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DEATH STRANDING - Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
Now I just want to hear Norman Reedus say ''Oh no, Dr. Connors' class...''
User banned (permanent): trolling over a series of posts, attempting to shut down criticism of sexism, account in junior phase
to all the people complaining about kojima "creepiness", dont play the game! dont support it! no one is forcing you to play. let it go, this is his style. I hope he doesnt change it because the echo chamber is upset, i want to see his vision even the "creepy" stuff.
If Kojima's "vision" involves mandatory gross objectification, he needs better glasses.
Your, if you don't like it don't buy argument Is childish as all fuck.
is it though? I dont spend my money on things I don't support or care for. If it succeeds, good for it but I am not going to go out of my way to get upset, cry and complain until they change what i dont like about something. if the "panty shot" upsets you enough to feel disgusted towards the game and kojima, why are you going to play it/ buy it? im genuinely asking. is it to continue to upset yourself? are looking for something to be angry about?
Because many people love Kojima and his games and this is something he's had issues with in the past.
it's not like a subjective game design choice, it's an actual social issue.
yeah this stuff happens in real life (not timefall/ rain but rape and other evils) so why cant he include it into his game to tell a story? murder/ killing is in the game, isnt that a just as bad?
I agree with you, but let the complaints brush past yourself just the same. Everyone has a right to express themselves, Kojima as much as his critics. I see his obsession with the physical form of his characters as an expression of a deep connection with his creation, others might have a different perspective. Also I'm certain that an artist who goes unchallenged is probably not the most interesting one.
It's not the story itself, it's the shots and how they are framed to objectify women.
though I admit we still have only seen a screenshot. Cutscene may not be bad.
"Obsession with the physical form" is certainly a way to describe objectification and male gaze
And the concern isn't a matter of content but of how that content is portrayed and utilized in a work
I mean... he seems quite in love with male ass too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't male gaze refering to the objectification of the female body?
so is the issue only because its a woman? what about all the nude Reedus stuff we've seen. why isnt that an issue? im sure there are people out there that "fetish" those frames as well.
Pretty sure Norman Reedus is naked multiple times throughout the game.
Potentially NSFW (image from past trailer)
yeah hes "sexualized" plenty of his male characters but thats never an issue because its a male.
Ordinarily I'd agree, but this is Kojima were talking about here. If you'll recall he made up some bullshit "she's a plant" excuse to have Quiet run around 3/4s naked.
This is literally the only reason i do not complain as he does not hold any double standard he does it regardless of gender so while its not what i agree with and would rather it not be their. i am not gonna say he is a horrible human because he is transparent about it and will glorify man and woman.
actually that was the in-game reasoning behind it but IRL he stated he wanted to do something with quiet to make sexy cosplay. hes pretty transparent.
Exactly. This is Kojima. He just makes this stuff. He's the guy who focuses the camera on Snake's ass for no reason and is making a game with naked Norman Redus because he wants. He delivers fan service since ever. I don't get why people think he'll stop this. He won't, you like it or not.
absolutely, in the MGS universe he wanted to show that the battlefield was an ugly place where plenty of ugly things have happened, man or woman. Im pretty sure he wants to convey similar themes in the apocalyptic world.
Please don't drag me into that kinda argument of generalizations. I'm sure objectifying the male body would be equally frowned upon if there had been decades of degrading examples of male objectification prior to the current social discourse of these topics.
Yet I do think people are (understandably) viewing this very cynically, because with a lot of creations it is cynically or creepily motivated. From what I have personally taken away from Kojima games is that he doesn't seem to have a cynical bone in his body, in fact I think he is one of the most sincere creators I had the pleasure of consuming art from. And while it's easy to put these Kojima examples on a pile of other objectionable male gaze ones, I personally feel there's an uncommon amount of love and thought put into his characters which makes him view them differently than people could understand without being him. I don't know, it's hard to explain. I do think it's a complicated topic and I will not tell anyone they shouldn't be made uncomfortable by it if they are, it's just to me, having experienced the journey of these characters and the emotional impact they had on me, I don't feel they are being objectified or made lesser by Kojima's camera and I can't see that changing with Death Stranding.
User banned (1 month): dismissing concerns of misogyny and sexism as "puritanism" over multiple posts + prior severe ban for rationalizing transphobia
Good old Puritan Americans uncomfortable with sexuality
Watch a gameplay video? Can you not understand a narrated gameplay demonstration?
men do get objectified, its just not an issue because its not widely talked about, im just saying. i agree with your second paragraph though. I see no problem with making art.
Not sure this is "being uncomfortable with sexuality" and instead "being uncomfortable about sexualization during a torture scene that is surely intended to be sexually humiliating to the tortured."
Like, what do shots of her in her underwear add compared to just shooting a close up on her mask and then eyes.
They add polemic. Would you be here discussing this scene if it was just a shot on her mask and eyes? You're reacting exactly how Kojima wants people to react when he does stuff like this.
Being afraid from getting rain on your skin is literally the situation.
How dare he shows the thing that is at stake lmao
These reactions just shows that Kojima is succeeding with the scene.
Why do you even pose that question? It's and artistic choice. Many things could be shown in a different way, so what is the point there? Is your objection here because it's a game? Or would you object that in a movie and a book? That is his vision and that's how it should be.
I mean the difference between eyes and underwear it's here in your comment, it made you react and post here.
just because you don't like the feeling it does not mean it's should be made in another way, quite the opposite: it succeeded.
So... the point of the scene is for people to go "man, Kojima is kind of creepy and put a woman in her underwear while she's being tortured"?
... I do not think that's the point of the scene, but we'll see when the game comes out.
There are millions of examples of blatent male objectification all throughout Western media. It is simply not a concern to the public.
Like, Marvel has a lot of fanservice and is willing to sexualize Captain America and Thor but like... They're still very strong characters who care about a lot of stuff and have development and do badass stuff instead of just being sexualized and or victimized.
Quiet is not a strong character.
The bosses in MGS4 are the four worst characters Kojima has ever written.
Just imagine how many places will talk about this scene when the game comes out. This is more than artistic view, it's marketing. It's 2019 people, do you still didn't get that? You could say the same about Ellie's kiss and the extreme violence in The Last of Us. This stuff makes people talk about your game.
What about when snake was tortured naked? It had similar camera angles. What was the point? I think it was to convey discomfort like you're feeling now
Or you could learn to make great games in order to try to inspire people to come together and build bridges ;)
Not that that seems to work ever, but that doesn't seem to stop artists from trying.
Arguing "this scene is creepy for the money" feels... much worse?
I mean, maybe it won't even be creepy and this scene has little to no focus on her body. Devolving to this level already feels like a bad call.
Snake was also like 30 polygons when he was tortured.
Big Boss was tortured without a shirt on to show the violence done to his body.
We know how badly this will damage her body (probably, would be weird if this is how the aging is introduced!) so don't know if need to show it while she's in panties.
We know because we're people who spends their days on a spoiler thread about an unreleased game. The average player won't know that. This is something that will shock them.
??????????????
I'm saying that there will probably be a scene that introduces how the rain ages people before this scene.
If they choose this scene to be the scene that does that, that would be pretty weird as.... this is a torture scene that should have a very different feel than a "holy shit, what is the rain doing to me!" scene.
