Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)

[corasaur]

I'm off this Blue No Matter Who train. If beating Trump is your only selling point then that tells me 4 years of nothing while a Trump with +200 intelligence comes along and restarts this whole bullshit again.
Im voting down ballot and doing a write-in at this point

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trump didn't happen because of moderate economic policy. he happened because a ton of americans think that apartheid sounds swell. There is no economic policy that could prevent trump-but-less-braindead from being a major threat in future presidential elections, even if Bernie had won the nomination. protest-voting isn't a progressive thing to do- it just increases the chance that the shittier person gets to do harm and decreases the chance that people who want to make improvements get to do anything at all.

Plus, the mainstream democratic platform has moved far enough left that it still would represent real improved lives for tens of millions. as much as I wish I could vote for a GE candidate who bluntly says "the modern business world is broken and dumb, and the Republican party has no redeeming value," i'm not sitting out the GE just because Biden's rhetoric frequently turns me off.

 

[MagicDoogies]

I'd prefer someone under 70 (who isn't also Pete).

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I would too, but unless they come forward I can't exactly rep for someone that is a non factor. (Stacey Abrams I guess? I don't know much about her record to put my support behind her though.)

 

[MagicDoogies]

trump didn't happen because of moderate economic policy. he happened because a ton of americans think that apartheid sounds swell. There is no economic policy that could prevent trump-but-less-braindead from being a major threat in future presidential elections, even if Bernie had won the nomination. protest-voting isn't a progressive thing to do- it just increases the chance that the shittier person gets to do harm and decreases the chance that people who want to make improvements get to do anything at all.

Plus, the mainstream democratic platform has moved far enough left that it still would represent real improved lives for tens of millions. as much as I wish I could vote for a GE candidate who bluntly says "the modern business world is broken and dumb, and the Republican party has no redeeming value," i'm not sitting out the GE just because Biden's rhetoric frequently turns me off.

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All I said was that I wasn't voting for JOE BIDEN. I never said I wasn't voting. I'd rather just do a write in and vote down ticket. But if the last few users who got dogpiled in here for saying this is any indication, this is tantamount to admitting that I'm a MAGA in liberal clothing. Because the strong and coalition building Joe Biden is apparantly really threatened by fringe group Bernie Busters in the GE.

 

[MagicDoogies]

Congratulations, this mentality is why Bernie has lost two primaries in a row.

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Tell me why I should get excited for a voting block that constantly steers the country in a direction that directly harms or kneecaps all the other demographics for their short term comforts and financial affluence?

 

[Kirblar]

trump didn't happen because of moderate economic policy. he happened because a ton of americans think that apartheid sounds swell. There is no economic policy that could prevent trump-but-less-braindead from being a major threat in future presidential elections, even if Bernie had won the nomination. protest-voting isn't a progressive thing to do- it just increases the chance that the shittier person gets to do harm and decreases the chance that people who want to make improvements get to do anything at all.

Plus, the mainstream democratic platform has moved far enough left that it still would represent real improved lives for tens of millions. as much as I wish I could vote for a GE candidate who bluntly says "the modern business world is broken and dumb, and the Republican party has no redeeming value," i'm not sitting out the GE just because Biden's rhetoric frequently turns me off.

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Related:



It literally all goes back to slavery and civil rights in terms of how the parties are structured.

Are you implying that unless I was directly harmed by these people under their constituency that I shouldn't CARE about their previous track records going in to an election where assuming they win--the entire country would be under their governance?

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No, I'm saying if you're in a hard blue or red state like California or Idaho, the proclamations of "haven't earned my vote" are being made with the knowledge that your vote is ultimately irrelevant, knowledge that's important for others in order to place those statements in their appropriate context.

 

[Addie]

So far this is ONLY an assumption I've seen moderates position on this forum based on their own personal distaste for Bernie Sanders.
I highly doubt that's the case since a lot of people on the Republican side have stated that they like the guy and would vote for him if he ran in the GE.

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Where are these magic Republicans that will break ranks with Donald Trump and vote for Bernie? "A lot of people ... have stated they like the guy and would vote for him" is one shade removed from "many people are saying."

I don't give a flying fuck what these people want, and telling me to give a shit about a populace that's 3 years out from a funeral concession is a dog shit way to convince any stay-homer in the GE under 40 to go out and vote for Joe.

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Not building coalitions loses primaries, which is something Bernie's quite familiar with now.

Both Bernie and Joe Biden literally have the same chances. I see the polling statistics. Stop pushing this narrative. It's full of shit.

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Bernie has a 0% chance, because he's not going to be the nominee. Head-to-head matchups don't matter anymore.

So I'm going to ask you this question BidenERA-- If Donald Trump WAS NOT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES what reason do you have for someone like me to vote for Biden? I'm informed enough that empty buzzwords like 'he gets things done' doesn't work on me because a lot of the things 'he got done' directly kneecapped me such as passing the bill that made it IMPOSSIBLE for me to bankrupt on my 100k+ student loans.

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I'm not going to ask. My position is that, given limited resources, it makes more sense to focus on turning out voting among reliable voting blocs and solidifying coalitions among them. Young people aren't reliable. The subset of vocal online leftists within that set of young voters -- if I were Biden's campaign, I would extend an olive branch, but I wouldn't expect much. Honestly, I'd adopt as many of Elizabeth Warren's policies as feasibly possible. Besides, I think there's a strong chance that, even with concerted outreach, they might not show up in November anyway.

If young leftist voters were actually a significant voting bloc, Bernie wouldn't have gotten blown out.

 

[Kirblar]

Where are these magic Republicans that will break ranks with Donald Trump and vote for Bernie? "A lot of people ... have stated they like the guy and would vote for him" is one shade removed from "many people are saying."

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Not voting for Bernie in the Dem primary this time around because he was their second choice behind Trump.

 

[Nox]

Somebody should ask her about the Arpaio donation. Other than that, eh. I see she's also maxed out donations to Ro Khanna in '18 and '19.

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She donated to people across the spectrum. I don't see how that's a dunk on Warren , especially when she also donated to Ro

 

[Blue Skies]

So far this is ONLY an assumption I've seen moderates position on this forum based on their own personal distaste for Bernie Sanders.
I highly doubt that's the case since a lot of people on the Republican side have stated that they like the guy and would vote for him if he ran in the GE.

lol, yea im sure trump republicans really want a bernie presidency.


And this AU of Trumpism would be obliterated. Donald Trump got elected because people voted for a 'change' candidate that proceeded to do no change whatsoever when he got the chance. Instead he was yet another slight center right moderate that would sign off on stupid wars, compromise otherwise good bills until they do so little they are pointless and easily help out those in need in order to ''''reach across the aisle'''' to politicians who live and breathe institutional racism.

Trump got elected because sexists didn't want Clinton, and racists wanted trump.

I don't give a flying fuck what these people want, and telling me to give a shit about a populace that's 3 years out from a funeral concession is a dog shit way to convince any stay-homer in the GE under 40 to go out and vote for Joe. Seeing as how single user on internet forums pose enough of a threat to Bidens chances of winning in the general to get dogpiled.

Democracy, look that up

Don't patronize me.

I should more since you don't know what democracy is

Both Bernie and Joe Biden literally have the same chances. I see the polling statistics. Stop pushing this narrative. It's full of shit.

OK maybe they did. but now democrats have OVERWHELMINGLY voted for biden in actual polls. so, it doesn't matter anymore.

Bidens presidency is 'nothing' because his platform is the same fucking garbage Americans have dealt with for over a decade which lead to Trump to begin with.
As Andrew Yang said before the first Super Tuesday "Trump isn't the disease he's the SYMPTOM" as neo liberal capitalism that only favors those who line the pockets of Silicon Valley and Wall Street while leaving everyone else one-two disasters away from homelessness people across the world are realizing that the promises for a quality of life they were promised from childhood to adult hood is either non-existent or of much poorer quality than their parents.

The last decade is four years of trump and six of Obama. ill give you those first 6 years, tho biden is more progressive than those 6 years, but gtfo thinking that biden would be anything like the last 4 years of trump.


It's not going to stop and you aren't going to shut me up about it. The only positive thing Trump did was truly show how depraved, weak, spineless, greedy, and directionless the entirety of Congress actually is. If our democracy was even remotely healthy Donald Trump and his cohorts would never of been able to accomplish the vast majority of the crap they did. He showed us that all the 'decorum' they love to shove down our throats is conditional and all a farce if it means they can line their pockets and bolster their stocks.

Again, you don't understand politics. please tell me what the party that holds half of one third of the federal government could've done better.

When people say 'Bernie doesn't get things done' what they conveniently like to omit is that the reason why he 'doesn't do anything' in the Senate is because a lot of the bills both Democrats and Republicans pass are shit, justify overseas suffering for profit or punishment, or will inevitably whittle away, take away, or deny vulnerable people human rights because it's CONVENIENT for them. NOT because it was the right thing to do.
Joe Bidens own track record shows this, but he is far from the only moderate Democrat to have such a stellar record of awesome bills and '''across the aisle'''' negotiation skills.

I don't know what this reply even is
So I'm going to ask you this question BidenERA-- If Donald Trump WAS NOT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES what reason do you have for someone like me to vote for Biden? I'm informed enough that empty buzzwords like 'he gets things done' doesn't work on me because a lot of the things 'he got done' directly kneecapped me such as passing the bill that made it IMPOSSIBLE for me to bankrupt on my 100k+ student loans.

if you don't think the incumbent challenger is relevant to who we pick as a party, then again, please do more research into American politics.

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[El Bombastico]

Tell me why I should get excited for a voting block that constantly steers the country in a direction that directly harms or kneecaps all the other demographics for their short term comforts and financial affluence?

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Because THEY ACTUALLY VOTE. If your golden candidate is so inept that they cannot get the demographic that most consistently votes to actually vote for them, guess what, he/she is NOT getting the nom, let alone winning the GE. The most terrifying moment for the GoP in 2008 was when they saw the scores of middle aged and older people cheering for Obama during his speeches. All those high school and college kids that wore his t-shirts and talked about him on YouTube? Only 18% of people who voted were 18-29.

You NEED to court the older voting blocks to win. Trying to bypass them and go only for the young people is going to fail every single time, barring something momentously effecting them, like another draft being instituted, and maybe not even then...

 

[Goat Mimicry]

So far this is ONLY an assumption I've seen moderates position on this forum based on their own personal distaste for Bernie Sanders.
I highly doubt that's the case since a lot of people on the Republican side have stated that they like the guy and would vote for him if he ran in the GE.

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There's absolutely no excuse for this kind of naive thinking. Republicans can't even be taken on their word when it comes to giving a shit about gun violence, but they would really vote for a Democratic Socialist whose policies are the exact opposite of what they want? No. Don't be a sucker.

 

[Equippedwithtowel]

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It literally all goes back to slavery and civil rights in terms of how the parties are structured.

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Have you read the article? Because using abstracts as arguments is not very persuasive

 

[samoyed]

barring something momentously effecting them, like another draft being instituted, and maybe not even then...

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How about a global pandemic that's gotten both sides talking seriously about UBI checks?

 

[Ryuelli]

Tell me why I should get excited for a voting block that constantly steers the country in a direction that directly harms or kneecaps all the other demographics for their short term comforts and financial affluence?

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You don't have to get excited. Sometimes voting isn't exciting, and that's okay.

 

[El Bombastico]

How about a global pandemic that's gotten both sides talking seriously about UBI checks?

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Given the numbers I saw for last Tuesday's primary...nope.

And besides, when we have shithead's like this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/19/coronavirus-spring-break-party/



I don't think the 18-29 demographic is too worried about COVID-19

 

[samoyed]

Given the numbers I saw for last Tuesday's primary...nope.

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Last tuesday was like 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about.

 

[Barzul]

I'm not going to ask. My position is that, given limited resources, it makes more sense to focus on turning out voting among reliable voting blocs and solidifying coalitions among them. Young people aren't reliable. The subset of vocal online leftists within that set of young voters -- if I were Biden's campaign, I would extend an olive branch, but I wouldn't expect much. Honestly, I'd adopt as many of Elizabeth Warren's policies as feasibly possible. Besides, I think there's a strong chance that, even with concerted outreach, they might not show up in November anyway.

If young leftist voters were actually a significant voting bloc, Bernie wouldn't have gotten blown out.

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This. Other than sounding conciliatory what's the point? Joe Biden and his policy plank are not Bernie Sanders, and by the tone of some in this thread, nothing short of him being Bernie Sanders will be enough to get their votes. If that's what it takes might as well maximize turnout in people who understand the stakes and that will reliably vote for even the tiniest bit of progress.

Politics is being treated like sports where because my team loses I can say fuck it to the entire process. Fine do you. The problem is that sports is fake, politics has real consequences for individuals and groups.

 

[Equippedwithtowel]

Given the numbers I saw for last Tuesday's primary...nope.

And besides, when we have shithead's like this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/19/coronavirus-spring-break-party/



I don't think the 18-29 demographic is too worried about COVID-19

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evidence is not the plural of anecdote

 

[alexiswrite]

Class based progressive policy isn't interesting or persuasive to a lot of people that it would help. To be honest, I rarely want my progressive politicians to be in a situation where they're defending or pushing a specific progressive policy to the public. I like those arguments, a whole lot of people do not.

 

[JVID]

Good luck taking away M4A from people after giving it to them for 4-8 years when they couldn't even get rid of the ACA despite it being pretty unpopular with the country. Good luck giving student debt back after 4-8 years of people having economic freedom to participate in the economy. Good luck making weed illegal after 4-8 years of having it legalized and helping people who have been wrongly imprisoned for years over it. These are things that would drastically change the American outlook on these issues and it isnt going to be as easy to run on campaigns advocating for taking them away than it would be for moderate changes to the system that still ultimately remain the same.

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I mean those weren't going to happen regardless without a decent Senate majority and fillibuster removal. so..

 

[MagicDoogies]

trump didn't happen because of moderate economic policy. he happened because a ton of americans think that apartheid sounds swell.

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If by 'A ton of Americans' you mean slightly less than half of the 35% of eligible voters who participated in the 2016 than yeah Americans DON'T think Apartheid is all that swell, but they couldn't be assed to go out to vote because it was a race between an orange clown and a neoliberal international war criminal. Trump just said the quiet parts very VERY loudly.

There is no economic policy that could prevent trump-but-less-braindead from being a major threat in future presidential elections, even if Bernie had won the nomination. protest-voting isn't a progressive thing to do- it just increases the chance that the shittier person gets to do harm and decreases the chance that people who want to make improvements get to do anything at all.

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No policy ever is going to prevent garbage people from running in any electoral system where you can buy your way into the process and appearing on LIVE television debates. However in Donald Trumps case he ran on MAGA. That term is racist as fuck but also holds the promise of making their lives better again. No more medical bills that cost upwards of 32k with 1800 deductibles, better, childcare, better job treatments, REVITALIZING jobs etc.
Of course informed people knew it was full of shit because it's DONALD TRUMP but to them? It's clear that quality of life keeps going down and for many people they have either fallen through the cracks or staring down that chasm.

Trump and the Republican party just directed that anger towards being even more racist, authoritarian, and hyper cult Christianity instead of multi billionaires like the Waltons or Elon Musk.

Plus, the mainstream democratic platform has moved far enough left that it still would represent real improved lives for tens of millions. as much as I wish I could vote for a GE candidate who bluntly says "the modern business world is broken and dumb, and the Republican party has no redeeming value," i'm not sitting out the GE just because Biden's rhetoric frequently turns me off.

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What does it far enough left even mean? Anyone can put together a Bernie Sanders copy/paste campaign goals .pdf during elections and completely change their tune the moment they get elected. A campaign where your biggest donors are fucking billionaires is not a campaign that gives a shit about you in so much as you help them 'win elections.' It's about their fucking voting record and Joe Bidens sucks hot shit.

'Ah but Trump is caging kids'
Yeah? And Joe Biden was involved in making those shitty fucking facilities in the first place.

A candidate that 'frequently turns me off' is a candidate I have no interest in co-signing my vote for. I'll keep voting down ballot and local after the GE, but as you all told me for the past X months/years-- You want my vote? You earn it. Didn't get it? It goes to someone else. I don't give a fuck if they win or lose. It's not a sports game.

 

[Poodlestrike]

i see why you would want that because it follows like general reciprocal social morality but in the world of electoral politics the person who is needing is the one who has to, using the ppo lingo, "eat shit"

otherwise the only move is to find a more fertile constituency

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Heh, I get that. That's true of a lot of group dynamics, frankly, and if we were talking about campaign members, i'd completely agree. Hell, ditch the equivocation, I do agree. So do people like Clyburn, advising Biden to adopt Bernie's policy positions and reach out to his people.

Within the context of a forum, however (which is where this conversation started), things are obviously a little different.

Last tuesday was like 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about.

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Oooooh that's a an OT subtitle if ever I've seen one.

 

[Steel]

How about a global pandemic that's gotten both sides talking seriously about UBI checks?

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This isn't even the first time that republicans will have sent out checks.

 

[samoyed]

This isn't even the first time that republicans will have sent out checks.

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Are we talking about the corporate welfare checks or some other checks I forgot about?

 

[Kirblar]

Are we talking about the corporate welfare checks or some other checks I forgot about?

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Stimulus checks were literally done in both '01 and '08 in response to recessions. They are not UBI.

 

[Steel]

Are we talking about the corporate welfare checks or some other checks I forgot about?

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This isn't a new idea. The United States has done this twice before. During the Great Recession, the federal government sent about every adult a $300 to $600 check (plus $300 per child). The same thing happened in 2001, when the majority of Americans received a $300 check.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/17/checks-virus/

 

[JVID]

What also confuses me, If Bernie can't even get people to their local polls who was gonna "March on Washington" and demand that Mitch McConnell pass his legislation?

 

[El Bombastico]

Are we talking about the corporate welfare checks or some other checks I forgot about?

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Bush sent out stimulus checks back in 08.

What also confuses me, If Bernie can't even get people to their local polls who was gonna "March on Washington" and demand that Mitch McConnell pass his legislation?

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They won't. But you can bet they'll send a bunch of snarky Tweets. Cause that's just as good, right?

 

[Xanfrabot]

So, as someone who's not from the US, I've always wondered why the third party option is always so easily dismissed. Is it just because the system doesn't allow room for one more candidate, or because polls show that no one would vote for someone who isn't a Republican or Democrat?

Until 2015, here in Spain we had essentially a two-party system pitting the "Socialists" against the Conservatives, but the rise of new parties has led to a more fragmented parliament (which I would say is not necessarily a bad thing), and eventually, to our first left-wing coalition government.

Is such a thing just impossible in the US?

 

[Steel]

So, as someone who's not from the US, I've always wondered why the third party option is always so easily dismissed. Is it just because the system doesn't allow room for one more candidate, or because polls show that no one would vote for someone who isn't a Republican or Democrat?

Until 2015, here in Spain we had essentially a two-party system pitting the "Socialists" against the Conservatives, but the rise of new parties has led to a more fragmented parliament (which I would say is not necessarily a bad thing), and eventually, to our first left-wing coalition government.

Is such a thing just impossible in the US?

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If there's more than one viable candidate it would insure that one side would win every election. Even as it stands, third party voters are enough to swing elections toward pubs narrowly. Not even to mention we have anti-vax wifi causes cancer green party on one end of the third party divide and nutso libertarians on the other.

 

[Poodlestrike]

What also confuses me, If Bernie can't even get people to their local polls who was gonna "March on Washington" and demand that Mitch McConnell pass his legislation?

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This is the obvious gotcha - it has been since 2016 - but it's a question worth asking, honestly. It's sort of the fundamental issue with Bernie's electability, too. His argument (his public argument, not the behind the scenes "let's just hope the moderates keep on splitting the vote" stuff) was always that he'd politically activate groups believed to be persistently politically inactive. When that didn't really happen, he started looking a lot flimsier, which led to even more people moving to vote for the other guy. It's a part of the Super Tuesday collapse, and it's sort of a difficult question for people talking about his potential as a president, too.

So, as someone who's not from the US, I've always wondered why the third party option is always so easily dismissed. Is it just because the system doesn't allow room for one more candidate, or because polls show that no one would vote for someone who isn't a Republican or Democrat?

Until 2015, here in Spain we had essentially a two-party system pitting the "Socialists" against the Conservatives, but the rise of new parties has led to a more fragmented parliament (which I would say is not necessarily a bad thing), and eventually, to our first left-wing coalition government.

Is such a thing just impossible in the US?

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It's a structural thing. The US system ultimately has two groups: the people who win the Presidency, and everybody else. The group that wins the Presidency is determined by who gets the most votes, in an absolute count + 1 sort of sense. These two things mean that ultimately you will only ever have 2 parties, because people can see this reflected in the results just fine by themselves, and most people will ditch potentially strong third parties for people who can win quickly enough. Any successful third parties have historically supplanted one of the main two who then fell into irrelevance.

 

[MagicDoogies]

No, I'm saying if you're in a hard blue or red state like California or Idaho, the proclamations of "haven't earned my vote" are being made with the knowledge that your vote is ultimately irrelevant, knowledge that's important for others in order to place those statements in their appropriate context.

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Up until a few months ago I lived in VA. Which only recently was considered a purple/blue state.

 

[Kirblar]

So, as someone who's not from the US, I've always wondered why the third party option is always so easily dismissed. Is it just because the system doesn't allow room for one more candidate, or because polls show that no one would vote for someone who isn't a Republican or Democrat?

Until 2015, here in Spain we had essentially a two-party system pitting the "Socialists" against the Conservatives, but the rise of new parties has led to a more fragmented parliament (which I would say is not necessarily a bad thing), and eventually, to our first left-wing coalition government.

Is such a thing just impossible in the US?

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Because a First Past the Post system and other structural factors makes 3rd parties nonviable. It's why the UK is also effectively a two party system. The rules determine which types of strategies and coalitions are viable structurally.

 

[Deleted member 64609]

So, as someone who's not from the US, I've always wondered why the third party option is always so easily dismissed. Is it just because the system doesn't allow room for one more candidate, or because polls show that no one would vote for someone who isn't a Republican or Democrat?

Until 2015, here in Spain we had essentially a two-party system pitting the "Socialists" against the Conservatives, but the rise of new parties has led to a more fragmented parliament (which I would say is not necessarily a bad thing), and eventually, to our first left-wing coalition government.

Is such a thing just impossible in the US?

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Third parties in the US are generally invisible until presidential elections season because they neither hold seats in bodies of power nor put in work to gain them. There also rarely put up candidates who can be taken seriously.

 

[MagicDoogies]

You don't have to get excited. Sometimes voting isn't exciting, and that's okay.

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I'm not a child or baby's first voter. I've been holding my nose and voting garbage for the 'good of the democracy' because they had a D next to their name for quite a few years now. I'm already getting tired of it, and I can see why my parents have gotten so embittered about the whole process to the point where they stay home and watch the flames burn.

 

[Equippedwithtowel]

Heh, I get that. That's true of a lot of group dynamics, frankly, and if we were talking about campaign members, i'd completely agree. Hell, ditch the equivocation, I do agree. So do people like Clyburn, advising Biden to adopt Bernie's policy positions and reach out to his people.

Within the context of a forum, however (which is where this conversation started), things are obviously a little different.

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look people can do whatever they want as long as its within the tos
i just think that it might be worth considering the fact that the cathartic path is often not the productive one

which like if that's the vibe then fine, live and let live but it might be worth examining the degree to which you (the general you) are "helping" your chosen cause.
it is not an ideological thing but rather it's product of individual commitment and discipline

How often are young voters told that they're right but unless they change their tone then they won't get anywhere?
the bernie campaign did a lot of self inflicted damage on this basis, not every supporter of his will admit it but that is often the case not because they think he is incapable of error but instead because to do so often results in other concerns of varying legitimacy being immediately treated as inconsequential

 

[Barzul]

So, as someone who's not from the US, I've always wondered why the third party option is always so easily dismissed. Is it just because the system doesn't allow room for one more candidate, or because polls show that no one would vote for someone who isn't a Republican or Democrat?

Until 2015, here in Spain we had essentially a two-party system pitting the "Socialists" against the Conservatives, but the rise of new parties has led to a more fragmented parliament (which I would say is not necessarily a bad thing), and eventually, to our first left-wing coalition government.

Is such a thing just impossible in the US?

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270 electoral college votes needed to win the presidency. The two parties are so entrenched at this point that if a strong third party contender did come and actually won some states (more likely that they would siphon votes from one party and not the other) then it goes to the House of Reps who just need a simple majority to pick the president. So if the Democrats or Republicans control the house, guess who ends up as president? The party in power. This is why voting for a third party is a wasted vote, it means nothing in the end. If we had ranked choice voting or we had a parliamentary system like you see in Europe then sure but our two party system is very entrenched.

 

[Chaos Legion]

So I'm going to ask you this question BidenERA-- If Donald Trump WAS NOT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES what reason do you have for someone like me to vote for Biden? I'm informed enough that empty buzzwords like 'he gets things done' doesn't work on me because a lot of the things 'he got done' directly kneecapped me such as passing the bill that made it IMPOSSIBLE for me to bankrupt on my 100k+ student loans.

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Are you a progressive? Do you want to see progressive policies implemented?

If the answer is yes, why would you need to be convinced to vote for the most progressive presidential platform in recent history? I fundamentally will never understand this. Is he as progressive as Bernie? No. But do we stand a better chance of moving him on issues than generic Republican President? Yes. So why isn't that our focus?

I really don't think there even is a Biden-era. He wasn't the first choice (or second or third) for most of this forum. But he has shown himself to be malleable throughout his political career and if he passes even half of what he has proposed, that would SIGNIFICANTLY improve lives around the country.

I mean it's either pout or work to continue to keep pushing the Democratic Party closer to the progressive ideals you are championing. Only one of those would actually lead to what you want.

 

[alexiswrite]

So, as someone who's not from the US, I've always wondered why the third party option is always so easily dismissed. Is it just because the system doesn't allow room for one more candidate, or because polls show that no one would vote for someone who isn't a Republican or Democrat?

Until 2015, here in Spain we had essentially a two-party system pitting the "Socialists" against the Conservatives, but the rise of new parties has led to a more fragmented parliament (which I would say is not necessarily a bad thing), and eventually, to our first left-wing coalition government.

Is such a thing just impossible in the US?

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Parliamentary political systems are way friendlier to multiple parties. The USA doesn't have this. Therefore any third party political party would basically just act as a spoiler to the other party that closely reflects them, taking votes but not being represented. That's why you just have large parties in the US with multiple factions within them trying to steer the ship.

 

[MotherFan]

I'm not a child or baby's first voter. I've been holding my nose and voting garbage for the 'good of the democracy' because they had a D next to their name for quite a few years now. I'm already getting tired of it, and I can see why my parents have gotten so embittered about the whole process to the point where they stay home and watch the flames burn.

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I would say that looking the current epidemic would give you enough reason to make sure Trump is gone. Bide. Didn't do enough to earn your vote? Ok. That's fine. But failing to step up and push Trump and his current administration of total bafoons will cost lives too. Look at how they have screwed up this crisis. Look how they have screwed up other crisis during the administration. As much as Biden may not change things, whoever he puts in the admin, and the increase in staffing in critical posts will save lives.

The primary is over. Now is the time to step up and prevent more deaths and bankruptcies that would happen directly due to Trump. We have already seen the price of not doing so.

 

[Kirblar]

I'm not a child or baby's first voter. I've been holding my nose and voting garbage for the 'good of the democracy' because they had a D next to their name for quite a few years now. I'm already getting tired of it, and I can see why my parents have gotten so embittered about the whole process to the point where they stay home and watch the flames burn.

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The idea that Virginia is the place where you've had to "hold your nose" after what the new Dem Trifecta has been accomplishing the last few months after having not been in power for multiple decades is....something.

 

[antonz]

Joe Biden will progress America in the right direction. Progress even if smaller then we would like sure as fuck beats the nightmare of Trump 2nd Term. 2-3 more Judges like Kavanaugh. Allowing 2-3 more Trump Appointed Judges on the Supreme Court would do Centuries of Damage to the United States. So anyone claiming they are a dedicated Progressive and are willing to sit out and allow that suggests there is more to a cult of personality following than a dedication to progress.

You don't always get to make Giant leaps for Mankind. Its ok to take small steps if they are in the right direction. Nothing of the Trump presidency suggests sitting out is ok. There is not a single redeeming factor of a trump 2nd term.

 

[JVID]

And then there's also this absurd take I've been seeing that the Supreme Court seat wouldn't matter anyways because Biden would just appoint a "moderate".
A "moderate" would be infinitely better than the literal handsmaid the GOP has lined up to begin with. But it also wouldn't happen. Do people forget that "thirdway centrist" Bill Clinton nominated Ginsburg to the bench?

 

[Midnight Jon]

Because a First Past the Post system and other structural factors makes 3rd parties nonviable. It's why the UK is also effectively a two party system. The rules determine which types of strategies and coalitions are viable structurally.

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Adding onto this: the Constitution literally makes it so the executive branch gets decided by House delegations (not even the actual House majority) if nobody wins an absolute majority, and that gets a lot easier with more than 2 viable candidates.

 

[MHWilliams]

Funny how the crimes of American Imperialism always get ignored.

ThinkingEmoji.gif

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Again, it's weird we bring up Iraq, but forget about Afghanistan.

 

[El Bombastico]

And then there's also this absurd take I've been seeing that the Supreme Court seat wouldn't matter anyways because Biden would just appoint a "moderate".
A "moderate" would be infinitely better than the literal handsmaid the GOP has lined up to begin with. But it also wouldn't happen. Do people forget that "thirdway centrist" Bill Clinton nominated Ginsburg to the bench?

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DONALD TRUMP PUT AN ALLEGED RAPIST ON THE SUPREME COURT.

This cannot be emphasized enough, and every time Bernie people brush the SC off I question just how much they understand about how our fucking government works.

 

[MagicDoogies]

The idea that Virginia is the place where you've had to "hold your nose" after what the new Dem Trifecta has been accomplishing the last few months after having not been in power for multiple decades is....something.

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Y'all really do see red when someone says they ain't voting for Joe. It's funny. I've said multiple fucking times now that I won't vote for Joe but I will vote down ballet. Which... and stay with me here, still requires me to vote IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.

Now unless I missed something where all of those people were also running for President of the United States you may have a point. Than nothing I said was remotely hypocritical or a case of cognitive dissonance.

I don't like Joe Biden. I don't like his policies, and his track records show that if it's not convenient for him he will either take half measures or vote against peoples rights if it means he keeps a seat. That's that on that.

 

[MagicDoogies]

The primary is over. Now is the time to step up and prevent more deaths and bankruptcies that would happen directly due to Trump. We have already seen the price of not doing so.

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No it's not.
Don't tell me what to do or who to vote for. See you in the general election.

 

[Deleted member 4614]

Y'all really do see red when someone says they ain't voting for Joe. It's funny. I've said multiple fucking times now that I won't vote for Joe but I will vote down ballet. Which... and stay with me here, still requires me to vote IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.

Now unless I missed something where all of those people were also running for President of the United States you may have a point. Than nothing I said was remotely hypocritical or a case of cognitive dissonance.

I don't like Joe Biden. I don't like his policies, and his track records show that if it's not convenient for him he will either take half measures or vote against peoples rights if it means he keeps a seat. That's that on that.

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Mostly seeing kids in concentration camps, but go off

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

While typically I wish for more than just supreme court picks from our president, not much else you can go on now since who knows what the state of things will be this fall. Biden wouldn't even be able to step in and help the country until January, but he needs to start being on the news channels talking about this shit.