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Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,367
Houston, TX
Since we recently got confirmation of a 2nd season of Smash Ultimate DLC & it's looking like the Fighters Pass is gonna be all guys, I thought I should bring forward one of my longer posts from the Smash speculation thread in hopes that it raises awareness of the current problem plaguing Smash in the hopes that things can improve for next season (if the roster hasn't been decided yet).

While I respect Sakurai immensely as a developer, my main qualm with him (especially considering how the Fighters Pass is shaping up) is his seeming indifference towards representation for both women & people of color as well as his rigid-ness when it comes to his protagonists/poster children first policy. Though to be clear, when I say indifference, I mean that Sakurai's priorities are elsewhere. And the fact that he sticks so rigidly to his policy of main characters & poster children first for any given franchise doesn't help matters. The two aforementioned issues kinda bleed into each other as well. There aren't a ton of people of color to choose from, but Sakurai could make the most of what's available (Ex: Elma). An example of this for the next Smash game (beyond the aforementioned Elma) is Twintelle, who would help with Smash's issues of few women & even fewer people of color. But I can't see her getting in before ARMS poster boy Spring Man. As for how he's handled women, I spearheaded an entire thread talking about where he can improve.
It's the little things that Sakurai could do to help with the lack of women in Smash that he hasn't done. Even looking at Corrin, simply changing them to where Female Corrin is the default would go a long way (since defaults are the ones used in marketing &, in most cases, the Amiibo), but he didn't. And while you can argue that it's a general thing about Japan, I'm not too sure about that on a grand scale. Granted, you wouldn't be entirely inaccurate there, but we're seeing games like Tekken 7 & the new Guilty Gear game embracing black excellence. Even Street Fighter has been improving in its handling of trans characters since working with GLAAD to make sure they got Poison right, & it shows. This can also be extended in Capcom working with Sony's Middle Eastern distributor to get Rashid right. I want to see that kind of progress for Smash. Even Nintendo is starting to improve with their inclusion of people of color as well as LGBTQ+ characters (albeit very slowly). So far, the only black/brown character in Smash that's the default is Ganondorf. Likewise, something that Heartskips brought up is that Sakurai's growing focus on surprising inclusions has pivoted away from correcting the flaws of the existing roster. The Fighters Pass so far is proof of this, especially if the supposed SNK character is indeed Terry. It's the reason why Sakurai needs to loosen up on his policies for the sake of improved representation. Even Capcom has demonstrated more flexibility when it comes to sticking to the main characters (see Morrigan), sometimes to a fault (see the lack of Mega Man in MvC3/UMvC3). So while yes, many of the roster's choices are made with Japan in mind, Smash isn't just made for Japan. And as more fighting games improve, Smash's approach to representation will start to feel more & more dated. I only hope that Sakurai realizes this & improves things going forward. As someone who loves Smash, it's disappointing to see the series lag behind on this front when most of the other major players are making (varying degrees of) progress.

If there's one thing that I hope this thread takes away from this massive wall of text, it's this: Representation Matters. To paraphrase my personal experience on this front from another thread, some of my little cousins initially gravitated towards Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 for their Switch-playing session with me thanks to the presence of characters like Black Panther, Storm, Miles Morales, Falcon, & Luke Cage. It's something that a good chunk of fighting game developers are beginning to realize in recent years, & I hope that Sakurai (or his successor, should Sakurai call it quits after Ultimate) realizes this as well sooner rather than later (preferably with Season 2).

As an aside, what I won't fault Sakurai for is the lack of female alts for Hero, that is entire Square-Enix's fault. And going by the likes of Robin, Corrin, Inkling, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, & more, I'd imagine that Sakurai would have at least included Sophia over Solo if given the chance.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MasonADC

Member
Sep 28, 2018
416
Characters should be added into smash because Sakurai likes the character, not because he must meet a specific quota
 

Deleted member 35077

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
It is the companies that have the final say on who to gets to be in smash, not Sakurai, and more often than not they would rather pick the mc of their series than a side character.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,604
Did you forget about Kazooie? She's the main attacker, Banjo is just her ride.
 

Bulbul

Member
Nov 20, 2017
817
I don't see how adding the mascot of the company/franchise is problematic, this is very logical and recommended for fans and companies alike for wide reach.
 

Lord Vatek

Avenger
Jan 18, 2018
21,511
There are plenty of female characters they can still add who would fit and make sense. Get out of here with any "They would be forcing it" shit.
 

wholahay

Member
Dec 18, 2017
708
I don't see how adding the mascot of the company/franchise is problematic, this is very logical and recommended for fans and companies alike for wide reach.

It becomes a problem when franchise mascots always fit the same mold, which tends to be light-skinned men. Even if we're putting race and gender aside, sometimes the most interesting potential fighter isn't the dude on the box, but that's who we end up in Smash with essentially always.

Anyway, I agree strongly, OP. Thanks for putting it out there.
 

Zoantharia

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,860
Preach, OP. Not that I don't love the fighters' pass thus far but this is a huge gap that needs to be addressed
 

Mobu

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
5,932
make all season 2 character indie characters, shantae, transitor, celeste, cadence..
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,476
New Orleans
Agreed. I'd love to see more diversity in the lineup in general, even if the only character I'm *really* hoping for is the Doomslayer.
Basically I just want more representation regardless.
 
OP
OP
Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,367
Houston, TX
Agreed. I'd love to see more diversity in the lineup in general, even if the only character I'm *really* hoping for is the Doomslayer.
Basically I just want more representation regardless.
For me, I can't really bring myself to even push for Rex or Phoenix Wright considering the current lack of representation in the roster.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,476
New Orleans
For me, I can't really bring myself to even push for Rex or Phoenix Wright considering the current lack of representation in the roster.
As a PoC myself, I hear that. It's not as though we're tasked with choosing between representation and the white guys we like, but who knows how much of the former is even in the running? I question how much say the fanbase has in the grand scheme of things, even with stuff like the DLC voting in the past. Ultimately I don't think wanting both is bad, but one is a liiiiiiitle more important for the industry. I'd be okay without the Slayer if it came down to it.
 

HustleBun

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,076
The best way to go about this is to spread a short, repeatable and easy to read message that can trend and get more visibility.

Either that or start shouting to game companies with examples of female or PoC characters that you'd like to see in Smash.

Twintelle
Marina
Shantae
etc
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,016
I want Mythra from Xenoblade Chronicles to be a character in Smash, I hope they don't try to do some Rex with Pyra nonsense if they actually try to get a Xeno 2 character in the game.
 

Psychonaut

Member
Jan 11, 2018
3,207
For the record, I believe all they said was "additional DLC," so it will not necessarily be a second season or fighters pass. If that's correct, then I would assume that they are selling fighters piecemeal, which would mean that each character would NEED to be a heavy hitter capable of selling on their own. Unfortunately, the games industry... has not yielded too many female characters who could do that. I am 100% on board with the idea that Smash needs more women and (ESPECIALLY) people of color, but I'm not confident that this DLC extension will deliver on that front.
 

Swiggins

was promised a tag
Member
Apr 10, 2018
11,450
I want Mythra from Xenoblade Chronicles to be a character in Smash, I hope they don't try to do some Rex with Pyra nonsense if they actually try to get a Xeno 2 character in the game.
What if it was Rex and Pyra/Mythra as a tag-team character in the same vein as Ice-Climbers or Rosalina/Luma?

Rex could swap costumes between his diving suit and his driver pilot suit, Mythra could swap with Pyra.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,016
What if it was Rex and Pyra/Mythra as a tag-team character in the same vein as Ice-Climbers or Rosalina/Luma?

Rex could swap costumes between his diving suit and his driver pilot suit, Mythra could swap with Pyra.

I don't like Rex, I don't dislike him or anything but I just want Hikari/Mythra as a character in Smash.
 

Menx64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,774
The problem is still the lack of female protagonist or even POC in Western and Japanese media. When Sakurai said Nintendo gave him a list, what I believe is they gave him a list of companies and thus he chooses what he wants. Obviously companies are going to ask him to include their mascots rather than other characters. So it is not as easy as shopping around to add whomever I want.
I believe Elma,will be there for sure on batch 2 (Or I wish since she is great).
The other Woman joining I would be money on is 2B.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,531
With the remake being announced, she has to make it in.

latest


She was considered for Melee, so it's time for Sakurai to rectify his mistake of not choosing her.
 

Deleted member 18857

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,083
I am unreasonably unhappy they picked Terry over Nako. And I don't even like playing as her in her game, but.... she was perfect for Smash, and a girl, and an ethnic minority, and has a great theme, and was the icon for SNK during the NG era. And a SailorMoon reference
What's the point move-wise of Terry in Smash? Crack Shoot? Power Dunk? Having a MOTW costume?
 
OP
OP
Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,367
Houston, TX
The best way to go about this is to spread a short, repeatable and easy to read message that can trend and get more visibility.

Either that or start shouting to game companies with examples of female or PoC characters that you'd like to see in Smash.

Twintelle
Marina
Shantae
etc
Here are a few I thought of as I ride the bus home...
  • #RepresentationForSmash
  • #RepresentationInSmashMatters
  • #MakeSmashInclusive
 

Cryxok

Member
Oct 27, 2017
433
México
Smash is basically a gaming museum that represents whatever happened in the gaming industry (with a heavier focus on Japan). So Smash if Smash has a problem, that's because the Gaming Industry as a whole shares that problem. If more games had PoC o women protagonists, they would be in Smash. Sadly, that's not the case.

Sure, Sakurai could go out of his way to make Smash NOT reflect gaming history, but then the whole point of Smash becomes moot. Calling Sakurai "indiferent" to representation seems a bit harsh to me, as he has gone out of his way to add female alts to every character he could, as well as adding PoC alts to characters that originally had none, like Villager and Pokémon Trainer.

Could there be more? Absolutely! Do I hope for more? Yes, of course. But I believe to place the responsability on Sakurai and the Smash team is a bit off, as I honestly believe they have done what they could with what they had, specially in regards to third party characters where the owner company and Nintendo most likely have a bigger say in the matter than Sakurai himself.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,348
Do characters with both genders count? Because I can totally see the main character of Astral Chain becoming a season 2 fighter with with alts ala Corrin.
 
OP
OP
Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,367
Houston, TX
Do characters with both genders count? Because I can totally see the main character of Astral Chain becoming a season 2 fighter with with alts ala Corrin.
Preferably with the female variant as the default. Outside of Female Corrin, none of the non-default forms (Ex: Female Villager, Inkling Boy, Female Robin, Male Wii Fit Trainer, Leaf, etc.) have Amiibos. Plus the default takes priority in marketing & is what most see.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,934
CT
You're gonna get more 3rd party characters

Outside of Lara Croft and debatably Jill Valentine, there isn't really a main character or face of franchise female or minority character that actually makes sense for Smash Ultimate. At best you'll get something like the Twins from Astral Chain who are both genders.