It's not. Trolljima at his worst/best
FYI there's a lot more after those first credits roll. There's a whole other portion to the ending it sounded like you missed lol
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DEATH STRANDING - Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
It's not. Trolljima at his worst/best
FYI there's a lot more after those first credits roll. There's a whole other portion to the ending it sounded like you missed lol
Upon hearing Sam say "What? So I'm Mario and you're Princess Peach?" I immediately exclaimed "More like Princess BEACH heh"
Can't believe someone actually thought to put such a corny line in the game.
Can't believe someone actually thought to put such a corny line in the game.
I'm glad they had the Mads flashbacks without the BB interface, because I could not understand him for the life of me through that container.
I must have missed a ton of tracks, because I have no CHVRCHES stuff in my music player.
I must have missed a ton of tracks, because I have no CHVRCHES stuff in my music player.
That would mean Fragile isnt completely granny under the suit.
So I finished the game the other day and think I've processed it. Just need to info dump some thoughts.
Overall I applaud the game for trying something different, but damn is weighed down by the kojima nonsense.
I love the initial act of going out to a new outpost. Gearing up for the unknown, and solving the puzzle of what route is going to be best to take with the gear you have is a really engaging loop. Where it fell apart for me is leveling up the outposts, once you've made the return trip it becomes monotonous to go back.
I wont repeat what others have said about the combat/stealth sections, but I agree.
The story's an absolute mess (To the degree where I ended up skipping the credit/post-credit cutscenes because I was so lost with what was going on, I felt the game was spewing jargon at me that I had no chance at understanding). I found this the most painful part, because I love the setting and core ideas they've built into the world (Timefall, BTs, BBs, etc).
I dont think I'll play the post-credit chapter. I get the gist of what happens from the comments here, but at this point I'm so burnt out on the story that I just don't care anymore.
I'd be curious what a game would look like with Kojima pitching the core pillars of a game, but not being as involved in the core development because that's where I feel his contributions become detremental. (Obviously just pure speculation, maybe he is hands off but I dont get that impression)
Overall I applaud the game for trying something different, but damn is weighed down by the kojima nonsense.
I love the initial act of going out to a new outpost. Gearing up for the unknown, and solving the puzzle of what route is going to be best to take with the gear you have is a really engaging loop. Where it fell apart for me is leveling up the outposts, once you've made the return trip it becomes monotonous to go back.
I wont repeat what others have said about the combat/stealth sections, but I agree.
The story's an absolute mess (To the degree where I ended up skipping the credit/post-credit cutscenes because I was so lost with what was going on, I felt the game was spewing jargon at me that I had no chance at understanding). I found this the most painful part, because I love the setting and core ideas they've built into the world (Timefall, BTs, BBs, etc).
I dont think I'll play the post-credit chapter. I get the gist of what happens from the comments here, but at this point I'm so burnt out on the story that I just don't care anymore.
I'd be curious what a game would look like with Kojima pitching the core pillars of a game, but not being as involved in the core development because that's where I feel his contributions become detremental. (Obviously just pure speculation, maybe he is hands off but I dont get that impression)
I finished the game yesterday after enjoying my time with it immensely. Early on I made the decision that the second I started rushing through deliveries or traversal, I would quit for the day. I knew that if I just kept on playing, I would end up screwing up and that would lead to nothing but frustration. That rule served me well; the stats at the end said that I stumbled/fumbled/whatever-the-word-was-that-it-used-for-falling seven times over the course of the game, and I distinctly remember all of them and the situations surrounding them. That's actually really cool; it's rare that I remember sections of the moment-to-moment gameplay of a singleplayer game.
As I've thought more about how the game tells its story, I've come to appreciate it. My first instinct was to recoil at the endless dialogue, the endless series of people yapping on about stuff that I already knew, going over the same plot points and adding nothing. That's been a thing in every Kojima game I've played, and it felt like the credits sequence at the Beach was him at his absolute worst. However, looking back at it now that I actually have more a grasp on the Bridget/Amelie character, I think her endless monologue was fitting. It tells everything about her character: she thinks she knows what she's about, but she doesn't. She's just fumbling in the dark, trying shit without even really knowing what she wants. She's kind of a terrible character, but I also understand her? I still feel like the game never gave me a reason to actually care about anything to do with her (another constant in Kojima games: female character who we are supposed to care about without ever being given a real reason[1] to; see The Boss for the absolute worst case of this), but looking back at it I can appreciate what Kojima was going for. I wish the execution had been better, but eh, I wasn't expecting it to be. Every Kojima game could do with cutting out about half the dialogue and letting the pictures do the talking, but I don't see him ever improving on that. People have enough trouble understanding his games even with everything being stated outright oh, three or four times.
Ultimately--and I hate to say this because of how often the game reminds us of it--this game is about building bridges, and man, it succeeds at that on a level that no other game has. Every time I booted up the game, I genuinely felt like I was doing something worthwhile, working towards a better world. Sometimes that was tedious, but I was happy to do it because the work felt like it had meaning, like I wasn't just smashing monsters to make an experience bar go up. I completely understand why that's not for everyone, but that's art. Some things you like, some things you love, and some things you just don't care for. I find myself not caring about a lot of big AAA releases these days, so to find a game like this that completely resonated with me is something special. I wish the economics of it all made it possible for more major studios to take risks, rather than doing another take on the same old games, only with increasing production values.
The theme really came together once the zip line was unlocked. I was resistant to using them at first, but it didn't take me long to catch on and building that network up gave me immense pleasure, especially whenever there was backtracking to be done (so basically the whole part in the snowy mountains). That really told me that yes, the few extra moments I spent thinking about ways of connecting this world had paid off, that my work was bearing fruit. I can only imagine how much someone would hate that part of the game if they did it all on foot.
The final run up to the incinerator gave me goosebumps, and when Sam walked outside with Lou and found a different world with rain that didn't make you old and rainbows that were the right side up and had blue in them, I had this feeling in my stomach that I never get with games. Great books and movies give it to me occasionally. It's this weird combination of feeling perfectly sated but also empty inside. Arrival's ending is a recent-ish example of a movie that left me feeling like that. It's like finishing a rollercoaster ride and a great meal all at once but without feeling all pukey. Or something. I don't know how to describe feelings, I just know that this one is rare enough that I'll cherish it.
There's things I hate about the game, like most everything to do with Fragile and Mama (again, Kojima and female characters), but I love the core of it so much that I can let some of the bad stuff slide. The game nails it on the thematic and emotional level, and that's so much more important to me than a perfectly plotted story or pitch perfect dialogue. I could point to a certain major film from December of 2017 as another example of this, but let's keep that beast out of this thread.
[1] by "real reason" I mean something more involved than telling us that a character made some huge sacrifice that we have no intimate connection to and that really doesn't matter to us at all. You know, a human reason to care about them, something that allows me on this side of the screen to connect with the character. "They's pretty and brave and maybe they sacrificed themselves for the greater good" is not enough, it gives me no reason to care about the character.
As I've thought more about how the game tells its story, I've come to appreciate it. My first instinct was to recoil at the endless dialogue, the endless series of people yapping on about stuff that I already knew, going over the same plot points and adding nothing. That's been a thing in every Kojima game I've played, and it felt like the credits sequence at the Beach was him at his absolute worst. However, looking back at it now that I actually have more a grasp on the Bridget/Amelie character, I think her endless monologue was fitting. It tells everything about her character: she thinks she knows what she's about, but she doesn't. She's just fumbling in the dark, trying shit without even really knowing what she wants. She's kind of a terrible character, but I also understand her? I still feel like the game never gave me a reason to actually care about anything to do with her (another constant in Kojima games: female character who we are supposed to care about without ever being given a real reason[1] to; see The Boss for the absolute worst case of this), but looking back at it I can appreciate what Kojima was going for. I wish the execution had been better, but eh, I wasn't expecting it to be. Every Kojima game could do with cutting out about half the dialogue and letting the pictures do the talking, but I don't see him ever improving on that. People have enough trouble understanding his games even with everything being stated outright oh, three or four times.
Ultimately--and I hate to say this because of how often the game reminds us of it--this game is about building bridges, and man, it succeeds at that on a level that no other game has. Every time I booted up the game, I genuinely felt like I was doing something worthwhile, working towards a better world. Sometimes that was tedious, but I was happy to do it because the work felt like it had meaning, like I wasn't just smashing monsters to make an experience bar go up. I completely understand why that's not for everyone, but that's art. Some things you like, some things you love, and some things you just don't care for. I find myself not caring about a lot of big AAA releases these days, so to find a game like this that completely resonated with me is something special. I wish the economics of it all made it possible for more major studios to take risks, rather than doing another take on the same old games, only with increasing production values.
The theme really came together once the zip line was unlocked. I was resistant to using them at first, but it didn't take me long to catch on and building that network up gave me immense pleasure, especially whenever there was backtracking to be done (so basically the whole part in the snowy mountains). That really told me that yes, the few extra moments I spent thinking about ways of connecting this world had paid off, that my work was bearing fruit. I can only imagine how much someone would hate that part of the game if they did it all on foot.
The final run up to the incinerator gave me goosebumps, and when Sam walked outside with Lou and found a different world with rain that didn't make you old and rainbows that were the right side up and had blue in them, I had this feeling in my stomach that I never get with games. Great books and movies give it to me occasionally. It's this weird combination of feeling perfectly sated but also empty inside. Arrival's ending is a recent-ish example of a movie that left me feeling like that. It's like finishing a rollercoaster ride and a great meal all at once but without feeling all pukey. Or something. I don't know how to describe feelings, I just know that this one is rare enough that I'll cherish it.
There's things I hate about the game, like most everything to do with Fragile and Mama (again, Kojima and female characters), but I love the core of it so much that I can let some of the bad stuff slide. The game nails it on the thematic and emotional level, and that's so much more important to me than a perfectly plotted story or pitch perfect dialogue. I could point to a certain major film from December of 2017 as another example of this, but let's keep that beast out of this thread.
[1] by "real reason" I mean something more involved than telling us that a character made some huge sacrifice that we have no intimate connection to and that really doesn't matter to us at all. You know, a human reason to care about them, something that allows me on this side of the screen to connect with the character. "They's pretty and brave and maybe they sacrificed themselves for the greater good" is not enough, it gives me no reason to care about the character.
There are no Chvrches tracks in the music player. It must be a licensing thing. Death Stranding and Miracle are on the Timefall playlist on Spotify, but in the game itself I think only Death Stranding is ever used as the ending theme, and it doesn't unlock in the music player even after that. The brand new Silent Poets song does unlock after the ending, so Chvrches probably just didn't get greenlit for music player usage. Unfortunate.
I like how they began with "Amelie's inappropriate footwear". I laughed out loud during the game when she started running on the rocky beach with her high heels!
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Finally beat this.
It certainly was unique. The nicest thing I can say about the game is that its extremely confident in its gameplay loop. They really go all in on making you a delivery man. It's just that said gameplay loop happened to be one that I largely did not care for. It often felt more frustrating than rewarding, and all the constant backtracking certainly did not help, especially the huger instances of it in the back half of the game. It's not like I'm inherently opposed to struggling a bit when traveling from point A to point B, but unlike say BoTW, it was more frustrating than anything else. That said, there were the few bright spots where I was able to truly enjoy the challenge, such as when you had to trek up the snowy mountain for the first time. Lesser stuff like setting up ziplines also felt pretty good, though there is the irony of looking forward to setting up something that heavily trivializes the regular gameplay loop. Building bridges and roads is one thing, but ziplines are absurd in how useful they are. It was only with setting up them that I made a more legitimate attempt to tackle side quests and such, as I now had access to means that made it not be an utter slog.
Combat was extremely meh. I don't consider myself a person that's hard to please in this respect, but yea, it didn't do it for me at all in this game. Going into it, I wasn't expecting so much combat scenarios to begin with due to what the gameplay loop was. So to find out that nah, there's actually a lot of it, surprised me. Unfortunately, stuff like the Mules, BTs, the boss fights, practically all of it was quite poor. I went into the game thinking BTs would be this very intimidating force, but it didn't take me long to see them as being little more than an overbearing nuisance. For as good as the design for the BTs, especially the more formidable ones, were, it just wasn't any fun to fight them. The only boss fight I enjoyed a little was the part of the Higgs fight where you just lay into one another as if it were a fighting game. Mechanically-speaking, obviously it wasn't anything to write home about, but the presentation in that section of the fight was admittedly pretty neat. As for the sections/chapters where you fight Cliff, I dunno what the consensus is for them, but after Chapter 4 it quickly lost its luster for me as well. In general, I quickly learned to avoid combat scenarios if I could help it. That aside, there was one thing I liked. Well, I guess it wasn't really a fight, but I would say the section that impressed me the most was when you had to manipulate the BTs' shtick of dragging you out into the open so that you could cross the ocean of tar through the risen buildings. That was at least one moment where I could say that I was genuinely impressed.
Story-wise, uhh, I'm pretty damn mixed on it. Actually, no, that's not true, I didn't care for the overall plot the further I got into the game. I started by saying the game has a lot of confidence in its gameplay loop, but story-wise, not so much. Really felt like they were scared you wouldn't get anything on their own, and as such kept repeatedly hammering in the themes of the story. Like how everyone would fall over themselves to say that you're the one connecting, bringing everyone together. I'm like damn, I get it.
As for the characters, Amelie... was just the absolute worst, and I'll just leave it at that. Aside from her, there were a handful of performances I did enjoy. Mama in particular was the first time I felt rather moved. Like looking at it coldly, you know her for a very short time before she randomly dies. But her one-sided talk with Sam as we trekked to get her to her sister was a really great performance. The rest of the cast, such as Fragile (fav. character surprisingly), Die-Hardman, Cliff etc. were all pretty cool too. Only other character aside from Amelie that I just frankly did not care for was Heartman. As for Lou, I mean, it's a baby, pretty hard not to end up caring for it somewhat by the end, especially with scenes like you almost putting it in an incinerator. While the story ended up being rather overwrought and filled with corny dialogue, terrible pacing, and long as fuck cutscenes (I definitely understand now why people say Kojima badly needs an editor or something), I couldn't help but be impressed by the cutscene presentation/direction. They were really good, which just matches how good the game looked in general. And I say that as someone with an OG PS4 that is overdue for a TV upgrade, I could only imagine how much better it looks with the latest tech.
Overall, I'd give it like a 5/10. It was, to be blunt, the least enjoyable title I've played all year, where I should've listened to my initial gut feeling that the gameplay clearly wasn't for me and bought something else. But at the same time, I'm kind of in this weird space where I'm ultimately glad I experienced it, if only because it would've kept eating at me if I hadn't otherwise given how unique it was. The power of FOMO I guess.
I could not believe how bad the line delivery was for that. Like I knew beforehand that she says it, but I assumed that there'd be at least some self-awareness, some sort of cheekiness to how she says it. But nope, its played completely straight, at least for the first two times. It's only in the 3rd delivery of the line where I'll admit it was a little charming hearing it one last time, that's how she should've said in the first place, if at all.
Though at least it wasn't as bad as the "Princess Beach" line, good lord that had me dying
It certainly was unique. The nicest thing I can say about the game is that its extremely confident in its gameplay loop. They really go all in on making you a delivery man. It's just that said gameplay loop happened to be one that I largely did not care for. It often felt more frustrating than rewarding, and all the constant backtracking certainly did not help, especially the huger instances of it in the back half of the game. It's not like I'm inherently opposed to struggling a bit when traveling from point A to point B, but unlike say BoTW, it was more frustrating than anything else. That said, there were the few bright spots where I was able to truly enjoy the challenge, such as when you had to trek up the snowy mountain for the first time. Lesser stuff like setting up ziplines also felt pretty good, though there is the irony of looking forward to setting up something that heavily trivializes the regular gameplay loop. Building bridges and roads is one thing, but ziplines are absurd in how useful they are. It was only with setting up them that I made a more legitimate attempt to tackle side quests and such, as I now had access to means that made it not be an utter slog.
Combat was extremely meh. I don't consider myself a person that's hard to please in this respect, but yea, it didn't do it for me at all in this game. Going into it, I wasn't expecting so much combat scenarios to begin with due to what the gameplay loop was. So to find out that nah, there's actually a lot of it, surprised me. Unfortunately, stuff like the Mules, BTs, the boss fights, practically all of it was quite poor. I went into the game thinking BTs would be this very intimidating force, but it didn't take me long to see them as being little more than an overbearing nuisance. For as good as the design for the BTs, especially the more formidable ones, were, it just wasn't any fun to fight them. The only boss fight I enjoyed a little was the part of the Higgs fight where you just lay into one another as if it were a fighting game. Mechanically-speaking, obviously it wasn't anything to write home about, but the presentation in that section of the fight was admittedly pretty neat. As for the sections/chapters where you fight Cliff, I dunno what the consensus is for them, but after Chapter 4 it quickly lost its luster for me as well. In general, I quickly learned to avoid combat scenarios if I could help it. That aside, there was one thing I liked. Well, I guess it wasn't really a fight, but I would say the section that impressed me the most was when you had to manipulate the BTs' shtick of dragging you out into the open so that you could cross the ocean of tar through the risen buildings. That was at least one moment where I could say that I was genuinely impressed.
Story-wise, uhh, I'm pretty damn mixed on it. Actually, no, that's not true, I didn't care for the overall plot the further I got into the game. I started by saying the game has a lot of confidence in its gameplay loop, but story-wise, not so much. Really felt like they were scared you wouldn't get anything on their own, and as such kept repeatedly hammering in the themes of the story. Like how everyone would fall over themselves to say that you're the one connecting, bringing everyone together. I'm like damn, I get it.
As for the characters, Amelie... was just the absolute worst, and I'll just leave it at that. Aside from her, there were a handful of performances I did enjoy. Mama in particular was the first time I felt rather moved. Like looking at it coldly, you know her for a very short time before she randomly dies. But her one-sided talk with Sam as we trekked to get her to her sister was a really great performance. The rest of the cast, such as Fragile (fav. character surprisingly), Die-Hardman, Cliff etc. were all pretty cool too. Only other character aside from Amelie that I just frankly did not care for was Heartman. As for Lou, I mean, it's a baby, pretty hard not to end up caring for it somewhat by the end, especially with scenes like you almost putting it in an incinerator. While the story ended up being rather overwrought and filled with corny dialogue, terrible pacing, and long as fuck cutscenes (I definitely understand now why people say Kojima badly needs an editor or something), I couldn't help but be impressed by the cutscene presentation/direction. They were really good, which just matches how good the game looked in general. And I say that as someone with an OG PS4 that is overdue for a TV upgrade, I could only imagine how much better it looks with the latest tech.
Overall, I'd give it like a 5/10. It was, to be blunt, the least enjoyable title I've played all year, where I should've listened to my initial gut feeling that the gameplay clearly wasn't for me and bought something else. But at the same time, I'm kind of in this weird space where I'm ultimately glad I experienced it, if only because it would've kept eating at me if I hadn't otherwise given how unique it was. The power of FOMO I guess.
I could not believe how bad the line delivery was for that. Like I knew beforehand that she says it, but I assumed that there'd be at least some self-awareness, some sort of cheekiness to how she says it. But nope, its played completely straight, at least for the first two times. It's only in the 3rd delivery of the line where I'll admit it was a little charming hearing it one last time, that's how she should've said in the first place, if at all.
Though at least it wasn't as bad as the "Princess Beach" line, good lord that had me dying
I platinumed the game last night with 124 hours on the in-game timer. Really mixed feelings about the game but I enjoyed it overall and game loop of deliveries and building infrastructure past the early game was oddly satisfying.
A question about the ending - what was the purpose of Bridget wearing Die-Hardman's mask in some of the scenes? Was there a reason for her to hide her face that I missed?
A question about the ending - what was the purpose of Bridget wearing Die-Hardman's mask in some of the scenes? Was there a reason for her to hide her face that I missed?
I think the mask is just a visual metaphor about how the true self and motivation is hidden from the world and people are two faced. Just like with Higgs, the mask isn't about hiding an identity or covering a physical defect but rather about hiding the true self.
Just finished, awesome game. Loved the gameplay loop, kind of weird but it has the same feel of adventure as vanilla wow and botw. Combat was awful bullshit. Story was ok overall but I really loved the ending.
So was BB/Lou actually Louis, Sams daughter?
Cliff/Sam connection was cool.
So was BB/Lou actually Louis, Sams daughter?
Cliff/Sam connection was cool.
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Hm, it got implied between the lines, but never got confirmed. In the end lou is his daughter, in blood or not
I'm curious about the interactive possibilities when you carry a living being on your back. I know you can take a warm bath with Mama, but is there something else ? Like, anyone tried to bring the artist or Mama to the incinerator for example ?
Finally finished this and beyond Chp9 things were so boring.
Higgs boss battle (and the character) probably was the worse.
But the cargo delivery part which was supposed to be chore was actually fun.
55hours, 481 Cargo delivered and Lvl230. Solid 8/10 experience.
Higgs boss battle (and the character) probably was the worse.
But the cargo delivery part which was supposed to be chore was actually fun.
55hours, 481 Cargo delivered and Lvl230. Solid 8/10 experience.
If you mean his real daughter, no. His own baby died with his wife.
It seems like it took a while for the effects to totally wear off. Remember that the BTs and the climate abnormalities were are a result of things using Amelie's beach as portal of sorts, so whatever has gone through is still presumably in-between worlds. They don't just suddenly vanish. But since we can't get more BTs coming over anymore, those that made it across will slowly clear until there are no more. That's how I imagined it.
Much as I like the game, I do feel like the end game was a little lackluster, since there is no real final boss. You beat the final boss several chapters well before that.
Beat it tonight and still had some headaches about the Lou = Sam problem, but reading in this thread granted me some insight. I initially thought that Lou and Sam were the same person and wondered how they could exist at the same time. Overall I enjoyed my time with the game. It has really good elements and it is more than the sum of its parts. But if you ask me about my desire of a sequel I have no answer to that right now. I am debating with myself if I should go for the platinum.
Sam Bridges is the prototype BB, taken from Cliff Unger and his wife Lisa Bridges, and acidentally killed by John (his hand guided by Bridget/Amelie) when she tries to stop Cliff in order to save the chiral network project. Baby Sam is then restored by Bridget/Amelie's Extinction Entity powers in the Seam, reviving him as a deathless repatriate, and raising him as her adopted son, Sam Strand.
What I'm not clear on is what Bridget/Amelie was planning to do with the chiral network at the time. She speaks of being drawn in different directions by different dreams. The chiral network would rebuild the nation, but by merging people's Beaches it would also set the stage for mass extinction, allowing antimatter to pour into the world en masse. As an EE, it's in her nature to bring about the latter, but was her original intent with the network simply to rebuild rather than destroy? Also, I take it she wore the mask on the off-chance an outsider witnessed her at the facility, perhaps wishing to conceal the president's direct involvement in the BB project.
At any rate, I'm thoroughly impressed by how everything was resolved. I wish we got closure on Heartman finding his family, and Lockne/Mama are relatively sidelined after Episode 5, but the story otherwise tied up things nicely. There's a poignant lingering "will they meet again" quality to the relationship between Sam and Fragile, and a warm touching "lonely man finds love" quality to the friendship between Deadman and Sam, culminating in Sam initiating the hug at the end. Die-Hardman and Cliff are beautifully empathetic portrayals, and I appreciate that you can rewatch their scenes in Sam's private room. Higgs was a total ham, but his mustache-twirling villainy is retroactively made interesting by the revelation that Bridget/Amelie recruited him, creating a scenario where Higgs would play the villain and Sam would go west connecting the people Amelie could not. (In a way this means Bridget/Amelie shares blame in the Homo Demens' terrorist attacks, i.e. the destruction of Middle Knot, Fragile's body, etc - but Bridget/Amelie was of the mindset all would go extinct soon anyways.)
Regarding the very end, when Lou is revived, we see white BT babies... I wonder if Bridget/Amelie played a role saving this Lou as well? And they're standing exposed to timefall at the end... So I guess the effects of chiralium in the atmosphere is beginning to lessen with the sealing of Amelie's Beach?
Some of the lore is still fuzzy to me, but man, such a powerful ending. Kojima was wise to explain the mystical mumbo jumbo in the penultimate chapter so that he could close with heartfelt human drama in Chapter 14. Good stuff.
What I'm not clear on is what Bridget/Amelie was planning to do with the chiral network at the time. She speaks of being drawn in different directions by different dreams. The chiral network would rebuild the nation, but by merging people's Beaches it would also set the stage for mass extinction, allowing antimatter to pour into the world en masse. As an EE, it's in her nature to bring about the latter, but was her original intent with the network simply to rebuild rather than destroy? Also, I take it she wore the mask on the off-chance an outsider witnessed her at the facility, perhaps wishing to conceal the president's direct involvement in the BB project.
At any rate, I'm thoroughly impressed by how everything was resolved. I wish we got closure on Heartman finding his family, and Lockne/Mama are relatively sidelined after Episode 5, but the story otherwise tied up things nicely. There's a poignant lingering "will they meet again" quality to the relationship between Sam and Fragile, and a warm touching "lonely man finds love" quality to the friendship between Deadman and Sam, culminating in Sam initiating the hug at the end. Die-Hardman and Cliff are beautifully empathetic portrayals, and I appreciate that you can rewatch their scenes in Sam's private room. Higgs was a total ham, but his mustache-twirling villainy is retroactively made interesting by the revelation that Bridget/Amelie recruited him, creating a scenario where Higgs would play the villain and Sam would go west connecting the people Amelie could not. (In a way this means Bridget/Amelie shares blame in the Homo Demens' terrorist attacks, i.e. the destruction of Middle Knot, Fragile's body, etc - but Bridget/Amelie was of the mindset all would go extinct soon anyways.)
Regarding the very end, when Lou is revived, we see white BT babies... I wonder if Bridget/Amelie played a role saving this Lou as well? And they're standing exposed to timefall at the end... So I guess the effects of chiralium in the atmosphere is beginning to lessen with the sealing of Amelie's Beach?
Some of the lore is still fuzzy to me, but man, such a powerful ending. Kojima was wise to explain the mystical mumbo jumbo in the penultimate chapter so that he could close with heartfelt human drama in Chapter 14. Good stuff.
I thought it was a pretty hilarious wink, she *literally* spells it out for you. As she's figuratively spelling out the whole story.
I finished up today and loved it. I'm so glad I took my time with it.
Higgs would play the part of Amelie's captor/pursuer, which would motivate Sam to go west and connect the people who originally refused to join the Chiral Network. In doing so, Sam would unwittingly merge the Beaches of every American so that Amelie the EE could wipe out everyone.
But ya know, why even bring Sam into it endangering her adopted son plenty. She lead the first expedition just fine and even got them past all the BTs as explicitly mentioned. And since she never got actually captured, she could have lead the second expedition too that was on standby before Central Knot got blown up at the start. Waiting for Sam wasn't needed and probably slowed the whole affair down :P
However, I think I know the explanation Kojima was going for at least. Amelie explicitly mentions she stalled a lot and in the final flashback when you are with her it is shown that she made Sam promise her as a child that it would be him to finally stop her. So she mainly wanted to fullfill that prophecy, so it had to be Sam to make that track and no one else, because ultimately, she didn't want to destroy the world. It's probably a bit of a split personality thing where her good side made Sam be the ultimate fail-safe to make her stop.
It's still a bit contrived, but I can accept this. And I guess to motivate him Higgs had to come into play, although it's still pretty shitty to claim so many innocent lives, but that might be her EE side doing it
Neiteio Amelie absolutely saved Lou - she's holding her Quipu when she comes back.
As for the white floating babies, I took this as the inverse of the 5 floating EE's - each time life was assaulted by an Extinction Entity, it found a way to survive and move forward. If Amelie is the sixth EE, Lou in that particular shot is meant to be the sixth resurgence of life.
As for the white floating babies, I took this as the inverse of the 5 floating EE's - each time life was assaulted by an Extinction Entity, it found a way to survive and move forward. If Amelie is the sixth EE, Lou in that particular shot is meant to be the sixth resurgence of life.
Sam also does a totally sweet roll in that scene if you jump off a rock.. which I don't remember from the game when he had his backpack and Odradeck.
Speaking of which Odradeck is a great character.
Hi all, just beat the game and tried finding an answer to this question in here but couldn't find any responses: how are there two Sams in the physical world (BB or 'Lou', and Sam Porter Bridges)? Or did I interpret something wrong?
The memories when Sam plugged into BB were coming from BB, right? Which means BB should also be Sam, but there's also the grown Sam that we've been playing as. I still don't understand how there can be two Sams. From what I understood, Bridge Babies don't age, but are basically turned off/put out of commission after a certain time. Was BB/Lou not being used until near the beginning events of the game?
When Sam dies/repatriates, does a brand new body get created, or does he basically teleport? HOW ARE THERE TWO SAMS? Someone help me understand this or help me figure out what I'm missing, I'm going crazy!
The memories when Sam plugged into BB were coming from BB, right? Which means BB should also be Sam, but there's also the grown Sam that we've been playing as. I still don't understand how there can be two Sams. From what I understood, Bridge Babies don't age, but are basically turned off/put out of commission after a certain time. Was BB/Lou not being used until near the beginning events of the game?
When Sam dies/repatriates, does a brand new body get created, or does he basically teleport? HOW ARE THERE TWO SAMS? Someone help me understand this or help me figure out what I'm missing, I'm going crazy!
BB or 'Lou' is not Sam, just a random BB. Sam -was- a BB in the past, but no longer (obviously).
The memories when Sam plugged into the BB were coming from Sam, not Lou.
Ah, thank you. How are you supposed to infer that whenever Sam is plugging into BB it's his own memories and not BB's? Was it implied that they were BB's memories just to throw you off in the beginning?
Correct, that was the 'twist'. The game makes you think they are Lou's memories until the end when it's revealed that it's you. It's weird, the game needlessly spells out tons of stuff to the player but never really talks about how Lou is just some random BB.
More room for Kojima to retcon the "true origin of Lou" in a sequel or prequel in 10 years! Lol.
In all honesty, the plot for this game is pretty tame for Kojima's standards. Like the ending was pretty straightforward for the most part. Just like MGS1, this will probably be the most "grounded" and if he ever decides to do sequels, I expect the plot to really go ham lol.
I finished the game last night and thought I'd share how I feel about the game right now.
- Solid ending and wraps up nicely
- Great final delivery with BB's theme and the zoomed out camera
- Could've done without the fucking "running on the beach and ending up in the same place" thing during chapter 13
- Sort of saw a few things coming, but that's to be expected because Kojima's storytelling style always has someone explaining everything at the end, and the people close to you not being who they really are. It's fine rn, but if he keeps doing it, it'll get boring
- Higgs's actual boss fight should've been half the length since yer doing essentially the same thing over and over, and it felt like that he wasn't evolving and it got boring really quick. The one before that, with the giant, was decent, and the whale one was visually great as well.
- This wasn't like MGS 2 for me, that made me really think about everything around me, and all that. It's because of the writing, I think, because the core message of the game, which is still connections and survival, is dictated to you so many times, that it doesn't have the same impact as I would've wanted by the end.
- The gameplay is decent for the most part, but it has some lows, and I do feel like there are some unnecessary annoyances, that only lead to frustration rather than presenting you with a challenge.
- I didn't like encountering the BTs at all, and those felt more annoying than challenging.
- The social strand system is def the standout aspect of this game.
- Terrible boss fights for 90% of the time, and it's incredibly disappointing because we've seen some extremely creative bosses in previous Kojima titles
That reminded me of the "explanation" of the word "Amelie". That's the worst thing I heard for years in a video game, it was even worse than the whole "I may be fragile but I'm not fragile".
That part really took me out of the game. It felt like kojima literally sat me down and literally spelled out the name to explain it.
Probably because he sat me down and spelled it in-game too lol
I felt like it was just to show all the BB's who had been sacrificed kind of watching over you.
What a strong ending though. At a certain point i got very frustrated and turned it down to very easy to just power to the end, but i am glad i did. I hope sony keeps funding more games and this at least does well enough to justify it. There just isn't anyone making games with this strong of a visual direction quality. To add to that, the combination of extremely strong world building were it's two best features.
at first i was frustrated that there is such a large lack of good stories packed into the game, all these characters and it's just frustratingly devoid of anything really hard-hitting for characters, but that ending 4 hours really REALLY made up for it.
Just heard the spoilercast from IGN about death stranding and it reminded how really weird that game is. With one thing they are absolutely right: this is an original story that you probably haven't heard before and that is one of the reasons why I think it is great. Trying new things is always great.
Finished the game over a week ago, but wanted to give some time to percolate on it before going in on it.
With MGSV, I was beginning to get bad feels about Kojima as a writer, and with Death Stranding I think he's done and needs to step back and collaborate. Death Stranding feels like a fever dream he had one night, committed to a note book, and just assumed his genius would be able to wrangle into a full videogame narrative as they developed it. Instead it is a convoluted mess that doesn't even execute on its few themes well, dragged up almost entirely by Mads and Tommie Earl's performances. Reedus was alright, but forced into a Snake mold he never fit. Now the real picking:
- The Chiral Network, supposedly needing the bandwidth of time-travel through the Beach, never amounts to more than a slightly beefed up present day fiber broadband. It never justifies its existence, the Q-pid system is never actually explained beyond a macguffin you have to replace, and the entire premise of them "not setting it up properly" the first time through is thinly veiled nonsense needed for videogame activities. Worse still is when its revealed a BB is the node required to build it, a sacrifice. After Sam is revealed to be a BB himself, and he frees Lou as a BB, I guess that plot point is just neatly forgotten and no need to worry about that other BB we plugged in to Edge Knot City. American citizens need to 3D print their sex dolls at 100mbps after all.
- Much of the games names for things felt like first draft markers to be replaced with actual names later. DOOMS is never actually explained as an acronym anywhere, other than some characters just having a case of sad dreams and weird phobias. Sam Porter Bridges, his name changing to suit what company he was working for, pointed to a sort of medieval societal system of naming people after their trade. Except many other characters don't follow this naming convention, nor is it ever established as a part of the world. Then of course later on its revealed Lisa's surname was Bridges anyway, so its all some Kojima shit metaphor that is about as deep as the distance from his eyes to his own nose. Die Hardman's real name being John McLane actually made me suspend my PS4 for 30 minutes while I waited for my eyeballs to roll back the right way round from out of their sockets. Bridget Strand/Samantha America Strand being the name of the entity thats about to bring about The Last STRANDing? It rhymes. Like poetry. Imagine working at KojiPro and knowing this is absolute dogshit writing, but just having to shrug to camera.
- Higg's terrorist group is never incorporated into gameplay. They've completely disappeared by the end of the game, unless you want to count one of the MULE camps with guns as a group of his. Its probably just as well because DS felt like a huge leap backwards from MGS4 when KojiPro had western employees help with making great third person shooter controls all the way through to MGSV. DS when it gets to the shooting elements feels like a PS2 game in strange ways.
- Bosses were just a mess. The initial squid boss and maybe The Big Man boss we're fairly competent, but a far cry from the incredible boss experiences KojiPro used to be renowned for. A squid, a lion, a big man, and a whale. Failing to execute on the 5 Extinctions theme by making them all reflect a past extinction feels particularly insane, considering we could have had a dinosaur battle in the Decima engine, imagine that eh. Higgs and Sam getting fighter health bars was a bad recycle of MGS4's, and just ended up feeling like Kojima is tapped out. No YOU'RE damaged goods!!
- Character arcs that went nowhere is the name of the game. Let's not even touch upon Sam's dead wife remaining a smudge the entire game. I think Fragile is about the only one to get a full arc. The pacing of the introduction of the rest of the cast of Sam's Best Buddies Ever is so poorly implemented, I thought I'd missed Heartman's somehow as I was two thirds through the game and yet to see his house. His own subplot of searching for his family has no resolution beyond an e-mail that he's hooked up with a woman with Spade as a surname. Why not go the whole hog Kojima and have them get a dog named Ace, and plan on calling their first child Club? Too afraid? COWARDICE. Deadman as a character never resonated with me because he was aggressively telling you to shitcan the BB for the first third of the game, and then sort of casually explained he was a test tube baby and that he made himself a frankenstein from other corpses and also that he doesn't have a soul so no fun Beach times for him. It is okay though because there is a funny shower scene where Sam bonds with the monster. Also Deadman spoiled Mama 'dying' as when I turned in a memory chip, he said it would have been something Mama would have appreciated. GEE THANKS DEL TORO. Die Hardman's emotional breakdown sequence being great aside, I don't even know if he knew Sam was Mad's BB? If he didn't, that requires him to have Plot Amnesia. Mads is the real core of the games narrative, but its never revealed why he gets to be a conventional angry ghost and not a BT, while everyone else is relegated to floating melty things. Ssh, do not think, only feelings now.
-Amelie deserves her own section, because she's by far the worst part of the entire game. For The Big Ol' Twisty, everyone involved has to have Plot Amnesia and Plot Stupidity for it to even vaguely work. Sam's relationship with his mother is bizarrely angry, offset by his weird romantic relationship with his step-sister who he was never seen in real life ever. No cutscenes ever really sell Amelie of having a split personality capable of also working with Higgs to bring about the Last Stranding in the most despicable way possible either. I couldn't personally ever reconcile the games hard sci fi basis with the lazy explanation of there still being a magic based God system, and that Amelie was just randomly an Extinction Entity. The games end is just some weird delay on humanity's extinction with her just waiting a bit longer because thats the nice thing to do? It goes back to my assumption this games plot was just a fever dream. Dreams typically don't have conclusions, and thats why it felt impossible for Death Stranding's plot to conclude. BT's seemed to flip flop from being ghosts of dead people to anti matter projections of ourselves from another dimension. If we stopped the Stranding supposedly, why were we taking to Lou to the incinerator, because presumably we'd stopped all this necro business for a bit? If not, Sams right, everythings still mega shit, whats the point.
-WE NEVER WENT TO THE FUCKING MOON. No, seeing the Earth in the background of Amelie's beach doesn't count. You don't keep setting up the Moon as a location with Mads bedtime story, the concept of Ludens astronauts, and so on, and then not contrive your already nonsense plot to send us to the moon somehow. That could have been Higgs master plot, to trick you into entering a 3d printed rocket, shooting you to the moon, and then have fun repatriating in space, fucko! Maybe Mads could have taken us to the moon after Vietnam. Just something. It didn't help that pre-release, I had just assumed we were going to the Moon and Mars already with some of the environments shown. Interplanetary internet is something that would have at least vaguely explained the need for the Chiral network. Just say Sam doesn't breathe like other DOOMS, and thats why they get to be porters. Oh well eh.
-Gameplay systems and stuff that felt either tacked on or barely finished. The Oxygen Mask being used for precisely one little area at the end of the mountain and nothing else. Great design chops. The truck wanting to go sideways at the slightest hint of an incline. There being a way to color scheme your private room, but only if you build and fully upgrade your own safe house (no small feat) somewhere on the map (cant remember if its only for post-game too), making it effectively pointless. The BB nightmares amounting to exactly 2, which replay over and over again. No real need to use the Shower grenades as you get Hermetics so quickly afterwards anyway. Needing to get caught and dragged by a BT to cross the Tar Belt was the games only one "oh, actually clever!" moment for me, considering all other combat encounters were just padded and bad. The penultimate boss being a whale that did nothing is still just bizarre, and symptomatic of Kojima being obsessed with whales and Moby Dick due to the whole Konami imposion.
Whew. The core gameplay loop of package delivery was fun, as was building roads and ziplines, but everything narrative dragged the entire experience down in to shit town. I hated Low Roar by the end of the game, so if that was the mission statement of overdoing that 20 times, consider it accomplished.
HOW AMERICAN.
With MGSV, I was beginning to get bad feels about Kojima as a writer, and with Death Stranding I think he's done and needs to step back and collaborate. Death Stranding feels like a fever dream he had one night, committed to a note book, and just assumed his genius would be able to wrangle into a full videogame narrative as they developed it. Instead it is a convoluted mess that doesn't even execute on its few themes well, dragged up almost entirely by Mads and Tommie Earl's performances. Reedus was alright, but forced into a Snake mold he never fit. Now the real picking:
- The Chiral Network, supposedly needing the bandwidth of time-travel through the Beach, never amounts to more than a slightly beefed up present day fiber broadband. It never justifies its existence, the Q-pid system is never actually explained beyond a macguffin you have to replace, and the entire premise of them "not setting it up properly" the first time through is thinly veiled nonsense needed for videogame activities. Worse still is when its revealed a BB is the node required to build it, a sacrifice. After Sam is revealed to be a BB himself, and he frees Lou as a BB, I guess that plot point is just neatly forgotten and no need to worry about that other BB we plugged in to Edge Knot City. American citizens need to 3D print their sex dolls at 100mbps after all.
- Much of the games names for things felt like first draft markers to be replaced with actual names later. DOOMS is never actually explained as an acronym anywhere, other than some characters just having a case of sad dreams and weird phobias. Sam Porter Bridges, his name changing to suit what company he was working for, pointed to a sort of medieval societal system of naming people after their trade. Except many other characters don't follow this naming convention, nor is it ever established as a part of the world. Then of course later on its revealed Lisa's surname was Bridges anyway, so its all some Kojima shit metaphor that is about as deep as the distance from his eyes to his own nose. Die Hardman's real name being John McLane actually made me suspend my PS4 for 30 minutes while I waited for my eyeballs to roll back the right way round from out of their sockets. Bridget Strand/Samantha America Strand being the name of the entity thats about to bring about The Last STRANDing? It rhymes. Like poetry. Imagine working at KojiPro and knowing this is absolute dogshit writing, but just having to shrug to camera.
- Higg's terrorist group is never incorporated into gameplay. They've completely disappeared by the end of the game, unless you want to count one of the MULE camps with guns as a group of his. Its probably just as well because DS felt like a huge leap backwards from MGS4 when KojiPro had western employees help with making great third person shooter controls all the way through to MGSV. DS when it gets to the shooting elements feels like a PS2 game in strange ways.
- Bosses were just a mess. The initial squid boss and maybe The Big Man boss we're fairly competent, but a far cry from the incredible boss experiences KojiPro used to be renowned for. A squid, a lion, a big man, and a whale. Failing to execute on the 5 Extinctions theme by making them all reflect a past extinction feels particularly insane, considering we could have had a dinosaur battle in the Decima engine, imagine that eh. Higgs and Sam getting fighter health bars was a bad recycle of MGS4's, and just ended up feeling like Kojima is tapped out. No YOU'RE damaged goods!!
- Character arcs that went nowhere is the name of the game. Let's not even touch upon Sam's dead wife remaining a smudge the entire game. I think Fragile is about the only one to get a full arc. The pacing of the introduction of the rest of the cast of Sam's Best Buddies Ever is so poorly implemented, I thought I'd missed Heartman's somehow as I was two thirds through the game and yet to see his house. His own subplot of searching for his family has no resolution beyond an e-mail that he's hooked up with a woman with Spade as a surname. Why not go the whole hog Kojima and have them get a dog named Ace, and plan on calling their first child Club? Too afraid? COWARDICE. Deadman as a character never resonated with me because he was aggressively telling you to shitcan the BB for the first third of the game, and then sort of casually explained he was a test tube baby and that he made himself a frankenstein from other corpses and also that he doesn't have a soul so no fun Beach times for him. It is okay though because there is a funny shower scene where Sam bonds with the monster. Also Deadman spoiled Mama 'dying' as when I turned in a memory chip, he said it would have been something Mama would have appreciated. GEE THANKS DEL TORO. Die Hardman's emotional breakdown sequence being great aside, I don't even know if he knew Sam was Mad's BB? If he didn't, that requires him to have Plot Amnesia. Mads is the real core of the games narrative, but its never revealed why he gets to be a conventional angry ghost and not a BT, while everyone else is relegated to floating melty things. Ssh, do not think, only feelings now.
-Amelie deserves her own section, because she's by far the worst part of the entire game. For The Big Ol' Twisty, everyone involved has to have Plot Amnesia and Plot Stupidity for it to even vaguely work. Sam's relationship with his mother is bizarrely angry, offset by his weird romantic relationship with his step-sister who he was never seen in real life ever. No cutscenes ever really sell Amelie of having a split personality capable of also working with Higgs to bring about the Last Stranding in the most despicable way possible either. I couldn't personally ever reconcile the games hard sci fi basis with the lazy explanation of there still being a magic based God system, and that Amelie was just randomly an Extinction Entity. The games end is just some weird delay on humanity's extinction with her just waiting a bit longer because thats the nice thing to do? It goes back to my assumption this games plot was just a fever dream. Dreams typically don't have conclusions, and thats why it felt impossible for Death Stranding's plot to conclude. BT's seemed to flip flop from being ghosts of dead people to anti matter projections of ourselves from another dimension. If we stopped the Stranding supposedly, why were we taking to Lou to the incinerator, because presumably we'd stopped all this necro business for a bit? If not, Sams right, everythings still mega shit, whats the point.
-WE NEVER WENT TO THE FUCKING MOON. No, seeing the Earth in the background of Amelie's beach doesn't count. You don't keep setting up the Moon as a location with Mads bedtime story, the concept of Ludens astronauts, and so on, and then not contrive your already nonsense plot to send us to the moon somehow. That could have been Higgs master plot, to trick you into entering a 3d printed rocket, shooting you to the moon, and then have fun repatriating in space, fucko! Maybe Mads could have taken us to the moon after Vietnam. Just something. It didn't help that pre-release, I had just assumed we were going to the Moon and Mars already with some of the environments shown. Interplanetary internet is something that would have at least vaguely explained the need for the Chiral network. Just say Sam doesn't breathe like other DOOMS, and thats why they get to be porters. Oh well eh.
-Gameplay systems and stuff that felt either tacked on or barely finished. The Oxygen Mask being used for precisely one little area at the end of the mountain and nothing else. Great design chops. The truck wanting to go sideways at the slightest hint of an incline. There being a way to color scheme your private room, but only if you build and fully upgrade your own safe house (no small feat) somewhere on the map (cant remember if its only for post-game too), making it effectively pointless. The BB nightmares amounting to exactly 2, which replay over and over again. No real need to use the Shower grenades as you get Hermetics so quickly afterwards anyway. Needing to get caught and dragged by a BT to cross the Tar Belt was the games only one "oh, actually clever!" moment for me, considering all other combat encounters were just padded and bad. The penultimate boss being a whale that did nothing is still just bizarre, and symptomatic of Kojima being obsessed with whales and Moby Dick due to the whole Konami imposion.
Whew. The core gameplay loop of package delivery was fun, as was building roads and ziplines, but everything narrative dragged the entire experience down in to shit town. I hated Low Roar by the end of the game, so if that was the mission statement of overdoing that 20 times, consider it accomplished.
HOW AMERICAN.
Haha, that is damn good.
I was thinking about the whole repatriate thing during the Big Man fight. What was Higgs trying to accomplish? Sam was just going to respawn so why try killing him? I died during it in frustrating fashion (didn't notice myself being dragged down into the tar while trying to aim directly upwards at it's face) and that made me think of it. They "cover that base" later in the 1v1 Higgs v Sam fight on the beach where Higgs says they'll be gone if they die there, but that wasn't the case during Big Man.
Higgs was just being used my Amelie to focus UCA/bridges/sam towards a central antagonist. he is nothing more than a badguy for everyone to worry about while she gets you to spread the network for her own purposes. going by that, higgs never acted on his own, he was specifically making it "seem" like he was trying to accomplish stuff. he knew you'd repatriate and it was all a show to make Amelie look like a victim. (hence why she was trapped inside the giant)
I know this is the spoiler thread, and sorry if this has been asked and answered a million times, but just in case...
After the main credits, you're back in the private room two weeks before the inauguration. Is there a "true ending" still to come, or is this just the game's way of letting us keep playing? If there is a reason to keep playing, does it take long to get there? Also, if it's something cool or even somewhat interesting, please don't tell me what happens.