Death Stranding - Review Thread (see staff post for discussion guidelines)

[luther manhole]

it's also being talked about in the spoiler thread by people who have played the game, and they don't see it as being handled well either. i'll stop as this seems like the wrong thread to talk about it since people may want to remain unspoiled, the spoiler thread is probably more appropriate.

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and other people do think its handled well, is what i'm saying. just because some people think its bad doesn't mean its bad, and just because some people think its good doesn't automatically make it good. its just weird to talk in such bold declarative ways about something you haven't even played for yourself or have your own first hand opinion on.

 

[Deleted member 43]

It's just that hoorible subjects are dealt with all the time in media. This seems pretty tame compared to a lot that's out there.

Just because something is not very nice doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be shyed away from.

I'm not commenting on how it's handled in this particular game as haven't seen it yet.

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Are you a women or do you have children?

Not a gotcha question, I'm not and I don't.

 

[Deleted member 10737]

and other people do think its handled well, is what i'm saying. just because some people think its bad doesn't mean its bad, and just because some people think its good doesn't automatically make it good. its just weird to talk in such bold declarative ways about something you haven't even played for yourself or have your own first hand opinion on.

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you're right. i guess since the subject grossed me out i was more quick to believe the opinion that it was handled poorly.

 

[LuisGarcia]

Are you a women or do you have children?

Not a gotcha question, I'm not and I don't.

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Yes I have children. Not really sure how that is relevant to what I said though.

 

[Deleted member 2379]

and other people do think its handled well, is what i'm saying. just because some people think its bad doesn't mean its bad, and just because some people think its good doesn't automatically make it good. its just weird to talk in such bold declarative ways about something you haven't even played for yourself or have your own first hand opinion on.

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I've watched the full ending. It doesn't get much better. Just as WTF

 

[Pascal]

The song that plays while they are walking seems like something I would really like

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Here is that song

 

[DailyCalmSpirit]

Despite their low score of DS you can tell GB really want to, in some way, appreciate this game; they have like close to 4 hours of video of this game up now but ultimately, it is a hard sell. Alex mentioning how its a game he wants people to experience but cannot necessarily recommend to people sums it up.

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I don't know about that. Just feels like SEO chasing to me. This review is probably the most people outside of their audience have talked about Giant Bomb in ages. They're gonna do all they can to hold on to it.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

i feel like some people are making up imaginary posts and then get defensive about them.
i really don't see many people saying 83 is a bad score. if we judge a game's quality by only it's score, it's definitely a good one. it can't be denied tho that MOST people were expecting a higher score than the current one, based on both kojima's past games and some of SIE's big recent games. the fact that this didn't meet those expectations doesn't immediately make it a bad game, and people pointing that out aren't saying it sux either.
it feels more like the people who were expecting a 90+ game are getting defensive and coming up with reasons why it is the way it is, when the simple reason is that some reviewers (who HAVE actually played the game) didn't like it as much as they expected to like the game when they play it for themselves.
some of the made up narratives here are just absurd. the US/EU thing, saying "oh i can't enjoy the game now?" and acting like people will call you out if you say you're liking it, saying giant bomb is just shitting on the game for no reason, etc. those just come off as defensive arguments that try to justify why the outcome is what it is.
at the end of the day, the game is well received, and the reception and the few low scores would in no shape or form change your experience when you play the game.

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real talk? we saw this in the No Man's Sky review thread, the Crackdown 3 review thread, and the Anthem review thread.

And a lot of the people taking special exception and acting sensitive about Death Stranding's critics are people the same kinds of people who chuckled at the struggle of games like Crackdown 3 and Anthem and would have been happy to chastise their unapologetic defenders. But now it's their sacred calf, it's time to act hurt and find all manner of things to blame except the game for not reaching the degree of reception they believed it would garner.

The Crackdown 3 apologists felt the same way about their game. The Anthem apologists said many of the same things. This game is obviously better than those games, but the narrative of excuse-making and sensitivity is the same.

Guys if you like it, be happy with it. Being an adult means having your opinion while making room for the doubt of others. It's okay to recognize something may have real flaws, that those flaws may not be a deal-breaker for you but may be for someone else.

 

[Deleted member 43]

Yes I have children. Not really sure how that is relevant to what I said though.

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I think it's possible someone's relationship with children or history with pregnancy could affect how they feel about the BBs. Doesn't make an opinion more or less valid though.

 

[luther manhole]

I've watched the full ending. It doesn't get much better. Just as WTF

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that's cool. I'm interested to see what I think about it when i finally get a chance to play it. i like a lot of dumb bullshit so it wouldn't surprise me if i think it's good. i'm more just looking forward to seeing something interesting and this seems to be that, at least.

 

[Nappuccino]

just read the story behind them. i really can't believe sony was ok with that in a game they published.

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Oh. Holy shit. This is a great example of "might not be your place to tell this story."

 

[Deleted member 43]

I don't know about that. Just feels like SEO chasing to me. This review is probably the most people outside of their audience have talked about Giant Bomb in ages. They're gonna do all they can to hold on to it.

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It's a big AAA game published by a console holder from one of the most famous directors in the industry.

It's a game worth talking about, and one the staff clearly has strong opinions on. The idea that Giant Bomb is just "chasing SEO" is completely baseless.

 

[Dyno]

i feel like some people are making up imaginary posts and then get defensive about them.
i really don't see many people saying 83 is a bad score. if we judge a game's quality by only it's score, it's definitely a good one. it can't be denied tho that MOST people were expecting a higher score than the current one, based on both kojima's past games and some of SIE's big recent games. the fact that this didn't meet those expectations doesn't immediately make it a bad game, and people pointing that out aren't saying it sux either.
it feels more like the people who were expecting a 90+ game are getting defensive and coming up with reasons why it is the way it is, when the simple reason is that some reviewers (who HAVE actually played the game) didn't like it as much as they expected to like the game when they play it for themselves.
some of the made up narratives here are just absurd. the US/EU thing, saying "oh i can't enjoy the game now?" and acting like people will call you out if you say you're liking it, saying giant bomb is just shitting on the game for no reason, etc. those just come off as defensive arguments that try to justify why the outcome is what it is.
at the end of the day, the game is well received, and the reception and the few low scores would in no shape or form change your experience when you play the game.

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It really goes both ways though and in particular this forum seems really terrible at acknowledging that. For every overly defensive fan theres a post claiming it to be awful having never even played it or no intention of doing so.

 

[Deleted member 17402]

I mean, other than the reviewers themselves?

Matt seems to be the only non-reviewer that's posted an opinion so far. It wasn't positive.

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Yeah, other than reviewers. I'm curious to see whether there'll be a lot of negativity among the crowd.

 

[Kaswa101]

I'm shocked by how truly awful this game is.

Doing anything in it is an absolute chore.The Truck Simulator comparison is apt, save for the fact that TS can be fun, and has a better story.

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Well damn lol. Time to buy Truck Simulator instead!

 

[Nzyme32]

Despite their low score of DS you can tell GB really want to, in some way, appreciate this game; they have like close to 4 hours of video of this game up now but ultimately, it is a hard sell. Alex mentioning how its a game he wants people to experience but cannot necessarily recommend to people sums it up.

Definitely has taken my interest in the game down a few pegs when it comes out on the PC. Does not seem like something even mods could fix as the issues seem to be with the way the game is designed or too big in scope for mods to overcome.

But the way they shat on the game's narrative though......that's not something mods will be able to fix ever.

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Well more than that is Kojima's thoroughly expected marketing hyperbole. This "entirely new genre" of game, as GB point out, is just Eurotruck with additional story. Seemingly the same feedback from others versed with it.



To me this is more of a shame, because, that's absolutely no bad thing, and totally sells the game with that description... if only it were able to actually nail these qualities, have reasonable progression, narrative etc.

I'll still probably pick it up at a later date, purely on the basis of this having similar qualities to ET

 

[Titanpaul]

I don't know about that. Just feels like SEO chasing to me. This review is probably the most people outside of their audience have talked about Giant Bomb in ages. They're gonna do all they can to hold on to it.

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Really...? This review is talked about because they have built up consumer confidence and are a trustworthy source for discussion.

 

[Igniz12]

I don't know about that. Just feels like SEO chasing to me. This review is probably the most people outside of their audience have talked about Giant Bomb in ages. They're gonna do all they can to hold on to it.

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Does GB strike you as a website that makes a lot of listicles and cross media content? I mean you're entitled to your opinion but that's a weird take considering they keep getting accused of being jaded and low energy all the time on era.

Well more than that is Kojima's thoroughly expected marketing hyperbole. This "entirely new genre" of game, as GB point out, is just Eurotruck with additional story. Seemingly the same feedback from others versed with it.



To me this is more of a shame, because, that's absolutely no bad thing, and totally sells the game with that description... if only it were able to actually nail these qualities, have reasonable progression, narrative etc.

I'll still probably pick it up at a later date, purely on the basis of this having similar qualities to ET

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Lmao ikr. Good thing those jaded giant bomb duders called it what it was when it first came clear what kind of game he was making before the release.

 

[residentgrigo]

I think it's possible someone's relationship with children or history with pregnancy could affect how they feel about the BBs. Doesn't make an opinion more or less valid though.

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That person is Jeff Gerstmann, who just had a kid. The BBs, their lore and so on left him utterly disgusted. Kojima is the father of an adult son btw.

 

[DailyCalmSpirit]

Really...? This review is talked about because they have built up consumer confidence and are a trustworthy source for discussion.

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I'm more referring to the amount of video content the other post was talking about. They never do this much footage/tweeting over any game. Especially for ones they actually like.

 

[Belvedere]

Ironically as more info came out about Death Stranding the more I knew I probably wouldn't pick it up. After reading just how much some people love it and just how polarizing the game is though, I ended up buying it.

 

[DailyCalmSpirit]

Does GB strike you as a website that makes a lot of listicles and cross media content? I mean you're entitled to your opinion but that's a weird take considering they keep getting accused of being jaded and low energy all the time on era.

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They do strike me lately as a website that is definitely trying to increase their social media presence and get more eyes on their content. There was a whole thread about this not too long ago (the mid-life crisis thread).

I'm not saying SEO chasing is inherently wrong. I was just saying that's how their DS coverage is coming off to me, and, not "they want to like the game so much they're covering giving it more video footage than any other game."

 

[Deleted member 43]

I'm more referring to the amount of video content the other post was talking about. They never do this much footage/tweeting over any game. Especially for ones they actually like.

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Of course they do.

 

[VX1]

It's a big AAA game published by a console holder from one of the most famous directors in the industry.

It's a game worth talking about, and one the staff clearly has strong opinions on. The idea that Giant Bomb is just "chasing SEO" is completely baseless.

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I was thinking to maybe get DS when it goes on sale for $20 or so but you convinced me to just wait till it comes to PS+ :)
(just like i did with MGS 5)

 

[Kupo Kupopo]

The more I hear and see about this game, the more I believe that if the same game was put out by anyone else, it would have been utterly destroyed by the press lol.

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like many other controversial works by established auteurs, we can never know how this would've been received had it come from a new developer. which's unfortunate, because creations like this are meant to stand, & be judged, on their own merits...

but, yeah, i agree with you - imo, it definitely would've been subjected to very different criteria...

 

[Phendrift]

The way the tone of this thread is so different from people starting the game in the OT lol

 

[Proven]

I'm more referring to the amount of video content the other post was talking about. They never do this much footage/tweeting over any game. Especially for ones they actually like.

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Who would have thought they would increase their media output for a game a lot of people seem interested in.

 

[Deleted member 2379]

They do strike me lately as a website that is definitely trying to increase their social media presence and get more eyes on their content. There was a whole thread about this not too long ago (the mid-life crisis thread).

I'm not saying SEO chasing is inherently wrong. I was just saying that's how their DS coverage is coming off to me, and, not "they want to like the game so much they're covering giving it more video footage than any other game."

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They were given the game with a month to play it in a time when the only other game to review was The Outer Worlds. They had a lot of time and each of them was given a copy. They covered TOW in depth and this one. They just had a lot of time with this game before the deluge of releases. That and they have been intrigued since the beginning and Dan is obsessed with Kojima. Not sure what point you are making? IGN has had non stop coverage and exclusives since the beginning and gave it a 6.8.

 

[Deleted member 17402]

They do strike me lately as a website that is definitely trying to increase their social media presence and get more eyes on their content. There was a whole thread about this not too long ago (the mid-life crisis thread).

I'm not saying SEO chasing is inherently wrong. I was just saying that's how their DS coverage is coming off to me, and, not "they want to like the game so much they're covering giving it more video footage than any other game."

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You're really trying to paint a review website that thrives off of viewership as being problematic? This is such an empty comment. How is this even criticism? "They should be doing their worst, poorly optimizing their pages and making sure they don't make an effort to reach as many people as possible."

 

[DailyCalmSpirit]

Who would have thought they would increase their media output for a game a lot of people seem interested in.

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You're really trying to paint a review website that thrives off of viewership as being problematic? This is such an empty comment.

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Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't do it! I was responding to someone inferring they gave this game extra coverage because they wanted to really like it.

 

[Deleted member 17402]

Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't do it! I was responding to someone inferring they gave this game extra coverage because they wanted to really like it.

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Okie dokie. Sorry about that.

 

[francium87]

I'm more referring to the amount of video content the other post was talking about. They never do this much footage/tweeting over any game. Especially for ones they actually like.

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hitman

 

[Igniz12]

Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't do it! I was responding to someone inferring they gave this game extra coverage because they wanted to really like it.

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Did you think I inferred that from their video output lmao? It was after watching to their mini review last week and the podcast today. I did not conclude that from how many hours of video they seem to be putting out for DS.

 

[DailyCalmSpirit]

hitman

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Ah good call. "They never do this" was hyperbolic on my part.

Did you think I inferred that from their video output lmao? It was after watching to their mini review last week and the podcast today. I did not conclude that from how many hours of video they seem to be putting out for DS.

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OK, my bad. That's just how I read the post.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

This game is obviously better than those games, but the narrative of excuse-making and sensitivity is the same.

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I don't know about that.

Crackdown 3 was pretty damn fun. (IMO)

 

[tulpa]

Are you a women or do you have children?

Not a gotcha question, I'm not and I don't.

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lets not go down the trans-exclusionist identity route here

 

[Deleted member 43]

lets not go down the trans-exclusionist identity route here

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...?

 

[tulpa]

...?

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you're tying pregnancy to womanhood and that is essentialist and excludes trans people

 

[Deleted member 43]

you're tying pregnancy to womanhood and that is essentialist and excludes trans people

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Umm, no I'm not. Hence the use of "or."

 

[Hailinel]

you're tying pregnancy to womanhood and that is essentialist and excludes trans people

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That's an obtuse reading of Matt's simple comment.

 

[Kaswa101]

I'm surprised people are willing to give Kojima the benefit of the doubt on this whole BB controversy. Like, there's no way he handled it well lol

 

[tulpa]

Umm, no I'm not. Hence the use of "or."

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what? saying are you a woman and that might affect the way you interpret the themes of pregnancy is clearly linking the idea of pregnancy to womanhood. there are many women who can't get pregnant and many men that can get pregnant

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

what? saying are you a woman and that might affect the way you interpret the themes of pregnancy is clearly linking the idea of pregnancy to womanhood. there are many women who can't get pregnant and many men that can get pregnant

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Aren't all the

Spoiler

dead people on life support women in the game

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I'm surprised people are willing to give Kojima the benefit of the doubt on this whole BB controversy. Like, there's no way he handled it well lol

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"From the man who brought you Quiet, The Beauty and the Beast Unit, & all the sexist crap in Policenauts."

 

[tulpa]

Aren't all the

Spoiler

dead people on life support women in the game

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i don't think it directly states that but yeah one of my issues is that the game has a fairly essentialist view of motherhood that seems to exclude trans people. it's vague about the details, i'm about to start my second playthrough and i'll keep an eye out for what exactly it says about them

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

i don't think it directly states that but yeah one of my issues is that the game has a fairly essentialist view of motherhood that seems to exclude trans people. it's vague about the details, i'm about to start my second playthrough and i'll keep an eye out for what exactly it says about them

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Then Matt's comment seems to be about... how women would feel about being

Spoiler

these women being forced to be Terri Schiavo... Instead of pregnancy or parenthood.

 

[Deleted member 43]

what? saying are you a woman and that might affect the way you interpret the themes of pregnancy is clearly linking the idea of pregnancy to womanhood. there are many women who can't get pregnant and many men that can get pregnant

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Spoiler

The game depicts a world where dead women have become factory farmed baby conduits. It's in no way out of bounds or exclusionary to ask how women might read that situation.

 

[Deleted member 2379]

i don't think it directly states that but yeah one of my issues is that the game has a fairly essentialist view of motherhood that seems to exclude trans people. it's vague about the details, i'm about to start my second playthrough and i'll keep an eye out for what exactly it says about them

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I'm very confused about this whole train of comments. Completely ignoring how people identify themselves, two sperm cannot be merged to create human life. You need an egg and a sperm.

Kojima went down some complicated paths with this game, but trying to hammer in the introduction of life and how people identify themselves doesn't seem like its required

In addition to Matt's comments:

Spoiler: Spoiler

Childbirth is still a very risky thing and many people have severe complications which can kill the mother or the child. Focusing a game on turning women who die into baby conduits seems like something that shouldn't be a concept. And if so Kojima is not the one to handle it.

 

[Andalusia]

This "entirely new genre" of game, as GB point out, is just Eurotruck with additional story. Seemingly the same feedback from others versed with it.

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No one versed with the game or who has followed Kojima's comment about this being a "new genre" would say what you've just posted. I don't care whether people agree on it being a "new genre" or not, but the talk about it being a "new genre" is not centered around the delivery mechanics at all.

 

[tulpa]

Then Matt's comment seems to be about... how women would feel about being

Spoiler

these women being forced to be Terri Schiavo... Instead of pregnancy or parenthood.

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if that's the case then fair enough. my reading of the post was are you a woman, as in are you someone who can have children, or are you a parent because those two things would shape the way people feel about the BBs. if the comment was simply stating it seems like this game

Spoiler

depicts a world that is institutionally violent against women and women might feel a certain way about that and i thought it was talking about the BBs, not necessarily the stillmothers

then fair enough. i think it's kind of a ridiculous point to make, but it's not trans-exclusionary

I'm very confused about this whole train of comments. Completely ignoring how people identify themselves, two sperm cannot be merged to create human life. You need an egg and a sperm.

Kojima went down some complicated paths with this game, but trying to hammer in the introduction of life and how people identify themselves doesn't seem like its required

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genuinely don't know what this is supposed to mean in relation to trans people