Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,634
I went back through D2 and D3 to check interactions between Meat and malus/Fat4All/Kitsu. I think I picked up all the posts from all three related to Meat before his claim (since then it became a lot of mechanics talk0 and they are in order (I think?) below.

Overall, all three didn't care much for Meatwad at all and only started paying attention after he already gathered some attention from other players. He was a low poster and not much of a discussion point at the start though, but it's still worth noting that all three didn't really interact initially with him.

I think the one that comes off worse is Kitsu, who literally didn't mention or talk about Meat during D2, but opened up D3 saying that "the Meatwad wagon seemed convincing" despite sticking with a Maol vote. Even so, she doesn't talk about Meatwad until later when Gorlak explained how Maol had called out the late Meatwad switch vote on D2.
It reads to me like she tried to ignore the wagon on D2 but wanted some credit when the day started. When things started getting rough for Meat she took the chance with Gorlak's post to start suspecting him for real.

Fat4All though also got my attention as he shaded Meat on D2 after Gorlak questioned him for other reads, but didn't talk about him until much later on D3. Differently from Kitsu though he discussed Meat's posts and interacted with him before his fake claim came off and his posts sound sincere to me.

malus said he didn't really have much of a read on Meat during D2 when he was a topic of some discussion, and later suspected him after a reread and an updated reads list. He prodded a bit during D3 and later had that post that Kalor quoted where he asked if anyone was actually town reading Meat.
I’m not sure. Possibly Meatwad? Their posts have been kinda lacking imo, kinda feels like they’re just going along with the general vibe. coasting-ish.

not enough to throw me off maol or monkey at the moment
thanks

hmm, i need to look into Meatwad a bit more

before i dive even deeper into the Monkey hole i should prob do that first
This is sommit I kinda side-eyed from Meatwad. Sure there was plenty of justifiable reasons for any one person to vote Maol, but that doesn’t make it any more or less likely that Scum votes for them.

While I don’t think Scum would want to make their votes obvious, there’s easily a reason a Scum might want to hide amount a crown for a justifiable lynch, even if they know Maol flips Town. It’s an easy vote for Scum and Town to justify, while keeping any given train on that Town rolling along.
hmm, I’m not sure I would characterize this so much as ‘opportunistic’, VAs vote on Turmoil was only the third vote at the time, and for Day 1 play it doesn’t seem that odd for people to latch onto other smaller trains for whatever justifications.

Was there anything on Day 2/3 that sticks out to you about VA/Rage? (sorry if you already answered this).
If anything, the pushback VA got from their Day 1 pressure vote on Meatwad seems more odd then their shift away from it.
I did some rereading last night, but didn't come away with any strong new reads.

At the moment I'm probably most suspicious of Fran and VA/Zeke. Though after Maols flip I'd say Fran went up on the town list by a few points. VA had some suspicious posts and Zeke hasn't done anything yet.

I found Meatwads vote to be quite strange. It came out of nothing and without any reasoning whether it was because of the "red check" or because of Maols behaviour.

Fat4All would be next on the list. He has expressed some doubt about Monkeys claim. To me it sounds like he wants to seed some suspicion there to discredit her without fully committing.

I still have a hard time reading Kalor and Kopite. I wouldn't be surprised to find scum among them.

Fandorin has given some good insight so far. I don't agree with everything he's said, but I think his effort to solve is genuine.

Gorlak has been very active and was in my opinion the one doing most of the work to solve the game. Solid town read.

I feel pretty good about Monkey. Her role claim was too out there to be made up by scum in my opinion although I think the truth test she did last night was really unnecessary and could have been used better to get the opinion of the dead on current events.

I'm inclined to believe Kits claim. Though I could see her actually being the neutral marking Gorlak.
Speaking of marking: Any new marks today?
The VA train on D1 only contained Monkey as not confirmed town. I'd say that makes either VA or Monkey highly suspect.
I still have a hard time scum reading Monkey after D2, so for me VA looks more suspicious.


That spike on turmoil with Meat, Monkey and Kalor really sticks out and I agree we will have to look there. In my opinion Meat looks the most suspicious of the bunch since Scum would probably not want to bring a wagon too much into the lead for fear of sticking out.

Still, Monkey has her fingers everywhere it seems...

Other things of notice are the complete inoffensiveness of Kopites and Fat4Alls votes. Day1 Kopite votes Fat and sticks there until the end while Fat doesn't vote at all. Day 2 both vote Maol who was basically a foregone conclusion anyway.
Is it just me or are there too many scum reads of Meatwad for how the votes are distributed? It sounds like everyone just accepted that Meat is scum and it makes me a bit antsy.

Is anyone town reading him?
I think the interesting part of D1 is the tie between Turmoil, Maolfunction and Meatwad. At this point scum votes were probably locked in because only Turm, Mao and you still changed votes (and me and Fran but that was a tie breaker and town->town).
So we had one town wagon (Turmoil) with Monkey, VA, Meat and Kalor as unconfirmed town, one town wagon (Mao) with me and Fran as unconfirmed town and one unknown Meat wagon with you and Fandorin as unconfirmed town. I believe you and me are town which leaves the two latter wagons with only Fran and Fandorin respectively as potential scum.
If Meatwad is scum Fran is almost certainly scum as well, especially considering his switch from Meatwad to Maol shortly before the stalemate.

Unaccounted for are Fat4All, Kits and Kopite who voted off wagon or didn't vote at all.

I'll have to think about something so give me a minute.


Fran pushed hard for a Mao lunch on D1 and D2. I don't see scum advocating that adamantly for a town lunch.

look at this progression from VA over the span of only a few posts






Wants to vote Turmoil to chase wagon.
Doesn't want to vote Turmoil because of the wagon.
Votes Meatwad because no wagon
Unvotes because people told him his vote was bad.
Then wants to vote Turmoil again because of the wagon
The arguments to vote for Meatwad seemed more convincing when I caught up with the game this morning but my brain's still in too much of a haze to go back and quote them individually.
Okay now that I'm back-- the point was that... I removed "me" from the modifier of "pocketing"? Meaning, "Pockety". Meaning, attatching on to easy things and not doing a lot of substance and just kind of stringing the game along while putting in the work to look like you're working. These repeated assertions that my game theory surrounding my role is baseless is part of that, because you and I both know I have a great deal of substance to base my conclusions on. Outside of this discussion, however, you've seemed more towny to me as of late.

The fact that you do not agree with my working set of facts does not mean that they don't exist. However, your stubborn insistance to ignore all of that in favour of throwing your hands in the air and saying "I don't know, man" and telling us we should do the same-- that's not dealing with game mechanics, that's flipping the table over and telling everyone else to pick up the mess.

That being said, given the current discussions of the Day (INCLUDING things that you've contributed to), this discussion doesn't seem to have much merit as far as game solving goes. When we actually have a new theory or a new idea, we can come back to it. Right now we're just discussing why we aren't working from literally nothing. That's... Kinda weird, to me. I honestly do not see the point of it.



Damn, this is a good catch. Makes me a bit more suspicious of Meatwad.

____

Dunno what to think about Fat's claim. It's kind of weird coming after Mao's roleswap yesterday. Perhaps the most powerful member of scum has some kind of X-Shot role adjusting ability designed to make it easier for them to win the game? F4A seems to be really quiet outside of a few small instances. I can't tell if that's just due to IRL circumstances or an attempt to lay low. Laying low almost makes sense with such a Town power, but if it's an important Town power I don't see why outing yourself like this wouldn't make yourself a heavy target for NK's. I suppose, if F4A was telling the truth, that power role means he's not a cop or a doctor and thus not necessarily the role Scum would need to worry about the most.

This, however, brings me to a reason I was hesitant to reveal my role D2 even though I wound up doing it. The more roles out there, the easier it is for Scum to pinpoint the Doc or Cop. (DocCop? DogCop! No. Dammit, brain.) However, at this point, the cop's had two N's to give us checks, and I hope that they haven't hit anyone who's died and that they've left behind some good breadcrums. Mmm. Breadcrums. Anyone suddenly just get really hungry?
Yes.

I'm an easy target. I'm visible, you've got a fun little coincidence in your corner, and you are using my absence to try and factor these into your decision to drive votes away from Monkey.

Your decision to do this isn't based on new information. There is no new information here! I didn't make a new vote, my vote's been on Monkey for ages. You're reacting to the amplified pressure on Monkey and trying to swerve on the mere assumption that I'm Scum based on the fact that you, a heavy poster, was targeted two times in one night (Shocker).

The only thing that changed was that I, another similarly active poster, mentioned they were going to bed. It's much easier for you to push the narrative that I'm scum so you must vote for meatwad(?????) when I'm not actually here to defend myself or point out that we've litigated this fact before.

This is an exceptionally bold move, and scum knows they're going to be in lylo tomorrow if they convince Town to lynch fellow Town. That and the fact that this is a bastard game, right now is the point where Scum might make bold moves. That, and the game hasn't been doing much moving over the past two or three irl days, so I predict scum might be getting overeager to get on with it.
Ding ding ding.

Claims are for tomorrow. Claiming now won't guarantee a change in votes, it will give Scum more power to choose who to NK tonight and make lylo more effective for them.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,634
I went back through D2 and D3 to check interactions between Meat and malus/Fat4All/Kitsu. I think I picked up all the posts from all three related to Meat before his claim (since then it became a lot of mechanics talk0 and they are in order (I think?) below.

Overall, all three didn't care much for Meatwad at all and only started paying attention after he already gathered some attention from other players. He was a low poster and not much of a discussion point at the start though, but it's still worth noting that all three didn't really interact initially with him.

I think the one that comes off worse is Kitsu, who literally didn't mention or talk about Meat during D2, but opened up D3 saying that "the Meatwad wagon seemed convincing" despite sticking with a Maol vote. Even so, she doesn't talk about Meatwad until later when Gorlak explained how Maol had called out the late Meatwad switch vote on D2.
It reads to me like she tried to ignore the wagon on D2 but wanted some credit when the day started. When things started getting rough for Meat she took the chance with Gorlak's post to start suspecting him for real.

Fat4All though also got my attention as he shaded Meat on D2 after Gorlak questioned him for other reads, but didn't talk about him until much later on D3. Differently from Kitsu though he discussed Meat's posts and interacted with him before his fake claim came off and his posts sound sincere to me.

malus said he didn't really have much of a read on Meat during D2 when he was a topic of some discussion, and later suspected him after a reread and an updated reads list. He prodded a bit during D3 and later had that post that Kalor quoted where he asked if anyone was actually town reading Meat.
If everyone can input on this, please. I think reading back on Meat is key here.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,750
With those three posters, I've already said what I want to with Malus but for the other 2, Fat4all feels like town, even with those posts that you collected. Kits I'm more wary on but I don't think their posts about Meatwad are too unusual. Especially when Meatwad's interactions/posts about the two of them weren't particularly damning.
 

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
4,360
Looking at day 1 votes.

I don't think Meatwad is the right lynch here. Feels like scared town. People were ignoring him until I mentioned him being a low hanging fruit. Fran got the ball rolling in #320/21, which is giving me pause about him (fran) at least something to note later. Who has played with Meatwad before? Fantomas you're always a sucker for meta.

Vincent though, let's see how things develop.
I wouldn't vote Meatwad. If Meatie is scum it'll come out; with this group I don't think he could hide for too long. Too many sharp eyes here.
After this meat train loses steam.
Nothing happening? ok.

Vote: meatwad

3 way tie.
Why cause a tie here gor? Especially if you felt meat was a “bad lynch”

Also forgot if you mentioned it or not, why did you come forward saying you were blocked?
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,750
I had forgotten about that Meatwad post from Gorlak, despite bringing it up myself yesterday I think it was. Monkey also tried to discourage the Meatwad vote but they wouldn't have known anything. So that's more damning for Gorlak.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
With those three posters, I've already said what I want to with Malus but for the other 2, Fat4all feels like town, even with those posts that you collected. Kits I'm more wary on but I don't think their posts about Meatwad are too unusual. Especially when Meatwad's interactions/posts about the two of them weren't particularly damning.
Okay so

-scum know i'm town
-scum can see some writing on the wall for me tonight
-How do I put this? It would put Scum in a favourable light when I flip town if they doubted the lynch openly when it was convenient for them to do so. I have seen it happen countless times.

Vote: Kalor
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
I'm not gonna lie, my whole reason for that vote is super internal and thus not made to convince anyone else which goes against the point of mafia and I can see how some might say it's a bad play, but i go where my heart takes me
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,634
Gorlak (Pushed Meatwad to claim and I could see a case where they both agreed to do this in advance in a potential scum chat)

Potential scum


Malus (Barely any mentions of Kopite, except when they quoted them and answered stuff. The distance between both players feels like an intentional seperation to avoid being seen together)
Kopite (Same reasoning as Malus, though to a slightly lesser extreme.)

So between those two people, I'm going with Malus for now because of their votes. Meatwad was already on the Maol vote, albeit at the end, so I sort of doubt they would put two scum on that vote. If they did, then it doesn't look good for Kopite. But Malus was nowhere neat the Meatwad vote, they tried to push the same Zeke/Vincent lynch that Meatwad did, and mentioned being slightly wary of Meatwad on day 1 then that just disappeared afterward.

Also this post just feels extremely coy for day 1.



And this



Vote: Malus
With those three posters, I've already said what I want to with Malus but for the other 2, Fat4all feels like town, even with those posts that you collected. Kits I'm more wary on but I don't think their posts about Meatwad are too unusual. Especially when Meatwad's interactions/posts about the two of them weren't particularly damning.
Kalor, you put malus and Kopite as potential scum after your reread mostly due to the lack of interactions and wishy washy stance towards Meatwad (the Kopite mention in the malus sum up is a typo right?). Fat4All and Kits had that same distance from Meat like I mentioned in my last post, at least a lot more than Kopite apparently.
 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,024
Switzerland
Alright here's some reads on Kalor, Zeke and Kopite. On mobile so I hope the quotes don't get all messed up.

Kalor:
Not sure what to make of that red check
. I don't see scum Monkey lying about it but the hatred stuff throws it up in the air where I'm willing to believe a fake red check due to role weirdness. Even if it'd be awfully convenient that both happened on the same night.



Do you have a reason to reveal them, like some notice of what they did?
Immediately brings fake red check up. Maybe he already knows Maos alignment?
Oh shit. I was skimming through to catch up before I left for the day so I completely missed that. That role seems plausible. Don't have the time to post anything more substantial right now but it seems fine.
Is then fine with the updated role.
So, I'm conflicted on this because my role changed overnight.

I was vanilla before and the power I got doesn't make sense if they swapped it from scum to town. Unless they thought it was worthless or chose two town to swap between but I guess I don't see scum or anyone being able to swap roles twice in a row. That seems too powerful.
Vanilla claim is still suspect since it's the easiest claim to make.
I'm here and caught up. These two role claims are messy put together. When I saw Meatwads reveal, it seemed possible but the rarer kind of hider compared to whats usually done in this community. Frans claim seemed opportunistic to try and pin suspicion on Meatwad and get a lynch there. Maybe it read differently in real time but catching up and the proximity of the reveals, Frans feels too sudden. But if Fran was scum trying to get Meatwad lynched, the primary question is then of motive. Is there another lynch candidate who is at risk who is scum and they want to get town Meatwad lynched instead (the candidate probably being Monkey in this case)? Do they see the end in sight already and want to guarantee a town lynch? Or Fran is genuine and the timing and handling of the reveal was just awkward.
Shade at Fran for his commuter claim.

All in all there's a few things that stand out. He brings up a possible fake red check when Monkey first claimed, possibly because he already knew Mao would flip town. Then there's the Vanilla claim which is the easiest claim to make. He also doubted Frans commuter claim and painted it as throwing suspicion on Meat.

EzekelRAGE:

spent a long time debating Frans commuter claim.
Yea it’s possible. Commuter is an easy role for scum to fake.
Idk what his plan is. Both could be scum and this is a tactic to distance themselves.

I don’t like him responding to you how his commuting ability be forced though. Gives too much info.

I honestly don’t see the reason in coming forward with the commuter claim at all.
Even tries to link Meat and Fran, possibly when he realized Meat was a lost cause.
My thoughts too. Looking at the claim, why didn’t he ask nat when he asked gorlak? Gor could lie either way.

When he saw meats claim, why not ask nat b4hand about notifications b4 Fran claimed himself. Nat didn’t clear anything up and Fran claimed for nothing.
His reaction when Monkey suggests the scum team could swing the vote with a concentrated effort. Possible reference that there are only 2 scum?
Meh why waste time waiting for 2mrw, let’s claim now
Fishing for role claims

I came away feeling worse about Zeke here. He questions and throws a lot of suspicion around, but we havent seen a solid read from him. He spent a lot of time discrediting Fran after his claim and even tried to link him as possible scum mate for Meat before he even flipped.

Kopite:
No quote really caught my attention. His interactions have felt solid and I liked the question he asked and how he presented his reads. All in all quite inoffensive and I lean town here.

So of those three I feel the worst about Zeke again. Maybe Kalor is just townier to me because I tend to townread people that scum read me but whatever.
Vote: EzekelRAGE
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,750
Kalor, you put malus and Kopite as potential scum after your reread mostly due to the lack of interactions and wishy washy stance towards Meatwad (the Kopite mention in the malus sum up is a typo right?). Fat4All and Kits had that same distance from Meat like I mentioned in my last post, at least a lot more than Kopite apparently.
I know I did but I thought Malus and Kopite felt more distant than the other two when I was looking into it earlier.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,750
Okay so

-scum know i'm town
-scum can see some writing on the wall for me tonight
-How do I put this? It would put Scum in a favourable light when I flip town if they doubted the lynch openly when it was convenient for them to do so. I have seen it happen countless times.

Vote: Kalor
This isn't something I'm suddenly starting to do now. I've townread you most of this game. You would have a point if that wasn't the case.
 
OP
OP
Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,011
==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start

Kalor (2 votes)
Gorlak - #1,856 #1,860
Kitsunelaine - #1,892 #1,897
Gorlak - #2,143
Kitsunelaine - #2,157

EzekelRAGE (1 votes)
Gorlak - #2,080 #2,143
malus - #2,160

malus (1 votes)
Kalor - #2,103

Gorlak (0 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #1,928 #2,058
Kitsunelaine - #2,083 #2,157

Kitsunelaine (0 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #2,058 #2,066

Fran (0 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #2,066 #2,083

Not voting: Fat4all, Fran, Kopite, EzekelRAGE, Fandorin

Post Counts:
Fat4all: 66 Kitsunelaine: 59 Gorlak: 44 Fran: 37 EzekelRAGE: 34 Fandorin: 31 Kopite: 19 Kalor: 19 malus: 18

Current Countdown:



Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,634
I don't want to leave the malus/Fat4All/Kitsu unresolved and I'm surprised others don't feel that way. Can everyone quickly explain their thoughts on this and who would they vote out?

Right now, I'm solid on Fat4All being town out of those three. I don't want to get stuck on a technicality, but I don't think malus checked Fat4All this phase, I'm just not sure if that means he is scum for doing that. Kitsu came off bad after my reread due to her stance on Meatwad, but I just don't see scum fake claiming on D2 like she did.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,634
We are 3 hours from EoD and we barely any votes down. I thought things would've been clearer after a scum flip so I'm bothered that these claims messed up the game flow.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,634
Alright here's some reads on Kalor, Zeke and Kopite. On mobile so I hope the quotes don't get all messed up.

Kalor:

Immediately brings fake red check up. Maybe he already knows Maos alignment?

Is then fine with the updated role.

Vanilla claim is still suspect since it's the easiest claim to make.

Shade at Fran for his commuter claim.

All in all there's a few things that stand out. He brings up a possible fake red check when Monkey first claimed, possibly because he already knew Mao would flip town. Then there's the Vanilla claim which is the easiest claim to make. He also doubted Frans commuter claim and painted it as throwing suspicion on Meat.

EzekelRAGE:

spent a long time debating Frans commuter claim.


Even tries to link Meat and Fran, possibly when he realized Meat was a lost cause.


His reaction when Monkey suggests the scum team could swing the vote with a concentrated effort. Possible reference that there are only 2 scum?

Fishing for role claims

I came away feeling worse about Zeke here. He questions and throws a lot of suspicion around, but we havent seen a solid read from him. He spent a lot of time discrediting Fran after his claim and even tried to link him as possible scum mate for Meat before he even flipped.

Kopite:
No quote really caught my attention. His interactions have felt solid and I liked the question he asked and how he presented his reads. All in all quite inoffensive and I lean town here.

So of those three I feel the worst about Zeke again. Maybe Kalor is just townier to me because I tend to townread people that scum read me but whatever.
Vote: EzekelRAGE
What do you think of the Meatwad push on Zeke last phase?
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,634
What about your vote? Still trying to decide?
I would like to hear about everyone's opinion about the malus/Fat/Kitsu discussion, yeah. I'm townreading Zeke this phase and there's zero resistance to your lynch - which is one of the reasons why I think that scum!malus fakeclaimed this phase.
 

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,469
Let's see what Meatwad had to say about players still alive:

Malus tagged him when the game started:

Hey thanks for mentioning me, I completely forgot the game started yesterday and the site has been pretty bad about alerts from this thread even though I have it set to "Watch" ugh. Also I work all day on the weekends so I wasn't going to be active yesterday anyway. But I'll be fully engaged now
Fando accused him of lurking:

Funny how this is the second time you come up immediatly after being @'d. That's some hardcore lurking.
Says that Fat4all could be a lynch candidate:

Fat4All could be a lynch candidate sure, I haven't seen much from him and he's a strong neutral for me at this point. Mao I'm not sure, the whole RNG voting to drum up discussion thing is weird for sure, He claims to not have any real leads because it's early game, But I feel like dropping a random vote isn't the best play. I could possibly see myself voting for Mao this phase just for that tbh.

I hold back early game mostly because I'm just not that confident with little info to go on. I prefer to watch people and see what they say and how they react to things and then try to relate these things when stuff starts happening. If that makes sense. I kinda hate day 1 for this reason lol
Says that Kits could be a neutral, then he explained that he meant null:

With regards to Kits she's solid neutral in my eyes. Sure her vote for you raised eyebrows but she backed it up sufficiently and I haven't seen anything else from her so far that registers on my scum radar
This is how Meatwad reacted when Kitsu was banned:

Says that Kitsu role could be related to the handprints:

In my opinion something like marking people with a handprint sounds like a neutral role and it makes sense to me that Kits role is designed to find this neutral.

That’s assuming Kits is telling the truth about her role of course.
Read list. Kitsune is a slight town, Fat4all is null, Gorlak is null, Fando is slight scum. Didn't talked about VA, Kalor, Malus or Kopite:

Ok going to put down some reads while they're on my mind, While I'm trying to do my schoolwork

Monkey: Her Roleclaim is odd for sure, but she's been engaging people. answering questions in a way that seems honest to me, and despite coming in with a red check on Mao hasn't pushed for a turbo against him. Monkey is a strong town lean imo

Fantomas, has been very active and genuinely seems like he wants to solve the game, Strong town lean

Kitsulane, not sure, her roleclaim is strange, I'm not sure what to make of it to be honest, she seems genuine otherwise. Slight town lean

Fat4All Seems to be a Blarg style player, Funny but difficult to read. Null

Fran, Fran is historically hard for me to read. He makes some good arguments and appears helpful but the last time I thought I had him pegged I turned out to be wrong Fran lean

Gorlak came off suspicious EOD 1 with the Fran vote and his animus towards Monkey and Fran but seems to be genuinely engaged now. Null

Fandoran, has been intent on tunneling me for some reason. I would like an explanation of why out of all the players in this game he's so focused on me. Has yet to present a solid case. Kinda comes off as trying to get a train going on a weak player. Slight scum lean.

Mao, I don't think I buy Mao's claim of being a doomed townie and then suddenly having his role change to be hated townie. I don't know why he claimed that in the first place but it seems like he realized his claim wouldn't work if he didn't die so he had to change it. He's played mostly defensively and hasn't shown much interest in scum hunting. He hasn't done anything to make me think the red check Monkey received is a mistake. Scum lean

Others: I'll have to go back and reread their posts to come up with a solid lead. There are some people that have fallen into my blind spot, So that's all my reads for now
Says that he would vote for Kalor, Kopite or Malus is he wasn't voting Maol:

Yeah if I couldn't vote for Mao I would go for a low info player such as Kalor, Kopite or Malus. They've shown up so infrequently this phase that they've pretty much been in my blind spot as I've tried to keep up with the major goings on and that concerns me. I'm not going to full on accuse anyone of trying to fly under the radar but they have been under my radar, I'm going to be keeping an eye on them going forward.
Accusses Fando of sheeping:

That's fair, there's a lot of posts in this thread and I think that makes it more likely that somebody will already have said something that I am thinking. I certainly don't want to start obsessing over what other people are saying and then try and tailor my thoughts to be different because that wouldn't be genuine on my part.

Now if you want to talk about sheeping, look at Fandorin, who basically just dropped a vote on me because "Others were thinking it" I'd like Fandorin to lay out his case against me instead of look like he's just following where the wind happens to be blowing in order to blend in. When I drop my vote for the day it won't be a vote influenced by what others are thinking that's for sure.
Says that Fando tunnel is opportunistic and that Zeke was wishy-washy:

Real quick

Fandorin, His tunneling of me seems fake and opportunistic
EzekelRAGE, Vincent was very wishy-washy previously, like he just wanted to blend in.

I'm gonna go back a re-read a bunch of stuff when I get the time to make better reads, but this is what I'm feeling at the moment
Says that Vincent has been going after safe wagons and playing safe:

Same could be said for Vincent. In fact I went back and your predecessor in your role was all over the place and seemed like he wanted to be present and not noticed. Also Vincent wanted to find "safe" wagons. When he voted me D1 He admitted he had zero justification for it and then switched his vote to Turmoil when he recieved pushback on my vote.

Then he spent most of day 2 talking to Monkey about her role and meekly trying to push Fran and Mao before abandoning that line towards day end. Vincent spent the game trying to play it safe and made no bold moves or did anything that would get him noticed. Which reads as anti-town to me

So just putting that out there
Suspects Zeke:

I need to catch up with things and look at some more people, but right now I'm feeling Zeke
More Zeke/VA:

I mean I made decisions and stuck to them. I didn't just try to pick trains that seemed convenient. I decided who I was going to vote for, explained why I was going to vote for them and stuck to it.

Vincent, can't claim the same
Scum leans are Zeke and Fando. Says that Fando could be the neutral that Kitsune has to find and that his wincon is lunching him:

After going through everything my top two scum leans are EzekelRAGE and Fandorin. Rage's play has been better since he took over granted but Vincent had been had been all over the place and seemed to be more opportunistic rather than looking to solve the game.

Fandorin, There has been something off about him this entire time and now I know what it is. If you look back at Fandorin's posts he does a decent job of making it look like he's trying to solve the game but from day 1 he begins tunneling me and doesn't let up. In fact he never comes up with any other serious scum reads. He has a big reads post in the middle of the thread where I am the only one who is scum to him, and the only times he votes he votes for me.

I don't know why he decided to fixate on me so much, but a townie genuinely trying to solve the game wouldn't just zero in on a single player to this degree and not have at least one or two other equally viable suspects.

My guess is Fandorin is the Neutral that Kits is looking for and his win condition is to get me lynched. Only thing that explains his tunneling imo.
Calls Zeke opportunistic:

Not having any real reads of his own and trying to follow the crowd is very opportunistic
Would vote Zeke over Kalor:

I'm leaning towards Zeke tbh
Says that Kalor is not his scum partner or connected to him:

For the record, Kalor is not connected to me or in any way my scum partner
Votes Fandorin:

 

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
4,360
Alright here's some reads on Kalor, Zeke and Kopite. On mobile so I hope the quotes don't get all messed up.

Kalor:

Immediately brings fake red check up. Maybe he already knows Maos alignment?

Is then fine with the updated role.

Vanilla claim is still suspect since it's the easiest claim to make.

Shade at Fran for his commuter claim.

All in all there's a few things that stand out. He brings up a possible fake red check when Monkey first claimed, possibly because he already knew Mao would flip town. Then there's the Vanilla claim which is the easiest claim to make. He also doubted Frans commuter claim and painted it as throwing suspicion on Meat.

EzekelRAGE:

spent a long time debating Frans commuter claim.


Even tries to link Meat and Fran, possibly when he realized Meat was a lost cause.


His reaction when Monkey suggests the scum team could swing the vote with a concentrated effort. Possible reference that there are only 2 scum?

Fishing for role claims

I came away feeling worse about Zeke here. He questions and throws a lot of suspicion around, but we havent seen a solid read from him. He spent a lot of time discrediting Fran after his claim and even tried to link him as possible scum mate for Meat before he even flipped.

Kopite:
No quote really caught my attention. His interactions have felt solid and I liked the question he asked and how he presented his reads. All in all quite inoffensive and I lean town here.

So of those three I feel the worst about Zeke again. Maybe Kalor is just townier to me because I tend to townread people that scum read me but whatever.
Vote: EzekelRAGE
1. I didn’t try to link meat and Fran.
2. I questioned Fran’s commuter claim because it didn’t make sense for him to come forward at all. I didn’t discredit him, I grilled him on it. You also miss where I grilled meat, and I don’t mean bbq 😂😂😂.

3. Response to monkey: that “lol” was at how unlikely and bad of scum for it would be for them to switch votes last minute to save meat.

4. If I was trying to save meat, I could’ve went onto monkey at any point and justified it.

5. You had the opportunity to ck me.
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,711
Between Malus, Kits and Fats I think from town lean to scum lean it’s:

Malus> Fat4All —> Kits. I’m not sure if Fats was the most logical target for Doggo though

I think there’s scum between Kits and Kalor and right now I’m voting

Vote: Kitsunelaine

Poor target selection, little interest in solving the game when it doesn’t involved herself and obvious overlap with Malus. The elimination of one neutral also indicates Kits claimed role is probably to find scum, in which case why didn’t scum NK her especially when she was widely townread earlier in the game? She also claimed early because she wanted to make a more informed decision on who to target and ended up not listening to anyone and targeted mostly townread players.
 

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,469
Rereading Meatwad Zeke/VA and Fando were his biggest targets. He discussed both of them for a long time.

Barely talked about Malus, Kopite and Fat4all.

There is a weird post at the end where he says that Kalor is not his scum partner. It seems like bait (unless he was playing 4D chess).

Says that Kitsune's role makes sense, then says that it's strange and ends up in a town lean.

I would rank them by their interactions with Meatwad:

Zeke seems town. He really tried to get him lynched.

Kalor seems bait.

I think the most suspicious here would be Kitsune.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,750
Oops I meant vanilla. And yeah I meant at the start
Putting aside the fact the answer involves me, role madness games can definitely have vanilla players. It makes a bit more sense in a game like this where a role like Monkeys exists so it isn't always overriding existing power roles. And it's harder to balance a smaller game like this if everyone has a power role.
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,711
Putting aside the fact the answer involves me, role madness games can definitely have vanilla players. It makes a bit more sense in a game like this where a role like Monkeys exists so it isn't always overriding existing power roles. And it's harder to balance a smaller game like this if everyone has a power role.
I know, my point is that at the start of the game 2 of upon had effectively the same role which shouldn’t happen in role madness. Fran then said that being a backup Fat4All can’t be considered vanilla
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,711
I agree that Meat and Fando aren’t aligned. I also think that from their interactions, Meat is more likely aligned with Kalor than VA/Zeke
 
OP
OP
Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,011
==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start

Kitsunelaine (2 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #2,058 #2,066
Kopite - #2,178
Fran - #2,183

Kalor (2 votes)
Gorlak - #1,856 #1,860
Kitsunelaine - #1,892 #1,897
Gorlak - #2,143
Kitsunelaine - #2,157

EzekelRAGE (1 votes)
Gorlak - #2,080 #2,143
malus - #2,160

malus (1 votes)
Kalor - #2,103

Gorlak (0 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #1,928 #2,058
Kitsunelaine - #2,083 #2,157

Fran (0 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #2,066 #2,083

Not voting: Fat4all, EzekelRAGE, Fandorin

Post Counts:
Fat4all: 66 Kitsunelaine: 62 Gorlak: 44 Fran: 42 EzekelRAGE: 36 Fandorin: 35 Kopite: 24 Kalor: 23 malus: 18

Current Countdown:



Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,750
Zeke not voting D2 makes sense since they replaced in late. Doesn't excuse D3 though.
 

Fat4all

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,597
here
@Fat4all, your thoughts?
I’m kind of doubting my own gut on malus. It seems like when I claimed I was certain I had caught them out mechanically, but now I’m not so sure. Them seemingly having a bit of a change of heart on Frans motivations following Frans claim on Day 3 makes me think they could be telling the truth about their role (either that or they were already planning their claim the next day).

I’m having some doubts about Kits as we get closer to EoD. It kind of seems like they want to be turned to prove a point but I dunno if I buy it all that much. They’ve been poking around just as much as anyone else while saying “well just flip me” at the same time. Kinda feels like its being played up a bit.

I think there is a decent chance either malus or Kits is lying/bluffing, at this moment I’mI think it is more likely to be Kitsunelaine.The ‘call my bluff’ vibe may just be theatrical, but combined with what little has resultedfrom their claim/targets and the like, it may just be an attempt to seem more sincere. If one were to flip, I feel Kits is the better option of the two.

Vote: Kitsunelaine
 
OP
OP
Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,011
==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start

Kitsunelaine (3 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #2,058 #2,066
Kopite - #2,178
Fran - #2,183
Fat4all - #2,194

malus (2 votes)
Kalor - #2,103
Fandorin - #2,187

Kalor (2 votes)
Gorlak - #1,856 #1,860
Kitsunelaine - #1,892 #1,897
Gorlak - #2,143
Kitsunelaine - #2,157

EzekelRAGE (1 votes)
Gorlak - #2,080 #2,143
malus - #2,160

Gorlak (0 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #1,928 #2,058
Kitsunelaine - #2,083 #2,157

Fran (0 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #2,066 #2,083

Not voting: EzekelRAGE

Post Counts:
Fat4all: 67 Kitsunelaine: 62 Gorlak: 44 Fran: 44 Fandorin: 38 EzekelRAGE: 36 Kalor: 25 Kopite: 24 malus: 18

Current Countdown:



Click here to go to the Vote Tool!