• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
My thoughts on Monkey right now, is that opening the second day immediately with a red check and no full role claim is an incredibly bold move. It's a gambit that could easily backfire and if I were scum, not something I would attempt. So I'm inclined to give Monkey the benefit of the doubt for the time being that she's being truthful. That leaves Mao who wasn't looking to good at the end of the day yesterday jumping on the Fran wagon.

Mao what exactly has you convinced that Fran is scum?
This is like the exact oppposite of my take on the pre-typed post, but sure.
No particular order, other than where their name was on the vote tool lol.

I wasn't a fan of any Meatwad voters honestly, I thought his contributions felt a lot better as we got closer to EoD, which was when your vote came in on him. You also stated that you wanted to keep it there here about an hour before EoD:

It was just not aligned with how I was viewing things, so it was naturally suspicious to me.
His contributions got better on EoD since he started catching some heat (my vote included) and they were basically zero before then. I still think Meatwad's vote on turmoil (post below) is the worst of the bunch and the fact it didn't even get a mention from you on your analysis is actually weird since you're usually very through on vote analysis.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,358
here
If it's a town who hands out the hate modifiers, what's stopping them from not handing them out at all?

Would they be forced to hand them out each night?
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,009
Morning, just got caught up.

I think Mao's suggestion that Monkey faked a red checked and put a hated modifier on him is very unlikely, a red check is more than enough to get someone lunched, Scum would have saved that role for later for sure.

As to what actually happened last night, yeah there could've been switches/other shenanigans but we'll have to make the high percentage play and in this case that's lunching Mao. Before that though I'd like more clarity on Monkey's role, as she's indicated she want's to discuss more of it as well?
 

Meatwad

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,653
USA
This is like the exact oppposite of my take on the pre-typed post, but sure.

Well Monkey has been very active and is also trying to be fair to Mao by going over every possibility, which just leads me to town read her more. Mao on the other hand hasn't been making much sense. I'm not following the logic on me and Monkey being scum together
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
His contributions got better on EoD since he started catching some heat (my vote included) and they were basically zero before then. I still think Meatwad's vote on turmoil (post below) is the worst of the bunch and the fact it didn't even get a mention from you on your analysis is actually weird since you're usually very through on vote analysis.
He explained that Turmoil was who he found sketchiest, and reiterated it by EoD. The overall behavior seemed fine to me because he was taking a firm stance and wasn't being wishy-washy with his reads or anything in my opinion.

I should probably try to get a better read list put together, but I'm not sure if I'll have time before tomorrow evening.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Absolutely true. So here's where I am on it (and then I gotta step away for a bit):

OR there's shenanigans with my role (which IS possible here)
but that still requires a second person targeting Maol


So in any scenario with town Maol there's at least two people on him and it wasn't Ket, who didn't seem to have the best feelings about him, so at least one other person targeting him for reasons unknown.

To my eye, the most likely scenario is scum Maol but I'm not willing to throw down the gauntlet on a check in a bastard game, even when it's my check.
Only small issue I have is on bolded point. I understood that a modifier of your role could mess with the results and that would happen regardless of any other action as in it's actually part of your own role. Is this the possibility your considering

If it's a town who hands out the hate modifiers, what's stopping them from not handing them out at all?

Would they be forced to hand them out each night?
Not sure I follow you, but I've seen town PRs that have "hateful" and "loved" X-shot modifiers, which could be my guess in this,.
Well Monkey has been very active and is also trying to be fair to Mao by going over every possibility, which just leads me to town read her more. Mao on the other hand hasn't been making much sense. I'm not following the logic on me and Monkey being scum together
Me neither, honestly. I was just considering how differently people react to pre-typed posts after your response.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
This is like the exact oppposite of my take on the pre-typed post, but sure.

His contributions got better on EoD since he started catching some heat (my vote included) and they were basically zero before then. I still think Meatwad's vote on turmoil (post below) is the worst of the bunch and the fact it didn't even get a mention from you on your analysis is actually weird since you're usually very through on vote analysis.
I just realized I forgot to post the Meatwad quote I referred here:

Fantomas is absolutely right, This is no time to be squeamish

Vote: turmoil7

Oh yeah that felt good
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,358
here
oh wait, I was confused here

I thought the 'Hated' thing made them easier to lynch AND made them appear as scum

that's my bad, sorry
 

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
so they are giving scum things that make them read as scum?

why bother, they will ALREADY read as scum

Who says that it's to make it easier to be read as scum?

A hated modifier makes a player easier to lunch. If a townie has that power they could target a scum read and make easier lunching them and to avoid scum trying protecting them.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,358
here
Who says that it's to make it easier to be read as scum?

A hated modifier makes a player easier to lunch. If a townie has that power they could target a scum read and make easier lunching them and to avoid scum trying protecting them.
i was confused, I thought the modifier also made them appear as scum
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
malus is the only player that didn't check in the day so far.

I'm asking why a Town would willingly hand out things that might make other Town look like Scum

Scum would aready read as Scum
i was confused, I thought the modifier also made them appear as scum
I was getting really confused was well lol
I explained my reasoning for Turmoil prior to that post. That's why I didn't catch heat. It wasn't some random asspull of a vote because I needed to vote
Those were your posts prior to that:
Hey thanks for mentioning me, I completely forgot the game started yesterday and the site has been pretty bad about alerts from this thread even though I have it set to "Watch" ugh. Also I work all day on the weekends so I wasn't going to be active yesterday anyway. But I'll be fully engaged now
Would've been quite the twist if that was how GOT S8 actually went down
Da,n I'm over here doing my homework lol, I mean it's early game so I'm feeling pretty neutral towards everyone right now. I guess the biggest thing that sticks out to me is Turmoil trying to make Monkey x Fran a thing. I certainly don't see anything fake about their discussions. So it does seem a bit forced on Turmoil's part. But that's the best I got now. I don't really excel at the early game
I was actually reading the thread and was about to post when I got @, I swear it's a coincidence
So I take it that that quick mention of turmoil, which was actually your first in game though, was your reasoning to the vote then? It really does read to me like you wanted to put a vote down just for the sake of it.
 

Meatwad

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,653
USA
So I take it that that quick mention of turmoil, which was actually your first in game though, was your reasoning to the vote then? It really does read to me like you wanted to put a vote down just for the sake of it.

I felt uneasy about Turmoil and I put a vote on him. I wasn't even sure I was going to stick with that vote when I put it down but Turmoil then proceeded to do nothing to make me feel better about him as the day progressed so I stood firm.
 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,947
So I went over Monkey again last night and came away with a pretty solid town read. Her kind of non committal red check has me a bit worried but at this point I'd rather lunch Mao I think.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Gorlak and Mao had a strange connection early on that I can't quite put into words.

Like, Gorlak used the phrase "safety net" and then Mao kept hanging on to that. Then after seemingly being pretty aligned at the start, Gorlak starts questioning Mao to get his thoughts on things. They also then both jumped on me for my vote on Mao yesterday. Then Gorlak also claiming to have been targeted and mentioning knowing who it was apparently and "giving them a chance to claim" which is like, are we just all ignoring that line?

Kits' only contributions being mechanics speculations so far is also naturally eyebrow raising to me.

That's all off the top of my head at least.
What do you think of Fat4All?
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Before that though I'd like more clarity on Monkey's role, as she's indicated she want's to discuss more of it as well?
There is one thing and I honestly don't know what to make of it, like if it's flavor or a hint at bastardy and Natiko gave me nothing when I asked. I am Mama and my information (results) comes from my connection with the other side. As in dead players. That is specifically indicated.

I can ask for information but it's limited (I can only ask for information about certain players) AND Nat has to approve my question. So while there is nothing in my role PM that indicates this info ISN'T to be trusted, there's also absolutely nothing that proves they are OR if they actually come from dead players (people in spec). It comes down to whether or not we trust the phrasing. So you can see why I am not feeling super 100% AND why I did not want to begin speculating on scum powers d1 because what the absolute fuck balances this? The limits are there I guess because it's potentially broken as fuck without them.

So when I said there may be elements that impact my information, it comes down to just how bastard the game is and if dead players really means dead players (as in just turmoil at the time). turmoil and Ket's flips weren't particularly bastard. Even if Maol really did get hit with a modifier it apparently didn't change his actual role so that's not that bastard, either. So I lean toward... maybe not that bastard? Maybe the dead thing is flavory? I've been weighing everything all day so far and I honestly don't know where I come down on it. It felt like a holy shit moment when I got my results back, like hell yeah! but even while typing up my initial post I started to wonder and I've just wondered more as the day goes on.

a++++ rendering of Death Stranding mind fuckery, at least.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
I will say that the way the answer was phrased felt more like a traditional investigative role regardless of how the power is framed. So ??????????
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
I'm pretty tired right now so I'll get back to you in the morning on this, I just fell asleep at my desk for the second night in a row lol.
Well, don't do that. But between Fat4All's prioritization of information in his posts and the mixup about the Hated modifier, I'm getting a weird sense from his reactions here. Everyone else makes sense to me and some of the reactions I've been using to kinda get a sense of how bastard they think the game might be but his I can't get a fix on.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Well, don't do that. But between Fat4All's prioritization of information in his posts and the mixup about the Hated modifier, I'm getting a weird sense from his reactions here. Everyone else makes sense to me and some of the reactions I've been using to kinda get a sense of how bastard they think the game might be but his I can't get a fix on.
i'll investigate him tonight he might be the weird spooky thing the backpack is supposed to detect

hi i'm a backpack
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
"why reveal yourself now"? well my role helps town solve the game, and I could fire at like 13 people as a shot in the dark but that's like a 1/13 chance of finding my target since it's not a scum hunting ability

my role is more powerful if town know, and the majority of you are all still town, so here, here's my role

i'm a backpack
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
also i got a null on fantomas, fantomas isn't the weird spooky thing i'm supposed to detect, but this is not a green check, i repeat, this is NOT a green check
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
wait shit I just realized in mafia terminology null being used there is super confusing so here's what i mean by that

null -- the ability, which is nai, came back negative, so fanto is still a null. erego, "i got a null"
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
I'm crying Sam's fucking backpack, that's amazing

But I do have to ask, fellow weird ass investigator, is there any odd phrasing or anything (uh, don't quote your PM, kits. lol.)? I mean, other than jokes or whatever, anything?

And yeah, it's just that Fanto is not your target. But you're still town with that, with town win con?
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
I'm crying Sam's fucking backpack, that's amazing

But I do have to ask, fellow weird ass investigator, is there any odd phrasing or anything (uh, don't quote your PM, kits. lol.)? I mean, other than jokes or whatever, anything?

And yeah, it's just that Fanto is not your target. But you're still town with that, with town win con?

Oh there totally is. And yeah, I'm town, with town win con. Basically I detect oddities or whatever, and I can target a dude or a dudette each night to try and sniff out what I'm guessing is the neutral. It doesn't say wether it detects town or scum, and I find that especially curious.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Huh. That seems absolutely geared toward throwing a wrench into everything but it does make me feel like my weird shit isn't just an outlier, at least.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Yeah it's why I decided there was no point hiding it. My role is literally more powerful if town know, because then town knows they have to look for something that isn't just straight up scum v town.
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,009
Monkey, from your role how did you red check Mao? You asked 'the other side' specifically about Mao and Nat was like "yeah he's scum"?
 

DCBA

Member
Dec 12, 2018
1,057
What would be the first question you would ask Kojima regarding Death Stranding? Someone on twitter is asking question for an Interview
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Monkey, from your role how did you red check Mao? You asked 'the other side' specifically about Mao and Nat was like "yeah he's scum"?
I'm in bed so I'm not grabbing the actual posts but I asked if Maol was aligned with town and got a no, not aligned with town. The answer was p traditional investigation type response which is why I don't know if my role stuff is actually just flavor or real like if I'm really asking people or if it's just a dressed up investigation role or what.

Ask one question/night
Question has to be approved
Can only reference limited pool of players
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,358
here
So Dr. Monkey, earlier you said there was a chance that your ability could be misdirected, that's not the case right?

It doesn't seem like you actually target anyone with your ability, that you have to communicate through Nat with the dead player.

I ask because of this post you made earlier:


Absolutely true. So here's where I am on it (and then I gotta step away for a bit):

If scum Maol
I check Maol - result is not town
Theoretically someone else also applies hated modifier - this person would be town also since scum wouldn't do that to a scummate
(or Maol is lying to deflect/was already hated)

If town Maol (in which case, probably telling the truth)
I check Maol (town power 1)
Someone applies the hated modifier (could be any alignment)
Someone applies a switch or redirect or something (more likely scum but indeterminate)
=three people targeting Maol and that seems like a lot

OR the switch/redirect/whatever also applies a hated mod - but that seems OP
=two people targeting Maol

OR there's shenanigans with my role (which IS possible here)
but that still requires a second person targeting Maol

So in any scenario with town Maol there's at least two people on him and it wasn't Ket, who didn't seem to have the best feelings about him, so at least one other person targeting him for reasons unknown.

If scum Maol, there may or may not be a second target on him.

We also know:
Ket was killed
Gorlak claimed to have been visited

And if we assume some sort of protective or similar role, there's another thing happening. Lot of powers flying around, and we know at least one was self-targeting so potentially more there.

To my eye, the most likely scenario is scum Maol but I'm not willing to throw down the gauntlet on a check in a bastard game, even when it's my check.

It has lines like:

"I check Maol (town power 1)
Someone applies the hated modifier (could be any alignment)
Someone applies a switch or redirect or something (more likely scum but indeterminate)"

Your not really checking Maol, you're getting a yes or no answer from the dead, and from a direct question.

That doesn't seem like something that can be redirected, maybe only stopped/blocked.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,620
Yeah it's why I decided there was no point hiding it. My role is literally more powerful if town know, because then town knows they have to look for something that isn't just straight up scum v town.

Doesn't revealing this just lead to you being roleblocked tonight, or killed?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
I skimmed over what was posted during my sleep. I'll have to read more in depth, but

Dr. Monkey it sounds like the "connection to dead players" is not the fluff part in your role? And it should be very obvious what your role actually does from the highlighted part.

Part of the problem I have with the check is that Mao could've easily been a framing target. Scum have managed to get two mislynches out of scenarios like that. And Mao really was the last runner up to turmoil, before the two candidates and me voted Fran.

That being said, I agree that Mao is jumping the gun with "that's three mafian powers accounted for" and it's making me feel uneasy. That post in particular felt full of assumptions, not something I'm used to from him.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
At night I was marked by a handprint and it looks like the person doesn't want to claim it, that's worrying. You really want me to be the one to come out with it?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
Re: Mao x Monkey EoD 1

I read it the same way, and then he just kind of makes it like it's this thing that Monkey is trying to make him seem bad, probably because she's Scum! Like, ok, so if I had been around and able to quote you immediately, I would have probably asked the same thing.
For me it was pretty obvious that Mao simply stated that the thread implicitly agreed upon not lynching more active posters D1. You and monkey felt directly attacked, which wasn't true. Mao wasn't defensive, he explained something obvious to monkey. Following his train of thought wasn't something that needed witchcraft at this point. Monkey claims she questioned him to get a deeper understanding. Do with that what you will.

After her reiteration above I think I understand better were she was coming from.

I also agree that seeing this check as a scum!monkey move is difficult. I specifically said that I saw monkey + meatwad after turmoil's flip, not this day phase. It's why I wanted to hear more from monkey. The whole medium part of her role sent a chill down my spine (personal trauma from a long time ago). Was turmoil sending that response? Is it all just fluff? I'm having a hard time deciphering it.

If it matters, I'll just re-state that I had 0 read on Meatwad and that my vote shouldn't be read into. Monkey, Fanto, and Gorlak all then came out one way or the other against a Meatwad lunch.
I think it's important to state the correct order of who came out there. I was the first one to sway away from a Meatwad lynch yesterday. Monkey and Fantomas agreed/did the same afterwards. Which is part of why they ended up in a possible team for me in my night thoguths. Using my position to help a mate? Classic paranoia when people agree.

This would make it super obvious after a scum!monkey flip. I'm less inclined to believe that's what happened now.

In general I'm having a hard time to understand what VA is trying to do. He seems eager to be active, but I don't see much more.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
i'll investigate him tonight he might be the weird spooky thing the backpack is supposed to detect
hi i'm a backpack
"why reveal yourself now"? well my role helps town solve the game, and I could fire at like 13 people as a shot in the dark but that's like a 1/13 chance of finding my target since it's not a scum hunting ability
my role is more powerful if town know, and the majority of you are all still town, so here, here's my role
i'm a backpack
also i got a null on fantomas, fantomas isn't the weird spooky thing i'm supposed to detect, but this is not a green check, i repeat, this is NOT a green check
How is your role more powerful if town knows? Are you thinking of coordinating your target?

I've no reason to disbelieve you, but I don't understand the reveal. Also your math is off. At this point it should be 1/11 since you know yourself, we have two dead and you have already targetted one person.
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,009
I'm in bed so I'm not grabbing the actual posts but I asked if Maol was aligned with town and got a no, not aligned with town. The answer was p traditional investigation type response which is why I don't know if my role stuff is actually just flavor or real like if I'm really asking people or if it's just a dressed up investigation role or what.

Ask one question/night
Question has to be approved
Can only reference limited pool of players
Do you know who these players are?

Also if your role is actually a medium , not sure if this is a red check assuming turmoil's the one who answered ( and that Nat didn't reveal who scum are in spec yet lol)
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,009
What's the meta on Kitsunelaine ? I know she's wild and as town tends to go against the flow. Is she always care free about claiming?
Scum Kits once openly asked for a mass claim 10 mins before day end lol.

I don't know what to make of this though. If Kits isn't lying I think she might be right in that this specifically highlights neutrals because PRs in role madness tend to be weaker.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,358
here
i don't think i trust Dr. Monkey all that much anymore

the more i think on the claim from the start of the day to now
 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,947
Not sure what to make of Monkeys claim so far. If the answer really was from Turmoil I'm inclined to believe it since he wouldn't have a reason to lie. I assume if he didn't know the answer he would have said so.

Kits claim sounds believable though it's also an easy role to hide behind. It reminds me of Conspiracy where we had several useless cops around (unless you count someone fake red checking an alien).

Doesn't revealing this just lead to you being roleblocked tonight, or killed?
Not necessarily. If the thing she can detect isn't aligned with scum they would have no reason to roleblock or kill her and the thing probably doesn't have access to a roleblock and so far there hasn't been an extra kill so it's probably also not a serial killer.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Not necessarily. If the thing she can detect isn't aligned with scum they would have no reason to roleblock or kill her and the thing probably doesn't have access to a roleblock and so far there hasn't been an extra kill so it's probably also not a serial killer
Ding ding ding. You're right.


How is your role more powerful if town knows? Are you thinking of coordinating your target?

I've no reason to disbelieve you, but I don't understand the reveal. Also your math is off. At this point it should be 1/11 since you know yourself, we have two dead and you have already targetted one person.
You're right, I was only factoring alive/dead players. Still not good odds. And yeah, I was thinking of coordinating my target. But purely outside of that, this gives town game solving powers it didn't have before, which is a "power" my role has even if that power only exists in the meta. That kind of information is only good for town.