Religion breeds intolerance. It's not hard to figure out why some people aren't very tolerant of that. It's also not surprising that the more religious you are, the more of a dick you become.

 

[Mansa Mufasa]

It's a nightmare.

I consider myself pretty religious but more modern. I go to Church a few Sundays a month and try to live a life God would be happy with.

My Ex was not happy with that. In her eyes it made us unequally Yolked and caused so much strife between us when I wasn't going to church or volunteering for more Church related services. It can be frustrating and I wouldn't recommend it for anyone else unless they have a Partner thats okay with pursuing their own relationship with God their way while you do yours.

 

[jonamok]

Either quickly stick a ring on it, or say goodbye.

 

[Moogle]

did you conveniently miss the crackwhore comparison made by her pastor?

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I didn't miss a thing. Yet you still opted to pose your bizarre question to me as a challenge to defend the pastor's stance that I disagree with. The conclusion you drew from 'no means no' was apparently that I was taking a pro "slutshaming" stance, which is fucking hilarious, wow you really got me. But you were already a mess in this thread, and have since started drawing nonsensical comparisons to cheating, so at this point it's obvious you're not interested in a good faith discussion. Maybe you should get out of the thread if you can't handle it without veering wildly off track.

 

[Lakeside]

Religion breeds intolerance. It's not hard to figure out why some people aren't very tolerant of that. It's also not surprising that the more religious you are, the more of a dick you become.

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It's such a good point. I was just having a conversation about a family member that used to delight in telling stories about how much they (married couple) used to have dancing at gay bars.. but now she's filled her increased spare time with the Catholic Church. Now she's all about the intolerance.

She went to see Rocketman and was thoroughly offended, warning others not to go. Like WTF did you expect from this movie?

 

[Deleted member 5549]

I didn't miss a thing. Yet you still opted to pose your bizarre question to me as a challenge to defend the pastor's stance that I disagree with. The conclusion you drew from 'no means no' was apparently that I was taking a pro "slutshaming" stance, which is fucking hilarious, wow you really got me. But you were already a mess in this thread, and have since started drawing nonsensical comparisons to cheating, so at this point it's obvious you're not interested in a good faith discussion. Maybe you should get out of the thread if you can't handle it without veering wildly off track.

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unlike you making rape-comparisons with your "no means no"-agenda. yeah, sure. you got me! maybe you should leave the thread instead!

good faith discussion - coming from you? LOL

 

[plow]

Religion breeds intolerance. It's not hard to figure out why some people aren't very tolerant of that. It's also not surprising that the more religious you are, the more of a dick you become.

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Let's Counter intolerance with intolerance. That's surely a good Solution.
And while we are at it, let's presume every strict religious dude is a dick.
How nice of you :)

I don't know the fuckin Problem you have in the USA, but the christians i know are Helpful people who dedicate their Lifes going to Cambodga or Kenia to help children and people in need. But sure go on and mock every christian who has firm believes.