And buzzfeed's piece on it
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....world-cup-reporter-kissed-female-fans-russian
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Debate regarding sexual harassment as male Korean reporter kissed by two women
- Thread starter Bleepey
- Start date
And buzzfeed's piece on it
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....world-cup-reporter-kissed-female-fans-russian
In B4 “it’s not the same. It’s a Man. Men are always willing!”
That doesn’t make it appropriate.
Pretty much. Such interactions often feel more predatory when the genders are flipped because of the likely power imbalance, but the raw baseline issue is the same.
Would you say the same thing if it were a Woman? honest question
The thing is, I don’t necessarily disagree. But it’s inconsistent. If the genders were reversed, you’d see outrage from the onset. Regardless of that context. That’s all I’m saying
Just because the victim doesn't make their concerns public doesn't mean it's not sexual harassment.
Actually yes. I am not saying that what the girls did was right. It is harassment. But if the man who was harassed laughed at the action, and says that it was ok, then I won’t be upset about it.
I saw another reporter at the World Cup (female) that was kissed and I think groped as well. That is harassment as well and she had every right to press charges or not if she decided.
I think that's sexual harassment. Pretty clear it was unsolicited.
It's ultimately up to the reporter to press charges though. Not buying it that he enjoyed it, too. His laugh could be nervous laughter.
It's ultimately up to the reporter to press charges though. Not buying it that he enjoyed it, too. His laugh could be nervous laughter.
If the woman had no issue with it whatsoever? Then yeah I would say the same thing too.
Its wrong to do of course, but its down to the person to decide if they are okay with it or not. Not us.
if the female reporter seemed geniunely laughy and smiley about it, then i dont think people would be flipping out in that case either.
a girl grabbed my ass in an elevator recently. i turned around, noticed she was hot, said "thanks", and got off at my stop. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
i mean, sure it's objectively inappropriate, but in that particular instance it was apparently a win win for both sides.
There's been enough cases where victims have felt social pressure to appear "okay" with harassment that we should be strong enough to say, "Yes, that's sexual harassment" without the "but..."
Of course the victim should be allowed to decide whether to press charges or not (depending on if the jurisdiction has laws that would allow charges to be pressed,) but that's the same as with any other crime.
Harassment. If that guy were me I'd be pretty fucking pissed. I'm reporting on the world cup, half a world away from my partner, and she sees me getting mooched on TV by two folks with no explanation? While I probably wouldn't be personally unsettled (though he has every right to be), I would be very worried about what my partner would think of the situation.
Yep, especially because he was in the middle of a shoot. If he has a problem with it he might not feel comfortable stopping the team and others to deal with it.
Really the only answer.
What if it were two men doing the kissing? There wouldn't be a debate.
It's always harassment. Even if the person who gets harassed doesn't have a problem with it. If you're gonna do something like that you gotta be prepared for the person to not be ok with it.
Can we at least pick our battles and point out instances where this clearly wasn't ok? Like the guy who went up and groped a South American journalist on camera. That was gross. There is a different power dynamic between men and women where men can be very imposing and have a history of being aggressive and threatening. Also a social dynamic of being a man is being the one who initiates and leads intimate actions but with consent from the woman. Breaking this rule even during jokes on camera in public is seen as taboo by most and rightfully so. It is blatant blindness to try and equalize the genders in this case and say they are the same. Actually look at reality, the social dynamics of the genders, and tell me the actions of women vs men on average in these cases warrants playing these intellectual games of "what if it was reversed!" The rules about these are harsher on men for a reason. Most men won't have the same kind of emotional reaction to this where it bothers them though depending on the situation. This stuff isn't one rule fits all. I'm not excusing instances where men felt harassed by women but am trying to make the point that you can't think of these things like it's some sort of black and white has to be equal situation. Know the terrain! There are contradictions in this domain when the roles are reversed. That's just a fact of reality. Not everyone will feel the same about this particular instance. People will feel different about different situations. Does anyone think these women actually went up with the intent to harass him? I'm all for respecting people's boundaries but am also comfortable with these contradictions where depending on the situation there are guys who wont be bothered at all by this. All evidence regarding this seems to point in this direction.
I acknowledge the double-standard, but honestly I think it's fair to say it's worse when men do it to women, because, historically, that's what has happened more frequently. I'm not saying either situation is okay though.
I mean clearly she is not a threat, no abuse of power dynamics there.
Pick your battles and all that and just continue living your life.
Edit: beaten? Well thanks a lot puppy lol
Can someone explain this "power imbalance" justification for sexual harassment? Regardless of the gender permutations, the reporter and the harasser have no established power dynamic. The reporter is just doing their jobs. The harasser is just a random person. What power does one have over the other, and how is that changed when the genders change?
Edit: So as I understand Widdle Puppy's post, it's because:
To which I would say:
Edit: So as I understand Widdle Puppy's post, it's because:
- Men are stronger/bigger than women
- Men are historically more prone to harass
- Men like it
To which I would say:
- Size doesn't matter for harassment
- Historical trends don't excuse individual events
- That's exactly the social pressure I was talking about
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I mean I don't condone unsolicited advances, period, but I do feel it's a tad less threatening for us men than it is for women. It's not always the case of course, but generally speaking men are more capable of physically stopping the assault, and that makes a big difference IMHO.
Still harassment is harassment and this reporter would be justified in being upset about it.
Agreed. Using "power imbalance" as some sort of excuse seems flimsy to me.
You've used a word that I've been avoiding, but is entirely appropriate here. Assault is assault. Harassment is harassment. Using the physical size/strength of the victim to excuse the perpetrator is disgusting and ignores the very real physical and mental harm that can be caused despite physical size differences.
I mean we clearly are in agreement. But I know I'd feel exponentially less threatened being assaulted by someone who I can physically restrain, fully knowing it's not going any further.
You may think its harrassment, but the real question is; did the reporter feel harrassed? If not, no harrassment.
Here's the issue with your interpretation. How do you know who is going to feel harassed before you do this? Unless you're a mind reader or can see the future, don't do it.
It is harassment/assault, end of story.
That said, it is "funny" that we (this forum) are asking this only when it happens to a guy, and ignore it when it happens to a woman. Men continue to only care about other men, and not give a shit about women, evidently.
That said, it is "funny" that we (this forum) are asking this only when it happens to a guy, and ignore it when it happens to a woman. Men continue to only care about other men, and not give a shit about women, evidently.
So wait, is harassment now okay to try on anyone and see if they like it after the fact? What the hell kind of an opinion is this?
Really? I seem to recall the board was pretty well aligned in giving a shit when it happened to the woman reporter earlier this World Cup.
Honestly, this community has always had problems with men and sexual harassment. Just search any "female teacher sleeps with male student" thread. You'll get some dumb shit on the first page, every time
Im not interpreting, I'm making an observation on what happened. Reporter clearly wasn't harrassed. He found it amusing.
No of course not. But far be it for me to tell someone they've been harrassed when clearly they feel otherwise.
As a general rule, people shouldn't be interupting someone trying to do their job. This time it turned out ok, both parties seemed ok with it all.
Who added the Mario sound effects in that video? Maybe they're the real criminal here.
It's harassment, but the guy doesn't seem to care, at least outwardly. I guess it's up to him to judge the scenario.
This is what I think about every time someone asks what if the genders were reversed. People would react differently because it would be different. Two men kissing a woman would be another instance in a long history of men making unwanted physical contact with women. Men, on average, are much less likely to care about something like this, so there is less outrage.
I think the point here is don't encourage or endorse the behavior regardless of how the individual felt about it because not everyone will feel the same way. Not sure I see the controversy there.