As a story telling medium they're not taken seriously. For very good reason.Video games as a medium aren't taken seriously? What are you talking about?
As a story telling medium they're not taken seriously. For very good reason.Video games as a medium aren't taken seriously? What are you talking about?
Yeah I can see that. But who the fuck cares whether or not the intelligentsia thinks a video game story should "be taken seriously"? Enjoy things on your own and fuck caring what literary or film scholars might think of video games. lolAs a story telling medium they're not taken seriously. For very good reason.
Yeah I can see that. But who the fuck cares whether or not the intelligentsia thinks a video game story should "be taken seriously"? Enjoy things on your own and fuck caring what literary or film scholars might think of video games. lol
As a story telling medium they're not taken seriously. For very good reason.
You're watching the wrong movies. Marvel and Pikachu aren't what we're talking about.I think games are currently on par with mainstream movies when it comes to story telling.
Ive watched plenty of pop corn hits with legitimately less engaging stories than in some games.
They're not that far behind anymore.
You know someone doesn't really have a point worth considering when they resort to petty condescension. He said mainstream, that certainly includes things such as Marvel and Pikachu, or did you not read what he said and instead went right for the cheap shot?You're watching the wrong movies. Marvel and Pikachu aren't what we're talking about.
Even by those standards no way in hell would I rank the majority of video games sotry telling above cinema.You know someone doesn't really have a point worth considering when they resort to petty condescension. He said mainstream, that certainly includes things such as Marvel and Pikachu, or did you not read what he said and instead went right for the cheap shot?
Maybe I haven't been paying attention but I haven't seen people raving about the writing in Death Stranding. It's very sloppy in many respects and most people I see talk about it have acknowledged that.Or you can care about artistic merit and literary value, as well as enjoying things on their own merit. The fact remains that most game text fails formally, aesthetically, intertextually, structurally, and aspirationally. While there are phenomonal works out there, the fact the people praise this is have good writing really shows how far this medium needs to go.
I don't think anyone said the majority of video games are better than cinema, because that's preposterous and obviously not true by a long slot, but there's definitely a select few of the very best that are. I don't know why everyone has such a hard time comprehending what the guy even originally said, which wasEven by those standards no way in hell would I rank the majority of video games sotry telling above cinema.
You cut out more than half his quote to make this point. Don't be disingenuous. Heres what they said:I don't think anyone said the majority of video games are better than cinema, because that's preposterous and obviously not true by a long slot, but there's definitely a select few of the very best that are. I don't know why everyone has such a hard time comprehending what the guy even originally said, which was
Does that sound like the words of someone who ranks the majority of video game stories above cinema? You tell me.
That certainly sounds like they think its the majority to me. There was absolutely no qualification to that statement by that poster. It was a blanket "games are currently on par with mainstream movies when it comes to story telling".I think games are currently on par with mainstream movies when it comes to story telling.
Ive watched plenty of pop corn hits with legitimately less engaging stories than in some games.
They're not that far behind anymore.
man wait until you get to the end :3This thread is doing well I see...
56 hours in.
Episode 6.
GOTG, easy.
It really is a magical experience, it better be rewarded with sales or I lose all faith in the gaming community.This thread is doing well I see...
56 hours in.
Episode 6.
GOTG, easy.
Maybe I haven't been paying attention but I haven't seen people raving about the writing in Death Stranding. It's very sloppy in many respects and most people I see talk about it have acknowledged that.
It's sloppy and ridiculous in places FOR SURE. But I think the "it doesn't make sense" crowd are just being dense as hell. I would absolutely love to see Kojima's story ideas and writing filtered through a writing team. His ideas and the philosophy behind it is almost always very compelling, it's just usually not written in a naturalistic manner.Some folks just can't help but be insufferable about, ugh, video game writing
More like, it has flawsYeah, this game and MGSV need to swap their metascores.
this game is a flawed masterpiece. I blame the lack of proper online experience for the lower than deserved scores.
Dude has some cool ideas, but the writting is so bad sometimes ... And the amount of exposition is just baffling
Spoilers... wrf.I'm at the final chapters right now, and I think that people that gave the game a 10 were out of their minds
I'm playing this game daily. I love this game. I think about it when I'm not playing it.
But goddamn, this game has many, many flaws. And storywise the game jumped the shark at the final chapters. It went places. I'm having a harder time trying to understand all of Kojima's bullshit being thrown at me on these codec calls than I have when taking classes at college.
Dude has some cool ideas, but the writting is so bad sometimes ... And the amount of exposition is just baffling
SNIP
Death Stranding is a boring chore of a game that takes the worst aspects of open world games and combines them with a nonsensical plot.
Death Stranding is as thoughtful and meditative as it is a slog and convoluted. It is a different take on gaming that most of us gamers are not used to. It is a Hideo Kojima title where in-game actions provide a sense of emotional joy for players. Death Stranding, for all its depth and struggle, is a beautiful step forward for video games, and a potential taste of what the future may bring.
Is it because they're good scores and you don't like the game or is it because they're lower than what you expected?The reviews of this game vs my experience with this game remind me why I don't let video game reviews inform my opinion or purchasing decisions.
The original argument was whether game stories are taken seriously or not. I don't see much worth in comparing them to movies that are equally as bad as proof that game stories are worthwhile.You know someone doesn't really have a point worth considering when they resort to petty condescension. He said mainstream, that certainly includes things such as Marvel and Pikachu, or did you not read what he said and instead went right for the cheap shot?
It didn't get a "free pass", they merely liked it more or didn't find the same issues as grating in BotW as they did in Death Stranding. Not to mention, Death Stranding is still reviewing well and is going to win some GotY awards so I don't see the need to try and knock down another game to prop up this one. Honestly, I find the defensive over some just not being fond of this game to be more baffling than anything elseReading through some of these reviews and I can't help but feel some of them are completely missing the point.
So many of the criticisms can be applied to BOTW but that gets a free pass, I love both by the way. The fun is in the journey and creatively overcoming problems, with BOTW you have more room to be creative but the strand system makes up for that.
Probably my GOTY so far ahead of Sekiro and RE2 Remake.
That's Game Rant. Its brother, Screen Rant gave Death Stranding 5/5. Interesting scores from both sites!OpenCritic dropped to 84 after these two reviews
Screen Rant - 2/5
Oh whoops, fixing nowThat's Game Rant. Its brother, Screen Rant gave Death Stranding 5/5. Interesting scores from both sites!
I just don't get the super negative reviews "irredeemable piece of garbage".It didn't get a "free pass", they merely liked it more or didn't find the same issues as grating in BotW as they did in Death Stranding. Not to mention, Death Stranding is still reviewing well and is going to win some GotY awards so I don't see the need to try and knock down another game to prop up this one. Honestly, I find the defensive over some just not being fond of this game to be more baffling than anything else
It's a bit unconventional in some aspects, other aspects perhaps weren't all that great, and so the game is naturally not going to be everyone's cup of tea. Hell, even the highest rated and most awarded games of all time aren't everyone's cup of tea, like The Last of Us or The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Overall, the game still got good reviews. Mid 80's is by no means a bad score. It's not like it got dumpster fire reviewsI just don't get the super negative reviews, I almost skipped the game because of them, unfortunately many people (that may love the game) will overlook DS because of them.
I think games are currently on par with mainstream movies when it comes to story telling.
Ive watched plenty of pop corn hits with legitimately less engaging stories than in some games.
They're not that far behind anymore.
IMO the medium of games storytelling is held back by the need for gameplay.
Due to the nature of the medium, most stories have sections that are essentially filler material, even if it's well disguised, and that holds it back. Using the Last of Us as an example, since it's considered one of the better written stories in games, there's the section where you find Bill, only to then being told you have to go find a vehicle, only to then find the battery stolen so you have to go find that.
Additionally there's the case of ludonarrative dissonance, where there's a dichotomy between what's portrayed in the cutscenes and what's in the gameplay.
You can also add in the the dialogue in gaming is, on average, far poorer than even your average mainstream movie.
I would say some of the best stories in games edge out your average mainstream movie, but gaming in general isn't even close to mainstream movies, much less the better movies out there.
As a hardcore Metal Gear Solid fan, and general Hideo Kojima stan...
Corny writing and lengthy exposition are just part of Kojima's bizarre charm.
Come on, you can see how that looked like a spoiler surely? But thanks for clarifying.
What would that line even spoil? It'd be a shocking reveal on par with (Spaceballs spoiler warning!) "I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate."Come on, you can see how that looked like a spoiler surely? But thanks for clarifying.
I guess, I just don't want to know ANYTHING about how it pans out. I've read spoilers that were like that before for plenty of media that led me to piece together what actually happens ahead of time and ruined the payoff.What would that line even spoil? It'd be a shocking reveal on par with "I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate."
I apologize. Since I havent put it in spoilers, I thought that it would be obvious. My mistakeCome on, you can see how that looked like a spoiler surely? But thanks for clarifying.
It's a 10/10 game for me, personally, so far. No game is perfect, it's about individual experience. 10/10 doesn't mean "perfect" otherwise no game would ever achieve it. It's a personal thing, 10s = this is one of the best experiences I've had.I apologize. Since I havent put it in spoilers, I thought that it would be obvious. My mistake
Now that I have read the previous pages of the thread, Im kinda embarassed by people bashing the reviews
I love the game, but having played it up to the end, this is a 7.5-8.0 game. Nothing more, but maybe even less depending on how much you enjoy the mechanics.
As someone who really enjoyed the mechanics, world and story for the most part, it really outstay its welcome by 1/3 of its size.
As I said, the story also goes to ridiculous places. It certainly gets more active during the endgame, but its quality gets worse, imho. Way worse.
What Im trying to say is: this should not get 10's, at all.
And even as someone who loves the game, and likes Kojima games in general, the criticism should be welcomed by people, in order to have better games from Kojipro in the future.
If anything, they should be even more harsh, since Kojima is so up in his own ass that he he thinks that the criticism is due to reviewers "not getting it".
And no, the game has many glarring flaws
Reviewers should review games according to their feelings, I agree. But they should also point noticeable flaws that they experience during the game.It's a 10/10 game for me, personally, so far. No game is perfect, it's about individual experience. 10/10 doesn't mean "perfect" otherwise no game would ever achieve it. It's a personal thing, 10s = this is one of the best experiences I've had.
This game has flaws, but it also has some incredible highs and has a lot of depth and interlinking parts. The multiplayer design is wonderful and makes this open world feel more alive that many populated with actual players. It elevates beyond the sum of its parts, and could possibly be my GOTG.
Yet you proceed to do exactly that, I sometimes wonder if people read what they type.Now that I have read the previous pages of the thread, Im kinda embarassed by people bashing the reviews
A thing to note is that a lot of flaws ARE subjective even if YOU think they are glaring.Reviewers should review games according to their feelings, I agree. But they should also point noticeable flaws that they experience during the game.
Chrono Cross is a 10/10 to me, but I can point many flaws in it.
In the case of Death Stranding, pointing flaws would be even more important since this is an experience different from many others out there. If people are going to be bothered by these flaws or not, that's on them, but it should be part of the reviewers obligation to point them out to potential buyers.
How so?Yet you proceed to do exactly that, I sometimes wonder if people read what they type.
I believe everything is subjective if you look deep enough. But a review should be aiming for the general public, so they should at least warn people about some stuffA thing to note is that a lot of flaws ARE subjective even if YOU think they are glaring.
There is no objective truth for the vast majority of this.
How so?
I believe everything is subjective if you look deep enough. But a review should be aiming for the general public, so they should at least warn people about some stuff
When you reach the endgame, tell me if having to watch so many unnecessary cutscenes, like putting the delivered stuff on the treadmill, watching Bridget thanking you after every recicled item, watching a 10+ second anymation everytime you get to a BTs area, if thats not bad a design choice.
This part is exactly the same as the people you're talking about but on the other side.
What Im trying to say is: this should not get 10's, at all. People are saying that they will dismiss publications giving the game low scores, but I would also dismiss publications giving it a 10, honestly.