DEATH STRANDING - Spoiler Thread

[BossAttack]

The story could've worked so much better if it wasn't trying to be so cryptic. We should have known about Sam's past with his wife and Amelie/Bridget early on. The Cliff twist should have come earlier and not at the literal end. Die Harman's past should have also come a lot sooner.

Honestly, the removal of the Codec as a narrative device has seriously harmed Kojima's writing, he's yet to figure out how to achieve it's same narrative purpose without it. The Codec is what really allows you to develop a relationship with characters who aren't physically present. The majority of this game Sam is alone so his only communication with characters is face to face or through hologram. But, holograms and Codec calls are mostly reserved for mission/expository dumps not actual conversations.

In the past, the Codec served as an excellent narrative tool that allowed you to gain further context on a character. You grew closer to these character by constantly talking to them on the Codec and learning more about them. Since he removed this purpose starting with MGS4, his characters have felt much more lacking since this means of connecting with characters was removed. I couldn't really give two shits about Mama/Lockne as he basically only served to explain tech and we only got to converse with her a few times in person. Heartman at least gets a decent amount of face-to-face time that allows you to connect with him more and Deadman the most.

Kojima needs to either bring the Codec back or figure out how to better develop these supporting characters when the PC spends most of the game alone.

 

[sackboy97]

I'm glad I held back from watching the Launch Trailer. People did say it contained spoilers, but I didn't expect every major cutscene to be included.

 

[efr]

I'm glad I held back from watching the Launch Trailer. People did say it contained spoilers, but I didn't expect every major cutscene to be included.

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I learned my lesson with mgsv. I didnt watch any media related to this until I finished it.

 

[Blablurn]

Finished it today. What an experience. WHAR AN EXPERIENCE

 

[adz2ka]

Finished this earlier.

Went in completely blind - hell, I wasn't even going to get it, but I'm so glad I did.
I don't think the story was that difficult to follow, but it certainly was convoluted. So glad I played and stuck with it though, I can definitely see a lot of people dropping this.

It's definitely a generational game and leaves a lasting impression.

With some tweaks to gameplay, I'd be all in for a sequel.

 

[R0b1n]

Spoiler: Potential spoilers for DS

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Oh man these sound more interesting than what the game actually is

 

[Deleted member 37928]

I love the premise of the game (and I loved the gameplay to death), and I'm fine with the broad strokes, but Kojima really needs to stop writing the dialog. He's terrible at writing dialog and he thinks all symbolism and subtext needs to be put on a flashing neon sign because he treats the audience like morons. He literally has his characters announce their own symbolism. I would love for him to just create the basic pitch of the story and then leave the actual writing to someone who's good at it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBhR4QcBtE

There are so many bad writing moments that completely took me out of moment.

• Everything with the Die Hardman mask was some of the stupidest shit I've ever seen. I could never take the charcter serious with that mask on and when Amelie had it on, it just got even dumber. You know it's him instantly in the flashback, and they try to conceal his face, but I honestly can't tell if it was meany to be so blatantly obvious or not.
• The 4th wall video game BS with Higgs. Like you already did the health bar thing in MGS4, Kojima. Lets go ahead and ruin this impactful moment with a health bar and stupid slow motion face distortions. I'm higgs and I'm breaking the 4th wall by talking about the final boss fight. It's not clever.
• Everything with Mama is hard to watch. The actress does a great job with what's there, but he has her do the facebook self hand hug thing and I had so much second hand embarrassment at that scene. And then we eliminate her character just to have her twin show up who is now both characters. And I don't think any of it was needed for the actual plot. It's literally this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w9DUTcAI0o
• I'm fragile but not that capable of saying my own damn catch phrase. When Sam said it I was like, "FINALLY, someone said it right!"
• Fragile hands Sam higg's mask and says it's a metaphor. WTF?
• Every time Heartman gave us likes it ruined the scene completely.
• Every time sticks and ropes came up. Completely unnatural dialog.
• Still using code names for every character. Heartman I could understand but mama could have used her real name the whole time and Die-Hardman could have just used another name like Joe or something, but hey let's let the guy with the stupid name and a weird skull mask be the president. Somehow that topped having a president who looked just like Big Boss and nobody noticed.
• We'll call the rope you have in game a strand, because we need to be more on the nose. Maybe because we spend all this time talking about sticks being used for attacks and ropes bringing people together and then we gave you a rope which you use to knock people out and it kinda ruins our own metaphor, but then we have a gun that was a stick but now it's a rope and oh god this awful.

Just think about all the awesome things in the game. Excellent camera work, set pieces, premise, acting, graphics, atmosphere, gameplay etc. They're all amazing and then they attach it all to this fanfic level writing. Let him go as crazy as he wants on all those other things 'cause he obviously knows what he's doing, but when he writes dialogue, someone needs to come in and slap him in the face to keep him in check.

On a random note, the best twist was finding out the pizza guy was Higgs. I loved that.

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Couldn't agree more with everything you wrote. The material is geniunly interesting but the writing and the whacky stuff ruins it most of the time. I was so pissed by this because it was so obvious to see the potential behind everything, and yet it was thrown away in the most amateurish way.

Death Stranding to me felt like Kojima tried his hardest to tread new ground but ultimately he was being bound to his old ways. It surprised me to see that he hasn't really matured all that much and all the criticism over the years seems lost on him. Not sure what my feelings are towards his future endeavours but I've grown a bit more cautious with every game he has put out in recent years. At least he's trying out new concepts so I'll give him and his team that.

 

[BoldPrompt]

I don't want to play Death Stranding anymore, but in doing so, you unlock more interview logs and mail messages to get more information. The extra logs and messages just further prove that there is no consistency.

The interview log "What Became of Fragile" is 3 weeks before Die Hardman's inauguration, and the Death Stranding is still a thing. Episode 15 shows the Death Stranding is still a thing. Fast forward in 2 weeks to the inauguration speech, and Die Hardman says "the Death Stranding is a part of the past". The rain and rainbow before the ending credits gives credence to that. So if the Death Stranding is truly a thing of the past, then what ended it in those 2 weeks?

 

[SinkFla]

Oh man these sound more interesting than what the game actually is

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Hard disagree. That is some bad fan fic/kojima cult of personality worship tier plot development.

 

[driveninhifi]

The plot has some really great bits and some bits that are....not so great.

The game's timeline isn't consistent at all. Bridget/Amelie aren't coherent characters.
Bridget faked her own fake persona's kidnapping for...reasons? She did this before she gave Higgs his powers (Fragile says Higgs betrays her about a year before the game starts). She simultaneously is building the chiral network to connect everyone and kill them all while also ordering Higgs to blow up cities.

In the same conversation Amelie says that the first voidout happened before Sam was born. But also that the death stranding happened sometime after Sam is repatriated the first time. So the death stranding actually doesn't have anything to do with BTs appearing...so what has the significance of it?

It's all a mess, unfortunately.

 

[R0b1n]

Hard disagree. That is some bad fan fic/kojima cult of personality worship tier plot development.

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I find that everything after the first major Higgs boss fight feels like fanfic tbh

 

[MechaMarmaset]

The plot has some really great bits and some bits that are....not so great.

The game's timeline isn't consistent at all. Bridget/Amelie aren't coherent characters.
Bridget faked her own fake persona's kidnapping for...reasons? She did this before she gave Higgs his powers (Fragile says Higgs betrays her about a year before the game starts). She simultaneously is building the chiral network to connect everyone and kill them all while also ordering Higgs to blow up cities.

In the same conversation Amelie says that the first voidout happened before Sam was born. But also that the death stranding happened sometime after Sam is repatriated the first time. So the death stranding actually doesn't have anything to do with BTs appearing...so what has the significance of it?

It's all a mess, unfortunately.

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Some of the emails clarify it a bit. Bridgett started trying to make contact with the BTs before the death stranding because she thought it would give Americans something to come together over. They talk about how the Egyptians used to see BTs and she wanted to bring that back. My own thought is this was her cover story as she's really trying to eliminate everyone because that's what she does. The bridge baby program started then to make more contact. Sam shows up and is some sort of wonder baby, dies, gets bright back and sets off a flood of BTs coming over.

 

[Truant]

Who were the floating guys we saw during the first voidout and near the end on the beach?

 

[vestan]

Who were the floating guys we saw during the first voidout and near the end on the beach?

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The five Extinction Entities is the running theory, though this hasn't been confirmed.

 

[Cerealmaterial]

Is it ever explained why you have to handcuff yourself to the bed when you sleep? I was wondering about it all game and never seemed to get an answer, unless I missed an interview log or something

 

[Hugare]

Who were the floating guys we saw during the first voidout and near the end on the beach?

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The five EEs is a safe bet

I mean ... there are five of them. I really cant think of a more plausible explanation

 

[nDesh]

Is it ever explained why you have to handcuff yourself to the bed when you sleep? I was wondering about it all game and never seemed to get an answer, unless I missed an interview log or something

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[BenjiBurltz]

Is it ever explained why you have to handcuff yourself to the bed when you sleep? I was wondering about it all game and never seemed to get an answer, unless I missed an interview log or something

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I thought that was how they do the blood transfusions while you rest. That may be wrong though.

 

[Luminish]

The five Extinction Entities is the running theory, though this hasn't been confirmed.

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What's the reasoning beyond them sharing the quantity of 5?

 

[Rat King]

What's the reasoning beyond them sharing the quantity of 5?

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These five major mass extinction events include the Ordovician Mass Extinction, Devonian Mass Extinction, Permian Mass Extinction, Triassic-Jurassic Mass Extinction, and Cretaceous-Tertiary (or the K-T) Mass Extinction.

 

[Cerealmaterial]

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Wouldn't it be make more sense for it to be the other way around? As in being uncuffed at night?

I thought that was how they do the blood transfusions while you rest. That may be wrong though.

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I didn't even think of that. But I guess that could be it.
It by no means ruins the game for me, just something that I kept wondering about the whole time.

 

[Schlauchkopf]

Dunno about the neogaf stuff, it's been a personal belief of mine based on the quality of the story started to get insanely convoluted after he left the series before 4 shipped. And I say this as a decade long fan of his.

The biggest shift in the series happened after F left so you can see where the connections are made.

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Go back further than the Metal Gear Solid series, Snatcher & Policenauts were written by Kojima himself, without any Fukushima influence and their narrative qualities and dialogue are way more in line with the MGS1-3 trilogy than Kojima's later works. For all we know Fukushima just did some additional research or wrote some optional codec conversations.

 

[SusumuStreet]

Yeah, I can't imagine how you could make a sequel for this.

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As an anthology like Team Ico's works or AHS. Sam & company's story is over but make a game using the same engine, general mechanics, and some kind of similar theme to tie it together. Probably with references to the first (this) game to let the youtube folks run wild with theories about how everyone is related or whatever.

Easy direction would be space travel. The whole Ludens logo character is obviously a big starting point, and the game already takes a lot of style cues from Interstellar. The isolation, hollow emptiness that comes with it, acting for the greater good to build something (sometimes literally) for humanity, attempts to reach out/communicate/remember home, etc. could all work on thematic levels shared with this one.

Lots of room for weird monsters that turns into "Are those weird creatures aliens? Oh shit, they were humans all along we didn't recognize because we've lived in isolation! They were never trying to harm us in the first place, their attacks were hugs! We live in a society where everything is viewed from a default of negativity when humanity can evolve to come together as a community and species" type twists + a healthy does of black hole/time dilation/quantum blah blah to explain trippy imagery. Maybe some Jodie Foster Contact stuff where beings take on (modern) human form to explain the metaphors to us.

But that's all just what I pulled out of my ass in 30 seconds, there's lots of room for other directions if it's treated like an anthology or just thematically related games like Team Ico's works. Give a wink and a nod to some of the characters or companies from this one. Maybe make the main character a woman (a Kojima first!), and being the main character will give Kojima the excuse to have her piss and shit and get tortured in her skivvies ('cause it's Kojima). Name her "L" so everyone can speculate if that means Louise. Include conflicting evidence both for and against that interpretation, and you'll keep people debating it and making analysis videos for years like the Inception top. Even without evidence, all the PT is Metal Gear is Death Stranding videos have shown the fanbase will do that anyway.

Maybe pull a Team Ico even more directly and do a SotC style boss-focused followup. This game was about hoofing it and had kinda shitty bosses, so make the next one all about the bosses. Bosses = characters = drama and cutscenes, which Kojima has been all about for decades now, and the bosses were always some of the more memorable parts of his MGS games anyway. So now that the navigation/movement mechanics are in place, focus on adding unique and memorable bosses which have always been one of his stronger areas. Do some Interstellar space travel stuff to add a few big open-world planet zones with new pretty terrain for the Decima engine to show off, and you've got yourself a pretty meaty sequel that will swing the detractors of this one.

 

[Deleted member 37928]

I was really surprised that Die-Hardman didn't help Sam escape with BB, as redemption for his past mistake involving a BB. It would've made for a really good arc imo.

All we got now was that awful character Deadman and another one of his boring and badly acted exposition scenes. Completely ruined the emotional impact of everything.

 

[Phendrift]

As an anthology like Team Ico's works or AHS. Sam & company's story is over but make a game using the same engine, general mechanics, and some kind of similar theme to tie it together. Probably with references to the first (this) game to let the youtube folks run wild with theories about how everyone is related or whatever.

Easy direction would be space travel. The whole Ludens logo character is obviously a big starting point, and the game already takes a lot of style cues from Interstellar. The isolation, hollow emptiness that comes with it, acting for the greater good to build something (sometimes literally) for humanity, attempts to reach out/communicate/remember home, etc. could all work on thematic levels shared with this one.

Lots of room for weird monsters that turns into "Are those weird creatures aliens? Oh shit, they were humans all along we didn't recognize because we've lived in isolation! They were never trying to harm us in the first place, their attacks were hugs! We live in a society where everything is viewed from a default of negativity when humanity can evolve to come together as a community and species" type twists + a healthy does of black hole/time dilation/quantum blah blah to explain trippy imagery. Maybe some Jodie Foster Contact stuff where beings take on (modern) human form to explain the metaphors to us.

But that's all just what I pulled out of my ass in 30 seconds, there's lots of room for other directions if it's treated like an anthology or just thematically related games like Team Ico's works. Give a wink and a nod to some of the characters or companies from this one. Maybe make the main character a woman (a Kojima first!), and being the main character will give Kojima the excuse to have her piss and shit and get tortured in her skivvies ('cause it's Kojima). Name her "L" so everyone can speculate if that means Louise. Include conflicting evidence both for and against that interpretation, and you'll keep people debating it and making analysis videos for years like the Inception top. Even without evidence, all the PT is Metal Gear is Death Stranding videos have shown the fanbase will do that anyway.

Maybe pull a Team Ico even more directly and do a SotC style boss-focused followup. This game was about hoofing it and had kinda shitty bosses, so make the next one all about the bosses. Bosses = characters = drama and cutscenes, which Kojima has been all about for decades now, and the bosses were always some of the more memorable parts of his MGS games anyway. So now that the navigation/movement mechanics are in place, focus on adding unique and memorable bosses which have always been one of his stronger areas. Do some Interstellar space travel stuff to add a few big open-world planet zones with new pretty terrain for the Decima engine to show off, and you've got yourself a pretty meaty sequel that will swing the detractors of this one.

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I want a space game from Kojima so fucking bad

I'm disappointed we don't go to the moon in this one, but go all out for the next one

And I'd love a boss focused Kojima game, been a while since he really put emphasis on them and when he does he gives us some GOATs.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

I have to ask. Was anyone legit surprised by Sam being Cliff's son at the very end of the game?

I felt like I guessed that twist like 2 hours into the game. I felt like the game was spelling out the twist to you during the Vietnam scene. The game flashes the eye blinks and zooms into Sam for the flashback, and Cliff hugs Sam and not BB at the end of the scene. Like, you can't get any more obvious than that. But no, the game creates an hour long ending cinematic just for this reveal. This game has its story priorities all messed up.

I just finished, really really liked it, man it went full MGS4 at the end (which I love!).

The only thing I actively disliked was that fucking beach credits sequence. It rivals the long Jeep ride in MGSV in how awful it is. It has two damn credits sequences, the first one NAME BY NAME, SLOWWWWWWWLY with cuts in between for Bridget to expose her story. There are like 4 or 5 "rest" moments in that. And when the final one ends, ALL THE CREDITS AGAIN (at least with I'll Keep Coming, I'll give them that).

Fucking hell Kojima, what a dumb decision you made there.

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That beach credits scene ruined the rest of the game for me almost.

I had a hard time connecting with the stuff that came after, because I was still thinking about how pretentious and bad that fucking beach scene was.

The story could've worked so much better if it wasn't trying to be so cryptic. We should have known about Sam's past with his wife and Amelie/Bridget early on. The Cliff twist should have come earlier and not at the literal end. Die Harman's past should have also come a lot sooner.

Honestly, the removal of the Codec as a narrative device has seriously harmed Kojima's writing, he's yet to figure out how to achieve it's same narrative purpose without it. The Codec is what really allows you to develop a relationship with characters who aren't physically present. The majority of this game Sam is alone so his only communication with characters is face to face or through hologram. But, holograms and Codec calls are mostly reserved for mission/expository dumps not actual conversations.

In the past, the Codec served as an excellent narrative tool that allowed you to gain further context on a character. You grew closer to these character by constantly talking to them on the Codec and learning more about them. Since he removed this purpose starting with MGS4, his characters have felt much more lacking since this means of connecting with characters was removed. I couldn't really give two shits about Mama/Lockne as he basically only served to explain tech and we only got to converse with her a few times in person. Heartman at least gets a decent amount of face-to-face time that allows you to connect with him more and Deadman the most.

Kojima needs to either bring the Codec back or figure out how to better develop these supporting characters when the PC spends most of the game alone.

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I thought the tapes in MGSV were fine. It was a smart evolution of the codec by allowing the player to listen to them at any time and also while playing the game. I would have liked to have seen those make a return in DS. Instead, you have a long list of emails and interviews that simply require an insane amount of reading.

 

[saltine161]

Just finished it, very interesting story overall that I'm still confused about. Definitely going to tons of theories about everything.

 

[Mirage]

The five EEs is a safe bet

I mean ... there are five of them. I really cant think of a more plausible explanation

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I don't think it was trying to be subtle with this.

 

[ymgve]

The five EEs is a safe bet

I mean ... there are five of them. I really cant think of a more plausible explanation

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But the previous entities weren't human or even vaguely human shaped.

I still go with the theory that they're your human friends searching for you.

 

[astro]

One thing I'm not clear on, why were BB-28's records scrubbed?

Would love to get some confirmation about the clone theory as well. It would make sense as then Lou would have the same memories as Sam does possibly, so connecting to the BB to trigger the flashbacks would make more sense. But it doesn't really support the stillmother concept, unless they had those clones implanted in them, but then they wouldn't be stillmothers yet, unless that was done after the fact. So it doesn't quite check out.

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I don't think Lou had those memories, I think Sam connecting with Lou triggered his own.

the timeline isn't actually all that coherent. it's kind of a mess.
here's what i got out of it:

bridget was always an EE.
She "dies" at 20 and starts existing on the beach and in the world at the same time.
the first voidout happens before sam is born. it's unclear if this is the voidout that kills the president.
bridget takes over and keeps investigating BBs
Cliff's wife goes into a coma. He hands her over to the govt.
They take Sam out of Lisa and keep her in a coma. The first BB and stillmother.
Die-hardman realizes Cliff is the father and tries to help him escape with Sam
Die-hardman kills Cliff and Sam
Bridget goes to the beach and repatriates sam
(amelie says explicitly the death stranding happens after this but that makes no sense. she also says this is when DOOMS starts. or maybe just the nightmares?)
Time passes
Sam's wife dies, causing a voidout that destroys a city and kills his wife and kid. Sam leaves.
7 years later Bridges 1 travels west
(this part makes no sense to me. was there never a first group? did she just kill them all?)
Amelie meets Higgs, Higgs gets superpowers
1 year before the game Higgs blows up middle knot, betrays fragile, etc
Sam returns, bridget dies, game starts, etc

there's no real reason for bridget/amelie to fake a kidnapping and empower higgs.
she needs the network completed and for sam to be at her beach. i think they were going for "well i had to get myself kidnapped so you'd come because i knew you didn't care about anything" but it really felt like kojima really wanted another twist.

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The Death Steanding happening later makes sense. The world was experiencing the effect of Amelie and her Beach, but it wasn't a cataclysmic event... more like smaller scale disasters that were symptomatic of the approaching DS.

Amelie knew Sam wouldn't care about her mission, she knew Sam only cared about her. This was the only way to get him to agree she could think of, and Sam needed to do it as a repatriate.

Higgs was given power but he went mad with it, he did a lot of things outside of Amelie's command. You can uncover a lot of this in the back stories from his bunker.

 

[MegaSackman]

I'm replaying the game and I'm confused (as everyone) with Amelie.

When they give Sam the mission to go after her she says "I don't get to grow old my body is on the beach, he knows that". So... what was the plan? Sam extracting her body from the beach?

So, Bridget was Amelie's body but they didn't know that, they have to think that Amelie is phisically on the beach (she tells them that) but how's that even possible and how they expect to get her out of there? Also, how did Sam think to get to her beach in the first place?

My only explanation to that is they don't know a lot about the beach, bts, and bbs and learn about it as the story goes on but still, they never question themselves what are they gonna do with their plan...

 

[Deleted member 16365]

I have to ask. Was anyone legit surprised by Sam being Cliff's son at the very end of the game?

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I figured it out fairly early, but not before the WW1 section. During the cutscenes showing the memories I started to wonder. When they hugged in Vietnam I knew for sure they were father/son.

What I didn't get was why Cliff was shooting at Sam the whole time...

 

[dragonbane]

I'm replaying the game and I'm confused (as everyone) with Amelie.

When they give Sam the mission to go after her she says "I don't get to grow old my body is on the beach, he knows that". So... what was the plan? Sam extracting her body from the beach?

So, Bridget was Amelie's body but they didn't know that, they have to think that Amelie is phisically on the beach (she tells them that) but how's that even possible and how they expect to get her out of there? Also, how did Sam think to get to her beach in the first place?

My only explanation to that is they don't know a lot about the beach, bts, and bbs and learn about it as the story goes on but still, they never question themselves what are they gonna do with their plan...

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They seem to think she has been held by Higgs and the Homo Demens in Edge Knot City. And they are using her as leverage to avoid the UCA from attacking them. They are allowing her to communicate freely however for some reason and no one is questioning it, but she can't leave the city. That's what you get told at the very beginning. The fishy basic premise aside that everyone seems to believe, it falters at so many points I'm surprised it takes the ingame characters so long to get behind it. The fact that Edge Knot City is entirely abandoned and only roamed by BTs, that everyone constantly pits Higgs and you having a race for whom can get to Amelie faster even though Higgs is supposed to have her already (and in reality even got his powers from her).

Then in Edge Knot City it switches rather quick from "she will come to your room any second" to "she is on the beach now and Higgs tries to get her exact location". How she went from the real world to the beach is not questioned really. By the end you really do get the impression that everyone thought she was on the beach all along (which is true after all), but the facts show they didn't lol. And if they knew that then Sam could have gotten to her way sooner than Edge Knot City. The implication may be that Die-Hardman knew she was on the beach all along, but invented the Edge Knot City stuff to get Sam to go all the way west. That's the only thing that makes sense and Amelie does tell you it was a joint idea between he two to convince Sam to go west by using her as the device.

Despite that, there still seem to be quite a few cases where characters don't know the right information, then learn the right information, but don't react to it but play it off like it was the correct information all along. The whole Amelie stuff should have tripped up anyone way earlier. Similarly to how Sam seemingly experiences the Cliff flashbacks as the audience does, but it still takes him 30 hours to utter the theory "I think Cliff wants the BB", when the very first flashback has Cliff say to the BB "Daddy is here".

 

[MegaSackman]

They seem to think she has been held by Higgs and the Homo Demens in Edge Knot City. And they are using her as leverage to avoid the UCA from attacking them. They are allowing her to communicate freely however for some reason and no one is questioning it, but she can't leave the city. That's what you get told at the very beginning. The fishy basic premise aside that everyone seems to believe, it falters at so many points I'm surprised it takes the ingame characters so long to get behind it. The fact that Edge Knot City is entirely abandoned and only roamed by BTs, that everyone constantly pits Higgs and you having a race for whom can get to Amelie faster even though Higgs is supposed to have her already (and in reality even got his powers from her).

Then in Edge Knot City it switches rather quick from "she will come to your room any second" to "she is on the beach now and Higgs tries to get her exact location". How she went from the real world to the beach is not questioned really. By the end you really do get the impression that everyone thought she was on the beach all along (which is true after all), but the facts show they didn't lol. And if they knew that then Sam could have gotten to her way sooner than Edge Knot City. The implication may be that Die-Hardman knew she was on the beach all along, but invented the Edge Knot City stuff to get Sam to go all the way west. That's the only thing that makes sense and Amelie does tell you it was a joint idea between he two to convince Sam to go west by using her as the device.

Despite that, there still seem to be quite a few cases where characters don't know the right information, then learn the right information, but don't react to it but play it off like it was the correct information all along. The whole Amelie stuff should have tripped up anyone way earlier. Similarly to how Sam seemingly experiences the Cliff flashbacks as the audience does, but it still takes him 30 hours to utter the theory "I think Cliff wants the BB", when the very first flashback has Cliff say to the BB "Daddy is here".

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No no but at the briefing scene Amelie tells both Sam and Die Hardman that her body is on the beach. The whole quest is really strange considering they know this information.

I must say that most of the time it seems that Amelie is trapped in Edge Knot City but the enemy doesn't have her, only at the breafing you believe that she's being captive but then, most of the story, it feels like she is hiding from the terrorist.

What I don't get is if everyone knows she is on the beach, why is Sam going to Edge Knot when it shouldn't be neccesary, in fact he shouldn't be able to go there (the beach) in any way no matter where he is.

Obviously everyone wants him to go there to reconnect but how he plans to get to Amelie beats me.

 

[dragonbane]

No no but at the briefing scene Amelie tells both Sam and Die Hardman that her body is on the beach. The whole quest is really strange considering they know this information.

I must say that most of the time it seems that Amelie is trapped in Edge Knot City but the enemy doesn't have her, only at the breafing you believe that she's being captive but then, most of the story, it feels like she is hiding from the terrorist.

What I don't get is if everyone knows she is on the beach, why is Sam going to Edge Knot when it shouldn't be neccesary, in fact he shouldn't be able to go there (the beach) in any way no matter where he is.

Obviously everyone wants him to go there to reconnect but how he plans to get to Amelie beats me.

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Oh yeah in the same conversation it is said that her body is still on the beach lol. So I guess they think the enemy has her soul trapped in Edge Knot City, the "part" that matters I guess, however the fuck that is possible? But then how can Sam bring her back to be officially inaugurated as president, if she is soul only. Unless they planed to merge her body and soul again somehow and get her body later. Some of these logistics and smaller detail really don't make a lot of sense, so it falls apart there quite a bit

 

[MegaSackman]

Oh yeah in the same conversation it is said that her body is still on the beach lol. So I guess they think the enemy has her soul trapped in Edge Knot City, the "part" that matters I guess, however the fuck that is possible? But then how can Sam bring her back to be officially inaugurated as president, if she is soul only. Unless they planed to merge her body and soul again somehow and get her body later. Some of these logistics and smaller detail really don't make a lot of sense, so it falls apart there quite a bit

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haha I just shut my brain off at that and enjoyed the ride but I wish someone come up with an explanation I can buy. Maybe there's really something I didn't read or understand.

 

[Vex]

Finished it today. What an experience. WHAR AN EXPERIENCE

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Yo this comment has me crying laughing and I don't know why. "WHAR." LOL I need help.

 

[BoldPrompt]

Getting Sam to Edge Knot City would have connected the whole chiral network together so that Amelie could conduct the Last Stranding (until Sam convinced her otherwise). I guess the reasoning is only Amelie knows the true purpose of the chiral network at that point, while Hardman only knows that the chiral network is good for reuniting America. Even then, as has already been stated, they already know Amelie is on the Beach, so it's still a flimsy plan.

 

[Papercuts]

I have to ask. Was anyone legit surprised by Sam being Cliff's son at the very end of the game?

I felt like I guessed that twist like 2 hours into the game. I felt like the game was spelling out the twist to you during the Vietnam scene. The game flashes the eye blinks and zooms into Sam for the flashback, and Cliff hugs Sam and not BB at the end of the scene. Like, you can't get any more obvious than that. But no, the game creates an hour long ending cinematic just for this reveal. This game has its story priorities all messed up.

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Even beyond that, the whole thing hinges on the guy who clearly cares about his child constantly saying "my BB" and not...saying the child's name.

It's so ridiculous, lol. Of course the name is then gonna be important, and of course it's gonna be Sam, the person that the game goes out of its way to give basically no details on.

 

[MegaSackman]

Getting Sam to Edge Knot City would have connected the whole chiral network together so that Amelie could conduct the Last Stranding (until Sam convinced her otherwise). I guess the reasoning is only Amelie knows the true purpose of the chiral network at that point, while Hardman only knows that the chiral network is good for reuniting America. Even then, as has already been stated, they already know Amelie is on the Beach, so it's still a flimsy plan.

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Right and Sam doesn't want to do that, he just want to help Amelie. I thought he wanted to rescue her but maybe he agreed on doing the connecting thing with her rescue as a separare thing. I don't know.

 

[Asbsand]

The story could've worked so much better if it wasn't trying to be so cryptic. We should have known about Sam's past with his wife and Amelie/Bridget early on. The Cliff twist should have come earlier and not at the literal end. Die Harman's past should have also come a lot sooner.

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I somewhat agree except I did feel the story was effective and quite emotional near the end.

What ultimately hurts the narrative in the end to me is that it feels like the story/scenario was drafted before any game systems were being done, just the way it comes across. Then, the game itself was built around it, which could've been a good thing but it's more like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and the like where rather than build on the story anything that happens in the missions and gameplay seem to add a lot of fluff around the pre-exsiting storyline. So you get needless repetition which adds to that "crypticness". Rather than getting to the point about Cliff being the daddy to BB, which you can already infer early on based on his first exposition in Chapter 7, you have to hear Deadman call you 3 times and painstakingly fill out the page with the obvious information.

The whole game is weird like that, where it kind of tells its story backwards. They create some good, genuine intrigue from some of the story while making a clear premise for you to follow (Go connect to Edge Knot and find Amelie) but then they gradually begin filling in the blanks on the mysteries they have established. Once they begin doing that, though, the "in-game" conversations drag out the revelations of the primary story scenes. The game has plenty of subtlety and good dialogue in its cutscenes but most of the radio calls and the holocalls basically exist to over-explain points about the plot that could've been self-explanatory, but because they hammer so hard on it it almost ends up confusing more than it clarifies, especially with its insistence on all the abbreviations (EE, BB, BT etc.)

It has some of the "NANOMACHINES" Syndrome, but you know, it also credits Shuyo Murata as one of 3 writers in the end credits. Since MGS4, then Peace Walker and MGSV there's been that rising trend of Kojima stories having "THE WORD" in them that they keep reiterating almost to pretend it's smarter than it is, and if it wasn't for that I think Death Stranding has way better storytelling than any of Kojima's last 3 games.

 

[dragonbane]

Right and Sam doesn't want to do that, he just want to help Amelie. I thought he wanted to rescue her but maybe he agreed on doing the connecting thing with her rescue as a separare thing. I don't know.

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He says before and after he only did it to get Amelie. So clearly he must think all the way that some part of her is being held in Edge Knot City or he would take Fragile to the beach right away. Yeah...at some point Kojima went lazy with it lol

 

[Asbsand]

The five Extinction Entities is the running theory, though this hasn't been confirmed.

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No, it is. There's no reason to speculate, the imagery, and logic is all there.

 

[MegaSackman]

He says before and after he only did it to get Amelie. So clearly he must think all the way that some part of her is being held in Edge Knot City or he would take Fragile to the beach right away. Yeah...at some point Kojima went lazy with it lol

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I think it might be a mistake, it'd make sense if everyone thinks her body is at Edge Knot and not the beach so they have someone to rescue once they're there but the thing is, if she exists in the phisical world she would age (which she does considering her actual body is Bridget) but since she doens't she has to say that's she's on the beach.

It's really confusing and I believe there's no way out of it lol.

 

[dragonbane]

I somewhat agree except I did feel the story was effective and quite emotional near the end.

What ultimately hurts the narrative in the end to me is that it feels like the story/scenario was drafted before any game systems were being done, just the way it comes across. Then, the game itself was built around it, which could've been a good thing but it's more like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and the like where rather than build on the story anything that happens in the missions and gameplay seem to add a lot of fluff around the pre-exsiting storyline. So you get needless repetition which adds to that "crypticness". Rather than getting to the point about Cliff being the daddy to BB, which you can already infer early on based on his first exposition in Chapter 7, you have to hear Deadman call you 3 times and painstakingly fill out the page with the obvious information.

The whole game is weird like that, where it kind of tells its story backwards. They create some good, genuine intrigue from some of the story while making a clear premise for you to follow (Go connect to Edge Knot and find Amelie) but then they gradually begin filling in the blanks on the mysteries they have established. Once they begin doing that, though, the "in-game" conversations drag out the revelations of the primary story scenes. The game has plenty of subtlety and good dialogue in its cutscenes but most of the radio calls and the holocalls basically exist to over-explain points about the plot that could've been self-explanatory, but because they hammer so hard on it it almost ends up confusing more than it clarifies, especially with its insistence on all the abbreviations (EE, BB, BT etc.)

It has some of the "NANOMACHINES" Syndrome, but you know, it also credits Shuyo Murata as one of 3 writers in the end credits. Since MGS4, then Peace Walker and MGSV there's been that rising trend of Kojima stories having "THE WORD" in them that they keep reiterating almost to pretend it's smarter than it is, and if it wasn't for that I think Death Stranding has way better storytelling than any of Kojima's last 3 games.

Click to shrink...

What's also telling to me is that you don't see any of the characters in gameplay, like ever? I can only think of carrying Mama around and fighting Higgs/Cliff. Otherwise there is no point where any of the major characters outside Sam exist in the overworld/gameplay. Sometimes they talk to you face to face, then a second later in gameplay immediately radio you again. I only really noticed this strange disconnect later on, but it's a bit weird for a story game in 2019. At least there should have been some instances where you can see the side characters go about their way during gameplay

 

[Papercuts]

What's also telling to me is that you don't see any of the characters in gameplay, like ever? I can only think of carrying Mama around and fighting Higgs/Cliff. Otherwise there is no point where any of the major characters outside Sam exist in the overworld/gameplay. Sometimes they talk to you face to face, then a second later in gameplay immediately radio you again. I only really noticed this strange disconnect later on, but it's a bit weird for a story game in 2019. At least there should have been some instances where you can see the side characters go about their way during gameplay

Click to shrink...

I noticed this too and it bothered the hell out of me.

You NEVER regain control with them on the screen at the same time. It's one of the reasons that chiral artist part is so awkward (well, one of many, lol). The way she just sheepishly looks at you, as she leaves the scene to open the door and leave is so odd, especially as Sam doesn't utter a word.

Deadman in chapter 7 is also like this. Meet him in the sewer, he hands you BB through the bars, then...uh, runs off into the darkness in the back before you gain control. You're mostly talking to holograms otherwise, but the few times you aren't they make sure you're totally alone before you can do anything.

 

[Asbsand]

What's also telling to me is that you don't see any of the characters in gameplay, like ever? I can only think of carrying Mama around and fighting Higgs/Cliff.

Click to shrink...

Yeah. The islation of the gameplay is a huge issue with the game. I feel many games this generation has exactly focused on creating a game framework for narrative and moving away from only doing things via cutscenes. I love cutscenes and I love those in Death Stranding but the gameplay leaves a lot to be desired for the way they executed the narrative.

This was also something that felt absent too often in MGSV but to its creddit you actually have Quiet as a companion and I remember parts where you'd stumble across primary characters in the field.

 

[Hogendaz85]

Please spoiler tag people, just read something that pisses me off. Still my fault but still!

 

[dragonbane]

Yeah. The islation of the gameplay is a huge issue with the game. I feel many games this generation has exactly focused on creating a game framework for narrative and moving away from only doing things via cutscenes. I love cutscenes and I love those in Death Stranding but the gameplay leaves a lot to be desired for the way they executed the narrative.

This was also something that felt absent too often in MGSV but to its creddit you actually have Quiet as a companion and I remember parts where you'd stumble across primary characters in the field.

Click to shrink...

I noticed this too and it bothered the hell out of me.

You NEVER regain control with them on the screen at the same time. It's one of the reasons that chiral artist part is so awkward (well, one of many, lol). The way she just sheepishly looks at you, as she leaves the scene to open the door and leave is so odd, especially as Sam doesn't utter a word.

Deadman in chapter 7 is also like this. Meet him in the sewer, he hands you BB through the bars, then...uh, runs off into the darkness in the back before you gain control. You're mostly talking to holograms otherwise, but the few times you aren't they make sure you're totally alone before you can do anything.

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Yup yup. Seems like a clear case of KojiPro cutting corners to get the game out faster, while using the theme of isolation to halfway convincingly handwave it away lol. But when the game goes to this great length about it in situations where it doesn't fit, it kinda takes you out of it. On one hand the game tells you you are all alone, on the other you enter Central Knot and it points out 19000 people are living here currently, but you don't see anyone around. They are all hiding behind giant metal doors and going there triggers cutscene mode immediately haha

 

[Xtortion]

I enjoyed the walking