Deducing PS5 Pro GPU and memory via math.

DukeBlueBall · May 7, 2023

dgrdsv said:
Zen4 peaks at 5.7 for an ST workload in a 170W socket. That's about 3/4 of what a console consume and then there's the GPU to consider.
There is no way it will run at such clocks. Expect something way lower, like 4.5 or so.

Not really. 45TFs on RDNA3 is faster than 22.5TFs on RDNA2, not equivalent. Due to how this is implemented it is far from being 2X faster and is closer to being 1.25x or so. Still it's not equivalent, and on a console it may end up being better utilized than on PC.

Also not sure what RDNA3/4 means. We don't have anything on RDNA4 yet so we can't just lump them together like this.
For a console which is in development now I think it's unlikely to be using anything but RDNA3 (or even 2, since Sony's b/c is still h/w based for all we know).

2-3x gains in RT are impossible without a similar gain in memory bandwidth. I think you're missing the critical piece there - bigger caches. It is very likely that the Pro will get IC for the GPU (instead of the useless 4GBs of LPDDR5). Even then though I'd expect RT to improve in line with FLOPs gains (accounting for 2 vs 3 differences) since we're talking about RDNA.

All in all the way PS5 can scale is the biggest reason why I doubt that PS5Pro is necessary or a thing even. A "Pro+slim" is an interesting concept though and it does make some sense. Just don't expect any "xX gains" from it, these will likely be in +XX% range.

Thanks man. It seems that one can op for higher bw using gddr6x and gddr7 instead of using infinity cache or vice versa. Since both configs have die size under 300mm2, maybe it makes sense to go for slower ram and 128mb of infinity cache.

Lausebub · May 7, 2023

The question should be, what does Sony want to achieve with the pro version? The PS5 will probably still most games at 4k or scaled up 4k. Native 4k or 8k are not really something people are interested in. Better raytracing performance is also not a huge selling point for most people. 60 fps would be a good selling point but costly to achieve and not as easy on developers.

Andromeda · May 7, 2023

I don't think 4GB of DDR5 would be necessary as it would be more than PS5 OS footprint. Besides in the case of PS4 Pro they used 0.5GB of DDR3 for OS but only for some kind of stuff: the application running on the system.

Ambient · May 7, 2023

Love the lead up to hardware. Bring on the ridiculous expectations.

DukeBlueBall · May 7, 2023

Andromeda said:
I don't think 4GB of DDR5 would be necessary as it would be more than PS5 OS footprint. Besides in the case of PS4 Pro they used 0.5GB of DDR3 for OS but only for some kind of stuff: the application running on the system.

PS5 OS is 4GB according to Digital foundry.

bitcloudrzr · May 7, 2023

DukeBlueBall said:
PS5 OS is 4GB according to Digital foundry.

Specifically 3.5gb because I remember them saying PS5 has 12.5gb for games.

Andromeda · May 7, 2023

DukeBlueBall said:
PS5 OS is 4GB according to Digital foundry.

Where? I thought they said 12.5 GB for the games? And don't expect this to stay like this for the whole gen. Sony increased ram amount for games in most of their consoles. I know this happened for Vita, PS3 and PS4 consoles SKU.

anexanhume · May 7, 2023

I would imagine a PS5 Pro going chiplet. Double up the CU count. You could do a single chiplet running in legacy mode to do an OG PS5 config.

DukeBlueBall · May 7, 2023

Andromeda said:
Where? I thought they said 12.5 GB for the games? And don't expect this to stay like this for the whole gen. Sony increased ram amount for games in most of their consoles. I know this happened for Vita, PS3 and PS4 consoles SKU.

Sorry you are right.

Well 4GB covers 3.5 and I don't think 3.5GB ddr5 configurations exist, at least not comfortablely.

Perhaps they go with 320bit bus, 20GB of gddr6 at 16gbps for 640GB/s to feed a 36 cu rdna3 GPU running at close to 3ghz.

GameAddict411 · May 7, 2023

anexanhume said:
I would imagine a PS5 Pro going chiplet. Double up the CU count. You could do a single chiplet running in legacy mode to do an OG PS5 config.

that's not how chiplets work today at least for AMD. They can only have cache on islands for GPUs because the connections to wire up compute units together far out weighs the benefit of the chiplet design. RDNA3 use chiplets just for cache.

Diarrhea Day-Lewis · May 7, 2023

Oh man I don't want this. Really see no point in it and would rather they wait until next gen. Like they're selling out fast as they can and they are selling 30% of all consoles to people who didn't have a ps4, they really do not even need this.

Honestly it seems they could just not make a pro, and even let Xbox and Nintendo make more powerful consoles or Pros and they'd do Just as well

My hope is a slim that's much smaller sometime soon

dgrdsv · May 7, 2023

Andromeda said:
Sony released PS4 Pro with Vega features (like rapid packed math) before the actuall AMD Vega GPU was released. We have historical reasons to think Sony might do a similar thing and use RDNA4 features in PS5 Pro.

Depends on the features, and Vega wasn't the first GCN arch to features RPM either.

Vimto said:
Isnt XBOX/PS5 using RDNA 2 which was released at the same time as the cards?

Not really. PS5 is using a subset of RDNA2 features (no VRS support for example) and both are cut down compared to RDNA2 (no LLC cache). In this sense PS5Pro may use something available to semicustom from upcoming desktop chips but it is not guaranteed (depends on cost of implementation).

DukeBlueBall · May 7, 2023

NeoBob688 said:
What would be the GeForce card equivalent in terms of raster and RT performance of configuration 2?

4070 simply because Nvidia so far ahead of AMD due to RT and DLSS.

Cali32 · May 7, 2023

Not sure if this info about the additional 512MB of DDR4 poof of RAM is legit or not: https://thegadgetbuyer.com/what-ram-does-the-ps5-have/

The PS5 has two pools of RAM: a main pool of 16 GB GDDR6 SDRAM and a secondary pool of 512 MB DDR4 SDRAM Memory. The main pool is used at high bandwidth rates for high-performance gaming. The secondary pool is used for background tasks performed by the operating system.

Hyun Sai · May 7, 2023

Or you could just ask Jez Corden

score01 · May 7, 2023

Hyun Sai said:
Or you could just ask Jez Corden

😂

PLASTICA-MAN · May 7, 2023

Hey OP this is the same post of yours from ther isnide gaming thread but now you reduced the bandwitdh. No way they gonan keep the same amount of VRAM and that very low bandiwtdh it gonna be a huge bottleneck. Same as how people tjhink they gonna keep the Zen 2. Not gonna happen. If we base the expectations on the RDNA4 leaks (take it witha grain of salt): https://www.resetera.com/threads/in...lease-late-2024.696733/page-23#post-102851719 we gonna have GDDR7 with RDNA4.

I am sure Sony and Cerny will keep the very high clock speed idea of the GPU so expect 3.5 Ghz for it like all RDNA4 and if they double the CUs which means 72 working Cus then you get 64 Tflops through the double power increase of the RDNA 4. This half the power of the highest GPU to come next year so by default next year a PS5 Pro is already mid-range for AMD GPUs and for what to come form Nvidia so don't think this drunk BS insanity. But I will settle for something over 30 TFlops to assure decent RT jump.

So in sum 72 CU x 3500 Mhz x 64 x 2 x 2 (double precision of RDNA4) we get= 64,51 Tfliops from RDNA4
If they don't double the CUs : 36 x 3500 x 64 x 2 = 32,25 Tflops RDNA4

If RDNA 3 we expect at leats 2500 Mhz GPU boost so
72 x 2500 x 64 x 2 = 23,04. Tflops rdna3 That io a very small jump that won't bestow huge advnatges so no way they gonna stay with with RDNA3? jusrt bosst GPU clock and double CU. Only smart ways is to jump to RDNA4 and GDDR7 to profit from the newer GDDR and get theadequate GPU clock speed boost and double the performance. Hence waiting till end of next year to launch

As for the price. No way Sony will launch it for 500 bucks. Thinsg have changed since. PS5 added extra 50 bucks in Europe and PSVR2 is the same price to assure high end quality.
PS5 Pro will be at least 550-600 price sold missing the disc readers as a standard model and if anyone wants to get disc reader, paying 100 bucks is needed.

Praedyth · May 7, 2023

Can't they just slap a bespoke RT accelerator and call it a day? I find it hard they doubling stuff with the buttlerfly trick, it would be too expensive and there's nothing novel about just updating the architecture. PS4 to PS5 brought a new paradigm with those variable frequencies, I expect something that ingenious for the Pro/PS6.

I like the dedicated RAM for the system, seems like a good way to get more RAM for games.

DukeBlueBall · May 7, 2023

Cali32 said:
Not sure if this info about the additional 512MB of DDR4 poof of RAM is legit or not: https://thegadgetbuyer.com/what-ram-does-the-ps5-have/

Andromeda bitcloudrzr that's why I thought it was 4GB. I had forgotten the exact reason.

For the PS5 pro they can easily increase this pool to 4GB with a larger bus (resulting in higher bw) and move some of the OS stuff over.

JahIthBer · May 7, 2023

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Hey OP this is the same post of yours from ther isnide gaming thread but now you reduced the bandwitdh. No way they gonan keep the same amount of VRAM and that very low bandiwtdh it gonna be a huge bottleneck. Same as how people tjhink they gonna keep the Zen 2. Not gonna happen. If we base the expectations on the RDNA4 leaks (take it witha grain of salt): https://www.resetera.com/threads/in...lease-late-2024.696733/page-23#post-102851719 we gonna have GDDR7 with RDNA4.

I am sure Sony and Cerny will keep the very high clock speed idea of the GPU so expect 3.5 Ghz for it like all RDNA4 and if they double the CUs which means 72 working Cus then you get 64 Tflops through the double power increase of the RDNA 4. This half the power of the highest GPU to come next year so by default next year a PS5 Pro is already mid-range for AMD GPUs and for what to come form Nvidia so don't think this drunk BS insanity. But I will settle for something over 30 TFlops to assure decent RT jump.

So in sum 72 CU x 3500 Mhz x 64 x 2 x 2 (double precision of RDNA4) we get= 64,51 Tfliops from RDNA4
If they don't double the CUs : 36 x 3500 x 64 x 2 = 32,25 Tflops RDNA4

If RDNA 3 we expect at leats 2500 Mhz GPU boost so
72 x 2500 x 64 x 2 = 23,04. Tflops rdna3 That io a very small jump that won't bestow huge advnatges so no way they gonna stay with with RDNA3? jusrt bosst GPU clock and double CU. Only smart ways is to jump to RDNA4 and GDDR7 to profit from the newer GDDR and get theadequate GPU clock speed boost and double the performance. Hence waiting till end of next year to launch

As for the price. No way Sony will launch it for 500 bucks. Thinsg have changed since. PS5 added extra 50 bucks in Europe and PSVR2 is the same price to assure high end quality.
PS5 Pro will be at least 550-600 price sold missing the disc readers as a standard model and if anyone wants to get disc reader, paying 100 bucks is needed.

GDDR7 would be too expensive and new. It would be cheaper at that point to chuck in infinity cache or possibly implement more RDNA4 architectural improvements (if it doesn't break compatibility)
4070 Ti has almost half the bandwidth compared to the 12GB 3080 despite the 4070 Ti comfortably beating the 3080.

RivalGT · May 7, 2023

Lausebub said:
The question should be, what does Sony want to achieve with the pro version? The PS5 will probably still most games at 4k or scaled up 4k. Native 4k or 8k are not really something people are interested in. Better raytracing performance is also not a huge selling point for most people. 60 fps would be a good selling point but costly to achieve and not as easy on developers.

Selling more consoles is their main goal I think, systems like this one are not typically for the mass market. But Sony more than anyone would know if the market wants a pro system. As for the selling point, I'm sure Sony will find one, its new hardware, thats usually good enough for most who are interested in this type of hardware.

bitcloudrzr · May 7, 2023

JahIthBer said:
GDDR7 would be too expensive and new. It would be cheaper at that point to chuck in infinity cache or possibly implement more RDNA4 architectural improvements (if it doesn't break compatibility)
4070 Ti has almost half the bandwidth compared to the 12GB 3080 despite the 4070 Ti comfortably beating the 3080.

Would GDDR6X make more sense?

DukeBlueBall · May 7, 2023

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Hey OP this is the same post of yours from ther isnide gaming thread but now you reduced the bandwitdh. No way they gonan keep the same amount of VRAM and that very low bandiwtdh it gonna be a huge bottleneck. Same as how people tjhink they gonna keep the Zen 2. Not gonna happen. If we base the expectations on the RDNA4 leaks (take it witha grain of salt): https://www.resetera.com/threads/in...lease-late-2024.696733/page-23#post-102851719 we gonna have GDDR7 with RDNA4.

I am sure Sony and Cerny will keep the very high clock speed idea of the GPU so expect 3.5 Ghz for it like all RDNA4 and if they double the CUs which means 72 working Cus then you get 64 Tflops through the double power increase of the RDNA 4. This half the power of the highest GPU to come next year so by default next year a PS5 Pro is already mid-range for AMD GPUs and for what to come form Nvidia so don't think this drunk BS insanity. But I will settle for something over 30 TFlops to assure decent RT jump.

So in sum 72 CU x 3500 Mhz x 64 x 2 x 2 (double precision of RDNA4) we get= 64,51 Tfliops from RDNA4
If they don't double the CUs : 36 x 3500 x 64 x 2 = 32,25 Tflops RDNA4

If RDNA 3 we expect at leats 2500 Mhz GPU boost so
72 x 2500 x 64 x 2 = 23,04. Tflops rdna3 That io a very small jump that won't bestow huge advnatges so no way they gonna stay with with RDNA3? jusrt bosst GPU clock and double CU. Only smart ways is to jump to RDNA4 and GDDR7 to profit from the newer GDDR and get theadequate GPU clock speed boost and double the performance. Hence waiting till end of next year to launch

As for the price. No way Sony will launch it for 500 bucks. Thinsg have changed since. PS5 added extra 50 bucks in Europe and PSVR2 is the same price to assure high end quality.
PS5 Pro will be at least 550-600 price sold missing the disc readers as a standard model and if anyone wants to get disc reader, paying 100 bucks is needed.

GDDR7 will be prohibitively expense in 2024. GDDR5x was used in PC GPUs in Spring 2016 and yet the PS4 Pro and 1x still opted for faster gddr5.

Of the technology that Sony and MS traditionally have lagged behind PC, it has been the ram.

I expect them to use GDDR6x at best.

As for the vram, I freed up 3.5GBs of it by moving the OS to the 4GB of DDR5. That should be enough for the larger RT memory footprint.

As people have mentioned, 128MB of infinity cache can also solve the BW problem.

Also where is the 3.5ghz for RDNA4 from? That sounds way too high. At best I expect 3ghz in high end GPUs.

JahIthBer · May 7, 2023

bitcloudrzr said:
Would GDDR6X make more sense?

I would be surprised if it wasn't GDDR6X.

anexanhume · May 7, 2023

GameAddict411 said:
that's not how chiplets work today at least for AMD. They can only have cache on islands for GPUs because the connections to wire up compute units together far out weighs the benefit of the chiplet design. RDNA3 use chiplets just for cache.

For stock RDNA3, sure. These designs have consistently borrowed from future architectures, and having enough CUs on a single chiplet should preserve legacy mode.

DukeBlueBall · May 7, 2023

JahIthBer said:
I would be surprised if it wasn't GDDR6X.

If they add infinity cache, then it won't be necessary.

In addition, Samsung has 20GB/s GDDR6 and 22GB/s gddr6w on the way. That's 640GB/s and 708GB/s. Plenty to feed a ~28TF rdna3 GPU.

bitcloudrzr · May 7, 2023

DukeBlueBall said:
As people have mentioned, 128MB of infinity cache can also solve the BW problem.

JahIthBer said:
I would be surprised if it wasn't GDDR6X.

16gb of GDDR6X (or faster GDDR6) and 128mb of Infinity Cache seems like the logical way to go? The XB1X did go up to 12gb of RAM, but I am not sure how feasible it would be for 24gb here.

Blanquito · May 7, 2023

I'm just glad that there's a specs speculation thread again. It gets really boring when there isn't one.

Pachinko · May 7, 2023

Ambitious and researched specs. I think the reality will be simpler though.

A butterfly design like the ps4 pro seems likely since it already has engineering legacy.

Adding 4TB of DDR4 ram to free up some more resources combined with a small speed increase on the 16GB pool also sound reasonable enough.

I don't think we'll get a new /current CPU , it'll be the same chip perhaps with a higher ceiling up to 25% faster than the current version. So perhaps 4-4.3GHZ. Changing it beyond that might result in too many potential backwards compatibility issues.

The GPU will be the big upgrade. 18-20TF of FP32 , will it have fancy rdna3 dual shader calculations ? Maybe ! Will that tech actually be used for a 100% boost in games ? I doubt it.

All I'd expect in actual games is 2-3 times RT performance (which I think will actually mean 2-3 RT effects instead of 1-2 being on and they'll have more resolution/rays). As well , right now a number of games rely on FSR2 performance to upscale to 1440 or 4K , this new GPU should have no trouble defaulting to FSR2 quality or even skipping that sort of reconstruction. So basically it'll be on par with a 6800xt. Compared to the roughly 5700xt performance we currently have.

As far as the price goes , it'll launch for 499.99 and be a break even product. The disc drive will not be included as it'll be a peripheral starting this year.

bitcloudrzr · May 7, 2023

Pachinko said:
All I'd expect in actual games is 2-3 times RT performance (which I think will actually mean 2-3 RT effects instead of 1-2 being on and they'll have more resolution/rays). As well , right now a number of games rely on FSR2 performance to upscale to 1440 or 4K , this new GPU should have no trouble defaulting to FSR2 quality or even skipping that sort of reconstruction. So basically it'll be on par with a 6800xt. Compared to the roughly 5700xt performance we currently have.

I would hope a hardware solution for ai upscaling as well, and performance higher than the 6800XT through architecture improvements.

RoboPlato · May 7, 2023

Hoping that is has decent bandwidth. That was a clear weakness of the PS4 Pro design

Gitaroo · May 7, 2023

Can all of these speculated specs be put into a 500 box in 2024? I cannot imagine they raise the msrp, if anything they learn from psvr2, high entry point won't sell in this economy. They will probably use the same pricing strategy thing releasing ps5 pro at ps5 launch msrp and have a cheaper ps5 slim like ps4 gen. I would expect a gpu around 7800xt or maybe even slower with FSR3

Lucia · May 7, 2023

The hypothetical PS5 Pro would have small improvements in CPU & rasterization (like 20% at most) with the biggest icrease being the RT performance (a x3 increase).

SteamyPunk · May 7, 2023

I'm ignorant on this stuff, but I'm getting the impression that strictly looking at TF numbers are meaningless without a lot of context. Thanks for all the info, OT and others.

I'd be okay with option 1 though. Like 1.5 times the power in a smaller package for $499? Hopefully it would have double the storage. Too weak?

bitcloudrzr · May 7, 2023

Lucia said:
The hypothetical PS5 Pro would have small improvements in CPU & rasterization (like 20% at most) with the biggest icrease being the RT performance (a x3 increase).

How would doubling the raw GPU power only land at a 20% increase?

Pachinko · May 7, 2023

I made a typo and said 4TB instead of 4GB up there and also failed to mention storage or the likely potential of AMD and Sony doing a custom version of FSR to maintain better frametimes at higher perceived resolutions.

Storage wise , if it's possible to do so I could see the number of chips being doubled so instead of 850 GB it becomes1700 GB. Maybe they even adjust the MB to simply use an off the shelf PCIE4 drive and there's 2 slots so you can still add your own , maybe that means it has 2TB ??? That one's harder to get a read on tbh.

When I say 499.99 USD I mean just that, whatever the current exchange rate is 90 days before launch is what it'll cost based on that starting point. There's a chance the current model gets some kind of price adjustment this year and maybe even 349.99 USD by Christmas 2024 if it doesn't put the console into the red anyway.

Dangerman1337 · May 7, 2023

I think a PS5 Pro will look like this:

CPU: 8 Zen 5 Cores @4.8-5Ghz (should double the CPU performance of the current PS5 Zen 2 CPU which is slightly less performance than a non boosted 3700X I think). Zen 4 V-Cache shows that 4.8-5Ghz range is quite power efficent Vs higher clocked non V-Cache parts so I could see a 4.8Ghz Zen 5 offering doubling CPU performance over the PS5.

GPU: RDNA 4/RDNA 3.5 with 72 CUs with a 256-bit memory bus. Not sure which design they'll go because I wonder if RDNA 3.5 will basically "fix" RDNA 3's problems with better RT performance. Or will AMD offer RDNA 4 for the PS5 Pro to really push performance.

Memory: 16GB of GDDR7 w/ 4GB of LPDDR5. GDDR7 is based on DDR5 which is getting very cheap for DIY right, by Summer of 2024 it should be very affordable for a PS5 Pro.

All on a N4X process which should be readily avaliable since Apple, Nvidia, AMD and others will be consuming loads of N3 wafers at TSMC. Probably 360-400mm2 APU (unless someone can correct me) which is good enough size for a pro console. Priced at @599 with a disc drive which will 'prep' people for a 499 + 99 disc drive PS6 launch in 2028/2029.

JahIthBer said:
GDDR7 would be too expensive and new. It would be cheaper at that point to chuck in infinity cache or possibly implement more RDNA4 architectural improvements (if it doesn't break compatibility)
4070 Ti has almost half the bandwidth compared to the 12GB 3080 despite the 4070 Ti comfortably beating the 3080.

DDR5 which GDDR7 will be based on is crashing through the floor in terms of pricing (In the UK 32GB 7200 MT/s DDR5 is low as £160, late 2021 was way more pricey) right now in the last 6 months. Also more IC = larger die so on a 4nm or even 3nm you're spending more on pricey silicon.

Gitaroo said:
Can all of these speculated specs be put into a 500 box in 2024? I cannot imagine they raise the msrp, if anything they learn from psvr2, high entry point won't sell in this economy. They will probably use the same pricing strategy thing releasing ps5 pro at ps5 launch msrp and have a cheaper ps5 slim like ps4 gen. I would expect a gpu around 7800xt or maybe even slower with FSR3

I think 599 will be the price point of the PS5 Pro. So they can train consumers to expect a 2028/2029 PS6 to be the same price point with a disc drive.

nizerifin · May 7, 2023

From a business and product perspective, I think the mid-gen refresh is meant to be a marginal bump, and thus I think we determine what a marginal bump (to performance metrics) would be and work backwards from there to the hardware.

Sony has to successfully market this thing and be able to market the PS6 a mere four years later. It can't be too much of a jump over base PS5.

What I don't understand is the marginal impact of a teraflop on the in-game visual fidelity. Is a 25%-50% TF increase sufficient to impress hardcore gamers?

Spork4000 · May 7, 2023

Lucia said:
The hypothetical PS5 Pro would have small improvements in CPU & rasterization (like 20% at most) with the biggest icrease being the RT performance (a x3 increase).

Ain't no way you'll get a 3x increase in rat and only a 20% increase in raster. Where are you getting this from?

bitcloudrzr · May 7, 2023

Dangerman1337 said:
I think 599 will be the price point of the PS5 Pro. So they can train consumers to expect a 2028/2029 PS6 to be the same price point with a disc drive.

They would rather sell you a $499 Digital Edition then bundle it for $599.

nizerifin said:
What I don't understand is the marginal impact of a teraflop on the in-game visual fidelity. Is a 25%-50% TF increase sufficient to impress hardcore gamers?

We are looking at a 2x tf increase at min.

Spoit · May 7, 2023

I'm sceptical about all you people saying that it's going to have huge RT improvements. Almost all of the innocents in RDNA 3 were just from it increasing the raster baseline. AMD doesn't have the kind of R&D to just "put in a RT chip", at least with their current tech

Spork4000 · May 7, 2023

nizerifin said:
From a business and product perspective, I think the mid-gen refresh is meant to be a marginal bump, and thus I think we determine what a marginal bump (to performance metrics) would be and work backwards from there to the hardware.

Sony has to successfully market this thing and be able to market the PS6 a mere four years later. It can't be too much of a jump over base PS5.

What I don't understand is the marginal impact of a teraflop on the in-game visual fidelity. Is a 25%-50% TF increase sufficient to impress hardcore gamers?

I think we should just use the PS4 Pro as a go by. If we do just over a doubling in GPU performance, more memory for games and an overclocked CPU is the most likely outcome.

Gitaroo · May 7, 2023

Dangerman1337 said:
I think 599 will be the price point of the PS5 Pro. So they can train consumers to expect a 2028/2029 PS6 to be the same price point with a disc drive.

bitcloudrzr said:
They would rather sell you a $499 Digital Edition then bundle it for $599.

We are looking at a 2x tf increase at min.

Yeah, a $500 without optical drive sound more logical with a $80-100 drive attachment. Their production line would make more sense to produce a product for three of their own devices, (ps5 digital, ps5 slim and ps5 pro). I just hope that the drive is compatible with pc let me play uhd disc on pc, I would get the drive myself even if I don't own any digital only ps5.

bitcloudrzr · May 7, 2023

Gitaroo said:
Yeah, a $500 without optical drive sound more logical with a $80-100 drive attachment. Their production line would make more sense to produce a product for three of their own devices, (ps5 digital, ps5 slim and ps5 pro). I just hope that the drive is compatible with pc let me play uhd disc on pc, I would get the drive myself even if I don't own any digital only ps5.

They would also be right to suspect that most people would not bother with the drive, so that $100 in lost revenue/profit turns much more lucrative even in the short term.

Spork4000 · May 7, 2023

Gitaroo said:
Yeah, a $500 without optical drive sound more logical with a $80-100 drive attachment. Their production line would make more sense to produce a product for three of their own devices, (ps5 digital, ps5 slim and ps5 pro). I just hope that the drive is compatible with pc let me play uhd disc on pc, I would get the drive myself even if I don't own any digital only ps5.

If a slim comes out they'll discontinue the digital. What would the point be in keeping that around?

Expect two skus manufactured at once. PS5 Pro and PS5 digital, and if the slim comes out it'll replace the digital.

DukeBlueBall · May 7, 2023

Dangerman1337 said:
I think a PS5 Pro will look like this:

CPU: 8 Zen 5 Cores @4.8-5Ghz (should double the CPU performance of the current PS5 Zen 2 CPU which is slightly less performance than a non boosted 3700X I think). Zen 4 V-Cache shows that 4.8-5Ghz range is quite power efficent Vs higher clocked non V-Cache parts so I could see a 4.8Ghz Zen 5 offering doubling CPU performance over the PS5.

GPU: RDNA 4/RDNA 3.5 with 72 CUs with a 256-bit memory bus. Not sure which design they'll go because I wonder if RDNA 3.5 will basically "fix" RDNA 3's problems with better RT performance. Or will AMD offer RDNA 4 for the PS5 Pro to really push performance.

Memory: 16GB of GDDR7 w/ 4GB of LPDDR5. GDDR7 is based on DDR5 which is getting very cheap for DIY right, by Summer of 2024 it should be very affordable for a PS5 Pro.

All on a N4X process which should be readily avaliable since Apple, Nvidia, AMD and others will be consuming loads of N3 wafers at TSMC. Probably 360-400mm2 APU (unless someone can correct me) which is good enough size for a pro console. Priced at @599 with a disc drive which will 'prep' people for a 499 + 99 disc drive PS6 launch in 2028/2029.

DDR5 which GDDR7 will be based on is crashing through the floor in terms of pricing (In the UK 32GB 7200 MT/s DDR5 is low as £160, late 2021 was way more pricey) right now in the last 6 months. Also more IC = larger die so on a 4nm or even 3nm you're spending more on pricey silicon.

I think 599 will be the price point of the PS5 Pro. So they can train consumers to expect a 2028/2029 PS6 to be the same price point with a disc drive.

APU is too large unless you added 256mb of infinity cache. The one in your post should be around 300mm2 on 4nm.

Deleted member 14089 · May 7, 2023

Spoit said:
I'm sceptical about all you people saying that it's going to have huge RT improvements. Almost all of the innocents in RDNA 3 were just from it increasing the raster baseline. AMD doesn't have the kind of R&D to just "put in a RT chip", at least with their current tech

Yeah I would agree, my only basis would be the patent application by Sony [mark cerny] regarding a RT acceleration structure, given that Sony has worked with AMD together to engineer their Tempest engine and provided that they do indeed incorporate and develop features that may appear in future architectures.
I hope they'll have a similar approach for this supposed pro console if it's going to happen. I do think that AMD has the R&D to put in a RT chip, RDNA3 now has something akin to Tensor cores: AI Accelerators (WMMA) afaik.

Garulon · May 7, 2023

Lausebub said:
The question should be, what does Sony want to achieve with the pro version?

Maybe they should just sell spray bottles of "new console smell" and it'll achieve the same effect for the target market. Otherwise unless people start buying 8K tvs en masse this has no customers lmao

bitcloudrzr · May 7, 2023

Garulon said:
Maybe they should just sell spray bottles of "new console smell" and it'll achieve the same effect for the target market. Otherwise unless people start buying 8K tvs en masse this has no customers lmao

Higher settings and frame rate doubling for enthusiasts has no customer base?

Garulon · May 7, 2023

bitcloudrzr said:
Higher settings and frame rate doubling for enthusiasts has no customer base?

Not one worth the hundreds of millions to develop a new console for no. You really think they're going to do a PS5 Pro (which means games have to run on both consoles) and just abandon their hard fought PS5 customer base to the shitty version after promising 4K/60 to them as well?

Deducing PS5 Pro GPU and memory via math.

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